AMD not supporting Zen3 on older motherboards :(

[Andk1987]

12 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

I haven't check all of them, but the ones I've did check, MSI and Gigabyte bios is 128MB. Asus is 128-256MB.

mega bit and megabyte are two totally different things 8 bits make a byte..... 16x8=128 32x8=256

[Bombastinator]

16 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

I haven't check all of them, but the ones I've did check, MSI and Gigabyte bios is 128MB. Asus is 128-256MB.

The megabit-vs- megabyte thing.  A byte is 8 bits.

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

Notice in the article they are referring to the 16mb bioses.  I think it very very unlikely that it is technically possible to fit the 4xxx microcode into one of those bios chips.  There are some that are 32mb though.   Could it be done for them?  That is another question.  There may be other technical problems as well though.  Data is scarce at this level.

yep the newer msi max motherboards that have support for ryzen 3000 out of the box are 32MB i think but all the older ones are 16. it probably could be done but like i said earlier the confusion for consumers are going to be a big issue. most people dont even know what a bios is and you are asking them to check if the motherboard has a 32MB bios memory chip

[NumLock21]

29 minutes ago, Andk1987 said:

mega bit and megabyte are two totally different things 8 bits make a byte..... 16x8=128 32x8=256

 

25 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The megabit-vs- megabyte thing.  A byte is 8 bits.

From MSI B450-A PRO MAX

 

So board makers are advertising what ISPs are doing. 

SAD

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

So board makers are advertising what ISPs are doing. 

SAD

At least it's not "Up to" and you only get half.

[NumLock21]

33 minutes ago, leadeater said:

At least it's not "Up to" and you only get half.

The consumer still gets "jipped" both ways.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

yep the newer msi max motherboards that have support for ryzen 3000 out of the box are 32MB i think but all the older ones are 16. it probably could be done but like i said earlier the confusion for consumers are going to be a big issue. most people dont even know what a bios is and you are asking them to check if the motherboard has a 32MB bios memory chip

I’m not asking anything of anyone.  I’m saying that if the board doesn’t have a big chip the chances that it is even theoretically possible is very low.  Even if they DO the chances are still possibly low because we don’t know what OTHER issues there might be.  So chances of b450 max boards being able to run a ryzen 4000 desktop chip are pretty low.  If they’re theoretically zero they’re zero in practice.  If theyre theoretically decent they may still be zero in practice.

[tehxf]

7 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

It was all about the binary thinking.

 It’s useful but dangerous because it has holes in it.  Most every time someone says something like “it’s either this way or it’s not” the answer is usually “it’s mostly that way but there’s a little bit of not and that is the part you are about to stand on”

 

it’s a lot like how when ever you see an article where the headline is a question the answer is most often “no.  It was a stupid idea to begin with” not always, but it says to me “have your radar out, the area ahead is strewn with BS and it’s going to be easy to step in.

 

You used binary thinking so I activated my radar and sure enough there was a small hole. 

If you say so. I guess we must believe it. It was a simple statement, which you have made more complicated then needed.

[Bombastinator]

20 minutes ago, tehxf said:

If you say so. I guess we must believe it. It was a simple statement, which you have made more complicated then needed.

You were making the statements that demanded belief.  I was the one refusing to believe them.

 

Heh. Simple. It did sound simple.  It was presented as if it was simple.  It wasn’t ACTUALLY simple though.

 

there are a lot of jokes like that.  Often one liners.  Simple statements with messed up implications.  The one that’s coming to mind for me is “have you stopped beating your wife?”  It’s not exact.   There are probably better ones.  

[TaRaTaTa]

Good news! I have an x570

[tehxf]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Heh. Simple. It did sound simple.  It was presented as if it was simple.  It wasn’t ACTUALLY simple though.

How do you go about day to day life, over analysing every conversation. 

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, tehxf said:

How do you go about day to day life, over analysing every conversation. 

I already went over that.  Sometimes there are lines that are indicative of BS incoming.  You uttered one so I listened more Carefully.  Clearly it wasn’t over analyzing in this case.  I do try and pat attention to my BS detector.  It’s less accurate that those some people have.  It makes me more resistant to marketing though. I  like to think I take “fewer wooden Nickels” as the saying goes.  I probably still get some.  There are people more cautious than me.  Less too, apparently.

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

It's not up to the engineers to make that call and I can assure you if you ask "Is it possible" the answer is yes. But as explained in the Gamers Nexus video, a lot of the same things I pointed out, it's not that simple.

If the engineers know then AMD know.  whether they listen to their engineers or not does not excuse them for dragging their feet with important information.

Quote

Knowing about the problems is only part of this. Dedicating time and resources to 400 series Zen 3 AGESA development over 500 series while they are still working on finalizing and releasing B550 just is not going to happen. The engineers can only make recommendations and indications of requirements and implications from their area. Making the call to support a product is in the realm of product managers not engineers and they need to clear that through multiple different parts of the company, also covered in the video. Some of these discussions could have been delayed, held back or actively not addressed until 500 series product development was finalized.

That is all moot,  the problem is AMD promised support then very vaguely did nothing  to tell consumers about the lack of promised support until it was well too late.

 

Quote

The whole idea that just because the engineers knew about the problem is flawed and ignores so many other factors.

No it isn't, if the R+D or engineers know then the management know.   There was a very intentional decision here to not make any announcements earlier, you can't deny they knew.

Quote

At least they told us now not at the Ryzen 4000 launch, which would be PR suicide. No matter when or how the dropping of 400 series was always going to generate complaints, not unwarranted either but that doesn't mean it wasn't justified and was not done in a timely manor to what was actually possible. I know within AMD this would have been known for a while but I'm very skeptical it was finalized any sooner than months ago, not last year and unlikely Jan/Feb (maybe Feb, maybe).

So you are arguing it's o.k for them to delay when they told customers all previous promises are off because they had to do it at sometime?

 

They could have finalized the end of support much sooner than they did.  It appears you are saying that because it had to happen that when it happened is irrelevant.  The whole problem here in this thread is not an argument about why it happened but solely about when and their timing.

 

I see no logical reason why they couldn't have made that decision last year when they clearly had enough information to do so.

 

 

[tehxf]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

I already went over that.  Sometimes there are lines that are indicative of BS incoming.  You uttered one so I listened more Carefully.  Clearly it wasn’t over analyzing in this case.  I do try and pat attention to my BS detector.  It’s less accurate that those some people have.  It makes me more resistant to marketing though. I  like to think I take “fewer wooden Nickels” as the saying goes.  I probably still get some.  There are people more cautious than me.  Less too, apparently.

You believe your own BS.

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, tehxf said:

You believe your own BS.

Still butthurt huh?

You mean the bit about binary thinking often leading to BS? Yep I do.  Seen it a lot.  Also was proven right in the comments.  Even you agreed with me, 

[Patrik_]

For all who are thinking about bios not being big enough and things like dropping features, why dont they just make it that older boards just show picture with older gens and when comes to Zen3 there could be full set of features I think this can even save a lot space. 

[Bravo1cc]

I get it, i fully expected my 3600X to be the last to sit in my X370. I think we are all losing sight of how much better this is than intel.

[NumLock21]

 

[Joe4evr]

@NumLock21 That was already posted on page 16.

 

 

[js23]

I just wonder if this means that they are sticking to the AM4 socket, don't see the point of releasing a whole new chipset and series of motherboards for one generation of CPUs since they will probably switch over to DDR5 in 2021, that is unless they are going full Intel and gunning for a quick cash grab.

[NumLock21]

Just thought of something, why not have dual bioses where users can toggle between the 2 depending on the CPU they want.

Bios 1 for older Ryzen 2000 and 3000 series where AGESA can still be updated to the latest

Bios 2 for Ryzen 4000 series along with latest AGESA

[spartaman64]

Just now, NumLock21 said:

Just thought of something, why not have dual bioses where users can toggle between the 2 depending on the CPU they want.

Bios 1 for older Ryzen 2000 and 3000 series where AGESA can still be updated to the latest

Bios 2 for Ryzen 4000 series along with latest AGESA

they dont have enough room for 1 bios how are they going to fit two

[NumLock21]

2 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

they dont have enough room for 1 bios how are they going to fit two

have 2 physical bios chip. Some boards have that right now. They're currently act as backup in case your bios flash goes wonky

[spartaman64]

Just now, NumLock21 said:

have 2 physical bios chip. Some boards have that right now.

i doubt any of the b450 motherboards have dual bios probably only the high end x470 motherboards do. and if they do it that way they are basically remove one of the features of the motherboard and it will lead to consumer confusing over which x470 motherboard supports 4000 series and which dont

[NumLock21]

3 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i doubt any of the b450 motherboards have dual bios probably only the high end x470 motherboards do. and if they do it that way they are basically remove one of the features of the motherboard and it will lead to consumer confusing over which x470 motherboard supports 4000 series and which dont

Gigabyte has on their B450 but it's only for backup purposes. The bios chips are located near the upper left side of the socket label "B_BIOS and M_BIOS"

Here is one that can be toggled, but it's from an old Asrock Intel board The ASRock Z170 Extreme 7+