Asus Caught Being Malicious - Zephyrus G15 has fan vents blocked by black paper. Reason Unknown

[5x5]

46 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

Are they blocked, though?

Is the paper air permeable?

 

More generally:
 

Does having the paper reduce dust intake?

Does the paper reduce noise that is otherwise extremely loud?

Is this a manufacturing mistake only in some units? (i.e. Paper installed to transport partially completed machine from one place to the next, and forgot to remove it)
Could this have been a workflow mistake by factory workers?

Could Asus be nerfing their own product line(s) without Intel's involvement?

Could these units have been intercepted and modified without Asus knowledge?

 

There are many things that could explain this. Let's give Asus a chance to explain themselves before jumping to conclusions and trying to cancel Intel/Asus.

1 - yes
2 - no
3 - black paper is not a filter, it's solid and not an anti-dust measure as there are other cut-outs around the bottom
4 - no - it generates more noise as the fans work harder to move air
5 - not enough data to confirm manufacturing defect but the metal clips that hold the paper are purpose designed for their positions
6 - doubtful
7 - certainly possible but we have no idea why. Hence why I said speculation based on what I've read on forums
8 - Nope - we have regular users and reviewers alike reporting it

Asus arguments so far have changed twice - first it's supposedly the prevent keyboard heat (which makes no sense as the heat generating components have no paper over or under them and the fans are cool spots) and then it was supposedly to ensure better airflow which also makes no sense as removing the paper universally improves both internal and external temps.

[Blademaster91]

36 minutes ago, mariushm said:

It could be a last minute fix for laptop to pass EMI tests and be allowed to be sold in certain countries .. electric radiation that could affect radios and various devices.  It could be to shape the air flow across some components better, it could be the holes were too big and water could get into laptop too easily.

It's a really cheap and weird fix, but  makes sense as something to redirect airflow, or as a possibly as a water barrier, although would paper be effective at blocking EMI?

But what bothers me more is Asus using tons of thermal paste over the VRM's instead of some high quality thermal pads, just seems cheap to me.

[5x5]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

It's a really cheap and weird fix, but  makes sense as something to redirect airflow, or as a possibly as a water barrier, although would paper be effective at blocking EMI?

But what bothers me more is Asus using tons of thermal paste over the VRM's instead of some high quality thermal pads, just seems cheap to me.

That's the thing - if it were EMI, wouldn't they need an entire cover, not cover the fan vents but leave the ones on top of the board exposed? Makes no sense

[Curufinwe_wins]

24 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

That's the thing - if it were EMI, wouldn't they need an entire cover, not cover the fan vents but leave the ones on top of the board exposed? Makes no sense

No, that wouldn't necessarily be required. Directionality is a thing. Both from components in the chassis and from emissions. The heatsink itself could act as a buffer for both. Reminder that wire cages can function depending on the frequency and size of cutouts.

25 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

It's a really cheap and weird fix, but  makes sense as something to redirect airflow, or as a possibly as a water barrier, although would paper be effective at blocking EMI?

But what bothers me more is Asus using tons of thermal paste over the VRM's instead of some high quality thermal pads, just seems cheap to me.

Depends on the ink/coloration material. Paper isn't a good EMI filter, but it certainly can be good enough if the issue wasn't severe. Also the thermal paste complaint is very valid. Over time that will likely cause some serious degradation as the paste dries or flows away.

 

 

Following your previous comment... A user manual can state all kinds of things, but if the device falls over dead or has other issues just because a person put a LAPtop on their LAP or on a bed, that is still bad design and WILL result in customer complaints/returns/bad reputation. I'm not saying I know this had issues like that. I'm saying that fixes to prevent issues caused by dumb consumers are still extremely important fixes for companies to do.

 

That is simply a reality. And I still don't buy the thermal argument as a big deal at all. It doesn't change how the laptop performs relative to intel competition (which is basically creaming it). There would literally be no point or desire for Intel to risk something like that (and no NOTHING the have done comes close to something like paying a company to sabotage their own shipping product) and people are being kneejerk tin-foil here.

[5x5]

Update - UltraBookReview is also not happy with the vents. According to them, it's a design flaw.

Quote

 

I couldn’t take them out and test the impact on this unit, but other reviews mention a 7-10 degrees decrease in CPU and GPU temperatures once that’s done, as well as a slight increase in performance.

From what I understand, Asus claims that channeling the air this way is required to cool other components on the motherboard and keep the keyboard at lower temperatures, but I’m inclined to consider this a flawed design and I’m not comfortable with the hardware running at this sort of high temperatures long-term, especially when that hardware is merely a Max-Q mid-range GPU in a 15-inch chassis. In comparison, the 14-inch G14 reaches similarly high temperatures, but in a smaller chassis, while the full power Asus A15 runs just as hot, but offers a more powerful hardware platform.

As far as fan-noise goes, here’s what we got:

• Turbo – 48-49 dB with games (47 dB Armoury Crate), 48-49 dB with Cinebench loop test;
• Performance – 46-47 dB with games (46 dB Armoury Crate), 37-44 dB with Cinebench loop test;
• Silent – 38-39 dB with games (38 dB Armoury Crate), 35-39 dB with Cinebench loop test, 32-35 dB with Daily use.

 

•  

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/37011-asus-rog-zephyrus-g15-review/

[5x5]

 Someone also did an AMA on Reddit

Quote

 

-Overall temperatures are down from 5-8 degrees Celsius. I played Skyrim and MTW2 with mods for about hour, and I noticed the fans kicking later than stock.

2) Have you re-pasted your CPU/GPU?

-I didn’t have any quality thermal paste around. I’ll save that for next time. For laptops, you’ll want a thicker paste such as phobya nanogrease extreme and not thermal grizzly kryonaut.

3) How long until the fans ramp up since you've performed surgery on the G15? Big difference?

-As mentioned earlier, I definitely noticed it kicking in about 5-10 minutes later. I wasn’t expecting any difference, so this surprised me. It’ll still get loud eventually.

4) Apart from temperature questions, general impressions of G15 after surgery? Do you think it fixes its [design] flaws to your satisfaction?

-I’m pretty happy with it, but I’m upgrading from a 8 year old so my standard is pretty low. If you’re worried about voiding the warranty, it’s not difficult to remove the paper cover and vent in one piece. If anything happens, you can place it back on the rivets and use some black, heat resistant glue on the external surface. For longevity, I think uncovering the vents is the way to go. You have to remember all those stress test on YouTube reviewers are worst case scenario.

The last flaw that really bothers me is the absence of an exhaust vent at the left side with the CPU fan. That’s a really poor design. Maybe in the future, I’ll drill a hole at the plastic and create a copper extension.

 

Quote

 

First, air is a poor heat conductor which is why you have copper heatsinks and thin thermal pastes over CPU/GPU. If those uncovered vents caused a less efficient airflow to those components, it will not be significant in terms of thermal dissipation. Those motherboard components are made to withstand very high temperatures at >100 degrees Celsius. They shouldn’t be running that hot anyway because they don’t draw as much power as the main components. I think if you keep the CPU/GPU cooler in the first place, you’re less likely to have that heat dissipating to those other components. The G15’s motherboard design isn’t special either. Comparing to other laptops with a similar layout, they all have a large surface area for air intake.

I really believe they placed those covers to market “anti dust, self cleaning fans” for longer lasting thermals due to less debris. Does that really matter though if the overall longevity of the laptop is decreased because of the high temperatures caused by the blockage? It’s not hard to open and clean, and it’s recommended to change the thermal paste annually anyway if you’re a heavy user.

 

 

[5x5]

1 minute ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

No, that wouldn't necessarily be required. Directionality is a thing. Both from components in the chassis and from emissions. The heatsink itself could act as a buffer for both. Reminder that wire cages can function depending on the frequency and size of cutouts.

Depends on the ink/coloration material.

 

 

Following your previous comment... A user manual can state all kinds of things, but if the device falls over dead or has other issues just because a person put a LAPtop on their LAP or on a bed, that is still bad design and WILL result in customer complaints/returns/bad reputation. I'm not saying I know this had issues like that. I'm saying that fixes to prevent issues caused by dumb consumers are still extremely important fixes for companies to do.

 

That is simply a reality. And I still don't buy the thermal argument as a big deal at all. It doesn't change how the laptop performs relative to intel competition (which is basically creaming it). There would literally be no point or desire for Intel to risk something like that (and no NOTHING the have done comes close to something like paying a company to sabotage their own shipping product) and people are being kneejerk tin-foil here.

Well, there is a tangible benefit to both performance and thermals it seems. I'm not sure It's Intel - but it's definitely a horrible decision on Asus' part.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Just now, 5x5 said:

Well, there is a tangible benefit to both performance and thermals it seems. I'm not sure It's Intel - but it's definitely a horrible decision on Asus' part.

It may certainly seem like a surface level bad choice, but if it does actually baffle noise or if it (for whatever reason) allows them to sell in markets that they couldn't otherwise or if it reduces the number of specific customer complaints... It is hard to say it is a bad business decision.

 

In the end, soon enough there will be other laptop options with the same hardware, so Asus's design ends up being noticeably flawed by comparison, that can only hurt them. (another reason why it wouldn't make sense for Intel to pay off people)

[5x5]

6 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

It may certainly seem like a surface level bad choice, but if it does actually baffle noise or if it (for whatever reason) allows them to sell in markets that they couldn't otherwise or if it reduces the number of specific customer complaints... It is hard to say it is a bad business decision.

 

In the end, soon enough there will be other laptop options with the same hardware, so Asus's design ends up being noticeably flawed by comparison, that can only hurt them. (another reason why it wouldn't make sense for Intel to pay off people)

Asus fan noise only gets worse, though, due to the covers as evidenced by users and the explanations they are so far presenting are very odd.

 

And the speculation on the NBR forums about intel is also connected with the fact that most OEMs don't offer 2070/2080 GPUs with Ryzen CPUs. Again, I'm. Not arguing intel is being the devil, I'm merely the messanger here and congesting all the information I've read over the past few hours.

[Curufinwe_wins]

6 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Asus fan noise only gets worse, though, due to the covers as evidenced by users and the explanations they are so far presenting are very odd.

 

And the speculation on the NBR forums about intel is also connected with the fact that most OEMs don't offer 2070/2080 GPUs with Ryzen CPUs. Again, I'm. Not arguing intel is being the devil, I'm merely the messanger here and congesting all the information I've read over the past few hours.

But the speculation is from people who already want to believe the worst. I doubt the noise is worse, but hey, that is something that can be measured. Once we have measurements ofc.

 

Like all the G14 reviews were completely glowing. Mission not accomplished if it was attempted 

[genexis_x]

Knew about this topic earlier and I have no interest discussing it. Anyway, what I could say is Asus doing Asus things again - they don't have interest in AMD products it seems (G14 is the only exception). See what they have done to the previous G15/GA502 as well. I've never seen such bad Zephyrus model before (the only Zephyrus with mainly plastic construction). Not to forget their AMD GPUs drama. In the end, they made AMD look bad for consumers/potential buyers.

 

Give whatever engineering reasons like improve VRM temps (which makes little sense since it shares same heatsink with CPU&GPU), lower outer chassis temp etc, they are just BS excuses IMO. CPU&GPU temps are far more important. Have you seen other gaming laptops having entirely blocked fan intakes? No.

 

Whether Intel paid/bribed them or not, I have no idea. Maybe Asus really aren't interested in AMD products. But this model could be make a lot better (add 1 more heatpipe, use 2060 80+W GPU). Fun fact: The smaller G14 actually cools better than this bigger G15.

[genexis_x]

3 hours ago, 5x5 said:

And the speculation on the NBR forums about intel is also connected with the fact that most OEMs don't offer 2070/2080 GPUs with Ryzen CPUs

I believe this has nothing to do with Intel. AMD is a newcomer in the gaming laptop market, previous attempts don't count since the performance is bad due to old architecture (before Ryzen) and using upped TDP U series APUs (Ryzen). Hence, manufacturers don't want to take the risk of not selling their products well, since most consumers still think that Intel is a more superior product (or brand) in the laptop market, even though it isn't after Ryzen 4000 mobile release.

 

Everyone now is talking about how good those Ryzen CPUs/APUs are in the laptop space due to more superior efficiency (efficiency is king in laptops). Manufacturers could have gain a huge profit if they sell more Ryzen laptops earlier (eg Asus with TUF FA506, Zephyrus G14). 

[5x5]

7 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

But the speculation is from people who already want to believe the worst. I doubt the noise is worse, but hey, that is something that can be measured. Once we have measurements ofc.

 

Like all the G14 reviews were completely glowing. Mission not accomplished if it was attempted 

Agreed, the most logical current explanation is Asus' attempt to emulate MacBook bottom design more than anything else.

[5x5]

48 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

So we have people claiming the obstructed vents are normal, but at the same time have no explanation for why this is not found on other models?

Don't you put black paper on your case intake fans too?

[samcool55]

Regardless of reason, it's a stupid design flaw.

Either the holes should be open and used for cooling. Or there should be no holes at all.

Having holes clearly designed for the fans and then blocking them off again is just a waste of time and money.

 

Also, can anyone explain why having less cooling somehow results in cooler parts? Like, how does that even work?

 

[BachChain]

A while ago, I bought a dell Inspiron 5585 with a 3700u, and that also had a sort of wax paper on the grill directly below the fan intakes. I doubt that it was intentional gimping since that grill spans almost the entire bottom of the chassis and only a small part of it was blocked.

[5x5]

36 minutes ago, BachChain said:

A while ago, I bought a dell Inspiron 5585 with a 3700u, and that also had a sort of wax paper on the grill directly below the fan intakes. I doubt that it was intentional gimping since that grill spans almost the entire bottom of the chassis and only a small part of it was blocked.

Can you show an image of the bottom cover and draw lines where the paper was?

[mariushm]

1 hour ago, samcool55 said:

Also, can anyone explain why having less cooling somehow results in cooler parts? Like, how does that even work?

 

Same reason why some power supply fans have plastic over a part of the fan...

 

 

The plastic directs the flow of air in the direction of some parts that actually need the cold air , or cause some "vortex" inside, preventing pockets of warm air from forming in some areas of the power supply (and that warm air gets stuck in that area and doesn't move).

[genexis_x]

1 hour ago, mariushm said:

Same reason why some power supply fans have plastic over a part of the fan...

 

 

The plastic directs the flow of air in the direction of some parts that actually need the cold air , or cause some "vortex" inside, preventing pockets of warm air from forming in some areas of the power supply (and that warm air gets stuck in that area and doesn't move).

Thanks for the explanation, but I believe in the case of the G15, the intake vents are closed ENTIRELY

[5x5]

Just now, genexis_x said:

Thanks for the explanation, but I believe in the case of the G15, the intake vents are closed ENTIRELY

The only open vents are above the board but those are not ideal for airflow as unblocking the fan vents reduces thermals by quite a bit

[genexis_x]

2 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

The only open vents are above the board but those are not ideal for airflow as unblocking the fan vents reduces thermals by quite a bit

All I can say is stupid design, I've never seen any models blocking bottom intakes like that.

[CTR640]

Can't we all boycot Asus? They have really stupid the past years and it seems they don't care at all.

I doubt Asus doesn't have interest in AMD otherwise they simply won't put AMD in their laptops and starts self-sabotaging. There is a more chance of Intel bribed Asus to make AMD look bad, that's the only one possibility I see it for now. Asus is not dumb to design it this way. It's just Intel doing shady stuff again like they did in the past and they are simply willing to do that over and over again. Intel knows they are in deep shit, Intel knows they have been sleeping and way too arrogant and greedy. Why is it only Asus so far and not other brands?

[Tog Driver]

22 hours ago, 5x5 said:

Unhappy worker can't machine, design and authorize these metal clips and paper parts for production, though.

Yeah, they could.

Ever heard of sabotage? Do you’re job just good enough that people don’t suspect you, but when no one is looking throw some metal dust into electronics or something.

 

not saying this was sabotage (just dropped by the thread out of curiosity, haven’t read the whole thing) but it’s possible for unhappy workers to Be productive.

[5x5]

2 minutes ago, Tog Driver said:

Yeah, they could.

Ever heard of sabotage? Do you’re job just good enough that people don’t suspect you, but when no one is looking throw some metal dust into electronics or something.

 

not saying this was sabotage (just dropped by the thread out of curiosity, haven’t read the whole thing) but it’s possible for unhappy workers to Be productive.

You'd need the approval of at least two product managers and one production line manager to machine two parts at the factory and rivet them together. You'd get noticed and sent to a Chinese gulag in all of 10 minutes.

[Tog Driver]

17 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

You'd need the approval of at least two product managers and one production line manager to machine two parts at the factory and rivet them together. You'd get noticed and sent to a Chinese gulag in all of 10 minutes.

I know nothing of this exact situation, it could be Martians trying to push 89G to give us all cancer. all I’m saying is that unhappy people can still work.