COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[Monkey Dust]

39 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

https://tennesseestar.com/2020/03/22/canadian-doctor-uses-detroit-physicians-concept-to-rig-one-ventilator-to-treat-up-to-nine-people/

 

That is pretty genius, and something health services around the world will hopefully pick up.

[Master Disaster]

20 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

I personally know all that, but don't have the time rn, and I'm on my phone. I was just trying to stir the discussion towards something helpful for people that might need alternatives in case of local unavailability, or exorbitant prices!

Good luck with that. At work I run a robot thats trims and cuts fibreglass all day long and the dust given off is SUPER fine. Its mandatory for everyone in the maching cell to wear a dust mask at all times, we also have to wear paper or plastic overalls that get disposed at the end of each day.

 

2 weeks ago we were told that they're relaxing the dust mask restriction entirely (we simply cannot get them from anywhere) and now we have to make one suit last a week.

 

Being honest I don't see that as a bad thing either, the doctors & nurses need them much more than I do.

 

Edit - To add to this as of Friday they closed the paint and preping cells entirely because they need the more efficient masks by law and we don't have any to give them.

[WkdPaul]

@Master Disaster

 

Ouch, good luck with that, fiberglass irritations can be a pain!!!

 

But yeah, healthcare workers need protection much more than we do.

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, wkdpaul said:

@Master Disaster

 

Ouch, good luck with that, fiberglass irritations can be a pain!!!

 

But yeah, healthcare workers need protection much more than we do.

You're telling me, it feels like tiny shards of glass on your skin and it persists even after you shower.

[Uttamattamakin]

44 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Talking about masks, anyone has detailed information on N95, N100 and HEPA filtered respirators?

 

What's the difference, what's best to use and what can be used as a temporary replacement in case of unavailability?

As for HEPA I recall hearing back in the 90's that it was once used as a filter on US military vehicles expected to survive in an NBC environment. 
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/109135059800300111

(Nuclear Biological and Chemical.  The kind of thing you'd need in your tank or Submarine if theaterwide biotoxic and chemical warfare, or global thermonulcear war broke out.) 

[NumLock21]

Just want to say the logo for Do the FIVE on Google's home page looks a lot like the old Adblock logo.

[Helhound]

Just chiming in a little bit here, as I have lurked the other threads and don't want to say anything against the rules. I live in Agana, Guam. Here, the entire island is on lockdown because some US and Australian military officials got infected. I think the issue on islands is bigger than the mainland like California because it is much more contained, but it can spread faster and mutate in an isolated environment. A good example would be to compare it to the evolutionary state of the Galapagos Islands or Madagascar. For example, Lemurs only live in Madagascar and no where else, at least naturally.

[Uttamattamakin]

9 minutes ago, Helhound said:

Just chiming in a little bit here, as I have lurked the other threads and don't want to say anything against the rules. I live in Agana, Guam. Here, the entire island is on lockdown because some US and Australian military officials got infected. I think the issue on islands is bigger than the mainland like California because it is much more contained, but it can spread faster and mutate in an isolated environment. A good example would be to compare it to the evolutionary state of the Galapagos Islands or Madagascar. For example, Lemurs only live in Madagascar and no where else, at least naturally.

Same thing went for the residential colleges.  Having it in a contained environment ... it is like the virus can  spread around almost like a wave and resonate.  Remember how the infection rate was on that cruise ship the Diamond princess?  

I hope that things work out for you guys there. 

[Helhound]

1 minute ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Same thing went for the residential colleges.  Having it in a contained environment ... it is like the virus can  spread around almost like a wave and resonate.  Remember how the infection rate was on that cruise ship the Diamond princess?  

I hope that things work out for you guys there. 

Thanks. Containment, I do think is a good idea, but also not. I don't think there is a very good way to get past this where everyone wins. Here's hoping that we'll get a vaccine within the next year or so. At least we're still allowed to take boats out to fish. US battleships and cruisers keep us from going into international waters. Though, they've been respectful and nice about it. It's part of the standard containment procedures and the fact that North Korea keeps launching missiles in our direction. It isn't a military quarantine, just the norm at the moment, but that may change.

[Andreas Lilja]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/coronavirus-covid-19-montreal-quebec-march-22-1.5505989

 

Rip the economy. 

[WkdPaul]

Interestingly enough, there were warnings of this, an article from 2007 warns of SARS-CoV viruses in Southern China qualifying the situation as a time bomb ;

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by wkdpaul

[Canoe]

On 3/22/2020 at 1:44 PM, wkdpaul said:

Talking about masks, anyone has detailed information on N95, N100 and HEPA filtered respirators?

What's the difference, what's best to use and what can be used as a temporary replacement in case of unavailability?

Medical personnel will be getting their advice from their respective authorities on what PPE to use from what equipment or materials they have available. They would not, and should not, be getting their advice from linustechtips.com.

 

Medical personnel performing procedures or attending patients have a risk of encountering airborne/aerosols, and as such their Personal Protection Equipment (PPE) will (should) include a respirator when appropriate. They're in short supply when available. If you have any stock of the N95 nose&mouth type, you should considering donating them to your local hospital or clinic. Give them a call to see if they'd like them. Also ambulance/paramedics.

 

Respirators are for airborne risks. For the rest of the world, we don't need respirators.

With one exception, noted below.

 

The Transmission routes for COVID-19 are:

• Direct Transmission
  • contact person to person
• Droplet Transmission
  • droplets expelled by breathing, talking, coughing and sneezing
  • fall to ground within ~one metre,
  • use 1.5, 2 metre or six feet to be sure, hence the various personal distance guidelines/rules in place around the world
  • if you're taller, stay a few feet further away from people so what you expel doesn't land on them
  • if you're shorter, stay a few feet further away from people so what people expel doesn't land on you
• Indirect Transmission
  • Contact the virus from a surface.
  • Like a Frequent Touch Surface: handrails, doorknobs, counter, payment machines, etc..
  • Surfaces can be contaminated from people touching it or droplets falling on it.
  • Also, by aerosol droplets falling on a surface.
• Fecal Transmission
  • Fecal Transmission has not been documented, but is suspected/assumed due to intestinal virus shedding shown to be as much as 20x to 50x that of respiratory shedding.
• Possibly through sweating pores. From a suspected transmission at a marathon in Italy.

 

Missing from the above, is Airborne / Aerosol Transmission.

To date, for all the studies I've seen:

• There have been no documentation of aerosols of SARS-CoV-2 expelled by people doing their normal activities, including coughing and sneezing.
  • Coughing and sneezing is still suspect, as while there has been a lot of research so far, there has not been enough time for comprehensive SARS-CoV-2 research.
  • Hence, use a little more than the one metre droplet fall range, just because.
  • AND, cough into your sleeve/elbow.
• SARS-CoV-2 aerosols have NOT been detected in patient rooms, nor on the surfaces the fine droplets in aerosols would fall onto. (I.e., where coughing/sneezing patients are frequently doing so.)
• SARS-CoV-2 has been found on surfaces in patient rooms that are within droplet range.
• There was one study that managed to mechanically create a SARS-CoV-2 aerosol, which still held viable viruses when they ended the experiment three hours later.
  • This means aerosols of SARS-CoV-2 are plausible, not that they are occurring.
  • There is no evidence that is happening with humans, as in creating aerosols when sneezing or coughing.
  • If they are rarely occurring, they certainly are NOT driving the pandemic, or there would be significantly higher R0 rates.
  • Speculating: this may be contributing to the high infection rate of medical personnel (i.e., intubation), particularly when appropriate PPE is not available.
• That same study published times for which SARS-CoV-2 remained viable on various surfaces. The times they determined are notably shorter than those of other studies, but were promoted by the CDC and on the BBC.
  • Earlier studies determined times out as long as six days.
  • A SARS study documented SARS-CoV-1 staying viable on stainless steel as long as nine days.

In spite of the findings from monitoring patient rooms, due to other viruses going into aerosol by coughing or sneezing, for precautionary reasons (it is still realatively early in COVID-19 knowledge) it is highly recommended to sneeze into tissue and cough into tissue or your elbow. Some reports say they have no evidence to counter the patient room monitoring results, but suspect coughing or sneezing may produce finer droplets that can range beyond the one metre, a semi-aerosol, possibly out to two or even three metres before falling to the ground or shortly dropping out of aerosol.

 

The Airborne / Aerosol exception - Diarrhea

• (Not SARS-CoV-2 specific) Violent diarrhea can produce fine droplet aerosols that can disperse up to 200 metres (656 feet).
• Note the higher viral shedding of SARS-CoV-2 in the intestinal tract.
• In one unpublished study at one hospital in Wuchang China, aerosols with SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus were found near patients' toilets.
• A SARS outbreak in 2014 was "airborne spread was the most likely explanation, and the SARS coronavirus could have spread over 200 meters", and was traced to a SARS patient who had diarrhea.

In a home care setting for someone positive sheltering/recovering at home, it is plausible that a person with diarrhea could be creating SARS-CoV-2 aerosols.

If you are the person designated to provide care to such a person, perhaps you should be using a properly fitted N95 respirator.

Wearing a surgical style mask to prevent you from touching your mouth and nose, and serve as a reminder to not touch your face, is also a good idea. A study in a hospital setting back in the SARS days found that personnel wearing either a surgical mask or a respirator (it didn't matter which, each provided the same benefit), had an 85% reduced infection rate.

 

The CDC recommendation for Suspect/Confirmed at home includes: use a bathroom separate from others in the house where possible. (however they word it. If you're in a home care situation, you should go to the CDC site and get the current guidance...).

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Canoe
fixing wording, adding additional info for completeness

[WkdPaul]

1 minute ago, Canoe said:

They would not, and should not, be getting their advice from linustechtips.com.

*snip*

Not sure why you would think that, my intention with the question was to get a reply with detailed explanation, like the one you just supplied, thanks for that ;

 

2 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

I personally know all that, but don't have the time rn, and I'm on my phone. I was just trying to stir the discussion towards something helpful for people that might need alternatives in case of local unavailability, or exorbitant prices!

 

[Canoe]

 

11 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

I personally know all that, but don't have the time rn, and I'm on my phone. I was just trying to stir the discussion towards something helpful for people that might need alternatives in case of local unavailability, or exorbitant prices!

 

Patience.

That explained why people should not be freaking out and needlessly seeking N95 level protection.

And when they possibly should.

[PhantomJaguarr]

More states join lock down orders.

 

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine on Sunday announced a statewide stay-at-home order effective Monday night until April 6. And Louisiana Gov. John Bel Edwards is expected to announce one on Sunday that will similarly take effect Monday night.New York state’s death toll has reached 114, surpassing Washington state and accounting for a third of all U.S. deaths.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/22/coronavirus-latest-news/

[SpaceGhostC2C]

30 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Interestingly enough, there were warnings of this, an article from 2007 warns of SARS-CoV viruses in Southern China qualifying the situation as a time bomb ;

 

I've heard the same from difference sources; apparently, the recurrence of virus outbreaks within this family as mutations take place is more or less an established fact, rather than a surprise, for people in this field.

One example that comes to mind:

(I can't time-stamp as I don't remember where in the interview he said that, but it was rather early)

[Canoe]

 

3 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

I personally know all that, but don't have the time rn, and I'm on my phone. I was just trying to stir the discussion towards something helpful for people that might need alternatives in case of local unavailability, or exorbitant prices!

CDC Respirator Trusted-Source Information - a FAQ

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/RespSource3healthcare.html#e

 

If you want to geek out on filtration...

Quote

https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2009/10/14/n95/

 

This is perhaps the most misunderstood aspect of filter performance and bears repeating. Filters do NOT act as sieves.

 

Apart from those that need N95 protection, you can wear a mask to:

Stop you from touching your mouth or nose, hopefully reminding you to not touch your eyes. In short, don't touch your face!

Protect your mouth & nose if someone coughs or sneezes in your face.

 

I have a full-face 3M respirator with N95, N99 and N100 filters (both floppy and solid cartridge), for use in the desert when there's a nasty wind storm. I have the gas-mask compatible glasses that allow it to maintain a seal. The soil environment that gets airborne as dust is fine clay or other soil components (SiO2, Al2O3, quartz, micas, calcite, feldspar, vermiculite, illite, and kaolinite), aquatic micro-fauna eggs or dead body parts, bacteria & viruses normally present, including those deposited by migratory birds. Over 65% is sub 3 µm. Apart from heavy winds where my eyes needed full protection, I found wrap around sunglasses and a cotton bandana was very effective. This is not the thin cotton tourist bandana, but a fairly robust cotton weave. Square, fold it in half diagonally. It wraps over the nose, across the face and around to the back of the neck. It hands down over your face and mouth, and onto your chest, providing a contact seal. You can tuck it into your shirt if you wish. Do not stretch it tight. Let it have it's mass & volume to work. No perceived inhaling of the fine particles, even when used all day long. Even with a beard. No discoloration from the fine soil on the face side. After using this, I've not yet used the full-face respirator again in the desert, except for working in a fibreglass insulated attic. And I find it easier and more effective than the standard N95 mount&nose filter for wood-working or construction, but then I have a beard.

 

Here it is, tied at the back of the neck, pulled down, ready to pull up.

 

 

I would not trust this for aerosols, but I would trust this for stopping anything I expel, and to protect me in the event that someone coughed or sneezed in my face. At that point it is infected, and needs to be removed and washed with soap. It's easy to put on, easy to carry spares each in their own plastic bag, and have a plastic bag to carry a soiled one home for washing.

 

There are a number of DIY face masks being posted online. Google for designs that match the materials you have. Consider reading the links above to get an idea of what materials may be best. Remember, you're not trying to match the NIOSH tested N95 - you won't. Read the link above to understand why not. But you can protect yourself from expelled droplets. And from forgetting and touching your mount & nose, and hopefully your eyes and face. You're not in a hospital setting, but...

Quote

A study in a hospital setting back in the SARS days found that personnel wearing either a surgical mask or a respirator (it didn't matter which, each provided the same benefit), had an 85% reduced infection rate.

And whatever you do, don't go to a community centre or a friend's house to work together to DIY masks. Like a rubbing-elbows sitting at tables in crowed room news video I saw. That's way higher risk than not wearing a mask...

 

[Canoe]

48 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I've heard the same from difference sources; apparently, the recurrence of virus outbreaks within this family as mutations take place is more or less an established fact, rather than a surprise, for people in this field.

Given all the genome work done over the years, it's certainly no surprise to any of the researchers.

This image is very early, back in January.

 

Various mutions of SARS-CoV-2 allow them to track origins and spread of various clusters. Like the family in Wuhan where five members across three generations caught it, but three different strains. Highly contagious. Here's tracing early U.S..

 

[NumLock21]

1 hour ago, wkdpaul said:

Interestingly enough, there were warnings of this, an article from 2007 warns of SARS-CoV viruses in Southern China qualifying the situation as a time bomb ;

 

 

Spoiler

 

First SARS came out in 2003

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, wkdpaul said:

Interestingly enough, there were warnings of this, an article from 2007 warns of SARS-CoV viruses in Southern China qualifying the situation as a time bomb ;

 

 

One of my status updates has a link to a 5ish year old video of bill gates talking about how this was going to happen and how it could have been stopped.    

[PhantomJaguarr]

Since I'm still earning money and since there's like never any chicken or meat on the shelves at the end of my shifts, going to get take-out way more than normal to help local family eateries. Hawaiian BBQ tonight.  My brother is going to pick it up for us since he hasn't moved his car in days.

[Andreas Lilja]

https://london.ctvnews.ca/mobile/labatt-to-switch-production-from-beer-to-hand-sanitizer-1.4863529

 

Will taste better too. 

[NumLock21]

 

 

[PhantomJaguarr]

It's happening. My city is NOT playing around. 

 

 – According to the city of San Diego, gatherings of any size are prohibited at beaches and parks, and parking lots at all city-run beaches and parks are now closed. While beaches and parks in San Diego are to remain open, San Diego City officials warn that group recreation is not allowed. They warn of charging misdemeanors; $1000 fines.

 

https://www.kusi.com/san-diego-to-deliver-misdemeanors-possible-1000-fines-for-group-recreational-gatherings/

[Magnus33]

To give people a idea how social isolation is so important to our loved ones and others here are the numbers from a expert.