iPhone SE 2020 Short Circuit wrongs...

[RejZoR]

Watched the iPhone SE SE 2020 2nd edition video and there was quite some misinformation...

 

I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned that while it's using latest A13 Bionic chip, the chip itself is downclocked a bit. Which means it's not as fast as iPhone 11. This was revealed quite some time ago so it's a bit weird it wasn't included.

Secondly, can you guys seriously stop just looking at battery rated capacity and make dumb conclusions based on what you know from Android? Like, seriously. Androids need 4500+ mAh batteries as standard to get any usable time out of device because it's more general purpose designed. Where iOS is very focused and optimized for very specific devices and while it might be on the aggressive side, it manages battery so well they pull ridiculous times from much smaller batteries.

 

So, pairing seemingly small 1800mAh battery with DOWNCLOCKED super efficient A13 Bionic, aggressive iOS app management and those 1800mAh becomes far from "garbage". It still might not win any gold medals in run time compared to lets say iPhone XR which has sort of similar HW but much bigger battery and same OS management, but for most users it'll run for more than long enough to get through entire day without any special issues. It's a bit weird that after all this time people at LTT still don't know this and they handle all the new hot hardware including Apple stuff almost weekly and still manage to make such dumb claims/assumptions. And it's not some special case usage to notice that, it's pretty much common knowledge at this point that smaller batteries in Apple devices give you same run time as much bigger battery Android devices. No wonder people call you guys "Apple haters" with stuff like this being repeatedly published on your channel...

[NineEyeRon]

5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

No wonder people call you guys "Apple haters" with stuff like this being repeatedly published on your channel...

I would disagree, LMG are pretty fair in their criticism of most brands. Apple needs to be kept on their toes and LMG are pretty close to being taken note of by Apple, if not already, due to the channels influence.

 

Apple fans should support LMG as a better produce could result from it.

 

[RejZoR]

Just now, NineEyeRon said:

I would disagree, LMG are pretty fair in their criticism of most brands. Apple needs to be kept on their toes and LMG are pretty close to being taken note of by Apple, if not already, due to the channels influences

 

Apple fans should support LMG as a better produce could result from it.

 

How is looking at 1800mAh rated battery capacity and calling it "garbage" a "fair" assessment? Apple needs to be kept at toes? Really? How? By spoon feeding people with straight up false information? Hell, they literally have the frigging device at hand, but apparently couldn't be bothered to run a fully charged damn thing for just 1 day to see how it actually performs. Come on dude, get real here...

[Zodiark1593]

 

7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

How is looking at 1800mAh rated battery capacity and calling it "garbage" a "fair" assessment? Apple needs to be kept at toes? Really? How? By spoon feeding people with straight up false information? Hell, they literally have the frigging device at hand, but apparently couldn't be bothered to run a fully charged damn thing for just 1 day to see how it actually performs. Come on dude, get real here...

For the performance you get, the A13 is extremely efficient. But when you’re running the thing full tilt, it can devour battery life at a rapid pace. For heavy users, a lesser battery will die out pretty quickly. 

[dizmo]

Maybe change your own attitude before you start bashing theirs. Android devices most certainly don't need 4,500mah batteries to get usable time. It might be the way they use the phone that kills it quickly. I've never used an Apple phone for any length of time over a few minutes so I don't know how they react to load. IIRC they have IPS displays though so that's a drainer.

 

You're right in that you shouldn't claim battery life numbers based on battery size, but it's true for both Apple and Android; phones with the same sized batteries can get drastically different battery life numbers.

 

Their TechLinked bit on the new Motorola phone was rather odd as well. They say they'd obviously choose the LG based on the fact it has a headphone jack alone, when the Motorola has one too? It's almost like they didn't bother reading anything but headlines to get their information for the video. Which I've heard is rather normal for the channel, which is sad.

 

If you want to have any kind of impact with your post, why didn't you tag them?
 

@LinusTech

[lewdicrous]

Wait, the same people who recommended the phone are Apple haters? Really?

[NineEyeRon]

5 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

For heavy users, a lesser battery will die out pretty quickly. 

I can attest with Pokemon Go and my iPhone 7. 
 

I am looking at the SE and will definitely consider the battery life as part of the decision.

 

My trusty 7 is still chugging along nicely thanks to Apple downclocking it for me. From personal experience Apple should have been applauded for “slowing” older phones.

[actually-light]

10 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

How is looking at 1800mAh rated battery capacity and calling it "garbage" a "fair" assessment? Apple needs to be kept at toes? Really? How? By spoon feeding people with straight up false information? Hell, they literally have the frigging device at hand, but apparently couldn't be bothered to run a fully charged damn thing for just 1 day to see how it actually performs. Come on dude, get real here...

The iPhone SE battery is okay, and like they said in the video, it's probably fine for most people. That being said, apple isn't magic and the iPhone SE has consistently underperformed in battery life tests compared to pretty much everything else because, shocker, 1800mah is garbage.

 

It's not an unacceptably poor battery, since it does well enough for most people, but the battery is definitely a bit crap.

[vetali]

14 minutes ago, NineEyeRon said:

I would disagree, LMG are pretty fair in their criticism of most brands. Apple needs to be kept on their toes and LMG are pretty close to being taken note of by Apple, if not already, due to the channels influence.

 

Apple fans should support LMG as a better produce could result from it.

 

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Apple does not care about reviews on their products. If an issue is widespread enough then they'll make a QOL change and tout it as a feature. Even then, the magic mouse still has a downward facing lightning charge port.

 

On the topic of batteries, personally I haven't paid too much attention to battery as a spec in many phones. Its nice when a phone sports a 5000mah battery... and should if it has a size that rivals early tablets, but means nothing if the OS can't manage it. Linus has called out samsung specifically in the past for their battery draining issues, though I believe he said that its better now. Android has become much better at standby time as a whole, no longer turning phones into pocket heaters. Could apple redesign the phone to accommodate a bigger battery? Yeah, the iphone x is only slightly bigger than the 8/SE and has over double the battery size. If you do that, the phone price increases and defeats the purpose. At that rate you may as well get an XR.

[lewdicrous]

Just now, vetali said:

Even then, the magic mouse still has a downward facing lightning charge port.

That's a QOL feature though, it's them telling you to take a break from your computer. /s

[Zodiark1593]

17 minutes ago, NineEyeRon said:

I can attest with Pokemon Go and my iPhone 7. 
 

I am looking at the SE and will definitely consider the battery life as part of the decision.

 

My trusty 7 is still chugging along nicely thanks to Apple downclocking it for me. From personal experience Apple should have been applauded for “slowing” older phones.

Ehh, I’m neutral about the downclocking debacle. Better the phone work at all than to become unstable because the battery can’t hold voltage under load. I think they (Apple) deserved a good reaming for the undersized batteries that led to the issue though.

[dizmo]

10 minutes ago, vetali said:

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Apple does not care about reviews on their products. If an issue is widespread enough then they'll make a QOL change and tout it as a feature. Even then, the magic mouse still has a downward facing lightning charge port.

 

On the topic of batteries, personally I haven't paid too much attention to battery as a spec in many phones. Its nice when a phone sports a 5000mah battery... and should if it has a size that rivals early tablets, but means nothing if the OS can't manage it. Linus has called out samsung specifically in the past for their battery draining issues, though I believe he said that its better now. Android has become much better at standby time as a whole, no longer turning phones into pocket heaters. Could apple redesign the phone to accommodate a bigger battery? Yeah, the iphone x is only slightly bigger than the 8/SE and has over double the battery size. If you do that, the phone price increases and defeats the purpose. At that rate you may as well get an XR.

I don't think that was so much Samsung as some app he was using. Otherwise it'd be widely reported.

[RejZoR]

29 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

 

For the performance you get, the A13 is extremely efficient. But when you’re running the thing full tilt, it can devour battery life at a rapid pace. For heavy users, a lesser battery will die out pretty quickly. 

It seems you missed the part where I talked about A13 being downclocked. And when you downclock things that are already incredibly efficient even at full tilt, you realize that 1800mAh battery maybe isn't all that small.

[Suika]

58 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned that while it's using latest A13 Bionic chip, the chip itself is downclocked a bit. Which means it's not as fast as iPhone 11. This was revealed quite some time ago so it's a bit weird it wasn't included.

If Apple is willing to confuse consumers by not differentiating the A13 Bionic in the iPhone SE, then I don't see how it's LTT's fault for not realizing or even specifying. For who this device targets, however, it might as well not even matter because the chip is so ridiculously powerful for a mobile processor anyway.

58 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

So, pairing seemingly small 1800mAh battery with DOWNCLOCKED super efficient A13 Bionic, aggressive iOS app management and those 1800mAh becomes far from "garbage".

I'll agree with the comment that it's unfair to accuse the iPhone SE (2020) of having a poor battery life, I would argue that it's quite average, though a bit worse than other budget devices, but I will disagree all day with the idea that including the newer A13 Bionic makes it leaps and bounds better than the iPhone 8. Realistically, battery life between the two devices is about the same, and you harped on a point that ultimately doesn't mean that much.

 

The only real argument to be made against the battery, in my opinion, is how much more pronounced the effects of an aged battery will be.

[RejZoR]

@Suika

I mean, while it would be cool to have full fledged A13 in it, the moment I heard it's 1800mAh battery, I knew they'd have to do something about the clock of A13 to compensate for that long before anything official was released about it. MKBHD also mentioned that in his review which was several days ago. It's why I find it weird that Linus didn't know about it.

[Zodiark1593]

28 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

It seems you missed the part where I talked about A13 being downclocked. And when you downclock things that are already incredibly efficient even at full tilt, you realize that 1800mAh battery maybe isn't all that small.

There a decisive source on this? I’m rather curious as to how it’s clocked if true. The slightly reduced benchmark scores could very well be attributed to RAM (memory compression?) rather than clocks. 

[3 Lions]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

No wonder people call you guys "Apple haters"

Oh, not this again...

[RasmusDC]

to be honest i will ask my workplace, to replace my iphone 11 Pro with the SE, i hate the Face unlock, and the missing thumb unlock key. the only good thing about it is the camera. 

 

also love to actually get simple things, like alarm indicator back, which i use a lot, easier access to calculator and stuff that is just multiple clicks because of the use of phones edges for certain things that needs the home button.

 

i miss my iphone 7 ... which still works, but has been replace because of battery degradation.. our company forces us to update if battery lifetime is low.

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

The thing is, why should it even be mentioned? The chips nowadays are so powerful that you would, under no circumstances, ever feel the (presumably even small) difference in clock speed anyway. The only way to notice the slightly "downgraded" performance is in benchmarks. A phone is meant to be used, and running benchmarks all day is not a use case that I've heard of. The only thing that would justify mentioning it would be an actually decreased user experience, which is not given.

Because of electrical physics? When you take a chip that's super efficient even when running at full speed, you take that and downclock it which usually means you're allowed to also undervolt it. If A13 in iPhone 11 runs at sweet spot of power/performance, the one in iPhone SE 2020 runs at insane bias towards power efficiency while still providing sufficient performance for current time. Which consequentially affects how that small capacity battery gets hammered. I can safely say A13 at lower clocks is far more power efficient than whatever chip was originally running in iPhone 8. And if iPhone 8 had sufficient capacity at same rated battery, iPhone SE 2020 will have it too for sure. That's why it makes it damn relevant. Instead of just going "Uh oh, it's just 1800mAh battery, omfg what a garbage".

 

And what's more painful is that I'm only speculating this based on things I know about devices and how they behave through generations and time. They actually held the phone in hands and weren't bothered to fully charge it and use it for 1 day. Just 1 day.

 

@Zodiark1593

I don't know the specifics, but I've seen a benchmark comparing SE 2020 to entire iPhone 11 range and difference was quite significant. I don't think only RAM speed if there is any difference there would affect it to such degree. The difference was quite big, but still fast enough to be considered "modern" for today's standards (performance is still above A12 bionic at its full performance). I mean, we all know how RX Vega or R9 Fury behaved when they were operating at slightly lower clocks or voltages. Power consumption drop was significant for a not that big drop. I'd say it's similar here. They lower parameters a bit and gain significant power efficiency gain.

 

@LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo

Yeah, your username checks out alright...

[3 Lions]

1 minute ago, RejZoR said:

Yeah, your username checks out alright...

Why is it everyone else can handle constructive criticism yet when it comes to Apple it's a totally different story? 

[lewdicrous]

25 minutes ago, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

Why is it everyone else can handle constructive criticism yet when it comes to Apple it's a totally different story? 

Apparently papa Apple can't do anything wrong..

[actually-light]

5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Because of electrical physics? When you take a chip that's super efficient even when running at full speed, you take that and downclock it which usually means you're allowed to also undervolt it. If A13 in iPhone 11 runs at sweet spot of power/performance, the one in iPhone SE 2020 runs at insane bias towards power efficiency while still providing sufficient performance for current time. Which consequentially affects how that small capacity battery gets hammered. I can safely say A13 at lower clocks is far more power efficient than whatever chip was originally running in iPhone 8. And if iPhone 8 had sufficient capacity at same rated battery, iPhone SE 2020 will have it too for sure. That's why it makes it damn relevant. Instead of just going "Uh oh, it's just 1800mAh battery, omfg what a garbage".

 

And what's more painful is that I'm only speculating this based on things I know about devices and how they behave through generations and time. They actually held the phone in hands and weren't bothered to fully charge it and use it for 1 day. Just 1 day.

You'll note that in the video, they acknowledge that it's battery life is actually adequate for most people's light-to- medium usage. It's impressive that apple managed to make such a shitty battery usable in 2020.

 

That doesn't make an 1800mah anything other than tiny, though. You can get android phones with 4,000 mah batteries for $160 these days. The only other smartphone with a <= 2000mah battery released in 2020 is the blu studio x9, an entry-level device from a budget brand, and that's a 2000 mah battery. The only thing the iPhone SE's battery competes with are feature phones.

 

1800 mah is hilariously small. If it were in anything other than an incredibly optimized phone, it wouldn't be usable. Even in what is probably the most battery-efficient smartphone released in years, it's only mediocre. Like, can you imagine what the battery life of the SE would be if it had a 3 or 4000 mah battery?

 

Maybe in a few years apple will reuse the iPhone 11 chassis or something and we'll get a 3000 mah battery in an SE.

 

I don't see why you're so caught up on the criticism of the battery, anyways. The video is flat-out recommending the phone to anyone who doesn't need all-day screen on time. Short circuit's review of the iPhone SE is pretty consistent with what other reviews are saying: the battery life is meh and the camera doesn't have the latest features, but it's still a great phone.

[RejZoR]

6 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

Apparently papa Apple can't do anything wrong..

Seems more like papa Linus can't do anything wrong...

[3 Lions]

1 minute ago, RejZoR said:

Seems more like papa Linus can't do anything wrong...

No, more like you just need to grow up and stop sucking up to your sickly sweet brand preference that is Apple and accept they and their products are NOT perfect. 

[lewdicrous]

9 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Seems more like papa Linus can't do anything wrong...

I criticize them when they deserve to be criticized.

I'm not gonna be on my knees pleasing companies and defending them from everything that's said about them just cause I like their products.