Apple launches the iPhone SE "2"

[GAME 55]

18 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

It would have taken absolutely minimal redesign to shrink the top and bottom bezels at least by half while maintaining the exact same frame/internals/home button etc. They sell the whole thing as a top assembly as is. An S7 fit a 5.1 inch screen in that form-factor with a front home button. Even with huge bezels of its own.

 

I don't think those excuses are valid. Apple just doesn't care and people will buy it regardless. 

Does anyone here like the design of the iPhone 6 and its Home Button?

 

Because seriously, everybody on this thread complains about the bezels, it is a part of the success of the iPhone SE (or at least the idea, or one of the ideas it was made for) is to be cheap, and to look like the OG, before the OG really gets forgotten, think about it for a second, the Original iPhone SE looked like the iPhone 5S, but with all the specs that the iPhone 6S offered except the screen and the battery, the iPhone SE (2020) doesn't offer iPhone 11 Pro specs, but it is similar in style with the 6 and the 7 and the 8, I expect the same when Apple makes a new design, there will be an SE that looks like the X and XS and 11 / 11 Pro (notch-design), so -in my opinion- you should enjoy this design, before you don't see it again anymore in any smartphone.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

You can still use NeuralCam app which makes superb night time photos when you hardly have any light available, probably about as good as official Apple's Night Mode. I'm using it on my XR which also doesn't have Night Mode.

Good to know.

Still think it sucks if they have neutered it. I get that it would be weird for their low-end device (SE) to have features their mid-range device (Xr) doesn't, but there is no technical reason for it. It's literally just a bit of code, which is already written.

[Curufinwe_wins]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

What are you on about?

This phone is great. I really don't get why you are so against it. From what I've seen from your posts these seem to be your biggest complains:

1) The iPhone Xr is a better buy. I don't agree. I don't think the Xr offers that much more, and it is far more expensive (600 dollars vs 400 dollars, which means it's 50% more expensive).

 

2) It has a too powerful SoC for the form factor. I have no idea why you think this way, and I think your car analogies are extremely flawed. Will it throttle if you run it at 100% load for a long period of time? Most likely yeah, but just because it throttles when you push it to the limit doesn't mean the peak performance is wasted. The A13 is fantastic in this device because it offers high burst performance, which is really important for everyday use. I can tell you straight away that I rarely push my phone to the max for more than a couple of seconds at a time, and I believe most people are the same way. Besides, the A13 is fantastic when it comes to efficiency and thermals anyway. There literally isn't a better chip they could have put in this phone. Stop complaining about getting higher performance than maybe necessary. You're getting it "for free". It's like being upgraded to first class on an airplane and you go "wow this sucks, I have more leg space than I need now".

 

3) The screen isn't that big for the body size. Well, that's something you have to compromise on to get to this price point. I am sure a lot of people won't mind a smaller screen and screen:body ratio if it means saving a couple of hundred dollars.

The iPhone SE is still significantly smaller than the Xr by the way.

iPhone Xr = 95cm³

iPhone SE = 68cm³

 

The Xr is almost 40% larger than the SE.

It's also more than 30% heavier.

The screen is 48% larger on the Xr.

I'm not against the phone. (Again, I literally already told the one person in my life who this makes sense, not the below mentioned person, it exists and for them makes sense.) 

 

I'm also not screaming its praises. If you were going to buy an iPhone 8 new, buy this instead. Duh. Not that a new iPhone 8 was an actually a smart buy for most consumers... But that is really the crux of the issue I guess.

 

I think the only thing this device has over the iPhone 8 is the ONLY thing the iPhone 8 didn't need improvements on. That's my complaint, pure and simple. Even something (hypothetical) like throwing in a 4.7" 120Hz LCD at least would have something really useful to offer, and at least make some argument for the SOC change, but I've never heard a single person ever complain the iPhone 8 is too slow, and I do actually tell people with 845/855 stuff that you won't notice any difference and it isn't worth it to swap to an 865 phone (for just that reason). It just is more than almost anyone needs. It's like 16GB of ram on a phone. Does it hurt? Technically not, but it sure as heck shouldn't be considered as a serious selling point since it can (and should) never be used in any meaningful way that is different than a phone with say 8GB of ram.

Spoiler

 

1. The XR is available new for 500 right now. I don't think list price is helpful when you are half way through a generation and almost nothing is at list price (11/8/XR or otherwise). 40% bigger screen is automatically worth that, like actually though. 4.7" is a really poor media (even book) experience. Again, it wasn't competitive in 2016 even. As I was reminded of watching my (insanely subborn) mom read books over the holiday on that 7. One paragraph at a time, maximum. Regardless, I always push people I know to consider the new-used market. Older mint flagships are almost always the best deals, and here getting an iPhone X or XS on the secondary market for 400-450 is definitely a better buy IMO.

 

2. See above, but here is the crux. There is nothing "useful" even in burst that this phone could try to do that would peak the device, and even if it could that temp creep would be terrifyingly bad. Almost no one ever intentionally/needfully pushes their devices to max, which was my point of the complaint anyways. It's getting a free 2080ti to go along with your 720p gaming monitor. Like yay? But you are basically never going to use it, and you can't just buy something else. I'm not complaining it has the A13. I'm complaining the ONLY thing is has is the A13, and the A13 is useless and pointless for this device.

Quote

If we break this down a bit and theorize a bit, if we take the XS Max 10.31H result, multiply by 1.25x for the increased battery capacity (12.88H), multiply again naively by 1.15x for the more efficient screen (14.82H), we’re left with a ~5% margin which would account for the more efficient SoC. Give or take margin of error here or there, the results we’re seeing shouldn’t be all too surprising. The math would also check out for the iPhone 11 without a newer display: 5% increased battery capacity and an on average ~3% more efficient SoC.

From Anandtechs review, sorry if I don't go oogling all over for a 5% more efficient SOC during light use.

 

3. Something you have to compromise on to get to this price point? That is bullshit. Actual bullshit. Talked about before, but what other "flagship killer" or "midrange budget device" not from Apple stuck you with such a shittastic screen?

 

Also your reported dimensions are not right. Device dimensions, the iPhone 8 is 93.14 cm2, the XR is 114.23. It is a 23% larger device, with a 40% larger screen. But suppose you hate the XR. I think the a new-used X/XS as mentioned previous is another much more appealing option. That is a 109% larger device (whopping 3mm difference in both directions), with a 35% larger screen. Your weight comments are true, and also not something I think anyone should be concerning themselves with. It would be a more useful device to have a iPhone 8 that added that bit of thickness back and made itself heavier for even more battery than it is being 'light'.

 

 

[Guest willies leg]

It'll be interesting to see how this compares to the Pixel 4a coming out soon. Great to have these low cost options!

[StDragon]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Good to know.

Still think it sucks if they have neutered it. I get that it would be weird for their low-end device (SE) to have features their mid-range device (Xr) doesn't, but there is no technical reason for it. It's literally just a bit of code, which is already written.

It's called market segmentation. Intel does it too. Their internal sales and market metrics dictate that it's overall more profitable to stratify a number of products at different price-points. So while Apple could just develop one single iPhone model that does it all, and it would be somewhat lower cost due to scale of economies in production, the net profit would be lower.

 

If they were honest about it, Apple would leave the feature available to unlock with a license fee. 

[GAME 55]

59 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

I think the only thing this device has over the iPhone 8 is the ONLY thing the iPhone 8 didn't need improvements on. That's my complaint, pure and simple. Even something (hypothetical) like throwing in a 4.7" 120Hz LCD at least would have something really useful to offer, and at least make some argument for the SOC change, but I've never heard a single person ever complain the iPhone 8 is too slow

I personally would favor from a better SoC, because i usually play games on my phone, but i think that is not for everybody, so fair point there, though, I don't really care about the camera that much until it is a complete potato (it is not, it is just kinda outdated by modern standards because it is a single-camera setup), and i also don't care about a lot of stuff about my phone if it is decent, and I play a lot of games on my phone, so the iPhone SE is going to be ideal for me, I really like that something like this exists, it is like a sleeper phone, iPhone 8 from the outside, iPhone 11 Pro from inside!

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 minute ago, GAME 55 said:

I personally would favor from a better SoC, because i usually play games on my phone, but i think that is not for everybody, so fair point there, though, I don't really care about the camera that much until it is a complete potato (it is not, it is just kinda outdated by modern standards because it is a single-camera setup), and i also don't care about a lot of stuff about my phone if it is decent, and I play a lot of games on my phone, so the iPhone SE is going to be ideal for me, I really like that something like this exists, it is like a sleeper phone, iPhone 8 from the outside, iPhone 11 Pro from inside!

With such a small resolution, the A11 in the iPhone 8 was never stressed while gaming afaik? Remember it is the same SOC on the 

2,436x1,125 iPhone X, but with only a 1334x750 display here.

 

Ofc if there actually are mobile games where the A11 isn't good enough on the iPhone8s tiny display, feel free to correct me there.

 

(iPhone X had 2.75x the pixels, but the same SOC and was still a quite decent gaming phone.)

 

[ZestyJalapeno]

A13 is a great chip and should be the UVP that sells this to people looking for a mid range killer. Literally everything that a phone does as a daily driver is helped to no end by a great chip. 

 

1) Battery life

2) games

3) camera

4) video chats (especially important since that's how we're gonna interact with our non-households for the next year until COVID vaccine, both for work and personal reasons)

5) productivity 

 

[Curufinwe_wins]

7 minutes ago, Dogeystyle said:

A13 is a great chip and should be the UVP that sells this to people looking for a mid range killer. Literally everything that a phone does as a daily driver is helped to no end by a great chip. 

 

1) Battery life

2) games

3) camera

4) video chats (especially important since that's how we're gonna interact with our non-households for the next year until COVID vaccine, both for work and personal reasons)

5) productivity 

 

1. Anandtech saw 5% improvement in normal usage efficiency with A13. Not nothing, but not.. "no end".

2. If the A11 in the 8 wasn't having problems keeping up with games, this isn't going to improve the experience there either. These phones don't have variable or higher refresh rates to use the extra power.

3. Both the A11 and A13 have neural core modules, even if of different generations, and this device maintains the old optics and sensor, so its dubious to claim it will make a big (or even noticeable) difference there.

4. No. This does not change 1 bit from the SOC. Not even a tiny amount.

5. Again, if the old SOC wasn't struggling one bit, adding more doesn't magically make this different. You can't do serious productivity work on a 4.7" screen.

 

 

Seriously, I don't hate this phone. But it's stuff like the above that forces me to actually act as a counter to a severe overhype machine.

[GAME 55]

30 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

1. Anandtech saw 5% improvement in normal usage efficiency with A13. Not nothing, but not.. "no end".

2. If the A11 in the 8 wasn't having problems keeping up with games, this isn't going to improve the experience there either. These phones don't have variable or higher refresh rates to use the extra power.

3. Both the A11 and A13 have neural core modules, even if of different generations, and this device maintains the old optics and sensor, so its dubious to claim it will make a big (or even noticeable) difference there.

4. No. This does not change 1 bit from the SOC. Not even a tiny amount.

5. Again, if the old SOC wasn't struggling one bit, adding more doesn't magically make this different. You can't do serious productivity work on a 4.7" screen.

 

 

Seriously, I don't hate this phone. But it's stuff like the above that forces me to actually act as a counter to a severe overhype machine.

I found a solution on that debate, and I have an end on the controversy, do you know the Super lineup from NVIDIA, well the 2020 iPhone SE is completely the same.

 

Apple trying to give us more value in the iPhone 8 by upgrading its processor.

While it might be useless or overkill (according to this thread, though I still believe that more processing power for free won't hurt) it is free performance at the same price, also while it is a bummer that one of Apple "expected to be released" phones isn't really for everyone (I actually thought a lot of people would like the new iPhone SE, though that thread shows the complete opposite of that), and that it is just a more overkill iPhone 8.

 

Actually, according to what I know from benchmarks*, the iPhone 8 is more powerful than the iPhone X, which is crazy!

 

*I am not completely sure.

[ZestyJalapeno]

58 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

1. Anandtech saw 5% improvement in normal usage efficiency with A13. Not nothing, but not.. "no end".

2. If the A11 in the 8 wasn't having problems keeping up with games, this isn't going to improve the experience there either. These phones don't have variable or higher refresh rates to use the extra power.

3. Both the A11 and A13 have neural core modules, even if of different generations, and this device maintains the old optics and sensor, so its dubious to claim it will make a big (or even noticeable) difference there.

4. No. This does not change 1 bit from the SOC. Not even a tiny amount.

5. Again, if the old SOC wasn't struggling one bit, adding more doesn't magically make this different. You can't do serious productivity work on a 4.7" screen.

 

 

Seriously, I don't hate this phone. But it's stuff like the above that forces me to actually act as a counter to a severe overhype machine.

1. Compared to what reference?

 

2. You're seriously saying that having the fastest chip available on a phone isn't going to improve the gaming experience. Okay, if I take an iphone 8 at 50% battery, and this new SE at 50% battery. I then go on a train journey with no outlets and load up COD to play online, the extension in battery life is something that I would call an improvement to my gaming experience.

 

3. 2-3 years from now, the difference will be very apparent. I can use this example because Apple devices do stay relevant many years after their release, and the new feature releases will slow a phone down, more so in the process of what people do with their smartphone cameras. Opening the camera app > loading up Instagram (or TikTok or whatever), then selecting that photo, then applying filters, then processing, then uploading. A faster chip will help as some people will be doing this at 5% battery just as some will be doing it at 95%. Getting that upload done might be the difference between getting those insta-likes now vs. having to wait to charge and missing out. This may seem vapid, but that is the overwhelming use case of a phone camera. 

 

4. I would argue it will, for the same reason in my 2nd point.

 

5. I take content using a DSLR and regularly edit those using lightroom and photoshop ( edit; Premier) on the go for work, in situations where I can't use my laptop. This content goes towards making my deadlines, therefore I'll happily consider it as "Serious productivity work". (You can make the argument that the screen quality, not size is the most important thing in this use case, but I trust Apple's consistent colour work, purely because my clients also use Apple devices on the majority)

 

What I meant by "no end", is that everything the phone does that requires processing power is improved by the new chip, not endless performance gains on every benchmark. That would indeed be silly, unless you're upgrading from the old SE (which came out at the same price), then the difference will be night and day.

[Zodiark1593]

27 minutes ago, Dogeystyle said:

1. Compared to what reference?

 

2. You're seriously saying that having the fastest chip available on a phone isn't going to improve the gaming experience. Okay, if I take an iphone 8 at 50% battery, and this new SE at 50% battery. I then go on a train journey with no outlets and load up COD to play online, the extension in battery life is something that I would call an improvement to my gaming experience.

 

3. 2-3 years from now, the difference will be very apparent. I can use this example because Apple devices do stay relevant many years after their release, and the new feature releases will slow a phone down, more so in the process of what people do with their smartphone cameras. Opening the camera app > loading up Instagram (or TikTok or whatever), then selecting that photo, then applying filters, then processing, then uploading. A faster chip will help as some people will be doing this at 5% battery just as some will be doing it at 95%. Getting that upload done might be the difference between getting those insta-likes now vs. having to wait to charge and missing out. This may seem vapid, but that is the overwhelming use case of a phone camera. 

 

4. I would argue it will, for the same reason in my 2nd point.

 

5. I take content using a DSLR and regularly edit those using lightroom and photoshop ( edit; Premier) on the go for work, in situations where I can't use my laptop. This content goes towards making my deadlines, therefore I'll happily consider it as "Serious productivity work". (You can make the argument that the screen quality, not size is the most important thing in this use case, but I trust Apple's consistent colour work, purely because my clients also use Apple devices on the majority)

 

What I meant by "no end", is that everything the phone does that requires processing power is improved by the new chip, not endless performance gains on every benchmark. That would indeed be silly, unless you're upgrading from the old SE (which came out at the same price), then the difference will be night and day.

I edit photos (Canon G7x mkII) on my phone too, so SoC performance does matter to me quite a lot. 
 

However, the SE 2 has other deficiencies that would probably not have me recommending it easily. The battery size is one such (pretty major) factor. Even with the A13, editing high resolution RAWs works our devices pretty hard, so a large battery can take the hit and still keep going. The iPhone SE 2 has a <2000 mAh size, which will hinder it’s effectiveness for productivity tasks. 
 

The XR has a battery size much closer to 3000 mAh, so it’s likely that you may get more work done on a single charge than the SE 2, even with a modest step down in performance. 

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, willies leg said:

It'll be interesting to see how this compares to the Pixel 4a coming out soon. Great to have these low cost options!

I suspect the Pixel 4a will have some camera advantages since the SE is still using an older sensor, but Apple will absolutely clobber Google in performance.  The A13 outperforms the Snapdragon 865 as a general rule, let alone the mid-tier Snapdragon the Pixel 4a is expected to use.

 

The mystery to me is battery life.  I know the Pixel 3a has healthy battery life, but I'm curious to see how the A13 improves longevity compared to the A11 from the iPhone 8.

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 hour ago, Dogeystyle said:

1. Compared to what reference?

 

2. You're seriously saying that having the fastest chip available on a phone isn't going to improve the gaming experience. Okay, if I take an iphone 8 at 50% battery, and this new SE at 50% battery. I then go on a train journey with no outlets and load up COD to play online, the extension in battery life is something that I would call an improvement to my gaming experience.

 

3. 2-3 years from now, the difference will be very apparent. I can use this example because Apple devices do stay relevant many years after their release, and the new feature releases will slow a phone down, more so in the process of what people do with their smartphone cameras. Opening the camera app > loading up Instagram (or TikTok or whatever), then selecting that photo, then applying filters, then processing, then uploading. A faster chip will help as some people will be doing this at 5% battery just as some will be doing it at 95%. Getting that upload done might be the difference between getting those insta-likes now vs. having to wait to charge and missing out. This may seem vapid, but that is the overwhelming use case of a phone camera. 

 

4. I would argue it will, for the same reason in my 2nd point.

 

5. I take content using a DSLR and regularly edit those using lightroom and photoshop ( edit; Premier) on the go for work, in situations where I can't use my laptop. This content goes towards making my deadlines, therefore I'll happily consider it as "Serious productivity work". (You can make the argument that the screen quality, not size is the most important thing in this use case, but I trust Apple's consistent colour work, purely because my clients also use Apple devices on the majority)

 

What I meant by "no end", is that everything the phone does that requires processing power is improved by the new chip, not endless performance gains on every benchmark. That would indeed be silly, unless you're upgrading from the old SE (which came out at the same price), then the difference will be night and day.

1. Was compared to the A12 at that time (web use, so very light)

 

2. Yes, I am saying that. If a game runs maxed out at X resolution at X framerate, all setting sliders with a 2060, swapping it with a 2080ti does not improve the experience. The extension in battery life is a potential improvement yes. Which would need quantification, though again... gaming experience would probably be better on a larger screened device, or certainly one with a much bigger battery (reminder this device is only like 1800 mAh.)

 

3. No, it still won't be. And if you are that vapid of a user, you won't be buying a 400 dollar phone with a tiny screen and a less impressive front/rear camera setup. 

 

4. So much no. Video calls are not suddenly going to take significantly more performance when camera stays the same, when we are already using end to end encryption (which together with randomly swapping video codec could hypothetically be a thing, but it won't be), etc etc.

 

5. If you are a professional, making professional money using your phone to do professional work where the difference between an A13 and A11 is at all noticable, you can and should invest in an iPhone 11/Pro/Pro Max. Way larger batteries, larger and better screens etc etc. The 8 has a very good, but very small LCD. The OLEDs Apple puts into their actual flagships are an entire other class of amazing stuff. HDR mastering; double the battery capacity; etc

[Sauron]

26 minutes ago, Dogeystyle said:

I then go on a train journey with no outlets and load up COD to play online, the extension in battery life is something that I would call an improvement to my gaming experience.

If games like cod and video/photo editing are a big part of your phone usage then maybe a 4.7" screen isn't the best choice for you.

[Curufinwe_wins]

53 minutes ago, GAME 55 said:

I found a solution on that debate, and I have an end on the controversy, do you know the Super lineup from NVIDIA, well the 2020 iPhone SE is completely the same.

 

Apple trying to give us more value in the iPhone 8 by upgrading its processor.

While it might be useless or overkill (according to this thread, though I still believe that more processing power for free won't hurt) it is free performance at the same price, also while it is a bummer that one of Apple "expected to be released" phones isn't really for everyone (I actually thought a lot of people would like the new iPhone SE, though that thread shows the complete opposite of that), and that it is just a more overkill iPhone 8.

 

Actually, according to what I know from benchmarks*, the iPhone 8 is more powerful than the iPhone X, which is crazy!

 

*I am not completely sure.

The Super was a reaction to the competition with AMD. Apple doesn't have competition except with itself.

 

Obviously, if you wanted an iPhone 8, getting a SE with better (certainly unlikely to be worse) internals for cheaper is always a nice treat. Absolutely. But would I take an iPhone 8 for 300 (or even 350) over this SE2? Yes, yes I would. Because the internal difference is functionally irrelevant to the basically all of same user base that is ok with a tiny screen and isn't willing to pay for the 11 or XR.

 

This part change is honestly the least possible compelling upgrade Apple could do to make it a 'new' device, that is disappointing. Not awful, not outside of Apple's right. But disappointing. I probably am coming off more angry than I am, but the reaction (as far as it does exist) is not against the device, or Apple, but against the users who go crazy for this. That's all really.

[GAME 55]

1 minute ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

The Super was a reaction to the competition with AMD. Apple doesn't have competition except with itself.

 

Obviously, if you wanted an iPhone 8, getting a 8 with better internals for cheaper is always a nice treat. Absolutely. But would I take an iPhone 8 for 300 (or even 350) over this SE2? Yes, yes I would. Because the internal difference is functionally irrelevant to the basically all of same user base that is ok with a tiny screen and isn't willing to pay for the 11 or XR.

 

This part change is honestly the least possible compelling upgrade Apple could do to make it a 'new' device, that is disappointing. Not awful, not outside of Apple's right. But disappointing. I probably am coming off more angry than I am, but the reaction (as far as it does exist) is not against the device, or Apple, but against the users who go crazy for this. That's all really.

I guess I understand now why you guys are upset now (and believe it or not I kinda got a little bit mad after understanding this whole thing), I was actually going crazy about it, because I like RAW POWAAA!!! And, I would easily deal with a good but not excellent camera and I would -of course- get the small screen no problem (I really like the iPhone 6 style, and I will really miss it when it is gone), but also even when i first saw it, I felt this thing is going to become controversial, because one of Apple "new" phones is an improved iPhone 8, and it is not even well-improved, though I am (if you didn't notice yet) a big big big fan of Apple's iPhone 6 design, the bezels along with the earpiece and front camera design and the home button are just..... ABSOLUTELY AWESOME! And, I will miss them, so allow me to like this phone lol.

 

All in all, you have a point, after I cleaned my glasses and refocused my vision, now I know that the SE is the 8 with the A13 Chipset, I thought the SE was built from the ground-up, since I didn't know what is the specs for the iPhone 8, I understand now why you are upset, I am kinda upset too now.

 

 

[StDragon]

https://browser.geekbench.com/ios-benchmarks

 

Metal is the API equivalent of DirectX in iOS. When it comes to game performance, the Metal benchmark is the one to look at as that includes GPU. The single or multi-threaded CPU benchmarks are more applicable to standard applications and ability to multi-task.

[RejZoR]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Good to know.

Still think it sucks if they have neutered it. I get that it would be weird for their low-end device (SE) to have features their mid-range device (Xr) doesn't, but there is no technical reason for it. It's literally just a bit of code, which is already written.

I was bummed at first when I installed iOS 13 and couldn't find it, but then I found NeuralCam through some news as they were hyping it and it really is good. Tried it in a room where I barely had any light and I could hardly see anything and NeuralCam made a bright clear image out of it. It still doesn't work in absolute darkness, but if there is just some sort of minor light source it'll make the photos. There was also short period of time when this app was paid and free version had only few features, but they unlocked it entirely and now it's full featured for everyone.

[hishnash]

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

Metal is the API equivalent of DirectX in iOS. 

Metal is more like OpenCL + Vulkan in that its a both a display tec and a compute tec. Also its very much optimised for low power situations.

 

It has a few key features that make it quite different from other (display) apis.

1) you can issue draw calls from the gpu, without going back to the cpu.

2) each CPU thread can independently issue draw calls to the gpu without going through a global mutex

3) it is both a compute and display api so compute shaders and issue draw calls and setup render pipelines on the gpu, perfect for particle effects etc.

both of these means that the max frame-rate of a game in metal (if the engine is optimised for metal) is not based on your max single cor clock speed but rather your GPU speed. This helps iOS use a lot less power for games since it is much cheaper to run 2 cpu cors at 1GHz than run 1 core at 2GHz. 

[StDragon]

11 minutes ago, hishnash said:

Metal is more like OpenCL + Vulkan in that its a both a display tec and a compute tec.

 

This helps iOS use a lot less power for games since it is much cheaper to run 2 cpu cors at 1GHz than run 1 core at 2GHz. 

It's my limited understanding that the A series is a SoC that has both cores and GPU. Meaning, you have the CPU and GPU sections separate. I could be wrong on that however, it's possible the "GPU" is just dedicated instruction sets that are bolted onto the CPU as well. So, possible the CPU is a CPU when needed, but the GPU is just CPU + extra GPU instruction sets? If the latter, that would make sense having Metal configured the way it is.

[dalekphalm]

5 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

-snip-

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1. The XR is available new for 500 right now. I don't think list price is helpful when you are half way through a generation and almost nothing is at list price (11/8/XR or otherwise). 40% bigger screen is automatically worth that, like actually though. 4.7" is a really poor media (even book) experience. Again, it wasn't competitive in 2016 even. As I was reminded of watching my (insanely subborn) mom read books over the holiday on that 7. One paragraph at a time, maximum. Regardless, I always push people I know to consider the new-used market. Older mint flagships are almost always the best deals, and here getting an iPhone X or XS on the secondary market for 400-450 is definitely a better buy IMO.

 

2. See above, but here is the crux. There is nothing "useful" even in burst that this phone could try to do that would peak the device, and even if it could that temp creep would be terrifyingly bad. Almost no one ever intentionally/needfully pushes their devices to max, which was my point of the complaint anyways. It's getting a free 2080ti to go along with your 720p gaming monitor. Like yay? But you are basically never going to use it, and you can't just buy something else. I'm not complaining it has the A13. I'm complaining the ONLY thing is has is the A13, and the A13 is useless and pointless for this device.

From Anandtechs review, sorry if I don't go oogling all over for a 5% more efficient SOC during light use.

 

3. Something you have to compromise on to get to this price point? That is bullshit. Actual bullshit. Talked about before, but what other "flagship killer" or "midrange budget device" not from Apple stuck you with such a shittastic screen?

 

Also your reported dimensions are not right. Device dimensions, the iPhone 8 is 93.14 cm2, the XR is 114.23. It is a 23% larger device, with a 40% larger screen. But suppose you hate the XR. I think the a new-used X/XS as mentioned previous is another much more appealing option. That is a 109% larger device (whopping 3mm difference in both directions), with a 35% larger screen. Your weight comments are true, and also not something I think anyone should be concerning themselves with. It would be a more useful device to have a iPhone 8 that added that bit of thickness back and made itself heavier for even more battery than it is being 'light'.

 

 

Just an FYI - I looked at iPhone XR prices in the US right now.

 

From Apple:

$599

 

From T-Mobile:

$599

 

From Sprint:

$599

 

From Verizon:

$599

 

Now, some of them offer financing for $24.99/mo or $25/mo for 2 years - $599.76 or $600.

 

Sprint has a lease option for $10/mo for 18 months. That works out to $180 for 18 months - that's actually pretty crazy. But you don't own the phone, you're leasing it. So you either have to give it back or pay the remaining balance. They will almost certainly offer leasing on the SE2 as well, so the lease option is irrelevant.

 

Newegg has the lowest price I could find, for $545 from a third party reseller "JNWDirect":

 

But that seems to be the outlier, not the norm. AND it's still more than the $500 you've said.

 

Now Amazon does have an XR for $499 - renewed - which is a fancy word for Refurbished - in other words, it's a used phone, possibly reconditioned or repaired.

 

But that's not a new phone, and is therefore not comparable to what we're talking about here.

 

If some random shops are selling the XR below market value - good for them, that's great. But the big places people buy phones from seem to be selling at List Price, which is $599 USD.

[hishnash]

34 minutes ago, StDragon said:

It's my limited understanding that the A series is a SoC that has both cores and GPU. Meaning, you have the CPU and GPU sections separate. I could be wrong on that however, it's possible the "GPU" is just dedicated instruction sets that are bolted onto the CPU as well. So, possible the CPU is a CPU when needed, but the GPU is just CPU + extra GPU instruction sets? If the latter, that would make sense having Metal configured the way it is.

they have been clear they are seperate parts of the same chip.  Metal also runs on intel's GPUs and AMDs GPUs and the mac.

 

[Curufinwe_wins]

18 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Snip

Sprint via Best Buy is offering 499 right now outright, and some cheaper monthly deals.

Boost is also offering 499, without strings (the Sprint deal above has some strings).

 

Right now anyways, yes some of the other ones I looked at previously have apparently gone back up, which is unfortunate.

 

As for refurbs/mint used market, that's in the 450 range right now for the factory unlocked variants, which yes. Is very different. Also not great choices since X and XS are also in that price range on that market. 

 

Separate, but ATT also has XR for 5 dollars a month for 30 months on new unlimited. Either way though paying the 599 is a raw deal.

[Zodiark1593]

10 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Just an FYI - I looked at iPhone XR prices in the US right now.

 

From Apple:

$599

 

From T-Mobile:

$599

 

From Sprint:

$599

 

From Verizon:

$599

 

Now, some of them offer financing for $24.99/mo or $25/mo for 2 years - $599.76 or $600.

 

Sprint has a lease option for $10/mo for 18 months. That works out to $180 for 18 months - that's actually pretty crazy. But you don't own the phone, you're leasing it. So you either have to give it back or pay the remaining balance. They will almost certainly offer leasing on the SE2 as well, so the lease option is irrelevant.

 

Newegg has the lowest price I could find, for $545 from a third party reseller "JNWDirect":

 

But that seems to be the outlier, not the norm. AND it's still more than the $500 you've said.

 

Now Amazon does have an XR for $499 - renewed - which is a fancy word for Refurbished - in other words, it's a used phone, possibly reconditioned or repaired.

 

But that's not a new phone, and is therefore not comparable to what we're talking about here.

 

If some random shops are selling the XR below market value - good for them, that's great. But the big places people buy phones from seem to be selling at List Price, which is $599 USD.

The iPhone XR has rather peculiar pricing right now. When I was buying (at Verizon), the price difference between the XR and 11 (same storage capacity) was a mere $50. Less than a 10% difference to get the A13 chip, dual cameras, slightly larger battery, and additional RAM. I wouldn’t have thought it would hold its pricing when the 11 exists.