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Windows 10 May 2020 Update - Here is everything you need to know - Out now!!!

12 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

-snip-

So then what happens when support of some of the vital software that they use ceases for the operating system they are stuck in, and any inquiry about bugs or support gets met by "if you want further support, please update your operating system"? That also screws them over, and at that point updating the OS and losing access to some of the software they need presents far less cost in downtime, monetary, or support.

Again, it costs so much more to train new students and programmers to use ancient languages than to use languages that are up to date or remain very usable.

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Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

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6 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Devils advocate: they do it since win8.....

Do what since Win8?

For Win 8, the start button was moved to the side, but the underlying function of the OS was still the same. Users can install Classic Shell and it brings the start button back to where it was. For 8.1 classic shell wasn't needed, since the start button back to its original location.

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Why isn't chromium Edge already the default? Still hasn't come through windows update. I wonder what will happen when it does, to people who already downloaded it and have it installed. Will it be reinstalled? Will we end up with two? Because if you remember, the default Edge browser is installed in a way that it can't be uninstalled from the control panel, chromium Edge right now can.

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10 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

So then what happens when support of some of the vital software that they use ceases for the operating system they are stuck in, and any inquiry about bugs or support gets met by "if you want further support, please update your operating system"? That also screws them over, and at that point updating the OS and losing access to some of the software they need presents far less cost in downtime, monetary, or support.

Again, it costs so much more to train new students and programmers to use ancient languages than to use languages that are up to date or remain very usable.

I don't think you understand how it works in businesses, especially in manufacturing.

 

"Vital software" don't cease functioning as long as they don't upgrade the OS. It's only when they upgrade the OS that they will start running into issues. If you buy a million dollar manufacturing robot and it runs Windows XP, then the manufacturer will support that OS with their updates. If you then go and install Windows 10 on that machine you will have issues and the manufacturer will go "well install the OS we provided or else we won't give you support". That's how the business world works. You get support, but only if you use the software the manufacturer provides you with.

 

This part:

14 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

"if you want further support, please update your operating system"

That never happens with the type of machines we're talking about. You might encounter that with your consumer grade software, but for specialized machines the reality is that they go "if you want further support, please install the software we provided you with, not the newer version you yourself installed". And that's assuming you can even get support anymore. A lot of the factories I've been to uses machines that are 20+ years old and the companies that once made them might not be in business anymore.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

Again, it costs so much more to train new students and programmers to use ancient languages than to use languages that are up to date or remain very usable.

The language used isn't a problem. I saw that you mentioned COBOL earlier as if that was a problem but it isn't. Even "modern" languages can run into compatibility issues with newer releases. Even looked at Microsoft Visual C++ runtime libraries? Start removing old ones and only use the new ones. See how long it takes before you start running into issues with programs not working, and that's for C++ code (not what I would call an "ancient language").

I repeat, the language used isn't the problem. It can happen with new "modern" languages (whatever that means), and it can happen with old languages.

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15 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

So then what happens when support of some of the vital software that they use ceases for the operating system they are stuck in

Usually, the machine has only 1 software. Companies will pay for support (and bad deals one, like pay for X hours of support, but will expire in a year). The problem is when support is only availible if nothing is touched on the system (ie: not upgraded), even if it has been 10 years, or there is no support of any kind already because 5 years past. But the company that made the machine you like, want you to buy a new machine.

 

We have seen this kind of thing on the consumer end. HP and Creative Labs are the most notable companies who took advantage of Vista release, to say "Oh you want Vista drivers... LOLz! None for you! LOL! Buy our new, but really the exact, same product as the one you have now to get Vista drivers". Yeeaaa, that didn't end well for them. Creative has a group of people who took their Vista drivers for their rebranded product, and modified it to work with old models, also a group of consumers assembled a class action law suits, only to have Creative go "ok ok ok, here are the drivers", HP lost a lot of consumers, probably saw what was happening to Creative, and back tracked.

 

That is the power that consumers have, but it is a different world in business level. You don't have that luxury. At best you have a few competitors, and that is who you need to deal with. You don't have 20 companies to pick and choose for many things. Some cases, you only have 1 solution.

 

15 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

Again, it costs so much more to train new students and programmers to use ancient languages than to use languages that are up to date or remain very usable.

Yup.

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2 minutes ago, DSD27 said:

Why isn't chromium Edge already the default? Still hasn't come through windows update. I wonder what will happen when it does, to people who already downloaded it and have it installed. Will it be reinstalled? Will we end up with two? Because if you remember, the default Edge browser is installed in a way that it can't be uninstalled from the control panel, chromium Edge right now can.

Here is my guess.

1) People who have it installed already will not notice any difference once they start pushing it out with Windows Update. If Windows update detects that you have it installed, it will just not download it again. You won't get two Edge installs on your computer.

2) People who don't have it installed will get it installed through Windows update and it will look and work just like if they had manually installed it from the website.

3) Everyone will be able to uninstall ChrEdge through the control panel even after it starts getting pushed out through Windows Update.

4) Old Edge will continue to live on inside your computer. A lot of APIs in Windows 10 (mainly UWP ones) relies on old Edge for things. So when you install new Edge, old Edge doesn't actually get uninstalled. The normal ways of launching it (like the shortcuts) just gets deleted. You can still access it by editing registry values.

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1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

Do what since Win8?

Change things around just for the sake of change even if it is not needed or straight up dumb. (GUI changes, their dead app platform, etc)

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53 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Change things around just for the sake of change even if it is not needed or straight up dumb. (GUI changes, their dead app platform, etc)

Win8 doesn't have "changes for the sake of change". The changes done were perfectly justified. Microsoft has explained all this. And they continue to do do via blog posting, various stage presentations.

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43 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Win8 doesn't have "changes for the sake of change". The changes done were perfectly justified. Microsoft has explained all this. And they continue to do do via blog posting, various stage presentations.

“Doesn’t?”. Win8 is dead.  “Didn’t” maybe.

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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42 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

“Doesn’t?”. Win8 is dead.  “Didn’t” maybe.

The OS version is not dead, it is still supported. 

End of support ends:  1/10/2023

 

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46 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

The OS version is not dead, it is still supported. 

End of support ends:  1/10/2023

 

You can’t get a copy though.  I got talked into updating to win10 which killed $500 worth of my hardware. It burned my gpu AND my monitor.  I replaced the gpu, and I’ve got an eve n older spare monitor which still works but I had to downgrade to 1080p@60 from 1440p@144.
 

A $500 monitor and a perfectly good video card out the window.
 

Win10 has other problems in the form of missing or obfuscated control systems.  The extreme difficulty and new functional limitations of using safe mode is one example.  There’s a bunch of em though.

 

I can’t seem to revert.  I’d really like to.  

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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18 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

You can’t get a copy though.  I got talked into updating to win10 which killed $500 worth of my hardware. It burned my gpu AND my monitor.  I replaced the gpu, and I’ve got an eve n older spare monitor which still works but I had to downgrade to 1080p@60 from 1440p@144.

Doesn't matter. It is not dead.

Please tell more how Windows 10 also caused you all the problem in your life.

 

18 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Win10 has other problems in the form of missing or obfuscated control systems.  The extreme difficulty and new functional limitations of using safe mode is one example.  There’s a bunch of em though.

More like you don't know.

 

18 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I can’t seem to revert.  I’d really like to.  

If you upgraded to Windows 10, you had 30 days to downgrade.

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1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Doesn't matter. It is not dead.

Please tell more how Windows 10 also caused you all the problem in your life.

 

More like you don't know.

 

If you upgraded to Windows 10, you had 30 days to downgrade.

Re: all the problems in your life

is wild exaggeration a normal argumentative technique for you?  It’s pretty weak.   It has caused the biggest irritations I had with my computer though.

 

re: more like you don’t know.

not totally false.  Misdirection, but also not totally false.  The attempt is to imply it’s not a problem because I’m “weak”.  

some of them in fact I don’t know.  I only look for the ones I need to use.  I’ve read about others.  They hid shit.  Trying to hide that is just sad.

 

re:30 days to downgrade

yeah.  That one turns out to be horseshit.  It’s a “cant get there from here” problem.  The end result is when I changed (I’m no longer saying upgraded) to win10 my monitor shut down. You think I would have left it that way for a month?!

 

windows8.1 is legacy. It’s being pushed out.  It may still be moving, but you can’t buy it, can’t load it, and unless you’ve had it running for years can’t use it.  It’s dead. It’s not AS dead as vista.  There are people using that too.  I’ve still got disks of that.  If I could load that and upgrade to 8.1 I would.  You want to argue about what “dead” means be my guest.  I reserve the right to not care.

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

is wild exaggeration a normal argumentative technique for you?  It’s pretty weak.   It has caused the biggest irritations I had with my computer though

An OS doesn't kill a GPU. When you talk trash don't expect anything better in return.

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My insider build is still insider build for some reason even tho its set to not receive preview releases, is the 2004 19041.264 build not releasing anytime soon ?

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11 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The changes done were perfectly justified

In their twisted imaginary world maybe but in reality it was a huge downfall... And win10 isnt better in any way in that regard. The two things driving up its market share is the fact that new machines dont have drivers for 7, and ppl being lazy AF and put up any amount of annoyance so they wont have to move out of their comfort zone.....

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5 hours ago, Kilrah said:

An OS doesn't kill a GPU. When you talk trash don't expect anything better in return.

Oh the gpu wasn’t fried.  It just stopped working.   I couldn’t tell if the video card support was the issue or the os was the issue when the video card turned off so I bought a replacement video card.  It worked.  For two days. Then there was a Different but equally fatal problem. The default video driver that worked for years won’t load.  The monitor is suddenly “ unknown”.  I’ve now got both a 970 and a 580 gpu, and the AMD driver has a custom driver thing that should work, and actually did for a short while, but it refuses all inputs now even ones that did work for a bit.

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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18 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Oh the gpu wasn’t fried.  It just stopped working.   I couldn’t tell if the video card support was the issue or the os was the issue when the video card turned off so I bought a replacement video card.  It worked.  For two days. Then there was a Different but equally fatal problem. The default video driver that worked for years won’t load.  The monitor is suddenly “ unknown”.  I’ve now got both a 970 and a 580 gpu, and the AMD driver has a custom driver thing that should work, and actually did for a short while, but it refuses all inputs now even ones that did work for a bit.

It's a hardware issue, not a windows issue. 970 and 580 don't have any known compatibility issues with windows 10 to that extent ever. 

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1 minute ago, mrthuvi said:

It's a hardware issue, not a windows issue. 970 and 580 don't have any known compatibility issues with windows 10 to that extent ever. 

The issue appears to be dual link dviD.  8.1 could deal with dual link divD, 10 won’t.  The problem with it being a hardware issue is I can make all the hardware work, briefly, and either video card will work fine on the Old hdmi monitor.  I can convert from dual link dviD to DisplayPort hut it still fails.

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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4 hours ago, Escanor said:

My insider build is still insider build for some reason even tho its set to not receive preview releases, is the 2004 19041.264 build not releasing anytime soon ?

The official build  is not released yet.

Once it will be released, if you have the option enabled, then it will opt you out then.

 

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1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

The issue appears to be dual link dviD.  8.1 could deal with dual link divD, 10 won’t.  The problem with it being a hardware issue is I can make all the hardware work, briefly, and either video card will work fine on the Old hdmi monitor.  I can convert from dual link dviD to DisplayPort hut it still fails.

Dual link DVI works great under Windows 10.

 

Windows 10 is not responsible on how a GPU works. That is why Windows uses the concept of drivers. It says to the hardware, "I have no idea how you work... tell me how".

 

Now, if the manufcature of your GPU said "Screw it! We will cut support!" Then Microsoft's can't do anything. Complain to teh GPU manufacture, and don't buy from this GPU manufcature ever again until the issue is resolved. Or prepare a class action lawsuit against the company if needs to be. Or return the GPU if you can. Microsoft cannot code drivers without knowing how the hardware works, and that information is not available. That is why, the best you get, are "Generic drivers" when no driver is found, where it a standard that all companies agreed upon that their product should work at minimum, so that this basic driver can be built. Hence why you can get an image on your screen when you don't have the driver installed, but the resolution is low, and it can't do 3D acceleration or anything. Just enough so that you can technically use the system, to install the correct drivers, and not be a a door stop.

 

DisplayPort does not support dual link DVI. You'll need a costly adapter for this. This is because DisplayPort can only switch from packet based to single link mode to do HDMI or single Link DVI (max res: 1920x1200@60Hz), but not dual link. So you need hardware that will convert DisplayPort packets into a dual link DVI signal. Mix that with low production product, and it ends up in an expensive adapter.

 

All dual link DVI monitor, can operate in single link mode you'll just be limited in screen resolution (as mentioned: 1920x1200 max at 60Hz)

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That would be reasonable except it worked with win8.1 but didn’t with win10.  I tried finding older drivers following the unlikely possibility that both gpu manufacturers (one was AMD the other Nvidia) had dropped dviD support. It didn’t help.  The monitor literally worked (and still does) at first in bios then shut off while win10 was loading.  I could watch windows start to load, the little dots spin, and then have it blink off.   I can make the AMD card (but not the Nvidia one) partially work now even after windows loads but only at 720p.  It claims the generic driver win10 comes with does not work with the monitor (even though it used to) and will not allow the creation of a custom driver.  The generic driver packaged with win10 is samsungLG  so I suppose it is possible that this is samsumgLG attempting to kick crossover in the nards, but it’s still part of win10.

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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18 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

That would be reasonable except it worked with win8.1 but didn’t with win10.

Doesn't matter. Different driver model

Quote

I tried finding older drivers following the unlikely possibility that both gpu manufacturers (one was AMD the other Nvidia) had dropped dviD support. It didn’t help.  The monitor literally worked (and still does) at first in bios then shut off while win10 was loading.  I could watch windows start to load, the little dots spin, and then have it blink off.

Sounds to me that the primary monitor was set to another port. Doing Win+P > Enter and wait (repeat if nothing happens. A few times might be required. Be sure to waiting several seconds in between). Doing so, should switch the source to the correct output.

 

You can also reload the GPU driver by doing Win+Ctrl+Shift+B and waiting several seconds.

 

Quote

 The generic driver packaged with win10 is samsungLG  so I suppose it is possible that this is samsumgLG attempting to kick crossover in the nards, but it’s still part of win10.

Generic drivers are identified in device manager as "Microsoft Basic..." or "Generic...".

If you see anything else, then those are not generic drivers.

 

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There is nothing wrong with dvi and win10 I’m using that and it works fine. Looks like someone went on to buy the cheapest dvi cable they can find, like from Alibaba, but got confused with the name, and ended up buying from a site no one has ever heard of, Alipapa

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6 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

There is nothing wrong with dvi and win10 I’m using that and it works fine. Looks like someone went on to buy the cheapest dvi cable they can find, like from Alibaba, but got confused with the name, and ended up buying from a site no one has ever heard of, Alipapa

Dvi and dual link dviD do not seem to behave the same way.  Single link dvi converts to hdmi quite easily.  Finding a cable that would work at all with dual link dviD was a huge pita.  I wound up buying 4 before I found something semi functional.  Part of the issue is in one direction it requires an “active” system which costs about $100

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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