The + is Dead - Long Live The 3! - Zen 3 information suggests big IPC and cache improvements

[5x5]

Well, some more info on Zen 3's upcoming debut has surfaced. Apparently, we can expect 8-core CCXs, +10-15% IPC over Zen 2 (yes, over the current IPC leading CPUs) and 32MB L3 shared cache in ONE CCX (hype?)
 

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According to AdoredTV's sources, the IPC gains in Zen 3 will be on par with that of Zen 2, which is between 10-15% per thread. Multi-threaded workloads could still see larger IPC gains. Zen 3 will also introduce a new CCX design, which could be among those core architecture improvements Dr. Lisa Su had alluded to earlier. Zen 3 will have one CCX with eight cores with a single L3 cache at 32 MB per CCX. Larger caches such as 48 MB or 64 MB are not indicated. With the new cache design, more number of cores now have access to a common L3 cache on the same die. This will likely reduce latency and improve gaming performance. Zen 3 will continue to use SMT-2 and not SMT-4 as was rumored earlier.

Previous reports indicated that Zen 3 could offer up to 8% IPC improvements and some reports even said that the number could be, in fact, higher than 15%. However, is now becoming increasingly clear that the IPC improvements per thread would be in the 10-15% range, which is nothing to scoff at. 

As well as the above, we know Zen 4 will use AM5 and Zen 3 will work fine on existing AM4 boards. Also hype?

Zen 4 apparently also has 1MB L2 cache? Also, AVX512 support for all those who need it.

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Also being confirmed is something that we had reported back in December 2019 — that the 5nm Zen 4 Ryzen 5000 will herald the beginning of a new socket. New information we have now is that Zen 4 will feature more cores, a 1 MB L2 cache, AVX 512 support, and will look to offer much improved IPC.

Zen 3 die diagram


Source: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Latest-Zen-3-rumor-further-reiterates-10-15-IPC-gains-per-thread-and-32-MB-of-shared-L3-cache-per-CCX-Zen-4-to-feature-1-MB-L2-cache-and-AVX-512-support.459845.0.html

 

Thoughts: A 20-25% IPC lead over Intel? Ouch, that's gonna be hard to compensate with Turbo Velocity Boost TM - my best guess, get ready for the all-in-one Intel gaming refridgerator PCs - cause the king of + will require more than 5.5GHz to compete, especially given the recent leaks of the underwhelming 10th gen CPUs. LINK: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1171688-all-your-are-belong-to-us-comet-lake-s-performance-review-leaks/

[Fasauceome]

5 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

get ready for the all-in-one Intel gaming refridgerator PCs - cause the king of + will require more than 5.5GHz to compete, especially given the recent leaks of the underwhelming 10th gen CPUs.

Intel is pushing really aggressively in the clock speed direction, but if AMD just randomly crapped out a super high clocked dual core or something as the "world's first 6GHz CPU," it really would be the best way to dunk on clock-chasing competition.

[5x5]

3 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

Intel is pushing really aggressively in the clock speed direction, but if AMD just randomly crapped out a super high clocked dual core or something as the "world's first 6GHz CPU," it really would be the best way to dunk on clock-chasing competition.

That's probably going to be the i3 10350K tbh. Or 11350K. Or i3 42690GZYM edition. Based on current naming trends

[SirWendall]

Part of me wants to wait, but I really want to get a 3900x

[TempestCatto]

For once, it may actually be worth while to upgrade from a 2700x to something in the new lineup. Which, I think I will 100% do. Now I'm hype!

 

AVX512 support. Looks like Intel will be a dead in the water choice anymore.

[TVwazhere]

Personally I'm just happy Zen 3 will still be on an AM4 socket. 2017-2021(+?) socket support is really solid 5 years of people not needing to buy a new motherboard to get a decent CPU upgrade, especially for those that bought a good motherboard to begin with.

[Zando_]

17 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

+10-15% IPC over Zen 2

Good christ 

[5x5]

5 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

Personally I'm just happy Zen 3 will still be on an AM4 socket. 2017-2021(+?) socket support is really solid 5 years of people not needing to buy a new motherboard to get a decent CPU upgrade, especially for those that bought a good motherboard to begin with.

2020 but yeah, still over 4 years of active support and new releases

[TVwazhere]

Just now, 5x5 said:

2020 but yeah, still over 4 years of active support and new releases

I'm personally counting 2021 since Zen 3 and general AM4 socket boards main life will extend far into that year, if not the entire duration. We aernt rumored to get Zen 3 announced until "later this year" which could be fall or close to winter if Zen2 was anything to go by (each CPU cycle has been just over a year with the start of Zen1 in March 2017)

[Bombastinator]

18 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

Intel is pushing really aggressively in the clock speed direction, but if AMD just randomly crapped out a super high clocked dual core or something as the "world's first 6GHz CPU," it really would be the best way to dunk on clock-chasing competition.

My memory is that there are physics barriers preventing 6gjz from being possible on non exotic cooling.  In any case AMD is beating intel with IPC not clock.  Their chips are clocking lower than intel at least in the gaming space.

[5x5]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

My memory is that there are physics barriers preventing 6gjz from being possible on non exotic cooling.  In any case AMD is beating intel with IPC not clock.  Their chips are clocking lower than intel at least in the gaming space.

tbh the bigger improvement will come from reduced cache latency - I expect gaming performance to go from dead even to AMD's favour if 10th gen turns out as disappointing as the initial leaks suggest.

[Bombastinator]

One thing worth keeping in mind is AMD seems to be a bit optimistic with its numbering schemes.  Just because a cpu has a 3xxx name doesn’t always mean its zen2, and a 4xxx number doesn’t mean the cpu is actually zen3 

[paddy-stone]

Nice, will have to see if it's worth upgrading any of my 3x zen builds when 2021 brings the Zen 4

 

[ThePD]

The leak leaves me hopeful, but I tend do discredit AdoredTV since his Zen 2 leaks were so incredibly off.

[Valentyn]

22 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Good christ 

 

Finally a worthy potential upgrade for my 5820K!

[ThePD]

1 minute ago, Valentyn said:

Finally a worthy potential upgrade for my 5820K!

My 5820K was a horrible overclocker. I am looking forward to Zen 3 as my replacement to the 5820k.

[Valentyn]

2 minutes ago, ThePD said:

My 5820K was a horrible overclocker. I am looking forward to Zen 3 as my replacement to the 5820k.

Same here! Mine at max topped out at 4.3Ghz, but needed too much voltage. 4.0Ghz was the best it reached with stability without needing too much.

It's been 5 years though, and still going strong.

[Zando_]

10 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Finally a worthy potential upgrade for my 5820K!

Have seen people jumping from older HEDT to Ryzen, it's a solid platform if you don't mind losing some HEDT features and manual OCing ability. I actually went in reverse lol, hopped from a 2700X back to X58, then to X99. 
 

5 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Same here! Mine at max topped out at 4.3Ghz, but needed too much voltage. 4.0Ghz was the best it reached with stability without needing too much.

It's been 5 years though, and still going strong.

Indeed, these still pack a punch. Shame about the clocks though, what voltage were you capping at? My 5820K ended up at 4.5/1.35v, but I usually ran it at 4.2/1.2v because it was much cooler, and since I only play at 75Hz I don't notice the performance difference. The 5960X I have now will do 4.7 at 1.3v (caps at 4.8, even with 1.35v/2.1v vCore/Input Voltage it's shaky), I have it at 4.5/around 1.2v right now because again, don't notice the 200Mhz difference at my refresh rate, and it runs cooler. Uncore (RING in the BIOS most of the time) on both capped at 3.7Ghz, as is usual for boards without an OC socket. 

[RejZoR]

My 5820K runs at 4.5GHz at only 1.185V. It's tempting to move on, but I'm worried I'm not gonna see that much of a difference. Was thinking of getting some higher end Core i7 5000 or 6000 series, but they are hard to find and clocks are questionable. More cores wouldn't mean much if I had problems hitting at least 4.5GHz as well.

 

I'm also worried I'd spend 800-1000€ on all new platform and in the end won't see any difference in gaming where I spend the most time. I'd much rather spend that much on all new graphic card then and see massive difference.

 

My other dilemma is if I should go with Zen 3 as last AM4 and keep it for longer just like 5820K or wait for AM5 and then have some options for upgrades. Then again rumors say AM5 chips should still fit into AM4 slots even with less features so I don't know.

[Bombastinator]

28 minutes ago, ThePD said:

My 5820K was a horrible overclocker. I am looking forward to Zen 3 as my replacement to the 5820k.

Zen2 is also a horrible overclocker.  Looking at the difference between zen+ and zen2 I am not hopeful that there will be more OC room.

[5x5]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Zen2 is also a horrible overclocker.  Looking at the difference between zen+ and zen2 I am not hopeful that there will be more OC room.

Zen 2 compensates for that with IPC, though. The IPC jump is equivalent to Zen 2 just running at 5GHz with the same IPC as Zen+

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, 5x5 said:

Zen 2 compensates for that with IPC, though. The IPC jump is equivalent to Zen 2 just running at 5GHz with the same IPC as Zen+

Yes.  But it still doesn’t OC much. Or more accurately it seems to do its own automatic overclocking, and that enhanced number is built into the specs

[5x5]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Yes.  But it still doesn’t OC much. Or more accurately it seems to do its own automatic overclocking, and that enhanced number is built into the specs

I mean most CPUs and GPUs these days come with boosting and auto-OCing which makes manual overclocking almost obsolete in most cases. A 2060 will boost so high that manual tuning would only net you about 100-200MHz at most

[DildorTheDecent]

Fugg, I'm upgrading again

[schwellmo92]

1 hour ago, 5x5 said:

tbh the bigger improvement will come from reduced cache latency - I expect gaming performance to go from dead even to AMD's favour if 10th gen turns out as disappointing as the initial leaks suggest.

This post references Adored’s video but they forgot to mention he also said cache latency would be slightly higher.