Intel 10th Gen CPUs revealed w/ ASUS z490 Motherboards

[porina]

5 hours ago, 5x5 said:

So is the stock cooler a water chiller or?

That's for the K CPUs so there is no stock cooler. The other locked parts are 65W TDP so that's the minimum cooler they'll come with. Implicitly the smallest cooler you want to put on these k CPUs will cope with 125W TDP. Most enthusiast overclocking mobos will tend to ignore the PL2 and tau values and just go as fast as the CPU allows without overriding its clock behaviour. In that case, you want the best cooler you can get... mass produced systems will long term limit to TDP (with short term boost "up to" PL2) so they wont have massive coolers.

 

It is making me wonder now, just how much cooling would you ideally need for sustained 200W+? I'm not an extreme overclocker but I ran my 1700 at what it reported as 180W or so, and that was barely manageable with a 280mm AIO. I plan on strapping a chiller to my 7920X at some point and put AVX-512 through it. Anyone want to take bets on how much power I can push through it?

[GDRRiley]

nothing say efficient like a chip boosting into 250W TDP range.

skylake has been stretched so far.

[SolarNova]

Dunno why people are bothered over the TDP figures. its not like they havnt had TDP figures that high in the past.

The Sandybridge 3930k i still run has a stock TDP of 130w, and I run it overclocked.

[KWelz]

5 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

Dunno why people are bothered over the TDP figures. its not like they havnt had TDP figures that high in the past.

The Sandybridge 3930k i still run has a stock TDP of 130w, and I run it overclocked.

Because this isn't 2012.   Chips are becoming more efficient not less.  Intel has also always been known as the more efficient chip maker.   The fact that they are having to resort to the "put more power through it" mentality is concerning.  

 

[xtroria]

AMD is still running away with the higher end market. I guess the intel architecture simply wasn't scalable enough? Either that or intel is just being greedy

 

The i5 and i7 market is actually pretty interesting. I'd still take intel over amd with more or less the same price since the higher clock speed is still important for online games that ask for it.

 

10600KF and 10700KF should be competitive in the market, given the chips' capability to run at 5ghz easily.

[Mister Woof]

At first I was like, "yes the $350 i7-10700KF will be a decent competitor to the $330 Ryzen 7 3700x"

 

But then I thought, "why does the 3700x get recommended over the 9900k?"

 

The answer is that it costs only $330 (now often sub-$300) compared to the $500 9900k, a $170 discount.

 

Well if the i7-10700k retails for $350, all AMD needs to do to combat that is too put it in the same spot as the 9900k is, and drop the price of the 3700x to $249.

 

Then that's pretty much it for Intel.

[Arika]

11 hours ago, Dellenn said:

Yeah - I saw this one and had some REAL questions about the SATA layout.

Oooh, gross. Wtf

[TrigrH]

10 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Oooh, gross. Wtf

Silverstone's CP11-B will fix that  

[Letgomyleghoe]

12 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

The SATA ports on this board, needs a case with the cutout right underneath it, for the best cable management as possible, otherwise it’s not going to look nice. 

OMG NOO WHY ONLY TWO RAM SLOTS

 

i get the additional nvme thingy majig but why!?

[NumLock21]

6 minutes ago, scuff gang said:

OMG NOO WHY ONLY TWO RAM SLOTS

 

i get the additional nvme thingy majig but why!?

Their APEX line up is designed for overclocking and it's always has half the number of ram slots.

[porina]

9 hours ago, KWelz said:

The fact that they are having to resort to the "put more power through it" mentality is concerning.  

Intel have 3 main choices right now.

1, Move to a smaller process. 10nm is pretty much written off for mainstream desktop, and 7nm might be 2022 so don't hold your breath. I think Intel did kinda say they will do a 10nm desktop CPU this year, but that's looking more like a niche product than any volume product. I'd speculate it might be a HEDT CPU from the closely related 10nm server CPUs expected "soon".

2, Improve the architecture. They have a post-Skylake architecture, but currently you can only find it on mobile CPUs. Rumours are it is being backported to 14nm for the next gen desktop. Expect that next year some time.

3, push up the frequency/voltage curve. AMD are doing it, and are forcing Intel to follow likewise. Any CPU can be efficient or a furnace depending on where you operate it. Historically most Intel CPUs had generous headroom, leading to much fun from overclockers. Since Zen 2, AMD are running close to the line, with slim pickings. Intel CPUs are following to keep appearing to show progress, at the cost of power efficiency.

 

8 hours ago, xtroria said:

I guess the intel architecture simply wasn't scalable enough?

I'm not sure where the practical upper limit is, but the ring cache in consumer Intel CPUs only works well up to a point. If you look at past server CPUs when they still used ring cache, beyond some core count they had to split to multiple rings which increases complexity and can have performance impact. Current higher core count Intel CPU parts have switched to mesh cache, but that doesn't play so well with consumer like workloads.

[thorhammerz]

10 hours ago, porina said:

It is making me wonder now, just how much cooling would you ideally need for sustained 200W+? 

A 240mm+ AIO or dual tower air cooler should be able to do it without much hassle (load temperatures will probably be a bit warm in the 70-80 range depending on whether its delidded or not).

 

IIIRC, Puget system's were recommending at least a 140mm AIO for their skylake-x systems awhile back when those were a thing, but i'm guessing those would probably run in the 80-90 degree range on max rpm...

[5x5]

MSI's product page is fucked as well. Seems Z490 was so rushed, they copy-pasted the X570 text.

[5x5]

Their awards page also features Indian Tech Youtubers. Classic

[ne0tic]

Intel Z490 is 75% more expensive than Intel Z390 in Sweden it seems like... 

[CTR640]

22 hours ago, 5x5 said:

Yeah, but I'm still slightly worried - you see, "up to" is a legal loophole word that I hate to see.

That's to make sure Intel stays safe from being sued I think. "Up to" is wether the cooler or the system is able to attain that and if not, Intel will blame it on the consumer if she/he sues them. "Up to" is unfortunately over-used.

[CTR640]

22 hours ago, 5x5 said:

Yeah, but I'm still slightly worried - you see, "up to" is a legal loophole word that I hate to see.

That's to make sure Intel stays safe from being sued I think. "Up to" is wether the cooler or the system is able to attain that and if not, Intel will blame it on the consumer if she/he sues them. "Up to" is unfortunately over-used.

 

-edit- Something went wrong with LTT.

[Dellenn]

4 hours ago, thorhammerz said:

A 240mm+ AIO or dual tower air cooler should be able to do it without much hassle (load temperatures will probably be a bit warm in the 70-80 range depending on whether its delidded or not).

 

IIIRC, Puget system's were recommending at least a 140mm AIO for their skylake-x systems awhile back when those were a thing, but i'm guessing those would probably run in the 80-90 degree range on max rpm...

The BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 4 is rated for 250W - so that's one option. I'm sure Noctua has a solution for that same heat output.

[AngryBeaver]

Intel needs to kick the monolithic approach and also get a new interconnect. The ring bus now that we have 8+ cores is going to start to show its age and we will see latency increases.

 

We REALLY need to see graphic engines like Dx12 splitting up draw calls to more than a single core. I know there are some hurdles here when it comes to frame pacing and sync, but the day they can spread that out to even 2 cores will be the same day that intel has to drastically change their strategy. 

 

Don't get me wrong. I love intel and I think they make a really good product, but they made some gambles that didn't pay off and they are just throwing frequency at the problem. It is time they bring out something new and innovating (which I am sure they are working on, but this will push that timeline forward).

[Arika]

24 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Don't get me wrong. I love intel and I think they make a really good product, but they made some gambles that didn't pay off and they are just throwing frequency at the problem. It is time they bring out something new and innovating (which I am sure they are working on, but this will push that timeline forward).

i have no doubt they are working on it, but until they get 7nm sorted, they cant just not release anything until then. good way to piss off stakeholders. so they are making what ever improvements they can so they dont drop off.

[Dellenn]

Aorus Motherboards

 

https://us.aorus.com/AorusDirect/

[Dylanc1500]

@Dellenn Just to note, they have also started releasing H470 and B460 motherboards as well. Gigabyte has some listed on their website. https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Intel-H470-B460

[Kisai]

On 4/30/2020 at 6:55 AM, 5x5 said:

On a MASSIVE side note - why does the base clock say "up to" - this REALLY worries me.

"Up to", the weasel words of the last 20 years. Turboboost and various dynamic clocking schemes mean that to save energy it will clock down, but the maximum clock is dependent on the cooling capacity.

 

My feeling, just looking at the parts and their price points is that all the F and KF models are where the GPU cores don't pass validation so they're turned off, which gives you a very slight bump in headroom. The K/KF parts probably pass all CPU core validation, and the non-K parts are just the sweet point where they are set at a reasonable TDP. So K/KF parts have 125w TDP, all the rest have 65w TDP. It's important to note.

 

The non-K parts have lower base clocks with more cores.  That's clearly to keep thermals respectable since they're still all 14nm. Which means don't expect any performance increase per core, in fact it might even go down if you buy a part with more cores, since they can't all operate at the maximum speed.

 

[SenKa]

Happy to see dual cores totally removed from the Core iX lineup, i5's return to relevancy, and the moving away from random half-step components that just cut hyperthreading and made 0 sense to buy.

 

Kind of sucks that Intel is *still* dragging their feet about putting more than 10 cores in their mainstream socket though. It seems like the exact same fight Intel v AMD had back in the Pentium 4 days. Intel holds supremacy in clocks, while AMD demolishes in cores. The difference is that this time, games are preferring cores.

 

Prices are also quite low on the high end for Intel, though pricing their 10 core part up to bat with AMD's 12 core 3900x isnt very wise. Low end prices are utterly stupid, and Intel will continue to get demolished in this segment unless the performance is double what AMD has to offer down low.  No buyers remorse for 3rd gen Ryzen owners, but happy to see Intel finally wising up and playing chess with the rest of us rather than mahjong. Sucks 10nm *still* isnt ready, as well. That 125 Watt "Thermal Design Power" (Roughly an all core synthetic at base clock) has me INCREDIBLY worried as for what type of cooler those high end chips will need. Also, still UHD 630 intel? Really?

[NumLock21]

Don't know if this board was mentioned or not. Anyway here is another one from Asus, the ProArt Z490. It's the only one so far out of their Z490 lineup to have built in Thunderbolt 3, rest of them requires a separated card.

 

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/PROART-Z490-CREATOR-10G/