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should youtubers do a "linux test" on products they review?

52 minutes ago, papajo said:

Is it?

I said regularly, as in, in every video or every other video. Linus also did videos on all kinds of weird products like JIBO, doesn't mean these products are regular on the channel.

51 minutes ago, Twilight said:

ii enjoy the learning and troubleshooting, but for serious things like school 90% of the time i just grabbed my Mac if i needed to do something... 

Same. I tried Linux because I like to tinker with tech, and I'm by no means sorry for doing so and may do it again in the future. In fact, I'm thinking of making a do-it-yourself CCTV camera system in my home and I'll likely use Linux for that. But for work and daily gaming? Nah. 

50 minutes ago, papajo said:

1)The inferior OS in this case is windows not linux windows is just the popular OS due to historical reasons, linux is not a substitute for windows its a different -and I as well as other people may argue- better OS. (https://www.lifewire.com/windows-vs-linux-mint-2200609 , https://www.infoworld.com/article/3026209/why-linux-is-still-better-than-windows-10.html  ) 

2) those $3 keys of windows are illegal and microsoft disables them from time to time. 

3)When was the last time you tried linux? because using a computer for entertainment especially for webrowsing can be faster and safer on linux and the general experience is the same because they are many user friendly distros out there 

1) Can't play most worthwhile games or can only play them after jumping through various hoops, can't run industry standard programs or have to jump through hoops to do it, a bunch of programs that I use every day (WordWeb, 4K Video Downloader, etc.) don't exist for Linux, have to use a crappy Microsoft App Store to get programs instead of being able to download the files wherever I want and run them how I want, can't find solutions to problems as easily because there just isn't as much information out there as there is for Windows, and so on and so forth. Inferior OS.

 

2) I've been using some of these keys for years. Even if I have to re-buy a $3 key someday, I think it's more than worth it considering I don't have to deal with the problems in 1)

 

3) A couple years ago. Safety isn't a concern for me as (like most LTT viewers, I would imagine) I'm tech savvy-enough to know how to avoid viruses, and when I do get some Malwarebytes and Windows Defender catch them just fine (plus there's always Process Explorer if push comes to shove). I had no problems using Mint Xfce, so user friendliness isn't a concern there. What is a concern is everything under 1)

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57 minutes ago, Giganthrax said:

I said regularly, as in, in every video or every other video. Linus also did videos on all kinds of weird products like JIBO, doesn't mean these products are regular on the channel.

That's not an argument, JIBO is a product as you said a subcategory of tech gadgets so yea techgadgets bring traffic, linux is not a product its a category it self (since there are multiple iterations or OSs if you like of it and its not limited as an OS itself there can be other applications, or reasons to make a video which includes linux such as the dual boot mac/windows video they made that needs linux in order to work) 

 

57 minutes ago, Giganthrax said:

1) Can't play most worthwhile games or can only play them after jumping through various hoops, can't run industry standard programs or have to jump through hoops to do it, a bunch of programs that I use every day (WordWeb, 4K Video Downloader, etc.) don't exist for Linux, have to use a crappy Microsoft App Store to get programs instead of being able to download the files wherever I want and run them how I want, can't find solutions to problems as easily because there just isn't as much information out there as there is for Windows, and so on and so forth. Inferior OS.

Well this part is filled with misconception and with arguments that dont relate to linux as a OS. 

 

for example (and I mentioned this since my first post) the only real obstacle for linux to become mainstream is gaming. 

 

But that's not because linux "cant play" worthwhile games as in there is a defect in the OS that doesnt allow it, technically speaking you could play everysingle game out there and at better FPS rates compared to windows. 

 

The reason many games are not available for linux is of legal nature, most games are developed using a closed API called DirectX, DirectX is Microsoft's intellectual property so there is no way to officially and natively develope support for it not because linux couldnt handle direct X but just microsoft wouldnt want to and certainly will not provide any support for that, the workarounds exist because people (without microsoft's support) tried to translate part of the directX api into openGL or vulkan most recently. 

 

That being said as I mentioned aswell in previous posts this gap gets smaller and smaller because a) the workarounds getting better and better b) Support of other APIs such as vulkan increases.  and also There are AAA titles (not the majority but not just a few either such as DOOM,HITMAN,DEUS EX,CSGO,TF2,BIOSHOCK inf,Boarderlands2,9. Metro 2033 Redux / Metro Last Light Redux etc etc) which run on linux natively also steam does too.  btw what I do is to run linux mainly and when I game I use KVM (close to metal virtualization) to play windows games like this 

 

 

 

Most industry standard programs started as linux programs or atleast can run on linux natively, the ones that dont usually can run as well e.g Adobe products and the "hoops" you are talking about are just a matter of a few clicks like if you can install a cracked version of photoshop in windows you have the necessery skills and braincells to run it on linux and again mostly in those situations its out of DRM reasons that you have to do extra steps rather than anything else. 

 

All the other programs that an average user needs run natively on linux or are subsitutes with equally strong if not stronger atlernatives..

 

Just a few examples of REAL average user programs (because so far I get like examples for highly specialized ones even photoshop cant be said to be an average user program like most people I know dont even know how to add captions on an image lol paint is what I consider the main tool for average users when it comes to image editing.. ) 

 

Want to play/stream videos ? VLC/Kodi/Plex

Want to do office jobs ? Libre office/Open Office

Want to browse the net? Chrome/firefox 

Want to listen to music? Spotify

Want to listen to your music files Audacious/QMMP

Want to edit your recorded voicefiles music? Audacity

Want to edit your pictures? GIMP

Want to torrent ? Qbittorrent

Want to offline manage your emails? Thunderbird

Want to videocall your relatives? Skype,Google hangouts, Viber

 

And so on and so forth also please mind that these programs mentioned above are a) natively running on linux without the use of "hoops" b) just serve as a reference since there are many more freely available alternatives 

And also notice that most of them are the standard (on in the top3 at least) software for the same use case in windows. 

 

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13 minutes ago, papajo said:

That's not an argument, JIBO is a product as you said a subcategory of tech gadgets so yea techgadgets bring traffic, linux is not a product is a category it self (since there are multiple iterations or OSs if you like of it and its not limited as an OS itself there can be other applications, or reasons to make a video which includes linux such as the dual boot mac/windows video they made that needs linux in order to work) 

 

Well this part is filled with misconception and with arguments that dont relate to linux as a OS. 

 

for example (and I mentioned this since my first post) the only real obstacle for linux to become mainstream is gaming. 

 

But that's not because linux "cant play" worthwhile games as in there is a defect in the OS that doesnt allow it, technically speaking you could play everysingle game out there and at better FPS rates compared to windows. 

 

The reason many games are not available for linux is of legal nature, most games are developed using a closed API called DirectX, DirectX is Microsoft's intelectual property so there is no way to officially and natively develops support of it not because linux couldnt handle direct X but just microsoft wouldnt wanted to and certainly will not provide any support for that, the workarounds exist because people (without microsoft's support) tried to translate part of the directX api into openGL or vulkan most recently. 

 

That being said as I mentioned aswell in previous posts this gap gets smaller and smaller because a) the workarounds getting better and better b) Support of other APIs such as vulkan increases.  and also There are AAA titles (not the majority but not just a few either such as DOOM,HITMAN,DEUS EX,CSGO,TF2,BIOSHOCK inf,Boarderlands2,9. Metro 2033 Redux / Metro Last Light Redux etc etc) which run on linux natively also steam does too.  btw what I do is to run linux mainly and when I game I use KVM (close to metal virtualization) to play windows games like this 

 

 

 

Most industry standard programs started as linux programs or atleast can run on linux natively, the ones that dont usually can run as well e.g Adobe products and the "hoops" you are talking about are just a matter of a few clicks like if you can install a cracked version of photoshop in windows you have the necessery skills and braincells to run it on linux and again mostly in those situations its out of DRM reasons that you have to do extra steps rather than anything else. 

 

All the other programs that an average user needs run natively on linux or are subsitutes with equally strong if not stronger atlernatives..

 

Just a few examples of REAL average user programs (because so far I get like examples for highly specialized ones even photoshop cant be said to be an average user program like most people I know dont even know how to correct add captions on image lol paint is what I consider the main tool for average users when it comes to image editing.. ) 

 

Want to play/stream videos ? VLC/Kodi/Plex

Want to do office jobs ? Libre office/Open Office

Want to browse the net? Chrome/firefox 

Want to listen to music? Spotify

Want to listen to your music files Audacious/QMMP

Want to edit your recorded voicefiles music? Audacity

Want to edit your pictures? GIMP

Want to torrent ? Qbittorrent

Want to offline manage your emails? Thunderbird

Want to videocall your relatives? Skype,Google hangouts, Viber

 

And so on and so forth also please mind that these programs mentioned above are a) natively running on linux without the use of "hoops" b) just serve as a reference since there are many more freely available alternatives 

And also notice that most of them are the standard (on in the top3 at least) software for the same use case in windows. 

 

Or instead of having to jump through hopes to play the game you want. you can use windows and just install and play them.

 

Running a windows virtual machine through linux isnt really the same as saying you can play games on linux.

 

Why would I want to run a virtual machine of windows when i can just run windows? Why would i use linux alternative programs when i can just use the programs i like?

 

I have nothing against linux. If you like it great. But for me (and alot of people) it offers nothing worth the switch. literally nothing.

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11 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Or instead of having to jump through hopes to play the game you want. you can use windows and just install and play them.

 

Again game support as I mentioned so many times is the only valid reason for average users not to want to jumb into linux, in the message you quote I was just explaining why this happens because the user I was responding to implied inferiority of the OS being the reason. 

 

11 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Running a windows virtual machine through linux isnt really the same as saying you can play games on linux.

It doesnt but having said that there are many games that do run natively on linux, the reason to KVM a windows OS for gaming is because you like everything else on linux and dont want to dual boot in order to game 

 

11 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Why would i use linux alternative programs when i can just use the programs i like?

Most programs you like (as in most programs that are used mainly by the general public of windows users) run on linux as well we are talking for the ones that dont, 

 

11 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

it offers nothing worth the switch. literally nothing.

well that might be true but what happens to most people I know is that they just dont know what linux offers because its better in many technical and ethical ways. 

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1 minute ago, papajo said:

well that might be true but what happens to most people I know is that they just dont know what linux offers because its better in many technical and ethical ways. 

Plenty of people know about Linux. I dont know why some people like to act like its some dark hidden secret.

 

What it offers isnt enough for people to make the switch.

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Just now, RonnieOP said:

Plenty of people know about Linux. I dont know why some people like to act like its some dark hidden secret.

plenty of people know that linux exists that doesnt mean that they know about it 

 

2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

What it offers isnt enough for people to make the switch.

Just to prove my point, what does linux offer? I am not trying to pass as a smart ass but out of experience I am pretty sure that you are missing the points that make linux distros a better choice and just dismiss them because you are used to windows and dont really care to find out the pros and cons. 

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2 minutes ago, papajo said:

I am pretty sure that you are missing the points that make linux distros a better choice and just dismiss them because you are used to windows and dont really care to find out the pros and cons. 

that's bullshit. if windows works for that person leave them be. 

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1 minute ago, Twilight said:

that's bullshit. if windows works for that person leave them be. 

Am I holding a gun to anybody's head? I just try to dismiss invalid complains or assumptions

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3 minutes ago, papajo said:

plenty of people know that linux exists that doesnt mean that they know about it 

 

Just to prove my point, what does linux offer? I am not trying to pass as a smart ass but out of experience I am pretty sure that you are missing the points that make linux distros a better choice and just dismiss them because you are used to windows and dont really care to find out the pros and cons. 

Just because YOU think its a better option doesnt mean everyone does. Its fine if you enjoy it.

 

I know the pros and cons. Again Linux isnt some new exciting thing. Ive used it on and off for the past 16-17 years.

 

Again, it doesnt offer anything to make me want to use it on my daily driver. And alot of people feel that way. which is why they dont use it.

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1 minute ago, RonnieOP said:

Just because YOU think its a better option doesnt mean everyone does. Its fine if you enjoy it.

 

I know the pros and cons. Again Linux isnt some new exciting thing. Ive used it on and off for the past 16-17 years.

 

Again, it doesnt offer anything to make me want to use it on my daily driver. And alot of people feel that way. which is why they dont use it.

I am asking about what YOU think

 

Tell me some pros for linux 

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7 minutes ago, papajo said:

I am asking about what YOU think

 

Tell me some pros for linux 

Security/privacy, customization, cost, lightweight.

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59 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Security/privacy, customization, cost, lightweight.

Ok  I will later on elaborate as to why these are but the tip of the iceberg but for now they will do. 

 

So you are saying that linux offers security/privacy, customization, is cheaper/free and lightweight.. 

 

And neither of those is a reason a valid reason to switch an OS? 

 

Security is unimportant? Privacy as well? 

Customization is important? 

Cost is unimportant? 

 

And let me expand a little more on lightweightness it doesnt refer only the size of the installation, you see with windows everything you install has a separate existence in your hardrive resources are not shared every additional program adds ton of duplicate stuff that already exists in other programs but it doesnt care because its a "standalone package" it also makes its own settings (e.g registry) that's the reason windows get clunky overtime and you need to format eventually. 

 

Linux doesnt do that programs share resources for example if you have 10 similar programs in windows each of them needs 100MB you will end up with 1GB of space taken in linux you would need a little more than 100MB since only the extra stuff would be stored everything else that is common gets shared.

 

That's also a reason its highly stable no blue screens of death especially as frequently as you see them on windows. 

 

Updates can be controlled by you and get installed automatically or manually in the way and order you like silently in the background without any reboot required.  

 

Isnt performance an issue ? linux runs hardware more efficiently and most of the time is ahead of the curve... e.g since 1997 or thereabout you could (on a 32bit based OS) use up to 64GB ram or more recently windows 10 home and pro cant handle Thredrippers 3990x 128 threads quite as well and they brake it down to two sockets of 64 threads as  in linux distros the full power of that CPU gets unleashed but you can also see metrics where linux distros come ahead in terms of performance 

 

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=3970x-windows-linux&num=5

 

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=win10-debian101-intel&num=1

 

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=firefox69-chrome77-tests&num=2

 

 

 

 

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=win10-ubuntu-gpufresh&num=5

 

Chess engines, video encoding you name it linux distros perform better over all 

 

Then when you have a computer running linux its YOU who has the control you can do whatever you like with it no special permissions required no locked content or hidden code you can not access you enable disable what you want how many times have you tried to do something but windows required administrative rights eventhough you already are supposedly the admin ? trying to delete something that cant get deleted? try to enable a setting that is greyed out?  forcing you to do an update you dont wonna do right now? 

 

Also OpenSource is the future and linux is heavily on opensource the freedom to know what you are using and how it works and being able to fidle with it yourself. When you run a closed program you dont know what exactly happens in the background, what gets written where and what info gets collected. 

 

 

I could keep on typing but something tells me you will find none of the reasons I will mention as valid to jump to an other OS... so yea... 

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18 minutes ago, papajo said:

 

* snip *

 

I could keep on typing but something tells me you will find none of the reasons I will mention as valid to jump to an other OS... so yea... 

Please, explain why this is an issue?

 

All your recent replies were in the spirit of forcing your opinion down people's throat.

 

Even if you said to the contrary, this part of your reply shows it's true.

 

Arguing over misconception and assumptions are one thing, arguing for the sake of showing everyone that they're wrong and you're right is something else.

 

 

 

Let's get this thread back on track, this wasn't started to argue what OS was better, but if there was a way or a reason for LTT to test other OS when doing reviews, none of the recent arguments are going in the direction.

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49 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Please, explain why this is an issue?

 

All your recent replies were in the spirit of forcing your opinion down people's throat.

 

Even if you said to the contrary, this part of your reply shows it's true.

 

Arguing over misconception and assumptions are one thing, arguing for the sake of showing everyone that they're wrong and you're right is something else...

I disagree. While it appears papjo has been promoting Linux, I see it as refuting erroneous claims about Linux. People scream about people promoting Linux when, in fact, it's far more often the naysayers who chime in first, usually with horrific misconceptions.  That's what happened in this thread,

 

As far as arguing who is right and who is wrong, thats's been happening more in this thread from the Linux detractors than it's defenders. The detractors also are the ones who first took this thread off topic.

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As a person who uses Linux on all but one of my machines, I would say I don't really care.


All I care about is that the hardware is compatible.
That's it.

I don't care if a reviewer figures that out, and don't feel it's really fair to suggest this is something reviewers should do as it's only a 2% user base.


Now, if the reviewer dedicates a channel to it like some folks, they might just get my patreon cash.

I vote with my wallet.


That's my only statement on the subject.

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What I’m seeing in this topic is the chicken and the egg problem. 
 

What should come first: the content that ultimately help sell the masses on Linux or Linux that ultimately helps sell the masses on media talking about it?

 

Linux on the desktop can’t get popular if there’s no exposure to it and there’s not going to be much exposure to it because it’s not popular on the desktop.

 

For Linux on the desktop to be popular, the cycle has to break.

 

I think it’s not unreasonable to briefly mention Linux support or lack there of on a product review. Obviously Linux focussed channels can focus more on this than other channels but I still think Linux should be shown as an option.

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problem with that is 90% of users are windows user (not exactly but most people of the world use Windows). So, going linux will not represent all of them. 

 

another problem with that is it will introduce too many variables for most of us (i.e. Linux has error but Windows don't) to digest. 

 

I wouldn't mind a new tech youtuber use linux to test hardware, but if an old tech youtuber test hardware with windows and he/she is comfortable with, just let he/she be, even if you are a linux fan.

 

 

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Agree that if you feel there is a need for linux-specific guides/reviews then maybe you should get into doing that, if that really is a need it should pay off. But the boilerplate answer of the "linux advocates" is "but I don't have a following so I won't have an impact", so they go about trying to get the high audience channels to do it. 

 

They often also forget that it goes both ways. If LTT starts testing what they usually review on linux and half of it ends up with "welp, doesn't work" or "kinda works but not as well or is jank to get to run" it's going to carry the exact opposite of what they want, to a large audience... and that's what's most likely to happen in the current state of things.

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10 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

I disagree. While it appears papjo has been promoting Linux, I see it as refuting erroneous claims about Linux. People scream about people promoting Linux when, in fact, it's far more often the naysayers who chime in first, usually with horrific misconceptions.  That's what happened in this thread

And as I said, discussing misconceptions is one thing, but the whole back and forth between @papajo and @RonnieOP isn't about that at all.

 

So, again, let's discuss the topic itself, and less preaching. That goes both ways (meaning, this is also directed to the users saying Linux is an interior OS ... @Giganthrax )

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I appreciate the extra effort some reviews do for Linux compatibility but the linux community does extensive testing as well.

 

Mint is my favorite distribution btw 

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On 3/4/2020 at 10:48 AM, Kilrah said:

Agree that if you feel there is a need for linux-specific guides/reviews then maybe you should get into doing that, if that really is a need it should pay off. But the boilerplate answer of the "linux advocates" is "but I don't have a following so I won't have an impact", so they go about trying to get the high audience channels to do it.

Like I mentioned earlier, I still think Linux-users and people who are curious about it would be far better served by dedicated Linux-content, instead of Windows and/or OSX - focused content giving some lip-service to Linux. Such content isn't discoverable, so anyone who is curious about Linux will only find such on accident; actual dedicated content is far easier to discover, especially if you google "How do I do this or that under Linux" or "Does this or that work under Linux" or similar questions.

 

Alas, all the loudest Linux-advocates always seem to want to ride on other people's shoulders instead of putting out content of their own.

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too lazy to read these 7 pages. I'm sure I'm not the only one who says. No. Would you linux people get off your mighty horse just because some creators and bigger ones are starting to pay more attention to you that you feel emboldened to want more youtubers to cater to you and your interests.

That's not how this works. I don't have a damn thing against Linux, it's not for me. It doesn't fit what I need from my OS. Conversely MacOS and Windows equally offer what I'd need/want in an OS. Just getting into MacOS is kind of expensive. Windows isn't perfect but it works 90% of the time without fail, and when it doesn't work it's 5% my fault 5% Microsoft's fault

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- Thread Locked and last few comments removed-

The original question has run its course and this thread has just turned in to an argument over which operating system is best which is a pointless argument that isn't going to go anywhere.

 

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