Best IEMs for sound quality

[Spork829]

Hi everyone! I've been using over-ear headphones for a while now, but I can never quite escape the nasty compression headaches I get sometimes from wearing them over my glasses. It's been getting worse for whatever reason recently, so I think it's time to look at IEMs.

 

I'm willing to spend up to $100 US, maybe more but preferably below that. I don't need a built-in mic, sound isolation or any other features, just want comfort and the best possible sound quality. I do some music production and other audio work so I would ideally like them as flat as possible. What are my best options?

 

Thanks guys!

[johnny5c]

Shure 215, I have a pair and would recommend them for your budget.  Add a pair of their triple flange sleeves if you want more isolation.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=shure+se215

[Spork829]

2 hours ago, johnny5c said:

Shure 215, I have a pair and would recommend them for your budget.  Add a pair of their triple flange sleeves if you want more isolation.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=shure+se215

Looks like pretty much exactly what I want, good brand too. Thanks!

[The Flying Sloth]

1 hour ago, Spork829 said:

Looks like pretty much exactly what I want, good brand too. Thanks!

First of all, I share your pain with over-ear headphones, I prettymuch refuse to put them on at this point unless I'm in a discord call.
Now, onto business,
The Shures certainly aren't bad and are an industry standard for stage use for a reason,
BUT,
I have extensive experience with that specific set and can wholeheartedly say that just about anything from KZ rivals them in both build and sound quality. Beyond that most KZ stuff is far cheaper than the 215s to the point where it's almost worth buying them just as a beater set. Z reviews is probably the go-to for midrange audio and he speaks extremely highly of just about everything KZ makes. It's to the point where I prettymuch exclusively buy KZ inears for everything from gym earbuds to stage shows (yeah, I'm probably pretty biased by this point).

As for audio production, headphones and earphones lie, you really should be mixing on monitor speakers. I get that not everyone has access to them but there really isn't much point trying to get the flattest earphones possible if they will negatively impact your enjoyment of music while still not providing an accurate stereo image for mixing. Buy the Inears that you think will sound the best for the music that you like.

Sloth

[kokakolia]

5 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

First of all, I share your pain with over-ear headphones, I prettymuch refuse to put them on at this point unless I'm in a discord call.
Now, onto business,
The Shures certainly aren't bad and are an industry standard for stage use for a reason,
BUT,
I have extensive experience with that specific set and can wholeheartedly say that just about anything from KZ rivals them in both build and sound quality. Beyond that most KZ stuff is far cheaper than the 215s to the point where it's almost worth buying them just as a beater set. Z reviews is probably the go-to for midrange audio and he speaks extremely highly of just about everything KZ makes. It's to the point where I prettymuch exclusively buy KZ inears for everything from gym earbuds to stage shows (yeah, I'm probably pretty biased by this point).

As for audio production, headphones and earphones lie, you really should be mixing on monitor speakers. I get that not everyone has access to them but there really isn't much point trying to get the flattest earphones possible if they will negatively impact your enjoyment of music while still not providing an accurate stereo image for mixing. Buy the Inears that you think will sound the best for the music that you like.

Sloth

If this were 4 years ago I would have screamed at you in disbelief! Let me explain:

 

I bought into the KZ hype around the time the ZS5 was released. I tried several models including the ZS5, ED9, ATE, ED7, ZSE, ZSA and ES4. 

 

- Sorry, but the ZS5 and ED9 are flaming hot garbage with murder treble and boomy bass. 

- The ED7 is just fine with me but they're discontinued. IMHO, the best model KZ ever made. They don't sound like they were tuned by a deaf grandpa. 

- The ZSE is muddy trash.

- The ATE is overhyped. Yeah, the bass is fun and punchy but it stops there. The mids are so recessed that you'll crank the volume just to hear the vocals, and then the sibilant highs will murder you with cymbals. 

- The ZSA is tuned just about right, even though it's another V shape tuning. But the sibilaansssse is so very present and annoying. 

- The ES4 is probably the sweet spot. They're similar to the ATE, but the highs are cleaned up and the mids actually exist! It's still far from neutral, but at least it won't make your ears bleed. They still sound like a pair of $50 earbuds (they sell for $10), so don't get your hopes up. KZ is so hyped that they could literally sell individual bricks in fancy packaging for $10 and people would call it a bargain! But the ES4 gets a thumbs up from me. 

 

 

 

[Spork829]

9 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

First of all, I share your pain with over-ear headphones, I prettymuch refuse to put them on at this point unless I'm in a discord call.
Now, onto business,
The Shures certainly aren't bad and are an industry standard for stage use for a reason,
BUT,
I have extensive experience with that specific set and can wholeheartedly say that just about anything from KZ rivals them in both build and sound quality. Beyond that most KZ stuff is far cheaper than the 215s to the point where it's almost worth buying them just as a beater set. Z reviews is probably the go-to for midrange audio and he speaks extremely highly of just about everything KZ makes. It's to the point where I prettymuch exclusively buy KZ inears for everything from gym earbuds to stage shows (yeah, I'm probably pretty biased by this point).

As for audio production, headphones and earphones lie, you really should be mixing on monitor speakers. I get that not everyone has access to them but there really isn't much point trying to get the flattest earphones possible if they will negatively impact your enjoyment of music while still not providing an accurate stereo image for mixing. Buy the Inears that you think will sound the best for the music that you like.

Sloth

Thanks! I'll consider KZ, though cautiously considering @kokakolia's response. 

 

I agree about the frequency response as well; It's also that I love the sound of my ATH-M40X's which are pretty flat, so I want to get as close to that as possible.

 

And yeah, my living situation unfortunately doesn't really permit speakers, though that will hopefully change soon. While we're here, do you have recommendations for affordable monitors when I can get some?

[rice guru]

flat as possible I know is out of your price reange but idf you somehow stumble into like $20 more. I would consider the etymotic er2xr. altough the upper mid to lower treble humpmay bother you I find is really helpful in exposing flaws ina a track. 

but if its more a of a pleasure IEM I woudl cseriously consider the moondrop starfield one of my favorite $100 IEMs right now very fun and dynamic. 

[The Flying Sloth]

On 4/15/2020 at 4:22 AM, Spork829 said:

Thanks! I'll consider KZ, though cautiously considering @kokakolia's response. 

 

I agree about the frequency response as well; It's also that I love the sound of my ATH-M40X's which are pretty flat, so I want to get as close to that as possible.

 

And yeah, my living situation unfortunately doesn't really permit speakers, though that will hopefully change soon. While we're here, do you have recommendations for affordable monitors when I can get some?

Affordable means a very different thing in the world of studio monitors,
Behringer has somewhat of a dirty name when it comes to audio gear (doesn't really bother me but it does others) and they somewhat recently bought the British brand Tannoy who have been making reference monitors for 94 years, most stuff currently on the market for Tannoy was designed before Behringer got their hands on the company and the cheaper Reveal line is extremely well reviewed. Other brands to look out for in the low end are Yamaha and KRK who both have somewhat of a cult following (at about 150 per speaker), I just noticed some ADAM speakers going for cheap and might have to check them out too. An important thing to remember about studio monitors is that the cheaper options often only have a 5 inch speaker which isn't a bad thing in itself but in the pursuit of flat response it can limit how much bass the speaker can provide. I'm personally using an old set of Tannoy Reveal 5As (5 inch) that I love but don't have much response below 65hz which is the reason I'm moving to the newer Reveal 802 (8 inch speaker) to get another 20hz or so of bass response. In reality, big studios usually have subwoofers for mixing the low end so take that as you will. Even then most studios I know of have a nice, s***ty consumer/car surround sound system a room or two over that they use to check their mixes and make sure it sounds good on cheap speakers.

In relation to the KZ point, you don't have to take either of us at our word, check them out in reviews and see what you think.
Like I said, even if they sound like absolute shirt to you they're so cheap you really can't lose anything.

Anyway, if it ends up being a European brand you're looking at (for anything studio related) Thomann will probably end up being cheaper to order from than anywhere local to you.
Hope that helped a little

Sloth

 

[Spork829]

4 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Affordable means a very different thing in the world of studio monitors,
Behringer has somewhat of a dirty name when it comes to audio gear (doesn't really bother me but it does others) and they somewhat recently bought the British brand Tannoy who have been making reference monitors for 94 years, most stuff currently on the market for Tannoy was designed before Behringer got their hands on the company and the cheaper Reveal line is extremely well reviewed. Other brands to look out for in the low end are Yamaha and KRK who both have somewhat of a cult following (at about 150 per speaker), I just noticed some ADAM speakers going for cheap and might have to check them out too. An important thing to remember about studio monitors is that the cheaper options often only have a 5 inch speaker which isn't a bad thing in itself but in the pursuit of flat response it can limit how much bass the speaker can provide. I'm personally using an old set of Tannoy Reveal 5As (5 inch) that I love but don't have much response below 65hz which is the reason I'm moving to the newer Reveal 802 (8 inch speaker) to get another 20hz or so of bass response. In reality, big studios usually have subwoofers for mixing the low end so take that as you will. Even then most studios I know of have a nice, s***ty consumer/car surround sound system a room or two over that they use to check their mixes and make sure it sounds good on cheap speakers.

In relation to the KZ point, you don't have to take either of us at our word, check them out in reviews and see what you think.
Like I said, even if they sound like absolute shit to you they're so cheap you really can't lose anything.

Anyway, if it ends up being a European brand you're looking at (for anything studio related) Thomann will probably end up being cheaper to order from than anywhere local to you.
Hope that helped a little

Sloth

 

That all helps a lot! The monitors I've been eyeing are some older Yamahas so I'm glad to hear that would be a decent choice. Thanks!

[kokakolia]

@Spork829My opinion of KZ is quite harsh. My expectations for a headphone are somewhat atypical. I seek smooth, balanced and mellow sounding earphones (at the expense of sounding "dull" to most other people). I do like a neutral sound, but please keep the treble in check. I don't care much about hearing all of the minute details in a song, I just want to enjoy my music. 

 

Most other people seek "clarity" and "bass" (i.e. the "V" shape sound). KZ is all about that V-shape sound. You can say that these KZ earphones punch way above their weight in terms of detail, bass punch and speed. Hence the cult following. However, KZ IEMs will sound annoyingly bright, fatiguing and thin (sibilance is a common issue as well) if you're used to more neutral and mellower headphones. HOWEVER, the more recent KZ offerings tamed down the treble to acceptable levels. And the tuning, while still V-shaped remains coherent. The ES4 is good enough for me, but I wouldn't say that they blow my mind (the same way the criminally underrated KEF M100 do). 

 

Another issue with KZ (I find) are the enclosures. They're too darn huge! KZ loves to cram 2,3, 4 and even 5 speakers into one earpiece. And I can't help to wonder WHY!? The KEF M100 just straight up sounds better, with a comparatively tiny enclosure and with just one boring bog-standard neodymium driver. And you can theorize all day long how 5 drivers is impressive and should greatly reduce distorsion. But at the same time you have to coordinate these 5 drivers together so that they don't overlap and create gaps in the frequency response. And when you can get the job done with one single driver, why bother? 

 

ANSWER: having many drivers makes the spec sheet impressive. 

 

However, I did read that KZ cherry picks good components so you're getting decent drivers at the very least. Basically, a KZ product is the sum of its parts. You get exactly what you pay for and the profit margins are razor thin. But that also means that there is little effort put into customer service, R&D and fine-tuning the sound. And that's my gripe. That's what I'm trying to say.

 

But the KZ ES4 made me bite my words. It's far from perfect, but it's tuned reasonably well without any deal-breaking flaws. There have been many models since, but I haven't experienced them myself. (and I'm not willing to buy the latest KZ IEM every other month, wasting hundreds of dollars on decent, but not great IEMs).

[HumdrumPenguin]

On 4/13/2020 at 11:49 PM, Spork829 said:

Hi everyone! I've been using over-ear headphones for a while now, but I can never quite escape the nasty compression headaches I get sometimes from wearing them over my glasses. It's been getting worse for whatever reason recently, so I think it's time to look at IEMs.

 

I'm willing to spend up to $100 US, maybe more but preferably below that. I don't need a built-in mic, sound isolation or any other features, just want comfort and the best possible sound quality. I do some music production and other audio work so I would ideally like them as flat as possible. What are my best options?

 

Thanks guys!

I like very much my JVC HA-FX750, and I think you'd be happy with one. That's if 1- You can stretch your budget 2.5x-3x and 2- Can find one. I got it in a trip to South Korea, and remember many people having trouble getting the Kenwood series in western countries.

 

I'm completely ignoring your budget because I haven't heard any IEMs that are worth buying at 100 dollars, and I'm someone that would rather save a bit and get something decent than just go for cheap shit.

[Spork829]

8 hours ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

I like very much my JVC HA-FX750, and I think you'd be happy with one. That's if 1- You can stretch your budget 2.5x-3x and 2- Can find one. I got it in a trip to South Korea, and remember many people having trouble getting the Kenwood series in western countries.

 

I'm completely ignoring your budget because I haven't heard any IEMs that are worth buying at 100 dollars, and I'm someone that would rather save a bit and get something decent than just go for cheap shit.

Those do look good, but that's just too far out of my price range at least right now. Having said that, do you have any thoughts on the SE215's others have recommended?

[Spork829]

13 hours ago, kokakolia said:

@Spork829My opinion of KZ is quite harsh. My expectations for a headphone are somewhat atypical. I seek smooth, balanced and mellow sounding earphones (at the expense of sounding "dull" to most other people). I do like a neutral sound, but please keep the treble in check. I don't care much about hearing all of the minute details in a song, I just want to enjoy my music. 

 

Most other people seek "clarity" and "bass" (i.e. the "V" shape sound). KZ is all about that V-shape sound. You can say that these KZ earphones punch way above their weight in terms of detail, bass punch and speed. Hence the cult following. However, KZ IEMs will sound annoyingly bright, fatiguing and thin (sibilance is a common issue as well) if you're used to more neutral and mellower headphones. HOWEVER, the more recent KZ offerings tamed down the treble to acceptable levels. And the tuning, while still V-shaped remains coherent. The ES4 is good enough for me, but I wouldn't say that they blow my mind (the same way the criminally underrated KEF M100 do). 

 

Another issue with KZ (I find) are the enclosures. They're too darn huge! KZ loves to cram 2,3, 4 and even 5 speakers into one earpiece. And I can't help to wonder WHY!? The KEF M100 just straight up sounds better, with a comparatively tiny enclosure and with just one boring bog-standard neodymium driver. And you can theorize all day long how 5 drivers is impressive and should greatly reduce distorsion. But at the same time you have to coordinate these 5 drivers together so that they don't overlap and create gaps in the frequency response. And when you can get the job done with one single driver, why bother? 

 

ANSWER: having many drivers makes the spec sheet impressive. 

 

However, I did read that KZ cherry picks good components so you're getting decent drivers at the very least. Basically, a KZ product is the sum of its parts. You get exactly what you pay for and the profit margins are razor thin. But that also means that there is little effort put into customer service, R&D and fine-tuning the sound. And that's my gripe. That's what I'm trying to say.

 

But the KZ ES4 made me bite my words. It's far from perfect, but it's tuned reasonably well without any deal-breaking flaws. There have been many models since, but I haven't experienced them myself. (and I'm not willing to buy the latest KZ IEM every other month, wasting hundreds of dollars on decent, but not great IEMs).

I definitely agree with you here, though I've found that I sometimes dislike a V shape because of the absent mids more than too much treble.

 

 

Tagging @The Flying Sloth here as well: Well after a night of research I saw a lot of people saying that the KZ ZST Pros have the least pronounced V-shape of their lineup and are most comparable to the SE215s, so I went ahead and ordered a pair. They're so cheap it's not a big deal if I don't like them, plus this is more of an experiment to see if I can get into using in-ears all the time. Thanks for your help guys!

[The Flying Sloth]

16 minutes ago, Spork829 said:

I definitely agree with you here, though I've found that I sometimes dislike a V shape because of the absent mids more than too much treble.

 

 

Tagging @The Flying Sloth here as well: Well after a night of research I saw a lot of people saying that the KZ ZST Pros have the least pronounced V-shape of their lineup and are most comparable to the SE215s, so I went ahead and ordered a pair. They're so cheap it's not a big deal if I don't like them, plus this is more of an experiment to see if I can get into using in-ears all the time. Thanks for your help guys!

I hope you enjoy your purchase, and if you don't the most you've lost is $20 and you've gained a spare pare of earphones.
Let me know how you like them when they arrive.

[EDIT] Also, before I forget, studio monitors come in powered and unpowered formats, if you're looking for monitors that don't need an external amp make sure that you're looking at powered/active studio monitors and not passive monitors. 

Sloth

Edited April 16, 2020 by The Flying Sloth

[Spork829]

On 4/15/2020 at 6:36 PM, The Flying Sloth said:

I hope you enjoy your purchase, and if you don't the most you've lost is $20 and you've gained a spare pare of earphones.
Let me know how you like them when they arrive.

[EDIT] Also, before I forget, studio monitors come in powered and unpowered formats, if you're looking for monitors that don't need an external amp make sure that you're looking at powered/active studio monitors and not passive monitors. 

Sloth

Update! They just got here, and so far impressions are good. Comfortable even with the stock ear tips, and the sound is pretty much expected. I'm using an EQ to flatten things out the way I like, but I will say at stock it's not an incredibly pronounced V shape. The mids are a little lacking but do exist, and the treble is overly plentiful but not harsh. Bass seems good, though I always have a hard time noticing the difference between tight vs loose/muddy bass as others can.

 

Most importantly I can sit at my computer without getting those killer headaches anymore, so definitely a win even if I eventually swap these out. Thanks for all your help!

[kokakolia]

@Spork829I'm glad you like them! Your impressions are exactly what I expected from KZ:

 

- A bit too much treble

- Could use more mids

- Bass is nice

 

Yep! You're using a KZ alright. 

[rice guru]

For under a $100 I'm a big fan of the moondrop starfields a nice pleasant Harman neutral ish sound more pleasant than most going for this sound signature. The tin t4 is pretty great as well it what o use but it's not for everyone as the bass can be too light the mods can be shouty but I love it because of a nice 8k dip which for my ears in particular love. If you want a very bassy iem the guideray gri is a nice pickup. And if you can find them on sale the ikko oh1 is also pretty great. Oops forgot I already replied to this one and congrats glad you like your new iem

[Derkoli]

On 4/14/2020 at 11:45 PM, The Flying Sloth said:

ADAM speakers going for cheap and might have to check them out too

ADAM Audio stuff is great. The T5V are great for listening, then the T7V's are great for monitoring. I currently own 7 of the S5H for surround work and they're probably my favourite speakers other than my Aida's. Plenty loud, fairly flat frequency response, only gripe with them is the weight and size.

 

Spoiler

 

[The Flying Sloth]

3 hours ago, Derkoli said:

ADAM Audio stuff is great. The T5V are great for listening, then the T7V's are great for monitoring. I currently own 7 of the S5H for surround work and they're probably my favourite speakers other than my Aida's. Plenty loud, fairly flat frequency response, only gripe with them is the weight and size.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Well it sounds like my monitor upgrade isn't going to be as simple as "Buy the 8 inch Tannoys 4head" anymore. Going to have to actually put some thought into it now.

You're a terrible influence on my bank balance Derkloli , thanks very much for the recommendation.

 

Oh, and @Spork829, you're more than welcome. Very glad they worked out for you.

 

Sloth

[Derkoli]

5 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Well it sounds like my monitor upgrade isn't going to be as simple as "Buy the 8 inch Tannoys 4head" anymore. Going to have to actually put some thought into it now.

You're a terrible influence on my bank balance Derkloli , thanks very much for the recommendation.

 

Oh, and @Spork829, you're more than welcome. Very glad they worked out for you.

 

Sloth

Hey, the T series is similarly priced to the Yamah HS series and JBL 308's

[The Flying Sloth]

3 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

Hey, the T series is similarly priced to the Yamah HS series and JBL 308's

The big differences to the other monitors I have experience with / am considering for upgrade are the ribbon tweeter, class D amp and rear bass port.... Damnit man you're going to make me do actual research now.

 

Okay okay, now I have questions.

 

All the monitors I have experience with are class A/B, aside from the obvious power consumption benefits will the class D change anything noticeable? 

 

I know a fair bit about how fragile ribbon mics can be, are ribbon tweeters the same? I'm sure they sound great and all but if I have to baby them it might not be the right choice for me.

 

Rear reflex port is a big one for me, the other upgrades I was considering moved the port to the front as do the higher-end Adam offerings, do you think it's a big deal? My ears are nowhere near as good as yours but muddy bass has been a (minor) challenge with the rear ported current set.

 

Sorry for piggybacking on your thread Spork

 

Sloth

[Derkoli]

Just now, The Flying Sloth said:

The big differences to the other monitors I have experience with / am considering for upgrade are the ribbon tweeter, class D amp and rear bass port.... Damnit man you're going to make me do actual research now.

 

Okay okay, now I have questions.

 

All the monitors I have experience with are class A/B, aside from the obvious power consumption benefits will the class D change anything noticeable? 

 

I know a fair bit about how fragile ribbon mics can be, are ribbon tweeters the same? I'm sure they sound great and all but if I have to baby them it might not be the right choice for me.

 

Rear reflex port is a big one for me, the other upgrades I was considering moved the port to the front as do the higher-end Adam offerings, do you think it's a big deal? My ears are nowhere near as good as yours but muddy bass has been a (minor) challenge with the rear ported current set.

 

Sorry for piggybacking on your thread Spork

 

Sloth

Well, the other ADAM Audio monitors are front ported to allow for Soffit mounting. So it's not a huge deal. Giving them a clearance from the rear wall to the rear of the speaker which is double the port diameter is a good rule of thumb. But if you already have bass bloating issues then it might be a fairly good idea to either give them a fair bit of room, or going for front ports.

 

Ribbon tweeters aren't really delicate as they usually come with protection of some sort over the Diaphragm, which ADAM Audio stuff does have. Just don't stick a fork into them, and yes they do sound amazing.

 

Class D IMO doesn't make a massive difference, other than having slightly bass "grip", it's just great for reducing power usage, obviously because it's much more efficient and isn't a space heater.

 

If you would like, you could send me a DM and we could go deeper into this