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Can AMD Beat the ULTIMATE Intel Gaming PC?

9 hours ago, The117thCon said:

Im in the UK that is my actual price comparison as for the 9900KS pre bin I so far havent been able to get a price on one.

The whole budget situation I am simply looking at it from the point of Wasted money on a stupid buy, it is STILL wasted money that could go to something else and yeah you could tbh my comments were in direct regard to the video as the whole premise seems a bit silly.

The whole point of a no budget build is that you don't care or have anything else you'd need the money for, you have enough of it to throw anything you want at it.

F@H
Desktop: i7-5960X 4.4GHz, Noctua NH-D14, ASUS Rampage V, 32GB, RTX2080S, 2TB NVMe SSD, 2x16TB HDD RAID0, Corsair HX1200, Thermaltake Overseer RX1, Samsung 4K curved 49" TV, 23" secondary

Mobile SFF rig: i9-9900K, Noctua NH-L9i, Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX-AC, 32GB, GTX1070, 2x1TB NVMe SSD RAID0, 2x5TB 2.5" HDD RAID0, Athena 500W Flex (Noctua fan), Custom 4.7l 3D printed case

 

Dell XPS 2 in 1 2019, 32GB, 1TB, 4K

 

GPD Win 2

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2 hours ago, Yebi said:

GamersNexus recently did some real testing with real methodology (as GN does), and yeah, there actually is a performance difference between air and water

They did, and found that there's a couple of degrees difference on a cooler the size of the Noctua D-15 vs a 240mm AIO. So pretty insignificant even when pushed. Of course at the extremes that matters and there are bigger radiators than 240mm but as a general rule? For the average user, especially someone who's not pushing all cores (i.e. someone playing games), an AIO doesn't have much of a performance advantage and generally costs more.

 

Water isn't magic, it's all surface area and airflow.

 

2 hours ago, Dash Lambda said:

Now, if they had just went with a normal NH-D15 then sure it would cost less, but an extra $20-30 for a great AIO kind of pales in comparison to thirty two terabytes of storage.

 

This video was filled with strange decisions.

I mean, of course the black one isn't faster and you could spend less on the ugly silver and brown one. Though all these tech youtubers have just done videos on the black one so they'd have it on hand. Kinda similar with the 32TB of storage, they have a enough of those Seagate drives to build a HDD fort. So why not use a couple? It makes zero impact on the performance.

I think you guys are getting into the weeds a bit too much with this one. It was really just an AMD vs Intel CPU battle in gaming at a similar (v high but not farcical) price point. Intel just barely won which shouldn't really surprise anyone at this point. Of course they could have done more to make the two machines absolutely identical.... but they also went into lockdown half way through this so, the trivial differences make sense

But I guess fanboys and cynics gotta fanboy and cynic.....

Fools think they know everything, experts know they know nothing

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@jakkuh_t Is this another April fools video? Your average viewer can´t afford a I9900K. Not even the normal one for 500$. This is again a recommendation for the 1%. Even with only one 2080TI and one SSD. Heck, most of them couldn´t even afford this build with a 2070Super and SATA SSD.

 

Wanna make a video that actually targets your average viewer? Aim for 900-1300$.

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1 minute ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

This is again a recommendation for the 1%. Even with only one 2080TI and one SSD. Heck, most of them couldn´t even afford this build with a 2070Super and SATA SSD. Wanna make a video that actually targets your average viewer? Aim for 900-1300$.

There's heaps of videos like this, get a Ryzen 3600 and an RTX 2060. Didn't they do a build stream for that like a week ago?

Fools think they know everything, experts know they know nothing

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7 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@jakkuh_t Is this another April fools video? Your average viewer can´t afford a I9900K. Not even the normal one for 500$. This is again a recommendation for the 1%. Even with only one 2080TI and one SSD. Heck, most of them couldn´t even afford this build with a 2070Super and SATA SSD.

 

Wanna make a video that actually targets your average viewer? Aim for 900-1300$.

I'd say lower than that, unless you're including the monitor. Most of the builds we recommend on this forum are under $800. I don't remember the last time I saw an RTX card recommended. The 1660 Super is near the high end.

 

But yeah, this is another reason why I watch a lot less LTT stuff now. I have almost no interest in the impractical products. I think Linus has spent so much time using high end stuff that he's forgotten regular people are on a budget.

Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response!

PSU Tier List  |  The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures"2K" does not mean 2560×1440 

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12 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Wanna make a video that actually targets your average viewer? Aim for 900-1300$.

They did that recently, and they regularly do. Need to address all audiences, and they definitely have viewers who can afford that, just look at the number of people who spent a grand on equipment just for folding during the event that just finished. 

And it's fun, in the end it doesn't even have to help anybody, just provide some entertainment seeing something crazy.

 

Guess you didn't watch the compensator video...

F@H
Desktop: i7-5960X 4.4GHz, Noctua NH-D14, ASUS Rampage V, 32GB, RTX2080S, 2TB NVMe SSD, 2x16TB HDD RAID0, Corsair HX1200, Thermaltake Overseer RX1, Samsung 4K curved 49" TV, 23" secondary

Mobile SFF rig: i9-9900K, Noctua NH-L9i, Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX-AC, 32GB, GTX1070, 2x1TB NVMe SSD RAID0, 2x5TB 2.5" HDD RAID0, Athena 500W Flex (Noctua fan), Custom 4.7l 3D printed case

 

Dell XPS 2 in 1 2019, 32GB, 1TB, 4K

 

GPD Win 2

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I accept the premise for this vid. If someone asked me for a money no object gaming setup then I would probably list what you have. 

But surely you knew what was coming in the comments, especially on YouTube. Was it deliberate? can a video go viral through comment section activity?

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4 hours ago, Kilrah said:

The whole point of a no budget build is that you don't care or have anything else you'd need the money for, you have enough of it to throw anything you want at it.

Ok why didnt they try and track down a prebinned 3950X from silicon lottery whilst not in stock it costs the same as the 9900KS they chose

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@skywake @Kilrah He list all that crazy projects that cost tons of money and then says that this is now a build that he can actually recommened for his viewers to buy.

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27 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@skywake @Kilrah He list all that crazy projects that cost tons of money and then says that this is now a build that he can actually recommened for his viewers to buy.

And that is part of the reason I have so many problems with this build it IS a recommendation when most of it makes zero sense, hurts performance or LITERALLY wastes severeal thousands of dollars!

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16 hours ago, Kilrah said:

Eh, I've removed the D14 on my 5960X once... after 5 years, for a more thorough cleaning than the usual I do every 6 months or so... :) 

I'd really expect most people not to care about that aspect. Usually it's the looks or the bragging rights...

Ya I think its truly a personal preference and aesthetics choice.  Even with the beefy D15, I actually did have to access my RAM once; took off fan, changed RAM, fan back on; <1 minute.  I love the absolute simplicity and low maintenance of an air cooler; had I not wanted to get in there and dust + repaste (1 time now after about 18 months of having it running), it would still be chugging away.

 

If I liked the look of an AIO I could maybe get on board, but having a pump, having 3 plugs coming off the pump that have to go to a USB header, RGB header, pump header, and fans to fan headers...plus that ugly awkward tubing that sits a little funny in a lot of peoples systems (sometimes it looks clean, sometimes its absolutely sloppy).  Then again, thats all my personal preference!

 

 

El Zoido: 9900k [5.1 GHz]  / Hydro X custom loop / z390 Aorus master / 32 gb Corsair vengeance 3000mHz LPX / Strix 2080ti [2130mHz/7750mHz] / Fractal Define R6

 

The Box: 3900x / DR4 / b450 Asrock ITX / 32 gb Corsair vengeance 3000mHz LPX / FTW3 3080 / Meshify mini 

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5 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@jakkuh_t Is this another April fools video? Your average viewer can´t afford a I9900K. Not even the normal one for 500$. This is again a recommendation for the 1%. Even with only one 2080TI and one SSD. Heck, most of them couldn´t even afford this build with a 2070Super and SATA SSD.

 

Wanna make a video that actually targets your average viewer? Aim for 900-1300$.

If I go to a car-centric youtube channel do I want info on honda civics, ford escapes, and toyota camrys?  Sure I do.  

 

Do I want all their videos to be on those cars?  Nah, Im not gonna keep coming back unless they occasionally strap a rocket to the honda civic, or maybe showcase an exotic car now and then.

 

They have done countless budget videos with ryzen 3600's and entry level builds with the athlon 3000.  We have a lot of honda civic videos, it was time to strap a rocket onto one.

El Zoido: 9900k [5.1 GHz]  / Hydro X custom loop / z390 Aorus master / 32 gb Corsair vengeance 3000mHz LPX / Strix 2080ti [2130mHz/7750mHz] / Fractal Define R6

 

The Box: 3900x / DR4 / b450 Asrock ITX / 32 gb Corsair vengeance 3000mHz LPX / FTW3 3080 / Meshify mini 

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5 hours ago, Kilrah said:

They did that recently, and they regularly do. Need to address all audiences, and they definitely have viewers who can afford that, just look at the number of people who spent a grand on equipment just for folding during the event that just finished. 

*hides new 2080 ti*

 

*whistles while walking away*

El Zoido: 9900k [5.1 GHz]  / Hydro X custom loop / z390 Aorus master / 32 gb Corsair vengeance 3000mHz LPX / Strix 2080ti [2130mHz/7750mHz] / Fractal Define R6

 

The Box: 3900x / DR4 / b450 Asrock ITX / 32 gb Corsair vengeance 3000mHz LPX / FTW3 3080 / Meshify mini 

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2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@skywake @Kilrah He list all that crazy projects that cost tons of money and then says that this is now a build that he can actually recommened for his viewers to buy.

For someone to buy, not literally everyone to buy. As mentioned earlier, he did a sickstream the other day with a mid-priced rig build. This is considered to be an "extreme" build that he'd recommend someone with a high budget actually purchase, as opposed to the crazy stuff they build occasionally that's wildly impractical/dumb, where this is a solid high-high-end build that makes (some) sense.

 

How many mid-price builds does anyone want? It'd be a pretty boring start, "Hey guys, let's talk about Glasswire, ok we're building with a 2600x, gtx 2060 super and solid mid-priced ram/ssds, for the 12th time this month like every pc youtube channel out there"

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40 minutes ago, seanondemand said:

as opposed to the crazy stuff they build occasionally that's wildly impractical/dumb, where this is a solid high-high-end build that makes (some) sense.

SLI 2080Tis vs a single RTX though this is impractical and pretty dumb over that one fact alone excluding the fact that the Intel build costs about £7K here in the UK for a rig that really is great for gaming but is kinda stupid

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2 minutes ago, The117thCon said:

SLI 2080Tis vs a single RTX though this is impractical and pretty dumb over that one fact alone excluding the fact that the Intel build costs about £7K here in the UK for a rig that really is great for gaming but is kinda stupid

And they put that caveat in there - it's the kind of thing that a baller with an extra $1k in his/her pocket will think about though.

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3 minutes ago, seanondemand said:

And they put that caveat in there - it's the kind of thing that a baller with an extra $1k in his/her pocket will think about though.

two 2080tis cost the same as a titan rtx though least with the titan you can use it all the time where as sli is mostly dead

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59 minutes ago, The117thCon said:

two 2080tis cost the same as a titan rtx though least with the titan you can use it all the time where as sli is mostly dead

Obviously true baller is dual Titans, but looking over the GamerNexus results I'd go 2x 2080Ti over 1x Titan:

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3419-sli-nvlink-titan-rtx-benchmark-gaming-power-consumption

 

The difference between a single 2080TI and RTX Titan isn't major, but you get get big gains from multiple GPU when the game actually implements it.  It comes down to if you want 5 to 10 more fps during most games, or want to gamble big on getting 70+ fps uplifts on DX12 titles that do multiple GPU well.  

 

Plus more and more titles are shipping with at the very least the ability to unload the async compute work onto a second GPU, since DX12/Vulkan make that easy and you can do it even if there isn't a high speed interconnect between the GPUs.  It's just taken time for engine makers to bake that into their engines as easily available tooling.

 

 

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And let's be honest, a big part of the spec they choose for these build vids is what they have around the warehouse at a given time.

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14 hours ago, Derrk said:

I had a problem with this video, being the top 2080ti on the AMD system had no breathing room. When you guys test games that primarily utilize 1 gpu, of course the gpu that can breathe is going to win. In most games tested, its not surprising Intel won, but you created a new variable by cutting airflow on the test bench system

Temperatures + boost clocks were tested before hand to ensure they were fine on both systems.

 

The AMD test bench didn't have any issues (never went above 70c on the top GPU, and hit the exact same boost clocks) as it was on an open air bench, without the closed environment of a case.

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Gaming Rig3900X, 32GB 3600MHz TridentZ, ROG 2080 Ti, 2*4TB Black, 1TB MP600

NAS: E5-2670v3, 48GB ECC, 76TB of HDD's: 3*4TB + 2*8TB + 4*12TB, 500GB 850 Evo Cache


 

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2 hours ago, The117thCon said:

two 2080tis cost the same as a titan rtx though least with the titan you can use it all the time where as sli is mostly dead

GN did a video a while ago on this.  While the titan would be the choice for projects using massive VRAM and productivity of that nature, it certainly is a poor choice for gaming.   Even in games that scale pretty terribly, 2080ti SLI crushes a single titan RTX in gaming, for the same price.  

 

And you have lots of options:  fold with one, game on the other, fold with both.  One dedicated to streaming, one just gaming. Game in SLI on a title that actually works well. Sell one of them on ebay.  Take one out and put it in another box and have a second beast maching.  Sell both of them on ebay (way easier to sell 2x2080ti than 1 titan RTX).  Titan RTX is the answer for an extremely small slice (I would argue smaller than 2x 2080ti).

El Zoido: 9900k [5.1 GHz]  / Hydro X custom loop / z390 Aorus master / 32 gb Corsair vengeance 3000mHz LPX / Strix 2080ti [2130mHz/7750mHz] / Fractal Define R6

 

The Box: 3900x / DR4 / b450 Asrock ITX / 32 gb Corsair vengeance 3000mHz LPX / FTW3 3080 / Meshify mini 

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To be honest, builds and comparisons like these are why I DO watch LTT even though my main rig is an R5 3600 system.

 

Why? Cuz it's cool. I have little desire to build a computer like this (well, just for gaming) but it is really neat to see what top tier stuff can do. I have been on a virtualization kick so the X gamers Y CPU builds and other server stuff is fascinating to me.

 

I don't think I'd watch much if every couple weeks it was 'well here's an R5 3600, a 1660, and some RGB, what more do you need?" type stuff. The crazy insane stuff where it's LTT team goofing around with absurd tech is what's neat to watch. Relevant, maybe not, but who cares! It's entertaining.

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2 hours ago, jakkuh_t said:

Temperatures + boost clocks were tested before hand to ensure they were fine on both systems.

 

The AMD test bench didn't have any issues (never went above 70c on the top GPU, and hit the exact same boost clocks) as it was on an open air bench, without the closed environment of a case.

Quick question Jake was PBO/Auto OC enabled on the AMD test system?
genuinely curious here

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2 hours ago, Zberg said:

GN did a video a while ago on this.  While the titan would be the choice for projects using massive VRAM and productivity of that nature, it certainly is a poor choice for gaming.   Even in games that scale pretty terribly, 2080ti SLI crushes a single titan RTX in gaming, for the same price.  

 

And you have lots of options:  fold with one, game on the other, fold with both.  One dedicated to streaming, one just gaming. Game in SLI on a title that actually works well. Sell one of them on ebay.  Take one out and put it in another box and have a second beast maching.  Sell both of them on ebay (way easier to sell 2x2080ti than 1 titan RTX).  Titan RTX is the answer for an extremely small slice (I would argue smaller than 2x 2080ti).

Oh yeah I totally agree to a degree it makes a lot more sense but in gaming only unless the game that you play works wonderfully with SLI theres no point getting an extra and if you are gonna spend that much 5-10 fps always is still 5-10 fps, its completely ludicrous I agree and tbh if you are doing something like that it would be excellent for folding and streaming, but in a pure gaming only test across multiple titles say 100-200 most played on steam I can guarantee the titan would be a better overall choice in a gaming only rig.

 

And tbh if it was me Id totally go for the dual 2080tis as I use a dual GPU setup and it makes a lot more sense for me in the way i utilise them

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6 hours ago, seanondemand said:

For someone to buy, not literally everyone to buy. As mentioned earlier, he did a sickstream the other day with a mid-priced rig build. This is considered to be an "extreme" build that he'd recommend someone with a high budget actually purchase, as opposed to the crazy stuff they build occasionally that's wildly impractical/dumb, where this is a solid high-high-end build that makes (some) sense.

 

How many mid-price builds does anyone want? It'd be a pretty boring start, "Hey guys, let's talk about Glasswire, ok we're building with a 2600x, gtx 2060 super and solid mid-priced ram/ssds, for the 12th time this month like every pc youtube channel out there"

I'd like to see Linus benchmark these two CPU's with a lesser GPU instead, at the very least a step down to the 2080 Super. It would help clear the air for what he meant when he says Intel still beats AMD when it comes to gaming due to its edge in single thread performance, because that's really not what I see. The performance gap between the two CPU's closes considerably on average when using any other GPU besides a 2080TI, especially at higher resolutions. If I'm looking at videos like this for the best PC money can buy, the me're 15% boost I'd get with a 2080TI doesn't justify the price tag of a I9-9900KS vs that of an R9 3950X. 

 

Ryzen 9 3950X Stock vs Core i9 9900KS Stock:

 

 

 

Ryzen 9 3900X @OC vs Core i9 9900KS @OC vs Ryzen 9 3950X @OC:

 

 

 

Ryzen 9 3950X SMT Off (Stock) vs Core i9 9900KS (Stock): 

 

System Specs

  • CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
  • Motherboard
    Gigabyte AMD X570 Auros Master
  • RAM
    G.Skill Ripjaws 32 GBs
  • GPU
    AMD RX 470
  • Case
    Corsair 570X
  • Storage
    Samsung SSD 860 QVO 2TB - HDD Seagate B arracuda 1TB - External Seagate HDD 8TB
  • PSU
    G.Skill RipJaws 1250 Watts
  • Keyboard
    Corsair Gaming Keyboard K55
  • Mouse
    Razer Naga Trinity
  • Operating System
    Windows 10
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