Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

I like Linus' videos but....

Just now, WereCatf said:

So, you're saying there are different types of ESD depending on where it is accumulated from and that magically determines whether it can or can't damage equipment?

no, I am saying the damage occurs when the parts are handled and installed in the pc,   When the parts are on the pallet they are in anti static bags, they are protected, they only become no longer protected when they are physically removed from those bags and installed in the pc.  And that doesn't matter if you do it at home or in a factory.   That is why the pallet is irrelevant.

 

 

 

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, mr moose said:

no, I am saying the damage occurs when the parts are handled and installed in the pc,   When the parts are on the pallet they are in anti static bags, they are protected, they only become no longer protected when they are physically removed from those bags and installed in the pc.  And that doesn't matter if you do it at home or in a factory.   That is why the pallet is irrelevant.

You do realize the charge accumulates in the person doing the unpacking and handling the parts? If they're taking parts off of a pallet, the charge accumulates in them and when they go and handle parts...well, it's no longer irrelevant, is it? Not to mention multiple people working in close proximity, possibly occasionally rubbing off on each other and so on. In a factory-environment there are a lof of pathways for a charge to accumulate, but here you are claiming it's all irrelevant because static charge is magical and only matters if it occurs while you have a component in your hands, not before it.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

You do realize the charge accumulates in the person doing the unpacking and handling the parts? If they're taking parts off of a pallet, the charge accumulates in them and when they go and handle parts...well, it's no longer irrelevant, is it? Not to mention multiple people working in close proximity, possibly occasionally rubbing off on each other and so on. In a factory-environment there are a lof of pathways for a charge to accumulate, but here you are claiming it's all irrelevant because static charge is magical and only matters if it occurs while you have a component in your hands, not before it.

Did you read what I said? 

 

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

no, I am saying the damage occurs when the parts are handled and installed in the pc,   When the parts are on the pallet they are in anti static bags, they are protected, they only become no longer protected when they are physically removed from those bags and installed in the pc And that doesn't matter if you do it at home or in a factory.   That is why the pallet is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Again, parts on a pallet are protected, so it doesn't matter how much static builds up during transit or packing or unpacking.  What matters is the charge that builds up when the part is taken out of its protective packet and installed in the PC.    Again,  pallet wrapping is moot.

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Again, parts on a pallet are protected, so it doesn't matter how much static builds up during transit or packing or unpacking.  What matters is the charge that builds up when the part is taken out of its protective packet and installed in the PC.    Again,  pallet wrapping is moot.

Okay, magical static-charge. Mmkay. A person accumulating a charge before they've taken a component out of its bag is irrelevant, because the charge knows to hold back and only newly-acquired charge is relevant.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/17/2020 at 9:46 PM, GoldenLag said:

they usually are fairly careful with hardware they cant replace. 

Image result for linus dropping xeon platinum\

AMD Ryzen 3 3200G / Sapphire R9 290X / 16gb (2x8) Kingston ValueRam @ 2666Mhz / Gigabyte A320M-S2H / Kingston A400 120GB M.2 SSD / WD Blue 2.5" 1TB HDD / Cooler Master MWE450 / iCute Thing / LG 22MK400H-B 1920x1080 @ 75Hz

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

Okay, magical static-charge. Mmkay. A person accumulating a charge before they've taken a component out of its bag is irrelevant, because the charge knows to hold back and only newly-acquired charge is relevant.

This isn't that complicated.  read the article before you post again, what I am telling you is literally founded on studies on electronic manufacturing since the 1970's.  The evidence I linked and what you are desperately trying to argue against is established in production lines and specifically the build process of PC's, not the unpacking of pallets.

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mr moose said:

This isn't that complicated.  read the article before you post again, what I am telling you is literally founded on studies on electronic manufacturing since the 1970's.  The evidence I linked and what you are desperately trying to argue against is established in production lines and specifically the build process of PC's, not the unpacking of pallets.

Yes, yes. I'll get back to you once I've researched on how magical static-charge that knows to discharge only if it has been accumulated after a component was taken out of a bag and not before works.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

Yes, yes. I'll get back to you once I've researched on how magical static-charge that knows to discharge only if it has been accumulated after a component was taken out of a bag and not before works.

 

Even if you don't want to educate yourself on the subject, you should at least know that trying to argue the person who unpacks the pallet at HP is the same person who sits on the production line assembling PC's is grasping at straws.    

 

I made a statement, I backed it up with evidence, I am now trying to illustrate how the person unpacking a pallet has nothing to do with the person who assembles on a production line,  Internet arguments never change.  

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Even if you don't want to educate yourself on the subject, you should at least know that trying to argue the person who unpacks the pallet at HP is the same person who sits on the production line assembling PC's is grasping at straws.

I don't work at HP, so I don't know who is or isn't unpacking the pallets. Last I checked, though, the components do not appear out of thin air in the employees hands, and static electricity has plenty of ways of accumulating.

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I backed it up with evidence

Of factory-conditions.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

I don't work at HP, so I don't know who is or isn't unpacking the pallets. Last I checked, though, the components do not appear out of thin air in the employees hands, and static electricity has plenty of ways of accumulating.

righto.

 

1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

Of factory-conditions.

If you'd bothered to read what I linked you'd know why that is a moot point.

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, mr moose said:

If you'd bothered to read what I linked you'd know why that is a moot point.

If you'd bothered to read what I said, you'd know why that isn't a moot point.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Literally the ONLY precaution I always do before fiddling with internals is unplug or turn off system on PSU and then press ON button to discharge capacitors. That's on already built systems that were powered on just moments ago. Because that's a legitimate issue of having power in components and shortcircuiting something. Other than that, load of over-worrying BS. Build the damn thing on wooden table and you'll never have problems. Flooring has always been insulating where I was doing builds, either vinyl floor or laminate which also has plastic layer on top. No issues ever. Call it survival bias all you want, 20 years of constant fiddling and it becomes a statistic.

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X | ASUS Strix X570-E | G.Skill 32GB 3600MHz CL16 | PALIT RTX 3080 10GB GamingPro | Samsung 850 Pro 2TB | Seagate Barracuda 8TB | Sound Blaster AE-9 MUSES

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

. Call it survival bias all you want, 20 years of constant fiddling and it becomes a statistic.

20 years of drinking only coke and still having all your teeth is also a statistic, but if you try to use it as proof coke doesn't rot teeth then It holds less value than an anecdote,   especially in the face of 50 years of actual research. 

 

 

 

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mr moose said:

20 years of drinking only coke and still having all your teeth is also a statistic, but if you try to use it as proof coke doesn't rot teeth then It holds less value than an anecdote,   especially in the face of 50 years of actual research. 

 

 

 

People drink coke for far more than 20 years and it doesn't just erode teeth more than lets say lemonade or orange juice and doesn't dissolve liver. Yet we still see that bs propagated non stop how coke is literally a 30% hydrochloric acid in a soft drink bottle.

 

Instead of everyone sperging about ESD as this evil boogeyman and making people literally fear of touching things like there will just be lightnings zapping all over the place, how about explaining actual required conditions? Literally never seen them ever.

 

It's always "don't do it on carpet", but no one ever explained or said if ESD is a problem if both computer and you are not grounded, if both are grounded or just one or the other. Coz that would be actually helpful. Coz in my case, it was always both not grounded. Computer on wooden desk and standing on vinyl or laminate flooring. If we're talking, then lets talk properly. Was because of that then? Neither being grounded? Just making people fear of touching shit because "ESD" is getting really annoying...

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X | ASUS Strix X570-E | G.Skill 32GB 3600MHz CL16 | PALIT RTX 3080 10GB GamingPro | Samsung 850 Pro 2TB | Seagate Barracuda 8TB | Sound Blaster AE-9 MUSES

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

People drink coke for far more than 20 years and it doesn't just erode teeth more than lets say lemonade or orange juice and doesn't dissolve liver. Yet we still see that bs propagated non stop how coke is literally a 30% hydrochloric acid in a soft drink bottle.

 

Instead of everyone sperging about ESD as this evil boogeyman and making people literally fear of touching things like there will just be lightnings zapping all over the place, how about explaining actual required conditions? Literally never seen them ever.

 

It's always "don't do it on carpet", but no one ever explained or said if ESD is a problem if both computer and you are not grounded, if both are grounded or just one or the other. Coz that would be actually helpful. Coz in my case, it was always both not grounded. Computer on wooden desk and standing on vinyl or laminate flooring. If we're talking, then lets talk properly. Was because of that then? Neither being grounded? Just making people fear of touching shit because "ESD" is getting really annoying...

 

No one is making it out to be a boogey man,  please read the thread again.  It's literally a real thing that people should take precaution against, not the 7 posts telling people they don't have to do anything and everything will be fine.

 

I don't care how many computers you've built, I don't even care if your only 12 years old, static can and does kill parts, the precautions are so easy and cheap there is just no excuse to tell people not to bother.  L:et alone carry on an unnecessary argument about it in the face of the evidence.

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And yet you still haven't actually explained it for 3 cases I've given. Yeah, you're all making it a boogeyman by calling it this scary invisible thing that can kill your 1000€ graphic card just like that... If people actually understood WHY it happens exactly and under what conditions exactly, not just that "it can happen" so do this silly ritual of touching metal things all over the room and wearing lightning rods up our asses just to be sure. Coz to date I haven't seen anyone explain it in such detail which is still actually very basic.

 

Like, would static jump between user and device if both are not grounded. Or if both are. Coz from my basic knowledge of electricity and electrical discharge, ESD only happens when one or the other is grounded, but not when both both or none are. Coz ESD can only happen if one party acts as a capacitor and then discharges when it touches a grounded party. Yes? No? Can also happen with both are not grounded via some sort of physical phenomenon?

 

That's the level of "science" I'd always like to hear about ESD, but never see it. Anywhere. Coz yeah, it's always the boogeyman level of explanation: "ESD is scary, be afraid and do ritual of touching metal things and it'll go away..."

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X | ASUS Strix X570-E | G.Skill 32GB 3600MHz CL16 | PALIT RTX 3080 10GB GamingPro | Samsung 850 Pro 2TB | Seagate Barracuda 8TB | Sound Blaster AE-9 MUSES

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

And yet you still haven't actually explained it for 3 cases I've given. Yeah, you're all making it a boogeyman by calling it this scary invisible thing that can kill your 1000€ graphic card just like that... If people actually understood WHY it happens exactly and under what conditions exactly, not just that "it can happen" so do this silly ritual of touching metal things all over the room and wearing lightning rods up our asses just to be sure. Coz to date I haven't seen anyone explain it in such detail which is still actually very basic.

 

Like, would static jump between user and device if both are not grounded. Or if both are. Coz from my basic knowledge of electricity and electrical discharge, ESD only happens when one or the other is grounded, but not when both both or none are. Coz ESD can only happen if one party acts as a capacitor and then discharges when it touches a grounded party. Yes? No? Can also happen with both are not grounded via some sort of physical phenomenon?

 

That's the level of "science" I'd always like to hear about ESD, but never see it. Anywhere. Coz yeah, it's always the boogeyman level of explanation: "ESD is scary, be afraid and do ritual of touching metal things and it'll go away..."

 

I posted a link earlier and have repeatedly mentioned it.  If you are not willing to read it then that is your problem.  the science is pretty solid.

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

And yet you still haven't actually explained it for 3 cases I've given.

There is nothing to say, some people get a way with building a computer on static intense carpet while rubbing a balloon on their head, that doesn't mean static doesn't kill parts and it certainly doesn't mean we should tell people not to care about it.

 

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mr moose said:

Here's a whole heap of posts in this thread alone from people using survivor bias to make it sound like ESD mitigation is pointless. and that ESD will not damage your PC:

 

For anyone spotting my quote in this post, I didn't say ESD won't damage your PC. I would say the risk is so minimal for me historically, I don't worry about it. 

 

Weigh the risks up for yourself. Know that there is a chance it can happen. But a lot of folks really don't care or worry enough to take any precautions, because it's a very small chance it can happen.

 

Now, I'm off to eat jam on toast, while wearing a white shirt WITHOUT wearing a bib, because I'm just that kinda guy, YOLO.

Le PC: Gigiabyte Gaming 3, AMD 2700x, Yeston RX 550 4gb, Corsair 16gb, Corsair 450w PSU & Aerocool QS240 case. Linux, Elementary OS.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IdlePX said:

For anyone spotting my quote in this post, I didn't say ESD won't damage your PC. I would say the risk is so minimal for me, so I don't worry about it. 

 

Weigh the risks up for yourself. Know that there is a chance it can happen. But a lot of folks really don't care or worry enough to take any precautions. 

 

Now, I'm off to eat jam on toast, while wearing a white shirt WITHOUT wearing a bib, because I'm just that kinda guy, YOLO.

And you are more than within your right to hold and even express that opinion, however it's hard for people to weigh up the risks when they don't know the risks because the last 7 posts told them it was nothing to worry about because they hadn't killed anything in the last 25 years.  You see what I mean?

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@mr moose I'm not going into it with you. You're impossible to talk too. I was only commenting for anyone that saw my post quoted by yourself.

Le PC: Gigiabyte Gaming 3, AMD 2700x, Yeston RX 550 4gb, Corsair 16gb, Corsair 450w PSU & Aerocool QS240 case. Linux, Elementary OS.

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, IdlePX said:

@mr moose I'm not going into it with you. You're impossible to talk too. I was only commenting for anyone that saw my post quoted by yourself.

???

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mr moose said:

That's irrelevant.  The damage has nothing to do with unpacking pallets, or shipping. it comes solely from building the machines.  People (human beings) handling the parts during assembly.

Do you have any valid factual statistics on people killing their parts from esd?

 

You cant tell people that their experience is nothing but anecdotal evidence without providing any evidence of your own. 

 

Saying "they are tested in the factory so if its doa then it was probably esd that killed it" is an asinine statement.

 

Id be willing to bet if we could some how count the number of people who practice no esd protection and found out how many had doa parts it would be a tiny tiny percentage. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tl;dr:

Esd CAN kill your components, but realistically it wont. Taking minor precautions is enough, and if you are unsure or have really expensive components, just discharge yourself from time to time and avoid buing on carpet, etc.

 

I remember a jayztwocents video where he actively tries to kill stuff with ESD, you can see the arcs from his figer to the components, and iirc nothing dies. Not even usb ports. That means stuff cant die? NO, but it shows how resistant your hardware is.

 

For me, the fact that tech reviewers "mistreat" their hardware is good, because it makes me less afraid to damage stuff since they basically spit and kick the hardware and it still works. 

 

 

 

ALSO: A BIT unrelated, but can we agree that water kills hardware? Cool. Everybody knows that, everybody agrees that water is waaaaaaay more dangerous than esd. So I didnt find the jayztwocents video about esd, but I found this one. It goes without saying that this is insane and nobody should try it, but the video card just refuses to die (after the video he flashes a new bios and it works):

https://youtu.be/iJUl_IqDbNA

Ultra is stupid. ALWAYS.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just read first couple sentences - you would hate me, my way of storing and handling if you think Linus is bad lol.  

 

I moonwalk like Michael Jackson in wool socks while building PC's and concern myself approx. 0% about ESD.

Workstation Laptop: Dell Precision 7540, Xeon E-2276M, 32gb DDR4, Quadro T2000 GPU, 4k display

Ryzen Rig 2: ASrock B450 Pro4 ATX, Ryzen 7 1700 @ 4.2ghz all core 1.4vCore, AMD R9 Fury X w/ Swiftech KOMODO waterblock, Custom Loop 2x240mm + 1x120mm radiators in push/pull 16gb (2x8) 3600mhz V-Color Skywalker (or 4x8gb DDR4 2666mhz for large tasks), Corsair HX850 PSU, 128gb Patriot Scorch NVMe Win 10 boot drive, 500gb Samsung 840 EVO SSD, 512GB TeamGroup MS30 M.2 SATA III, CoolerMaster HAF XM Case.  Zalman K600S keyboard, Zalman ZM-GM1 mouse, Viotek GN24C 24" 1080p 144hz curved and Hannspree HF207 as 2nd monitor

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/37004594?

Ryzen Rig 1: ASUS B350-PRIME ATX, Ryzen 7 1700, Sapphire R9 Fury Tri-X Nitro 4gb HBM, 16gb (2x8) 3200mhz V-Color Skywalker, ANTEC Earthwatts 750w PSU, MasterLiquid Lite 120 AIO cooler in Push/Pull config as rear exhaust, 250gb Samsung 850 Evo SSD, Patriot Burst 240gb SSD, Cougar MX330-X Case.  Zalman K600S keyboard, Zalman ZM-GM1 mouse, Acer XF270HU 2560x1440 144hz IPS monitor

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/37628874?

Dwight: The Mixed Metals Loop Media Center.  Ask me about it.  Currently decommissioned to move to an mATX setup on a new MOBO once I pick one out (getting its facelift as of June 2020 have new air cooler, drives etc.  About 60% finished.  Will no longer be a closed loop system.  Slight update, upgraded to larger SSD, and air cooling installed Arctic Alpine cooler.

Schrute: ASUS M5A99FX Pro R2.0, FX 8350, Sapphire R9 Fury Tri-X Nitro 4gb HBM, 16gb (4x4) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600mhz, Sparkle/FSP 650w PSU, Corsair H100i GTX 240mm AIO w/ 12mm thick fans to fit in top exhaust, 256gb TIMETEC SSD, 1tb WDBlack HDD, Rosewill Nautilus 1.0 case.  DSI 90-Key Mechanical Keyboard w/ Cherry Red switches, Zalman gaming mouse

Micro Form Factor Dell OptiPlex 3040: Dell 0MGK50 A02, i3-6100T, 2x4gb DDR3 1600, Team Group 120gb SSD, 500gb Seagate 7mm HDD attached storage, Windows 10 Pro, Logitech K400+, USB Wifi adapter all vesa mounted to the back of a 37" 1080p TV 

Linux Box: Toshiba Laptop, i7 620M, NVS graphics, 4gb ram tinker toy at the moment.  Running Manjaro XFCE at the moment.

Home Security: ZOSI 8 channel CCTV (4 used at this time, 1080p) DVR H.265+, 3tb HGST Enterprise HDD, ASUS monitor for display

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×