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AMD not supporting Zen3 on older motherboards :(

Andk1987
7 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

People act like Zen2 parts won't be the Best Buy for about 2 years after Zen3 launches, which I find odd. I get the frustration from those that bought a 3600/B450 combo because B550 simply doesn't exist yet, but the whole of the Tech Space has suddenly forgotten the entire Zen2 range exists. The 3900X and 3950X are going to be monster parts for at least several more years.

Assuming prices will drop as we seen with 1000/2000 series CPUs.

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51 minutes ago, JuztBe said:

Assuming prices will drop as we seen with 1000/2000 series CPUs.

There's yet to be an AMD part that hasn't dropped in price, especially in the secondary market. However, the 3950X should maintain a bit more of a residual value because supply will be low. 3900X should fall like the normal.

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38 minutes ago, _DeXTeR_ said:

What you expected, AMD started taking market and its normal that they will bcm hungry for money. Worst case is that they will nto stop being hungry, soon they will bcm old Intel, with huge need for CPU-s and ofc that huge need will be folowed by huge money, chap AMD product era is almost over.

Just maybe, this is one big bait to get people to buy X570 and B550 and at last moment they will reverse, statement or just say If your manufacturer wants to support it than its on them. AMD actually is good with baiting last example should be about RDNA1 pricing. 

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2 hours ago, _DeXTeR_ said:

What you expected, AMD started taking market and its normal that they will bcm hungry for money. Worst case is that they will nto stop being hungry, soon they will bcm old Intel, with huge need for CPU-s and ofc that huge need will be folowed by huge money, chap AMD product era is almost over.

except they dont really gain anything. they are not the ones that make and sell the motherboard. im guessing some boardmaker like asus or msi complained to them that they are going to have to do extra work adding compatibility to the 400 series motherboards and thats going to make them lose out on sales

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21 hours ago, mr moose said:

What a company doesn't say in the face of mass social discussion is sometimes worse than what it does say.

Yup haha, exactly what I had said earlier. Not saying anything shows what their intentions were. 

 

19 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

The claim of "until 2020" to me, means through 2020 because all the reviewers were hyping up B450/X470 as an amazing value and you'd be able to throw a Zen2 cpu on it,  now AMD doesn't really have the advantage of being any cheaper over Intel. Yeah there are cheap X570 boards but the cheap ones aren't any better than B450, and you could actually get a Z390 board with more features for less than a X570 board.

I like AMD's products and what they've done to get Intel to be competitive again, but I can't stand the people that always defend AMD as if they can do no wrong, in this case AMD is really pulling an Intel but it almost seems worse because people are being told they can't upgrade even though the socket is exactly the same. Those that aren't aware are still going to buy B450 boards and be really upset when they realize there isn't any upgrade path to a newer cpu generation.

Yeah, I think this is a bad move on AMD's part. But it goes to show that whoever is the top dog is going to take full advantage of the opportunity. They are no different than Intel. 

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12 minutes ago, TheDailyProcrastinator said:

Yup haha, exactly what I had said earlier. Not saying anything shows what their intentions were. 

 

Yeah, I think this is a bad move on AMD's part. But it goes to show that whoever is the top dog is going to take full advantage of the opportunity. They are no different than Intel. 

We shall see.  The difference between this and an intel is there is an end to this one that occurs when b550 is actually buyable. And that’s not far away.  In the meantime, a430 does what everyone expected it to do.  A 3600x on an a430 is still a $500 full gaming machine, as is a 3950 on an x570

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13 hours ago, fyxsg said:

I hope MSI can fulfill this promise

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Did MSI even bother to confirm it with AMD, or just assume AMD would support it. Asking and confirming with AMD is one thing, simply advertising it without any confirmation is another. Whoever in MSI marketing department decided to write needs to realized they ain't Nostradamus, and to always confirm before advertising. Do know then don't advertise.

The only way MSI can fulfill this promise is by having users send in their old board in exchange for a B550.

So a MSI B450 board gets sent back to MSI. MSI then send a B550 board back to the user.

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1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

Did MSI even bother to confirm it with AMD, or just assume AMD would support it. Asking and confirming with AMD is one thing, simply advertising it without any confirmation is another. Whoever in MSI marketing department decided to write needs to realized they ain't Nostradamus, and to always confirm before advertising. Do know then don't advertise.

The only way MSI can fulfill this promise is by having users send in their old board in exchange for a B550.

So a MSI B450 board gets sent back to MSI. MSI then send a B550 board back to the user.

I hope, but I 'm pretty sure they will not do that

Maybe we have a little chance if they get into some legal stuff because of false advertisement. 

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2 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

except they dont really gain anything. they are not the ones that make and sell the motherboard. im guessing some boardmaker like asus or msi complained to them that they are going to have to do extra work adding compatibility to the 400 series motherboards and thats going to make them lose out on sales

except MSI used it as a selling point for their B450 boards, so I don't think they asked for it.  

 

1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

Did MSI even bother to confirm it with AMD, or just assume AMD would support it. Asking and confirming with AMD is one thing, simply advertising it without any confirmation is another. Whoever in MSI marketing department decided to write needs to realized they ain't Nostradamus, and to always confirm before advertising. Do know then don't advertise.

The only way MSI can fulfill this promise is by having users send in their old board in exchange for a B550.

So a MSI B450 board gets sent back to MSI. MSI then send a B550 board back to the user.

From the roadmaps AMD released,  gen 3 was supposed to work on 2020 AM4 boards (that includes the B450).  Why would MSI make assumptions about products?

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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I don't get peoples' obsession with socket compatibility.

Seriously, who gives a damn about how many generations of processors your motherboard will support? Is there seriously people out there who bought Ryzen 1 and has already upgraded their CPU to newer generations? If so, why? Why not buy what you needed to begin with and saved yourself money in the long run? If you knew you would need an 8 core processor then why did you buy a quad core just to then buy an 8 core like a year or two later? Did you really think Ryzen 1 was such a shitty product that you couldn't stick with it for more than a year or two?

 

What I think is strange is that I have never reused a motherboard when I upgraded my processor. I wouldn't even have wanted to do such a thing because by the time I upgrade my CPU, the motherboard is outdated as well.

I upgraded my CPU in 2011, and then I didn't upgrade it again until 2017. I did not go "oh damn, I can't reuse my 6 year old motherboard. Curses!" because that would have been silly. If you're upgrading more frequently than every 5 years then I suspect that you're just wasting money on buying needless upgrades, and if you just want to waste money on buying needless stuff then why be upset that you need to buy a motherboard as well? Aren't you just buying stuff to get the sanctification of buying stuff like a mindless consumer drone? Why is buying a new CPU so satisfying but a new motherboard isn't?

 

I feel like socket compatibility is one of those things that barely anyone actually has a use for, but for some reason act to like it's a major selling point.

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51 minutes ago, mr moose said:

From the roadmaps AMD released,  gen 3 was supposed to work on 2020 AM4 boards (that includes the B450).  Why would MSI make assumptions about products?

Nowhere does it say it was supposed to work on B450, in fact no where on the roadmap about Zen architectures does it show chipsets at all. What you're doing is inferring from information you are seeing something which wasn't actually stated anywhere. Zen 3 being on a 2020 roadmap and AMD saying AM4 will be supported until 2020 are two entirely different things. And like I said what does until mean? Start, middle or end of 2020?

 

There were already Zen processors not supported officially on chipsets, so there is no one to one relationship between architecture road maps and what is supported on a chipset.

 

It's a really simple fact that AMD cannot promise support on something their partners cannot deliver on, that WILL cause more complaints. It helps nobody by listing Zen 3 as supported on B450 etc if none of the existing boards can actually do it and it's a really good way to ruin relationships with those partners. Never promise something you can't deliver on, bad idea.

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13 minutes ago, ZuppaSalata said:

I hope, but I 'm pretty sure they will not do that

Maybe we have a little chance if they get into some legal stuff because of false advertisement. 

Then they have to figure something out

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

From the roadmaps AMD released,  gen 3 was supposed to work on 2020 AM4 boards (that includes the B450).  Why would MSI make assumptions about products?

For socket yes, Zen 3 still works on socket AM4, but they never made any promise about chipsets.  Saw on GN, where he said OEM already have B550 boards, they named it as B550AM which are rebadge B450 with support for PCIe 4.0. Assuming those OEM boards with the rebadge B450 as B550AM to work with Ryzen 4000 series CPUs, then board makers might be able to also support Ryzen 4000 series CPUs on their boards running the B450 chipset. It only comes down to is the BIOS rom size. I've took a look at MSI, Gigabyte, and Asus. Didn't check everyone of them, so far Both MSI and Gigabyte bios rom size is 128MB, while Asus is 128-256MB.

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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Nowhere does it say it was supposed to work on B450, in fact no where on the roadmap about Zen architectures does it show chipsets at all. What you're doing is inferring from information you are seeing something which wasn't actually stated anywhere. Zen 3 being on a 2020 roadmap and AMD saying AM4 will be supported until 2020 are two entirely different things. And like I said what does until mean? Start, middle or end of 2020?

 

There were already Zen processors not supported officially on chipsets, so there is no one to one relationship between architecture road maps and what is supported on a chipset.

 

It's a really simple fact that AMD cannot promise support on something their partners cannot deliver on, that WILL cause more complaints. It helps nobody by listing Zen 3 as supported on B450 etc if none of the existing boards can actually do it and it's a really good way to ruin relationships with those partners. 

you can only go on the information at hand.  The roadmap clearly shows GEN 3 in 2020 on AM4.  With the lack of any information claiming otherwise or correcting that,  it is not unreasonable to believe gen 3 will work on 2020 AM4motherboards.

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 minute ago, NumLock21 said:

Then they have to figure something out

For socket yes, Zen 3 still works on socket AM4, but they never made any promise about chipsets.  Saw on GN, where he said OEM already have B550 boards, they named it as B550AM which are rebadge B450 with support for PCIe 4.0. Assuming those OEM boards with the rebadge B450 as B550AM to work with Ryzen 4000 series CPUs, then board makers might be able to also support Ryzen 4000 series CPUs on their boards running the B450 chipset. It only comes down to is the BIOS rom size. I've took a look at MSI, Gigabyte, and Asus. Didn't check everyone of them, so far Both MSI and Gigabyte bios rom size is 128MB, while Asus is 128-256MB.

 

So the b450 has the right socket  in the right year for the generation they said they would support.    Trying to argue the technicality that they never promised chipset support is splitting hairs and ignores the roadmap/marketing

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

you can only go on the information at hand.  The roadmap clearly shows GEN 3 in 2020 on AM4.  With the lack of any information claiming otherwise or correcting that,  it is not unreasonable to believe gen 3 will work on 2020 AM4motherboards.

Yes and support ended in 2020 correct? It's until 2020 and have a look at the date.

 

And the information at hand was already that not all chipsets support all processors so that is a you error, you assumed and you got it wrong.

 

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X370 ^, just one example. And even with it not officially supported you can put Ryzen 3000 CPUs in some X370 boards, it's not officially supported by AMD but you can. And you know what year Ryzen 3000 was released correct? So..... why is this an issue now when it was already a thing......

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To be fair, they do have that * on the motherboard part. That's where the finesse happened and everyone feeling AMD heel turned on the community.

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Just now, leadeater said:

Yes and support ended in 2020 correct? It's until 2020 and have a look at the date.

 

And the information at hand was already that not all chipsets support all processors so that is a you error, you assumed and you got it wrong.

 

RA9JH1QLWDI5IekI.jpg&key=4cdede665e555e3

X370 ^, just one example. And even with it not officially supported you can put Ryzen 3000 CPUs in some X370 boards, it's not officially supported by AMD but you can. And you know what year Ryzen 3000 was released correct? So..... why is this an issue now when it was already a thing......

Information after the fact.  

 

Their roadmap clearly shows gen 3 on AM4 during 2020 not after 2020.

 

We can't assume things they never said. 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Those 3 boards makers I checked, in their specs page for their B450 boards, some says support for Ryzen 3rd Gen and some don't. I think their definition of 3rd gen isn't our definition of 3rd gen? For them, Ryzen 3rd Gen is Ryzen 3000 series, while 4th Gen will be Ryzen 4000 series. But for us, Ryzen 4000 series is 3rd gen, since it's based on Zen 3.

 

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4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Information after the fact.  

No this was given at Ryzen 300 launch and covered in detail, ALOT. Not my problem if you forgot, or AMDs.

 

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Their roadmap clearly shows gen 3 on AM4 during 2020 not after 2020.

Irrelevant and ignoring existing information. You're just holding a company to your assumptions not on facts and information that has already existed.

 

And like I said before it would have been best to have made a press release about B550 delays and made the statement about support to remind people or inform them about support but at the same time none of us know when AMD could have released that information because there are other factors, partner contracts and negotiations, that need to happen.

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Even gigabyte think B450 will support gen3, so it's not just MSI.  If the board manufacturers think it will be supported and roadmaps say it will be, and AMD haven't said anything to anyone until now that it won't,  why should anyone assume it won'gigabyte.png.73888298cc3c474d7cdcc07a27b18e18.pngt work?

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 minute ago, NumLock21 said:

Those 3 boards makers I checked, in their specs page for their B450 boards, some says support for Ryzen 3rd Gen and some don't. I think their definition of 3rd gen isn't our definition of 3rd gen? For them, Ryzen 3rd Gen is Ryzen 3000 series, while 4th Gen will be Ryzen 4000 series. But for us, Ryzen 4000 series is 3rd gen, since it's based on Zen 3.

 

That's a pretty big balls up in marketing and will only end in tears if that's the case.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

No this was given at Ryzen 300 launch and covered in detail, ALOT. Not my problem if you forgot, or AMDs.

 

Irrelevant and ignoring existing information. You're just holding a company to your assumptions not on facts and information that has already existed.

 

And like I said before it would have been best to have made a press release about B550 delays and made the statement about support to remind people or inform them about support but at the same time none of us know when AMD could have released that information because there are other factors, partner contracts and negotiations, that need to happen.

It's not my assumption,  some boards had issues running some CPU's is not the same as AMD correcting information in a timely manner regarding what they will and won't officially support moving forward. EDIT: and that was played of as too small of a bios to do it being a board issue not a support issue by AMD.  This news specifically says AMD will block support which is not the same.

 

There is a big difference between AMD marketing support for Gen3 on AM4 in 2020 and then not correcting that information until after people have purchased when they announce it's not actually AM4 in 2020 but only some AM4 in 2020 or after.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Information from June 2019.

index.php?ct=news&action=file&id=32517

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/ryzen-3000-ready-chipsets-overview.html

 

And gain in November 2019

o8cmVJmikUwXrEEmLJZomc-650-80.png

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-3000-does-motherboard-support

 

And then multiple different reviews also covered and showed compatibility problems during the release/reviews of Ryzen 3000. And this page existed before B550 but has since been update, the information about compatibility issues with Ryzen 3000 (Zen 2) was and is still on there, https://www.amd.com/en/chipsets/x570

 

AMD put out as many warnings as possible that chipset and processor compatibility were problematic and reviewers covered why it was a problem, BIOS and AGESA size. If it was a problem in 2019 why would it not be a problem in 2020?

 

Edit:

3rd Gen Ryzen is not Zen 3, Zen 3 is 4th Gen Ryzen 4000. Because it looks like this is getting confused, these namings are so stupid.

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3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

This news specifically says AMD will block support which is not the same.

Who says it would be blocked? You don't know and I know AMD has not said it will be blocked. How about we keep assumptions down to a minimum and work off what companies have actually said or details on official information released by them.

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My personal take away from all this:

 

For consumers who have not yet bought a ryzen system: b450 and x470 are Eol. They’re basically a series boards that will take zen+ and often zen2.  Avoid buying until the b550 comes out unless you are making a workstation level machine and would have been buying a multi hundred dollar x570 motherboard anyway.  Assuming there is choice. 
 

For consumers who did buy a b450 thinking they’d be able to upgrade: you’ve been hornswaggled. There are arguments as to whether or not you were hornswaggled fair and square or not, but either way it happened. Barring the motherboard maker coming out with a bios update (which I think is unlikely) they will never run a cpu faster or better than a 3700x/3900x

 

The good news is this will all be figured out and be water under the bridge before the new video cards hit.

Edited by Bombastinator
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