Windows 10 May 2020 Update - Here is everything you need to know - Out now!!!

[LAwLz]

Another interesting tidbit about this update that might deserve its own thread is that starting with Windows 10 2004 (may update 2020), Microsoft will no longer provide 32 bit images to OEMs. The minimum requirements have also been updated to reflect this.

This means that no new (certified) computer sold with Windows 10 (update 2004 or later) will be a 32bit installation.

 

Microsoft has however said that they will continue to provide updates for 32bit installations, and they will also continue to distribute 32bit installation mediums, just not the OEM variants.

 

 

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/rip-microsoft-to-drop-support-for-windows-10-on-32-bit-systems/

 

 

@GoodBytes

[Bombastinator]

8 minutes ago, Escanor said:

Are there still 4 gb systems being sold these days anyway ? i just upgraded from 16 gb to 32 gb ram i mean why not i was upgrading to 3900x anyway

Some really low end laptop stuff maybe.  The panda is x86.  I’m not sure how much memory it has but all the mini board machines are low in memory.

[Xiauj]

57 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

The Movies and TV app regularly gets updates on its own through Windows Store, unrelated to the Windows build

Oh does it? Oh Ok, thanks @Kilrah

My mistake lol

[Arika]

56 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Another interesting tidbit about this update that might deserve its own thread is that starting with Windows 10 2004 (may update 2020), Microsoft will no longer provide 32 bit images to OEMs. The minimum requirements have also been updated to reflect this.

This means that no new (certified) computer sold with Windows 10 (update 2004 or later) will be a 32bit installation.

about time, geezuz

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, Arika S said:

about time, geezuz

There is stuff that doesn’t run in AMD64 though.  Important stuff.  

[Arika]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

There is stuff that doesn’t run in AMD64 though.  Important stuff.  

they are not dropping 32bit, you just cant buy an OEM machine with 32bit preinstalled

 

per the article

Quote

"Beginning with Windows 10, version 2004, all new Windows 10 systems will be required to use 64-bit builds and Microsoft will no longer release 32-bit builds for OEM distribution. This does not impact 32-bit customer systems that are manufactured with earlier versions of Windows 10; Microsoft remains committed to providing feature and security updates on these devices, including continued 32-bit media availability in non-OEM channels to support various upgrade installation scenarios."

 

[Bombastinator]

It does seem to be a bellweather though that if there is ANYTHING that only runs in 32bit it’s days are numbered and it NEEDS to be updated or one day you may find that it simply doesn’t work.  I can’t recall if WINE is one of these or not.

[Kilrah]

You're confusing everything, it's the 32bit ONLY version that's not gonna be sold anymore, 32bit stuff runs just fine on 64bit Windows.

 

But yeah everything's days are numbered. Should start thinking about when support for 64bit programs is dropped.

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

You're confusing everything, it's the 32bit ONLY version that's not gonna be sold anymore, 32bit stuff runs just fine on 64bit Windows.

 

But yeah everything's days are numbered. Should start thinking about when support for 64bit programs is dropped.

There’s nothing bigger than 64bit on the horizon so that can’t even be done currently.  Seems like an attempt to invalidate the whole 32bit is aging out issue.   

[GoodBytes]

15 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Another interesting tidbit about this update that might deserve its own thread is that starting with Windows 10 2004 (may update 2020), Microsoft will no longer provide 32 bit images to OEMs. The minimum requirements have also been updated to reflect this.

This means that no new (certified) computer sold with Windows 10 (update 2004 or later) will be a 32bit installation.

 

Microsoft has however said that they will continue to provide updates for 32bit installations, and they will also continue to distribute 32bit installation mediums, just not the OEM variants.

 

 

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/rip-microsoft-to-drop-support-for-windows-10-on-32-bit-systems/

 

 

@GoodBytes

A first step in discontinuing it.

 

That said, I do have a Windows 10 32-bit machine. It is a AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Socket 939 from 2005. Yes, it runs Windows 10. Now why 32-bit Windows instead of 64-bit? Simple, the CPU doesn't support CMPXCHG16b

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

On 5/14/2020 at 5:13 AM, LAwLz said:

Another interesting tidbit about this update that might deserve its own thread is that starting with Windows 10 2004 (may update 2020), Microsoft will no longer provide 32 bit images to OEMs. The minimum requirements have also been updated to reflect this.

This means that no new (certified) computer sold with Windows 10 (update 2004 or later) will be a 32bit installation.

 

Microsoft has however said that they will continue to provide updates for 32bit installations, and they will also continue to distribute 32bit installation mediums, just not the OEM variants.

 

 

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/rip-microsoft-to-drop-support-for-windows-10-on-32-bit-systems/

 

 

@GoodBytes

Fucking finally!

This is bloody 2020; who even HAS a 32-bit system anymore??

[Bombastinator]

7 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

Fucking finally!

This is bloody 2020; who even HAS a 32-bit system anymore??

*Tentatively raises his hand*  It’s in my basement storage and hasn’t been turned on in a long time though.  
 

There’s a lot of Linux/Unix compatibility stuff that is 32bit though.

[NumLock21]

25 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

Fucking finally!

This is bloody 2020; who even HAS a 32-bit system anymore??

businesses that still needs 32bit in order to operate their machines.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

2 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

business that still needs 32bit in order to operate their machines.

I personally find that completely unforgivable. I don't care about workflow (when upgrading ASAFP will be the least impactful to workflow in the long term) or any invisible pink unicorn concept of "absolute stability" or "absolute security" (I am looking at you, militaries of the world!). The real world does not give one single fuck about anyone's "traditions", either, it will move forward regardless, so you need to catch up, or simply get lost.

I find their insistence on using languages made by monkeys without thumbs (like COBOL) absolutely disgusting.

[NumLock21]

2 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

I personally find that completely unforgivable. I don't care about workflow (when upgrading ASAFP will be the least impactful to workflow in the long term) or any invisible pink unicorn concept of "absolute stability" or "absolute security" (I am looking at you, militaries of the world!). The real world does not give one single fuck about anyone's "traditions", either, it will move forward regardless, so you need to catch up, or simply get lost.

I find their insistence on using languages made by monkeys without thumbs (like COBOL) absolutely disgusting.

Who doesn't want new things, everyone wants new things, it just depends on whether if the investment they put in, is going to be worth it or not. Most will try to hold on for it long as possible, until there is no choice, and then they'll change, but if it's still working they aren't going to.

If you're willing pay for their new machines,. that might easily cost in the 6-8 figure digits, they will gladly "catch up".

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

8 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Who doesn't want new things, everyone wants new things, it just depends on whether if the investment they put in, is going to be worth it or not. Most will try to hold on for it long as possible, until there is no choice, and then they'll change, but if it's still working they aren't going to.

If you're willing pay for their new machines,. that might easily cost in the 6-8 figure digits, they will gladly "catch up".

But that is the thing about investments; long term costs need to also be taken into account. 6-8 figure digits is nothing in comparison to the costs and downtime risks of maintaining some relics for an extended period of time. That is the point: they SAVE money by updating their systems in quick successions, they just don't do it because they are so afraid of spending a few thousand more as an installation cost. To add, it needs new recruits which means constantly training people to use the ancient languages, which... well, to quote Prince EA: Are you preparing them for the future, or the past?

Let me give you an analogy: does it really makes sense to give an intense carpentering and civil engineering job to an elderly man who is forced to use a walker 24/7?

[GoodBytes]

54 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

I personally find that completely unforgivable. I don't care about workflow (when upgrading ASAFP will be the least impactful to workflow in the long term) or any invisible pink unicorn concept of "absolute stability" or "absolute security" (I am looking at you, militaries of the world!). The real world does not give one single fuck about anyone's "traditions", either, it will move forward regardless, so you need to catch up, or simply get lost.

See this way, you own a company, in your company you have a series of identical machines that you aquired for a few million dollars each 15 years ago. Today, they still work great! But, the computer handling the software that operate one of these machines broke. So ok, you go on Dell, HP, or whatever site to replace it. Ok fine, you have Win10 64-bit fully updated. Nice! You come to install it and notice that the driver that the PC needs to have install to communicate with your million dollars machine controller unit for the software to do the work is only in 32-bit and so, can't be installed. No problem, you go to the manufacture that made your machine and ask for a 64-bit version, ready with money in your pocket to pay for that support, you get a rejected. The company is not intrested in your 5k, or 10k you were willing to spend, they say.. you have to buy their new multi-million dollar machine.

 

That is the problem. That is why they need 32-bit support.

Now this case scenario are the better ones. Some company are locked in with a fake OS check by the maker of tools that the company uses, so they are stuck on Windows XP SP1 or SP2 or not even an SP (yes, that bad). So, even if you want to, you can't upgrade. You have to buy the new version of the tools. So at this point you go... well... everything works, not connected online, does it really matter to upgrade? I don't care about the newer features (if any). If the PC breaks, and I have to install Windows XP on the new system, blocking many performance improvements of the system, it will still be probably be faster than the original system. So there you go. This is why, if you see many factory tours, many of the computers are running Windows XP. Maybe the newer ones are on Windows 7 (as Win10 wasn't out yet at the moment of purchase). Or, even COULD upgrade. The problem is that the manufacture of the tool you are using doesn't want to provide support anymore.

 

So yea, this is the problem. So until the machine/tools used in manufacture actually breaks down, and can't be fixed easily, or they are superior tools which will help the company be more productive, they won't have any business case to replace the equipement beside "it is nice to have the last and greatest OS".

 

By the way, this applies to Linux based OS versions as well. Some software are locked into a specific OS distro and version

 

Quote

I find their insistence on using languages made by monkeys without thumbs (like COBOL) absolutely disgusting.

This is a different story. The problem is that you have non-software companies, who don't understand what is software properly, nor software development. Financial institutions and governments are like that. It is an environment which many like to point fingers when there is an issue. "Who is at fault? I want names!" type of attitudes, and not "We as a company failed. Let's all work together to fix this". So, no one wants to recode what works and proven, because if there is a bug... hey guess out? Someone will be fired or near that. Now sure, you could make a system where you have the new system being in production and the old system validates the old one for years. But then, once you go 'ok we are ready' and deploy the new system, one days, despite extensive testing,  and live double check for years, you'll have someone who will do something that was never planned, or completely forgotten, and it crap out. Millions lost. And.. once again "Who is at fault? I want names!".

 

This will never get fixed until many generations in the future, where everyone will understand software development, in my opinion.

 

[GoodBytes]

9 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

Let me give you an analogy: does it really makes sense to give an intense carpentering and civil engineering job to an elderly man who is forced to use a walker 24/7?

Depends. If he has the skill and knowledge that no one else has. Yea, for sure.

But now you bring another topic, of companies not wanting to hire people in their 50's or later because "they'll retire soon", despite teh fact that more and more people are working for longer then ever before (see: baby boomers), and people live longer than ever. When age 65 for retirement was set, most didn't live that far after. Now, you hear people living up 80's 90's, and some even passes the 100's mark. 

[jagdtigger]

7 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

long term costs need to also be taken into account. 6-8 figure digits is nothing in comparison to the costs and downtime risks of maintaining some relics for an extended period of time.

Im working at a huge company on the production line, i dont have enough fingers and toes to count how many old machine i saw running an ancient OS..... The reality of it is that unless the machine cant keep up, or it would be too expensive to repair they just wont bother. BTW even not so old things can cause downtime. Like in the new production hall that was built a few years ago. Its not a rare occurrence that something fails. Like when  the elevator that transports parts want to go higher than the top end position......

[NumLock21]

1 minute ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

But that is the thing about investments, long term costs need to also be taken into account.6-8 figure digits is nothing in comparison to the costs and downtime risks of maintaining some relics for an extended period of time. That is the point: they SAVE money by updating their systems in quick successions, they just don't do it because they are so afraid of spending a few thousand more as an installation cost. To add, it needs new recruits which means constantly training people to use the ancient languages, which... well, to quote Prince EA: Are you preparing them for the future, or the past?

Let me give you an analogy: does it really makes sense to give an intense carpentering and civil engineering job to an elderly man who is forced to use a walker 24/7?

If a business buys from the same company who made their machines, there is a high chance, there is no training needed because the software is still the same. This is like Microsoft with their Windows OS, ever since Windows 3.1 to run now Windows 10. the basic functions for using the OS, is still the same. If Microsoft were to constantly change how their OS works, for every version that comes out, I bet they'll already be out of business and not longer exist. If the old machine is constantly breaking down, then it would be better for the company to invest in a new machine. Machine is still working fine, and they just purchase a new one, just for the heck of it, then it's not worthy investment.

Investing in new machines is for the survival of the business in the long run, they just have to spend on it wisely.

[jagdtigger]

3 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

If Microsoft were to constantly change how their OS works,

Devils advocate: they do it since win8.....

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

12 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

-snip-

So then what happens when support of some of the vital software that they use ceases for the operating system they are stuck in, and any inquiry about bugs or support gets met by "if you want further support, please update your operating system"? That also screws them over, and at that point updating the OS and losing access to some of the software they need presents far less cost in downtime, monetary, or support.

Again, it costs so much more to train new students and programmers to use ancient languages than to use languages that are up to date or remain very usable.

[NumLock21]

6 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Devils advocate: they do it since win8.....

Do what since Win8?

For Win 8, the start button was moved to the side, but the underlying function of the OS was still the same. Users can install Classic Shell and it brings the start button back to where it was. For 8.1 classic shell wasn't needed, since the start button back to its original location.

[DSD27]

Why isn't chromium Edge already the default? Still hasn't come through windows update. I wonder what will happen when it does, to people who already downloaded it and have it installed. Will it be reinstalled? Will we end up with two? Because if you remember, the default Edge browser is installed in a way that it can't be uninstalled from the control panel, chromium Edge right now can.

[LAwLz]

10 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

So then what happens when support of some of the vital software that they use ceases for the operating system they are stuck in, and any inquiry about bugs or support gets met by "if you want further support, please update your operating system"? That also screws them over, and at that point updating the OS and losing access to some of the software they need presents far less cost in downtime, monetary, or support.

Again, it costs so much more to train new students and programmers to use ancient languages than to use languages that are up to date or remain very usable.

I don't think you understand how it works in businesses, especially in manufacturing.

 

"Vital software" don't cease functioning as long as they don't upgrade the OS. It's only when they upgrade the OS that they will start running into issues. If you buy a million dollar manufacturing robot and it runs Windows XP, then the manufacturer will support that OS with their updates. If you then go and install Windows 10 on that machine you will have issues and the manufacturer will go "well install the OS we provided or else we won't give you support". That's how the business world works. You get support, but only if you use the software the manufacturer provides you with.

 

This part:

14 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

"if you want further support, please update your operating system"

That never happens with the type of machines we're talking about. You might encounter that with your consumer grade software, but for specialized machines the reality is that they go "if you want further support, please install the software we provided you with, not the newer version you yourself installed". And that's assuming you can even get support anymore. A lot of the factories I've been to uses machines that are 20+ years old and the companies that once made them might not be in business anymore.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

Again, it costs so much more to train new students and programmers to use ancient languages than to use languages that are up to date or remain very usable.

The language used isn't a problem. I saw that you mentioned COBOL earlier as if that was a problem but it isn't. Even "modern" languages can run into compatibility issues with newer releases. Even looked at Microsoft Visual C++ runtime libraries? Start removing old ones and only use the new ones. See how long it takes before you start running into issues with programs not working, and that's for C++ code (not what I would call an "ancient language").

I repeat, the language used isn't the problem. It can happen with new "modern" languages (whatever that means), and it can happen with old languages.