Can LMG at least try to be reasonable? - screen recording is possible on a dual-core.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

@GDRRiley

[LAwLz]

People overestimate how much performance you actually need to do stuff. When started high-school I got a Core 2 Duo laptop with 4GB of RAM. I used that laptop all through high-school and uni. I used it to learn Photoshop, Blender, Adobe Premier, ran multiple VMs on it (Windows server and multiple domain joined Windows 7 clients), ran virtual networks, did screen recording and so on. I think a lot of performance issues people have these days are just poor settings in their programs (like using the default x264 encoder in OBS when recording) or running a bunch of shit in the background. Like someone on the first page of this thread said they used to see dual cores idle at 50% CPU usage. Dude, that's not normal. Those people got something running in the background and it's slowing down their computer.

 

But with all that being said, dual core laptops shouldn't be a thing above the ~500 dollar price point these days. We should have moved past that.

[Kilrah]

13 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Those people got something running in the background and it's slowing down their computer.

Yeah, stuff that they need to run...

[LAwLz]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

Yeah, stuff that they need to run...

If your computer uses 50% of its CPU cycles at "idle" then it's running a bunch of garbage that most certainly don't need to run.

Go through your startup processes and background processes. I am sure you will find a bunch of stuff that you can turn off without losing any functionality at this moment.

 

Run properly optimized programs, with proper settings, and shut off things you don't need. Your computer will run way faster on way less hardware.

[Nano Adam]

On 4/10/2020 at 4:16 PM, Twilight said:

So I'm watching the short-circuit episode on the new MacBook Air, and I'm 1 minute in and Alex already says something that's just not true. 

 

he goes on about how you can't multitask with a dual-core and that screen recording is a pain. so, I figured I'd debunk those things. I often have more than 10 tabs open, sometimes more than 20 in Safari, and other than getting some messages of pages reloading because I only have 8gb of ram, my 2017 dual-core MacBook Pro feels fluid still, desktop animations look smooth, and it's in general not a bad experience. 

 

now, about screen recording. I was watching the video with a bunch of other stuff open (check my Dock in the video below) and I thought I'd just debunk what he said right there, so I paused the video, didn't close any apps and just started recording. 

 

if you watch the video, you can see my cpu was fine, when I opened About This Mac you can see it spike a bit, but otherwise totally fine. keep in mind I have a web browser open with this forum and YouTube, discord and some other stuff that you can see in the Dock. 

 

now full disclosure, I did open this video in Handbrake and converted it to MP4 because it was 22mb, 2mb over the size limit, but I didn't do any sort of editing. 

 

 

 

LMG, next time proof-read your scripts because this was just straight up misinformation. 

Oh lol. That is definitely not true. I have a Dual Core MacBook and I ran a whole YouTube channel out of it. Nano Education. I even sometimes edited videos on that thing. My channel was a programming channel so I did lots of screen recording and like 10-20 tabs and many windows open with no lag. Sometimes the fan would go up, but thats it. 

[Kilrah]

Not at "idle" but with all the stuff open that they need to work with.

[mr moose]

I think people severely over estimate the hardware you require to do most things.  It's likely a consequence of living in the tech enthusiast bubble, constantly needing bigger and better and fear of not having something big enough.

[XR6]

I agree that you can multi-task with a dual core, I could probably even do that with some of the C2D and newer P4 systems I have lying around here (both CPUs are dual core). It's completely possible and actually quite usable. There's no reason why you can't multitask with a dual core CPU. 

Don't know what LMG were on about tho because I didn't watch the video

 

Kinda unrelated, but I think it'd be nice to have at least 4 cores in apple stuff, even in the base model systems.

IMO if you're paying over $1000 for a computer then you should at least get a quad core.

I have multiple dell prebuilts from 2005-2007 that are dual core systems, so I don't know why apple are still putting dual core CPUs in such expensive machines in 2020 (or even earlier than that, like 2015? something like that i dunno). 

[realpetertdm]

Dual core in 2020 is still somewhat usable with the right configuration.

 

My rig has a 6th gen Intel dual core and a GeForce 700 series GPU, the computer is fine and I can even play some video games. I've recorded gameplay using the Windows 10 game bar with stock settings, they turn out fine.

 

A quad core or more will definitely be desirable but dual core CPUs aren't, like, completely unusable or something.

[JustWantTech]

First, this is short-circuit, so less script is need. This is just Alex's opinion. 

 

Second, I have a notebook that is 2c/4t. I try to do both screen recording and play 3D games, I got lag a lot...lol. I guess Mac is more optimized to handle stuff with just 2 cores.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

15 minutes ago, JustWantTech said:

Second, I have a notebook that is 2c/4t. I try to do both screen recording and play 3D games, I got lag a lot...lol. I guess Mac is more optimized to handle stuff with just 2 cores.

from 2006 to 2011 you could get only dualcores. from 2011 to 2018 quadcore was only available in iMac's and 15" (and 17" for 2011) MacBook Pro's... 

 

only in 2018 to now did the 13" Pro get a quadcore. 

 

since the OS didn't change much since 2018 i'm guessing it has all those years of optimization. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Twilight

[AndreiArgeanu]

On 4/11/2020 at 12:07 AM, Twilight said:

also up to 4k, you pay extra for that. Mac's come standard with 1600p displays. 

But macs don't have 4k displays to start with, and can't be configured to either. There's the Lenovo S540, comes with 2560x1600 IPS, specs+price below if interested.

Spoiler

i7-10510U

13.3" QHD (2560 x 1600) IPS, glossy, 300 nits

8 GB DDR4 2666MHz (up to 16gb)

256 GB PCIe SSD (up to 512gb)

Integrated Intel® UHD Graphics

Camera: IR & 720p HD

Anodized aluminum body

Price 999.99$

 

On 4/11/2020 at 12:07 AM, Twilight said:

just because it's the same material doesn't mean that it's the same. 

I never said anything about quality, I just said it was the same material, but I've never hear yet any issues with build quality related to a razer blade.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

7 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

But macs don't have 4k displays to start with, and can't be configured to either. There's the Lenovo S540, comes with 2560x1600 IPS, specs+price below if interested.

  Reveal hidden contents

i7-10510U

13.3" QHD (2560 x 1600) IPS, glossy, 300 nits

8 GB DDR4 2666MHz (up to 16gb)

256 GB PCIe SSD (up to 512gb)

Integrated Intel® UHD Graphics

Camera: IR & 720p HD

Anodized aluminum body

Price 999.99$

 

4k on a laptop screen is pointless. Apple's Retina Display marketing isn't nonsense. if you put more pixels in it you won't be able to tell the difference. 

 

that Lenovo is basically identically specced to the quadcore 2020 Air, for $300 less. well the cpu is a touch faster but like, basically the same. 

that makes sense. with Apple you pay for macOS, support and included apps. 

 

that has several advantages. i've said for a while that i'd rather pay more for a computer that doesn't advertise things to me in my start menu. also included apps means that i don't have to give microsoft money for a proper office suite which would add like $100 to the cost of the lenovo. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Twilight
typo

[AndreiArgeanu]

I get all the other stuff but this

1 minute ago, Twilight said:

a computer that doesn't advertise things to me in my start menu

ain't true. My start menu is free from ads, they never were there to start with. Either way you can shape Windows to whatever you want it to be, including the start menu.

 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

Just now, AndreiArgeanu said:

ain't true. My start menu is free from ads, they never were there to start with. Either way you can shape Windows to whatever you want it to be, including the start menu.

every Windows 10 install i've ever had had Candy Crush installed, along swith some other junk. if i deleted it it would reinstall. 

 

i know there are registry hacks and whatever to fix that, but i simply don't wanna deal with it. i use my computer to get stuff done and consume content, not to tinker with it endlessly. i used to enjoy that, particularly with Linux, but i got tired of it. i just want my computer to work and do what i want it to do, and Windows doesn't do that unless i do a bunch of complicated registry stuff. 

[AndreiArgeanu]

Just now, Twilight said:

every Windows 10 install i've ever had had Candy Crush installed, along swith some other junk. if i deleted it it would reinstall.

That's a bit weird, that never happens to me though, no optimizations, fresh install of windows, I don't get that stuff. My laptop had Candy Crush preinstalled but, I just deleted it and that was it.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

11 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

That's a bit weird, that never happens to me though, no optimizations, fresh install of windows, I don't get that stuff. My laptop had Candy Crush preinstalled but, I just deleted it and that was it.

what version do you use? Pro is better than home for this behavior for me, but most of the Windows 10 machines i've used had Home. 

[AndreiArgeanu]

3 minutes ago, Twilight said:

what version do you use? Pro is better than home for this behavior for me, but most of the Windows 10 machines i've used had Home. 

My main PC has Windows 10 Home and my Laptop has Windows 10 Pro (originally windows 10 home when it had all the bloat Asus provided including Candy Crush).

Both are version 1909.

 

[Lord Vile]

53 minutes ago, Twilight said:

every Windows 10 install i've ever had had Candy Crush installed, along swith some other junk. if i deleted it it would reinstall. 

 

i know there are registry hacks and whatever to fix that, but i simply don't wanna deal with it. i use my computer to get stuff done and consume content, not to tinker with it endlessly. i used to enjoy that, particularly with Linux, but i got tired of it. i just want my computer to work and do what i want it to do, and Windows doesn't do that unless i do a bunch of complicated registry stuff. 

My biggest issue with Windows is how unstable it is. I’ve had to constantly restart because something decided to not work and eventually had to wipe my drive and reinstall Windows because I guess an update folder got corrupted and the update would fail at 99% every time, reset the clock to The year 2060 for some reason which bricked most of my software and I had to fix the clock restart it again. Couldn’t delete and reinstall the update either because noooo windows like you on the most recent update so it can cram more data mining extensions into everything.

[Umberto]

On 4/10/2020 at 10:16 PM, Twilight said:

I often have more than 10 tabs open, sometimes more than 20 in Safari, and other than getting some messages of pages reloading because I only have 8gb of ram, my 2017 dual-core MacBook Pro feels fluid still, desktop animations look smooth, and it's in general not a bad experience. 

 

I have the same model as you except 16gb of ram and currently Im running:

20 tabs in 5 windows in safari

3 tabs in chrome

3 projects in xcode + 1 simulator

octave-cli

slack

2 pdfs in preview

13 files in sublime

(18 days uptime)

 

And this is pretty much what's running on my macbook at any given time, except I don't always have chrome running and usually I have like twice as many safari tabs opened. I can't say I feel held back by my measly dual-core cpu (I wasn't even sure what cpu I had to be honest, I had to check before writing this post). I do incremental builds in xcode for the most part so performance there is not a problem but when I do a clean build it will take a while and the fans will go on full blast, but I can still watch youtube or whatever in the meantime. Very rarely do I have to do a clean build though. 

 

Out of curiosity, I just did 2 clean builds of two projects that took about 10 minutes to complete in total and I didn't notice any difference from doing just 1 project, except that it took longer obviously. 

 

Test number 2: Clean build of the same projects while also recording the screen. This took 18 minutes, most of which I spent playing a 12 minute youtube video and web browsing. Chrome was a lot more laggy than usual but safari worked pretty much like normal, spotlight took a lot longer than usual to show search results. No UI issues or anything like that. I also had all that other crap I mentioned above running while doing these tests. 

 

Lessons learned: Use native apps, there is some software stuff going on here. Also, for certain workloads (like gaming) where timing is important, this isn't really helping you because if it takes 80% longer to render each of your frames you will have a pretty bad experience. But for most other workloads it doesn't affect the experience much, except that it takes longer to complete the task (~4 minutes for 1 project clean build, ~10 minutes for 2 projects clean build, ~18 minutes for 2 projects clean build + screen recording) while still leaving the rest of the system in a good usable state.

 

Just looking at the core count and drawing conclusions seems like a very simplistic approach. 

[Zodiark1593]

15 hours ago, mr moose said:

I think people severely over estimate the hardware you require to do most things.  It's likely a consequence of living in the tech enthusiast bubble, constantly needing bigger and better and fear of not having something big enough.

Never underestimate the demands of Windows Update when it gets hungry feels like eating a core. When Windows update isn’t being a prick, a dual core is plenty for lots of things. When Windows Update starts ramping up (often with little or no notification), you’ll very quickly be wanting some more cores to brute force your way through it. 
 

My Atom system definitely suffers a lot when Update is running (even if it’s not actually doing anything because metered data), with CPU usages in the 60-70% ranges. With wuauserv killed off, idle cpu drops to 5-10% at 600 MHz. Windows by itself isn’t super demanding. It’s the damn update services. 
 

Source: wuauserv has been an old enemy of mine for the better part of the decade with my laptops. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

4 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Never underestimate the demands of Windows Update when it gets hungry feels like eating a core. When Windows update isn’t being a prick, a dual core is plenty for lots of things. When Windows Update starts ramping up (often with little or no notification), you’ll very quickly be wanting some more cores to brute force your way through it. 

this is an interesting comparison... my 2012 MBP is dualbooted with Windows, and it feels slower on Windows than it does on macOS... 

[Lord Vile]

23 minutes ago, Twilight said:

this is an interesting comparison... my 2012 MBP is dualbooted with Windows, and it feels slower on Windows than it does on macOS... 

Look at the battery life, my 16” has a good 11 hours on MacOS and 3 on bootcamp

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 minute ago, Lord Vile said:

Look at the battery life, my 16” has a good 11 hours on MacOS and 3 on bootcamp

that's because your 16" runs on the dGPU only in BootCamp, whereas it switches betweein iGPU and dGPU in macOS. this has been a thing since forever, like i had a 2011 15" and it had that issue too. 

 

i don't notice that since my 2012 is a 13" and does not have a dGPU... 

[Lord Vile]

1 minute ago, Twilight said:

that's because your 16" runs on the dGPU only in BootCamp, whereas it switches betweein iGPU and dGPU in macOS. this has been a thing since forever, like i had a 2011 15" and it had that issue too. 

 

i don't notice that since my 2012 is a 13" and does not have a dGPU... 

I’ve tried everything, haven’t checked since I delved into XTU and stopped the CPU using 125W at boost seems to have helped. Use it plugged in when on bootcamp anyway cos I only use it for literally 1 game.