Apple launches the iPhone SE "2"

[dalekphalm]

25 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

I mean... yes. But for a random person who hasn't told you they hate notches etc etc. Knowing that battery is 99.99% to be the limiting issue devices (since iOS support is practically forever in phone terms. The 6S and SE are still supported for crying out loud), would you honestly tell that person to buy this device for 449 over an XR for 499 just because the A13 exists? 

 

Dropping 40% screen area and generally a far higher quality display? Like that's insane.

 

If they tell you they hate face ID and want a fingerprint scanner, that is another reason I suppose, but I would first cough *Android* at them...

A lot of people are going to like the slightly smaller frame of the SE2 compared to the XR. I have the XR. My fiancée finds it too large. She has my hand-me-down 6s and has adapted to the size well. 
 

She also hates the lack of a button, and likes touchID. It has a faster SOC and better camera and battery over the 6s (or the 8 for that matter, when looking at the better efficiency on the SOC).

 

This really is a fantastic phone for a LOT of iPhone users. 
 

I think you’re significantly underestimating how many people are going to love this combination of size/form factor/performance, etc. 
 

I think Apple should eventually introduce an updated “small form factor” flagship device - which can then be a basis for a new SE style budget device. 
 

But the whole point about the SE is bare minimum changes to reuse existing manufacturing systems. This does that perfectly, and a LOT of people are going to love it. 

[Curufinwe_wins]

28 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

snip

Spoiler

 

iPhone X has effectively the same exact form factor as this device. The XR is about 10% bigger, but the X (2%) isn't. 

 

People love to say they like the performance, but I guarantee you, blind test them against fresh X/XS/11 and 99% of users won't know which is faster/newer. Even in normal use camera tests (and normal use is all that this particular phone is really going to be good at given the single lens).

 

I think people vastly underestimate how absolutely dogcrap a 4.7" screen is when you've used a phone that has actually decent sized screen in the same form factor (and price ofc). But I guess for those who never did swap to a same-factor device, they probably don't realize what they are missing. "can't miss what you never had".

 

Like, obviously my experience is anecdotal, but I've helped a lot of people swap devices (even within ecosystems), and had a very recently amusing experience when I honestly went in thinking I was going to swap my grandma into a XR or Pixel 3a (she was using an SE with big battery problems and only fitting a few words on the screen at a time), when she instantly flew over to the budget Samsung displays, loving how big and vibrant they were. Mind you, for elderly, bright/big displays are a lot more important than for most people (particularly once you have to jank up text size), but still. I think brand loyalty blinds way too many people. (including myself, that is Samsung haha, I do a good job pushing other people towards the best devices for what they want, but I'll be honest, good luck convincing me to buy a different brand of phone in the near future lol)

 

I do think that sheer inertia will make this a great seller. I'm saying it shouldn't, that's really it. Consumers shouldn't accept an actually sub-par 4+ year old design and lap it up with awestruck gratefulness. It really isn't too much to ask Apple to incorporate both touch ID and a decent sized screen. Every other phone OEM managed it.

 

Sigh, lets be real, at this point I've made my position known, I do see what you mean even if I don't agree with it, so I probably shouldn't keep stirring the pot. Moved the full comment into the spoiler after an edit. Sorry about that.

[D13H4RD]

I can definitely see this one selling pretty well. I know a lot of iPhone users didn’t go to the X-design either because they really hated the notch, the size increase or they just prefer to have a fingerprint sensor.

 

Combined with the price and how it’s essentially having the internals of an iPhone 11, this one’s a pretty damn nice deal especially if you’re after an iPhone with current specs but you either don’t want to pay a lot of money for one (and can live with the iPhone 8 design) or you loved the iPhone 8 design but wished it had the current-generation hardware.

[Zodiark1593]

10 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

  Hide contents

 

iPhone X has effectively the same exact form factor as this device. The XR is about 10% bigger, but the X (2%) isn't. 

 

People love to say they like the performance, but I guarantee you, blind test them against fresh X/XS/11 and 99% of users won't know which is faster/newer. Even in normal use camera tests (and normal use is all that this particular phone is really going to be good at given the single lens).

 

I think people vastly underestimate how absolutely dogcrap a 4.7" screen is when you've used a phone that has actually decent sized screen in the same form factor (and price ofc). But I guess for those who never did swap to a same-factor device, they probably don't realize what they are missing. "can't miss what you never had".

 

Like, obviously my experience is anecdotal, but I've helped a lot of people swap devices (even within ecosystems), and had a very recently amusing experience when I honestly went in thinking I was going to swap my grandma into a XR or Pixel 3a (she was using an SE with big battery problems and only fitting a few words on the screen at a time), when she instantly flew over to the budget Samsung displays, loving how big and vibrant they were. Mind you, for elderly, bright/big displays are a lot more important than for most people (particularly once you have to jank up text size), but still. I think brand loyalty blinds way too many people. (including myself, that is Samsung haha, I do a good job pushing other people towards the best devices for what they want, but I'll be honest, good luck convincing me to buy a different brand of phone in the near future lol)

 

I do think that sheer inertia will make this a great seller. I'm saying it shouldn't, that's really it. Consumers shouldn't accept an actually sub-par 4+ year old design and lap it up with awestruck gratefulness. It really isn't too much to ask Apple to incorporate both touch ID and a decent sized screen. Every other phone OEM managed it.

 

Sigh, lets be real, at this point I've made my position known, I do see what you mean even if I don't agree with it, so I probably shouldn't keep stirring the pot. Moved the full comment into the spoiler after an edit. Sorry about that.

SoC aside, the price is the only thing really noteworthy about the iPhone SE. To that extent, this would probably be a practical, (relatively) low cost device for businesses to adopt for employees. Outside businesses though, I’d probably have trouble recommending it over an XR. The battery life hit will do the SE no favors for practicality. Under load (especially graphical), the A13 chip gets rather hungry. 
 

Tbh, I still consider my friend’s iPhone 7 to be rather quick. For most people, a used 8 with refreshed battery will still hold it’s own. 

[GDRRiley]

well no headphone jack so my 6s and my gf 6s+ will keep being used.

Both of use use a headphone jack while charging way to much.

I do like the price and the size though.

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, BuckGup said:

You notice it for the first hour of use then it's not an issue at all. Remember the days were all TV shows and movies either had black bars on the side or you watched in stretch. That was annoying

Personally never was bothered by stretch sorta like I was never bothered by bezels. I think it is a preference thing and there are still alot of people that like the old design of iphones and this gives them an option to get that. 

[StDragon]

It's the perfect pocket size. A phone should be a phone firstly, a computer second.

 

PROS

• Size for ease of portability
• Advanced A13 SoC
• WiFi 6 (802.11ax)
• Dual-SIMS. Need a temporary number while overseas? Got you covered there.
• Longer battery life and quick charge
• NO Face ID. Perfect if you want to activate without having to look at it. That's a bonus for me when performing Apple Pay
• 5+ years or iOS updates
• The relatively low $400 price
• Can use existing iPhone 8 cases on the market? So ready to roll with cheap options there if true!

CONS

• Lower resolution and it's not OLED. Basically same as iPhone 8. Not bad at in the slightest, but it is older tech.
• Camera older tech. Enhancements are mainly software based from the looks of it.
• Limited colors. Boo! Hiss!

[SeraphicWings]

52 minutes ago, StDragon said:

It's the perfect pocket size. A phone should be a phone firstly, a computer second.

 

PROS

• Size for ease of portability
• Advanced A13 SoC
• WiFi 6 (802.11ax)
• Dual-SIMS. Need a temporary number while overseas? Got you covered there.
• Longer battery life and quick charge
• NO Face ID. Perfect if you want to activate without having to look at it. That's a bonus for me when performing Apple Pay
• 5+ years or iOS updates
• The relatively low $400 price
• Can use existing iPhone 8 cases on the market? So ready to roll with cheap options there if true!

CONS

• Lower resolution and it's not OLED. Basically same as iPhone 8. Not bad at in the slightest, but it is older tech.
• Camera older tech. Enhancements are mainly software based from the looks of it.
• Limited colors. Boo! Hiss!

Not having white color front, gold back makes me reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[FakeNSA]

9 hours ago, BuckGup said:

I think you are alone on that opinion.

Not alone!
We are a vocal minority however.

[RejZoR]

People say many things about iOS and how it's bad, but really, for me after being on Android since Eclair (Android 2.1 iirc) and dumping it after Pie (Android 9.0), the only thing that really annoys me on iOS is the fact you can't set default browser (the fact they all run Safari engine underneath doesn't really bother me all that much) and the fact that you can't send images through god damn Bluetooth. This second one annoyed me a lot more. Wanted to send a photo to my mom's phone (Samsung Wave 1) via BT because she doesn't have any internet enabled on it and all of a sudden I couldn't. Both phones have BT but you can't use it. Where on all others you can easily send a photo via BT from I don't know, just released OnePlus 8 Pro to some SymbianOS based Nokia from 300 years ago. That really annoyed me the most of all.

And that's really it. People constantly whine about customization and how iOS is all locked down, but ultimately, I don't miss any of it. It just works, it's fast and you can tweak and fiddle everything that is really necessary. And as a result it's really rock stable and issue free. Where on Android I constantly had to dick around with restarting and things kept cashing and restarting. I guess that's the tax of stuffing custom crap on top which is why Apple is avoiding it.

 

BT situation probably won't change as far as I can see, but there are talks about ability to set default browser which means they'll fix 1 out of 2 annoyances that I have with iOS. We're getting there.

 

Not being able to change launcher has really become a non issue for me. I've had many different vendors from HTC, Samsung, Huawei, Xiaomi etc and even though I often tried different launchers I always returned to stock launcher. And despite all the hate people have towards EMUI and MIUI, I actually liked them a lot. Guess which one basically inspired those. iOS. I actually don't like the stupid app drawer in Android. The grid arrangement of apps is terrible to navigate and find something actually efficiently. In this regard I actually preferred Microsoft's alphabetically ordered scrolling app list. You just flicked or dragged the thing to the starting letter of the app and it was there. Much more efficient. I think Android has an option to switch view between grid and list, but they all have list by default and it's horrendous. It might look nice, but usability is total garbage.

[StDragon]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

...the fact that you can't send images through god damn Bluetooth. This second one annoyed me a lot more. Wanted to send a photo to my mom's phone (Samsung Wave 1) via BT because she doesn't have any internet enabled on it and all of a sudden I couldn't. Both phones have BT but you can't use it. Where on all others you can easily send a photo via BT from I don't know, just released OnePlus 8 Pro to some SymbianOS based Nokia from 300 years ago. That really annoyed me the most of all.

So iPhones do use BT to transfer files via "AirDrop". Too bad interoperability with AirDrop only exists between iOS and OSX.

 

For Apple, there's no Universe outside of its walled garden.

[RedRound2]

10 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

That isn't true. The SOC doesn't need to dictate the iOS updates. The only time in the past that was true was because there was a 32-64 bit transition. There is no inherent reason whatsoever that Apple would need to drop support for the 8 before this or vise-versa. Again, Windows 10 has shipping support for CPUs that are 15 years old (official support includes Prescott P4s from 2004). 10 year old hardware (like the Q6600) can be a legitimately good experience still with 8GB of ram and an SSD.

You can't just compare a desktop OS and mobile OS. With each updates to iOS, the CPU/GPU horsepower required is much higher due to added features. Also the new chips have neural engine which is how Apple devices perform on board AI stuff, instead of off-loading everything to the cloud.

 

The reason why windows looks the same and performs the same, and is still as broken, is because Microsoft can't push windows forward in terms of minimum specs. Way too many old computers are still operational, and it's the best way to piss of huge buisnesses and customers. And we're also forgoing the fact that CPUs on PCs haven't had any meaningful bump in performace for over 7 years now. On phones however, it's a different story. Due to the generally rapid pace in hardware (phones today are at least couple of order magnitude more powerful than phones from four years ago), limited lifespan components such as battery, it's much easier to push the OS forward.

 

So yes, software updates are dependant on the SoC. And you're also forgetting the fact that SoC means 'System on a Chip', meaning it has a lot more than CPU in it. GPU, Neural engines for ML, AI, image processor, network audio, all which goes through a lot of improvements year over year.

11 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

I don't get this. I really don't. Take 50 dollars (10%) off the price of an iPhone 8, give it more SOC power than it could use before or in the future, leave all of the other issues with the device/design and it's suddenly this great amazing thing? That's just stupid. It's an incremental improvement and certainly better than doing nothing, but it isn't a 'flagship killer' nor even a good mid-budget phone unless you are totally fine with the aforementioned limitations.

 

Which in fairness, is totally in-spirit for the SE brand. But I know exactly one person I can recommend this to (NOTE: I did make that recommendation), and that person I'm trying to get to come to the darkside anyways (it will be the backup if they stay Apple).

Because it has the A13 chip which is faster than the 865, and 865 is available on phones double the price. If I had bought the iPhone 8 today, as a low cost iPhone option, I would get good hardware that would get support for 1-2 years (typical android flagship support coincidentally). Now if i buy the SE, I'm getting a phone that will be supported for 4 years, have all the new creature comforts like Express Card with power reserve for carkey support, Wifi 6, faster LTE, a much improved camera, etc, all for $50 cheaper. There's just no competition here at all, and it seems like a no brainer buy for all the old iPhone users who've been put off by the recent surge in pricing for flagships

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

BT situation probably won't change as far as I can see, but there are talks about ability to set default browser which means they'll fix 1 out of 2 annoyances that I have with iOS. We're getting there.

Nobody uses bluetooth anymore for sharing files. It's slow, unreliable and just plain sucks with all the pairing involved. You could've easily shared by creating a hotspot using your phone and letting your mum's phone connect to it. Or you could've used one of the numerous wifi direct sharing apps like ShareIt to transfer without an internet connection. Among Apple devices, it's way too easy though

[RejZoR]

9 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

You can't just compare a desktop OS and mobile OS. With each updates to iOS, the CPU/GPU horsepower required is much higher due to added features. Also the new chips have neural engine which is how Apple devices perform on board AI stuff, instead of off-loading everything to the cloud.

 

The reason why windows looks the same and performs the same, and is still as broken, is because Microsoft can't push windows forward in terms of minimum specs. Way too many old computers are still operational, and it's the best way to piss of huge buisnesses and customers. And we're also forgoing the fact that CPUs on PCs haven't had any meaningful bump in performace for over 7 years now. On phones however, it's a different story. Due to the generally rapid pace in hardware (phones today are at least couple of order magnitude more powerful than phones from four years ago), limited lifespan components such as battery, it's much easier to push the OS forward.

 

So yes, software updates are dependant on the SoC. And you're also forgetting the fact that SoC means 'System on a Chip', meaning it has a lot more than CPU in it. GPU, Neural engines for ML, AI, image processor, network audio, all which goes through a lot of improvements year over year.

Because it has the A13 chip which is faster than the 865, and 865 is available on phones double the price. If I had bought the iPhone 8 today, as a low cost iPhone option, I would get good hardware that would get support for 1-2 years (typical android flagship support coincidentally). Now if i buy the SE, I'm getting a phone that will be supported for 4 years, have all the new creature comforts like Express Card with power reserve for carkey support, Wifi 6, faster LTE, a much improved camera, etc, all for $50 cheaper. There's just no competition here at all, and it seems like a no brainer buy for all the old iPhone users who've been put off by the recent surge in pricing for flagships

Nobody uses bluetooth anymore for sharing files. It's slow, unreliable and just plain sucks with all the pairing involved. You could've easily shared by creating a hotspot using your phone and letting your mum's phone connect to it. Or you could've used one of the numerous wifi direct sharing apps like ShareIt to transfer without an internet connection. Among Apple devices, it's way too easy though

Nobody uses BT is a bold statement. It's still very much usable method when you don't want to send things through external connections. Because you either can't or don't want to (limited data outside of your country etc). Especially when it comes to older devices that are capable of displaying photo on a larger screen but don't use any of the new methods or are not compatible with new methods. Besides, I'd take BT as an option any time over not having one at all. Like, literally the only way to send things directly from my iPhone XR to Samsung Wave 1 is through my own WiFi by setting up a freaking local HTTP server on my iPhone and accessing it through Samsung Wave's browser. Talk about cumbersome idiotic methods to get over a fucking photo of a dog... Where if it just supported BT with a warning (since it's allegedly less secure) and I'd have that photo sent over to my mom's phone in few seconds. Where now, I literally can't.

[LAwLz]

10 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

-snip-

What are you on about?

This phone is great. I really don't get why you are so against it. From what I've seen from your posts these seem to be your biggest complains:

1) The iPhone Xr is a better buy. I don't agree. I don't think the Xr offers that much more, and it is far more expensive (600 dollars vs 400 dollars, which means it's 50% more expensive).

 

2) It has a too powerful SoC for the form factor. I have no idea why you think this way, and I think your car analogies are extremely flawed. Will it throttle if you run it at 100% load for a long period of time? Most likely yeah, but just because it throttles when you push it to the limit doesn't mean the peak performance is wasted. The A13 is fantastic in this device because it offers high burst performance, which is really important for everyday use. I can tell you straight away that I rarely push my phone to the max for more than a couple of seconds at a time, and I believe most people are the same way. Besides, the A13 is fantastic when it comes to efficiency and thermals anyway. There literally isn't a better chip they could have put in this phone. Stop complaining about getting higher performance than maybe necessary. You're getting it "for free". It's like being upgraded to first class on an airplane and you go "wow this sucks, I have more leg space than I need now".

 

3) The screen isn't that big for the body size. Well, that's something you have to compromise on to get to this price point. I am sure a lot of people won't mind a smaller screen and screen:body ratio if it means saving a couple of hundred dollars.

The iPhone SE is still significantly smaller than the Xr by the way.

iPhone Xr = 95cm³

iPhone SE = 68cm³

 

The Xr is almost 40% larger than the SE.

It's also more than 30% heavier.

The screen is 48% larger on the Xr.

[RedRound2]

7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Nobody uses BT is a bold statement. It's still very much usable method when you don't want to send things through external connections. Because you either can't or don't want to (limited data outside of your country etc). Especially when it comes to older devices that are capable of displaying photo on a larger screen but don't use any of the new methods or are not compatible with new methods. Besides, I'd take BT as an option any time over not having one at all. Like, literally the only way to send things directly from my iPhone XR to Samsung Wave 1 is through my own WiFi by setting up a freaking local HTTP server on my iPhone and accessing it through Samsung Wave's browser. Talk about cumbersome idiotic methods to get over a fucking photo of a dog... Where if it just supported BT with a warning (since it's allegedly less secure) and I'd have that photo sent over to my mom's phone in few seconds. Where now, I literally can't.

Did you read the wifi direct option that I was talking about? You just need to download an app on both devices for one time. Bluetooth is not used a lot, hence why nbody really complains anymore about it. And besides for larger files, it's extremely unreliable. So your case is quite a corner case. I'm not really familiar with people who are completely disconnected from the internet these days (usually most people have either home wifi, or data or both) and that's how 95% of people share these days, probably most of them through IMs

 

So, if you're desperate to not want to use a internet at all, use apps like share it. It works, ive tried

[mr moose]

I want the smaller screen size and the basic power of something like the 8 but at $750 in the kangaroo county that's a hard no from me.   That's more than a $130 above the basic currency conversion.  A little bit I can handle when you factor in economics, but not $100 more.

[RejZoR]

9 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Did you read the wifi direct option that I was talking about? You just need to download an app on both devices for one time. Bluetooth is not used a lot, hence why nbody really complains anymore about it. And besides for larger files, it's extremely unreliable. So your case is quite a corner case. I'm not really familiar with people who are completely disconnected from the internet these days (usually most people have either home wifi, or data or both) and that's how 95% of people share these days, probably most of them through IMs

 

So, if you're desperate to not want to use a internet at all, use apps like share it. It works, ive tried

And you're assuming you can just get an app for a SymbianOS phone, BadaOS, Windows Phone OS or even a feature phone? Guess what, all those are able to send between each other using "stupid" BT. Yet my 850€ "smartphone" is just a dumb brick I can't do anything with it. BT was a standard that worked across anything that had BT as well. And now we have 50 "standards" that are not compatible with each other. Wow, what a progress. I'd rather send certain things at 50KB/s than not being able to send them at all. And BT isn't even that slow anyways...

[Video Beagle]

I'm still on a 5s...been waiting for this to get official...While I wish it was using the 5s/se form, I've known since rumors began on it it was using the 8. Not going to bother pre-ordering, though. Right now, with lockdown, the 5s is still fine, and I want to see the reviews when folks actually have it in hand.

[captain_to_fire]

Looks like an iPhone my mom can upgrade to. It doesn't cost much, it has a fingerprint scanner and it's water resistant. Though I don't think it has the same rear camera as the main rear camera of the iPhone 11/11 Pro but it'll probably take much more decent photos than some other Android phones. And I can share with her iCloud and OneDrive storage.

[LAwLz]

15 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Though I don't think it has the same rear camera as the main rear camera of the iPhone 11/11 Pro but it'll probably take much more decent photos than some other Android phones.

It's not the same camera.

It does not have the full sensor dual-pixel phase detection which the 11 has. It is most likely the same sensor as the XS and iPhone 8, but with an upgraded ISP (in the A13).

Worth noting is that it seems like Apple has artificially crippled the camera to not have night-mode. At least that's what I've heard.

[RejZoR]

39 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

It's not the same camera.

It does not have the full sensor dual-pixel phase detection which the 11 has. It is most likely the same sensor as the XS and iPhone 8, but with an upgraded ISP (in the A13).

Worth noting is that it seems like Apple has artificially crippled the camera to not have night-mode. At least that's what I've heard.

You can still use NeuralCam app which makes superb night time photos when you hardly have any light available, probably about as good as official Apple's Night Mode. I'm using it on my XR which also doesn't have Night Mode.

[Hilltrot]

19 hours ago, FloRolf said:

yeah it sucks that Apples Budget option still has huge ass front bezels at all, expecially when compared to literally any other phone on the market rn that all have Notch/Punchhole or even slide camera displays.

The bezel is part of the artwork, or have you never visited an art museum?

[Hilltrot]

19 hours ago, BuckGup said:

I think you are alone on that opinion.

Nope

[GAME 55]

20 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

I’d rather have a thick front bezel than a notch/hole punch. 

I totally agree.

[GAME 55]

20 hours ago, BuckGup said:

I think you are alone on that opinion.

I am not very obsessed with bezels to the point that I prefer them over notches and punchholes, but I love the way Apple do their bezels, and I love the design of the iPhone 6 / 6S / 7 / 8 / SE (2020), I will REALLY miss it when it is gone.