should youtubers do a "linux test" on products they review?

[LkNETWORK]

On 3/2/2020 at 4:52 AM, Twilight said:

i personally think that being able to run an OS that isn't Windows is very important when considering a device. since i use computers for longer than people generally do (my laptop is 8 years old) i need the ability to run linux if microsoft ever releases a version of Windows that is more bulky than the last and my device slows down. 

 

also i just prefer linux in general over Windows. 

 

i believe that youtubers should start doing linux tests on devices that are reviewed. nothing extensive, but just making sure that it boots up and the wifi chip has drivers and that the gpu is ok. i've seen a bunch of laptops before that either have no wifi drivers on linux or the speed is significantly slower on linux for some reason, and i think this is important to test. 

 

Level1Techs already does this with motherboard reviews and some laptops, and i wish LMG would start doing this as well. Linux has gotten some very positive coverage on LMG channels lately, and that's great, but mentioning that you can run it on a device they review (if possible of course, curse the T2 chip) would be an awesome addition. 

System that can run windows is very likely to be able to run linux

[papajo]

I think you articulate your question in the wrong way, YouTubers shouldn't do anything other than respect the terms of use enforced by Google/youtube. 

They are a big mass of people with huge diversity so there isnt something other they should do. 

 

But I think what you want to ask is if it is a good idea for new channels (or channels that have not yet established a big audience or big channels that want to extent their reach) to include Linux in their reviews. 

 

And imho that indeed would be a good idea since linux is already breaching the gab necessary to become mainstream (= support for gaming) people are still mainly using windows because besides being a habit there is no answer for games that support the closed Microsoft API called DirectX which most of the games (and especially AAA titles) are coded on or have been focused on during developing. 

 

Yet with the advances in other equally good APIs such as Vulkan and with other tools (Wine) plus the support that exists in Steam this gap becomes smaller and smaller and given all the other perks you get by using a linux based OS (freedom, 0 or less money for royalties, more control over your system and less or 0 surveillance, better performance in many instances or support, a more recent example of that is that the mainstream windows 10 iterations do not support 128 threaded -e.g ryzen 3990x-  CPUs as good as linux already does ) linux will eventually see a boom in its userbase.

So it would be a good idea for tech youtubers to adapt and get ahead for of the curve having already various content on linux before that boom which would lead to the increase of their popularity. 

 

Mind though that channels reviewing tech such as GPU performance for linux already exist not a LTT viewer counts but some of them can be considered really popular. 

[papajo]

3 hours ago, Gamer115x said:

it literally isn't worth their time to do so. As such, since the OP of the thread has gone so far as to declare a nonverbal standing that they believe Linux is something that will draw traffic, it is a double-edged sword.

Linux is something that would draw traffic and a proof of that is the linux focused channels that get increasing traffic. 

 

3 hours ago, Gamer115x said:

It might get Linux more popularity, but it could also turn away primary viewers of the YT channel since Linux is either not their normal focus or they'd rather not get involved with something complicated/new

Linux flavors are more approachable than ever now its literally easier to install linux in some cases rather than windows and most of the time its at least as easy there are meany user friendly distros out there with most things working out of the box. The only real thorn in completely transferring to linux is gaming because its dominated by closed APis that linux devs cant touch without legal backlashes(e.g directX) having said there are other equally good performing APis that get momentum such as Vulkan. 

 

3 hours ago, Gamer115x said:

, but the point is it likely won't happen because it isn't profitable.

Profitability is something you need to work for in advance (just as in a stock market) when its already popular and the norm the profitability is low but if you get ahead of the curve you are getting the lion's chunk out of the profits there is no doubt that linux is getting more and more popular even Microsoft tries to get ahead of the curve and embed linux to its OS and so on and so forth. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

4 hours ago, LkNETWORK said:

System that can run windows is very likely to be able to run linux

did you read what i said? i'm not a fanboy being like linux is the greatest thing ever. it has driver issues, particularly with wifi cards that aren't intel. 

[Zando_]

1 hour ago, papajo said:

The only real thorn in completely transferring to linux is gaming

Also MS Office and some other software a lot of people use, they don't have Linux versions, and Linux alternatives are rather.... meh. Lack of general software support is basically the main issue with Linux, outside of that it's a damn good option, and as you pointed out there are many user friendly distros out there. Though still, most help if you google issues boils down to "slap this into terminal" and typey "hacker" stuff like this "terminal" thing scares a lot of people lol. 

[papajo]

15 minutes ago, Twilight said:

it has driver issues

I highly doubt that. 

 

First of what you mean I guess is that the out of the box drivers that come with every linux distro have issues since you can code a driver for everything in linux (as where in a closed operating system such as MacOS or Windows it is very difficult for most users to do so unless they have special access/license to code a driver )

 

But even in that case chances are that you wont find an issue nowadays unless you use obscure hardware or what not...

 

Early on the out of the box driver support was limited yes but that's because for every different piece of hardware a guy had to freely spend his time to code a driver for it and obviously the community could not catch up immediately with the millions of different hardware that was out there... today though this is practically an non issue infact I believe that nowadays Linux supports much more devices than any other operating system. 

 

21 minutes ago, Twilight said:

particularly with wifi cards that aren't intel. 

 

Again I think your info is kinda outdated here (just as a reference these drivers are not a complete list but they are currently supported out of the box in a very popular distro called ubuntu )

Check this list just as a reference https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported

 

There are multiple manufactures here not just intel. 

[papajo]

6 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Also MS Office 

For me it has better alternatives but you also can run MSoffice in linux too its just that you may find some difficulties where DRM starts to take place (a.k.a in office 365 schemes) 

 

6 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

other software a lot of people use

Such as? 

[papajo]

13 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

outside of that it's a damn good option, and as you pointed out there are many user friendly distros out there. Though still, most help if you google issues boils down to "slap this into terminal" and typey "hacker" stuff like this "terminal" thing scares a lot of people lol. 

There is no reason for people to type in "hacker stuff" in linux its just that people may point you to use console commands as they are more efficient, there are graphical operated ways though to do all the things an average non power user would like to do (connect to a vpn, set his resolution, set a particular program to be used for a file type, install a program -there is a googleplay like repository available in most popular distros where you just have to click on the program you want to install - check on system resources and much more) 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

6 minutes ago, papajo said:

I highly doubt that. 

i have like 3 laptops lying around here that have some kind of dirver thing. one doesn't work properly with nvidia, one has wifi card issues and the last one (a macbook) doesn't do the fan control properly. 

 

7 minutes ago, papajo said:

Again I think your info is kinda outdated here

i've got an old (like 10 year old) toshiba laptop lying around. on Windows i get about 30mbit, on Linux i get 2 to 3 mbit. just down to drivers for the card in it. 

i've experienced this a number of times in the past. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

13 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

 "slap this into terminal" and typey "hacker" stuff like this "terminal" thing scares a lot of people lol. 

and then to think all the boomers who now call the IT help desk when they need to open a PDF at one point knew MS-DOS and Basic.... oh how times have changed. 

[DavidKalinowski]

On 3/1/2020 at 10:09 PM, Twilight said:

why not? what do most poeple do with their computer?

 

video streaming? totally fine. 

web browsing? you can get firefox, chrome, opera etc all on linux. 

gaming? more and more games are supporting proton and some like CS:GO are native titles. depending on what you play it's again, fine. 

 

sure, for some people like video editors it's not great right now, but that's a minority. 

 

openshot, lightworks, blender, davinci, shot cut, etc. plenty of options Ubuntu Studio is a good place to start for creatives wanting to easy to setup and start working editing station.

 

and to add to the fun, I've been using linux off and on since Mandrake was a thing. circa 1999-2000) I'm getting close to 37. .. even found a gray a hair last night..

[papajo]

2 minutes ago, Twilight said:

i have like 3 laptops lying around here that have some kind of dirver thing. one doesn't work properly with nvidia, one has wifi card issues and the last one (a macbook) doesn't do the fan control properly. 

 

i've got an old (like 10 year old) toshiba laptop lying around. on Windows i get about 30mbit, on Linux i get 2 to 3 mbit. just down to drivers for the card in it. 

i've experienced this a number of times in the past. 

Well this sounds more like a trouble shooting issue though rather than a driver support issue there are plenty of people that face similar issues in windows as well, although I would consider a 10 year old laptop in the obscure hardware category I still doubt that your issue cant be resolved by changing same settings or parameters especially when it goes to networking stuff linux is more efficient that's one of the reasons most of the data-centers out there run linux instead of an other OS. 

[Zando_]

8 minutes ago, papajo said:

Such as? 

Haven't seen a PS/Lightroom Linux version, my email client (spark) isn't available on Linux as well. Slack and Dropbox are available though, so I could talk on Slack about the files in Dropbox I can't work on since again no MS Office. Many niche/random softwares I've had to use in the past were Windows only, sometimes Windows/macOS. 

 

8 minutes ago, papajo said:

For me it has better alternatives but you also can run MSoffice in linux too its just that you may find some difficulties where DRM starts to take place (a.k.a in office 365 schemes) 

You can run MSoffice with a workaround yes. MS Office messes itself up enough, I don't need the complication of trying to run it in an unsupported OS with WINE or whatever. Also we do use Office 365 so yeah if it has issues with that it'd be hard nope. Pretty sure most people on current Office are using 365, it's the standard way to get Office now, they moved to a mostly sub based system a good bit ago. 

 

2 minutes ago, papajo said:

There is no reason for people to type in "hacker stuff" in linux its just that people may point you to use console commands as they are more efficient, there are graphical operated ways though to do all the things an average non power user would like to do (connect to a vpn, set his resolution, set a particular program to be used for a file type, install a program -there is a googleplay like repository available in most popular distros where you just have to click on the program you want to install - check on system resources and much more) 

Yes. I know that, you know that, the average non-techie user does not. It's foreign to them, and most help articles I have seen if they did try and google the issue themselves point them to terminal commands. Which again are daunting for many people. 

 

2 minutes ago, Twilight said:

and then to think all the boomers who now call the IT help desk when they need to open a PDF at one point knew MS-DOS and Basic.... oh how times have changed. 

True lmao . Though many do still stay reasonably tech-savvy. Some just never understood it in the first place, a great aunt of mine once thought she had deleted all her Outlook files (she has emails going back to at least 2006, maybe back into the 90s too?) because she accidentally hid the sidebar. She's been using Windows and MS Office since before I was sentient. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 minute ago, papajo said:

although I would consider a 10 year old laptop in the obscure hardware category

umm no? a 10 year old device is right near the age where it amkes sense to put Linux on it. like, a Core i5 M450, ATI dGPU and 8GB of ram is plenty to run something like Lubuntu but on Windows you feel the lack of power. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

2 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

I can't work on since again no MS Office. 

LibreOffice. i've been using it fulltime for a long time now. it's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than it used to be. 

 

there is also Office Online. i know, web apps, but the compatibility for existing files is there. 

 

3 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

True lmao . Though many do still stay reasonably tech-savvy. Some just never understood it in the first place, a great aunt of mine once thought she had deleted all her Outlook files (she has emails going back to at least 2006, maybe back into the 90s too?) because she accidentally hid the sidebar. She's been using Windows and MS Office since before I was sentient. 

it depends what device it is. my dad knows how to navigate a computer very well but i had to teach him how to install apps when he got a smartphone. 

[papajo]

1 minute ago, DavidKalinowski said:

openshot, lightworks, blender, davinci, shot cut, etc

Blender comes preinstalled in some distros and it is available in the repositories (like googleplay in android where you click and install apps) 

 

I never have used openshot because I believe there are better alternatives (and also I would categorize that as specialty software anyway) having said that its available to download and install on linux as well https://www.openshot.org/

 

lightworks again is available for linux as well and I think its popularity is mostly from people that use linux rather than other OSes...  https://www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_lwks&view=download&Itemid=206

 

Davinci resolve also runs in linux it has an installer on their webpage...  https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/

 

Shotcut as well https://shotcut.org/download/

 

 

 

[papajo]

11 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Haven't seen a PS/Lightroom

There isnt a linux version per se but you can run it on linux there are also many powerful alternatives such as GIMP 

 

12 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

my email client (spark)

It is available for linux  although again that is more a specialized software category not something an average user would need (there are popular mailclients available for that though such as thunderbird ) 

 

 

[Zando_]

11 minutes ago, Twilight said:

it depends what device it is. my dad knows how to navigate a computer very well but i had to teach him how to install apps when he got a smartphone. 

Also a fact, though my dad and most of the more tech oriented guys his age are still quite competent. Especially for anything that hasn't changed massively in the last few years. 

 

11 minutes ago, Twilight said:

LibreOffice. i've been using it fulltime for a long time now. it's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than it used to be. 

Last I used it, it was horrible. Does it have macros and all the standard formulas and formatting options Excel does as well? I rely on a lot of Excel formatting stuff and then mostly a shitload of VLOOKUPs and tables. Many other people go much, much more in depth, depends on what kinda sheets they're doing. 

 

11 minutes ago, Twilight said:

there is also Office Online. i know, web apps, but the compatibility for existing files is there. 

But again, web apps. Cut features, not dependable. 

 

1 minute ago, papajo said:

There isnt a linux version per se but you can run it on linux there are also many powerful alternatives such as GIMP

GIMP makes me want to cut my eyes out lol. And Adobe CC will run fine on Linux? Without, again, the inherent issues that come with trying to run it using WINE and such? 

 

1 minute ago, papajo said:

It is available for linux  although again that is more a specialized software category not something an average user would need (there are popular mailclients available for that though such as thunderbird ) 

Spark runs on macOS, iOS, and now Android: https://sparkmailapp.com. Not seeing any Linux compatibility.

 

 

Basically there's too many workarounds or alternatives needed for Linux to be useful for a lot of people. It's why it still isn't a popular option, people are used to their Windows and macOS machines and there's... no real reason to change tbh. Linux doesn't really do anything special to justify it being a more daunting OS for a new user. Unless you're very heavily into customizing your OS and keeping very tight control of what is or is not installed, it doesn't have much to offer over other OSes. It's stabler than Windows, but then so is macOS and that's a much more well supported and user-friendly OS. 

 

YouTubers are trying to appeal to "most people" in their target audience, if that target audience is not Linux users (for most of the big channels it is not) then they don't really have a reason or need to support it in reviews. It'd be cool if they did, but at the end of the day it's a lot of extra work for very little benefit to them. The Linux community isn't so vast that failing to support them will hurt their business. 

[papajo]

21 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Spark runs on macOS, iOS, and now Android: https://sparkmailapp.com. Not seeing any Linux compatibility.

I thought you meant this as Spark https://spark.apache.org/

 

Never heard of it anyway I am sure there are more Thunderbird users than spark users out there..  by that I mean its not a program the average user would use anyway since its available for android and android is essentially a linux distro I would guesstimate it could run on linux as well. 

 

21 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

. Does it have macros and all the standard formulas and formatting options Excel does as well?

One would argue that libreoffice/openoffice has more features than MS office https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office

 

https://comparisons.financesonline.com/apache-openoffice-vs-office-365

 

21 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Basically there's too many workarounds or alternatives needed for Linux to be useful

You use particular instances of software to base that argument which most of the average users wouldnt even use in windows (e.g spark) or use subjective opinions.. e.g GIMP makes your eyes bleed 

[Zando_]

2 minutes ago, papajo said:

You use particular instances of software to based that argument which most of the average users wouldnt even use in windows (e.g spark) or use subjective ipinions.. e.g GIMP makes your eyes bleed 

Yes. GIMP has an oofies UI and is not as well known, documented, and supported as Photoshop, which is basically the industry standard AFAIK. Most of the Adobe suite is lol, for the issues they have it's still a very well put together software suite. 

It making my eyes bleed is subjective, it not being as well put together as the very well established Adobe suite is a fact.  

Many windows users would (and do, some of the Mac peeps here too) use Outlook but... that doesn't run on Linux because MS Office does not and it's part of that suite. 

 

4 minutes ago, papajo said:

One would argue that libreoffice/openoffice has more features than MS office https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office

I asked it if had the same stuff I already use lol. What reason is there for an MS Office user to switch to LibreOffice and re-learn where everything is unless they need a specific functionality MS Office cannot provide but LibreOffice can? 

Again, that's the issue. There's a lot of industry standard stuff that does not have a Linux version, and Linux and it's alternatives don't offer some mindblowing advantage that would push the majority of people to move, re-learn where everything is, then have to make do with some funkiness on the side. As well as the fact that many users again, would find Linux rather daunting to use. Hell hopping from Windows to macOS confuses people, have a guy at work who has done that and he has a lot of questions because everything is in a different spot (I'm not sure why we didn't get him a windows laptop if he's more comfortable with that but it wasn't my decision lol). 

Also part of re-learning where stuff is: workflow. A lot of people have a specific way they do things for the best efficiency, they'd have to re-train all those habits if they swap platforms, and there's little reason to do so. 

It is a shame that a lot of stuff still doesn't support Linux, but that's not on YouTubers, and you can't fault them for appealing to people on wildly more popular platforms rather than people on a niche one outside their main target audience. 

[DavidKalinowski]

50 minutes ago, papajo said:

Blender comes preinstalled in some distros and it is available in the repositories (like googleplay in android where you click and install apps) 

 

I never have used openshot because I believe there are better alternatives (and also I would categorize that as specialty software anyway) having said that its available to download and install on linux as well https://www.openshot.org/

 

lightworks again is available for linux as well and I think its popularity is mostly from people that use linux rather than other OSes...  https://www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_lwks&view=download&Itemid=206

 

Davinci resolve also runs in linux it has an installer on their webpage...  https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/

 

Shotcut as well https://shotcut.org/download/

 

 

 

I must not have been clear enough, I was using those as examples of options for video editing/creation using linux. Sorry for the confusion

[WereCatf]

22 minutes ago, papajo said:

anyway since its available for android and android is essentially a linux distro I would guesstimate it could run on linux as well

No, Android uses a completely different userland and is nowhere near "essentially a linux distro." You can't just take an Android-app and run it under Linux, it doesn't work like that.

[papajo]

20 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Yes. GIMP has an oofies UI and is not as well known, documented, and supported as Photoshop, which is basically the industry standard AFAIK.

First of all you are biased, 2D and 3D editing features work the someway across all such editors what changes is the dedicated keyboard shortcuts they use or the articulation in their menus the essence is the same though. 

 

Yes in a professional environment (which is not something that concerns the average user btw ) photoshop is the tool of choice but that's simply due to the fact that photoshop (or any other adobe product) is a paid service which comes with customer care/support and which is a must if you earn your living using a tool GIMP on the other hand is FREE OF CHARGE and therefore does not nearly provide the same level of support, having that said the documentation and community for GIMP is huge and an average user can harness all its power, the learning curve is the same.

 

Plus as mentioned before you can run those applications in linux as well for average user purposes relatively easy (https://www.modmy.com/its-now-easier-install-adobe-creative-cloud-apps-linux this how to is posted on 2017 so the version numbers extent to current ones now) the support is limited if you are a studio and would like to have the best support adobe can provide but again that's not an average user issue. 

 

20 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

I asked it if had the same stuff I already use lol

Your question was trivial obviously calc (excel version of libre office) has macros, formatting options and formulas that's a basic feature set for a spreadsheet program thus I expanded the argument in general featureset comparison between the two office suits. 

[papajo]

5 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

No, Android uses a completely different userland and is nowhere near "essentially a linux distro." You can't just take an Android-app and run it under Linux, it doesn't work like that.

well for a power user it is a matter of minutes (especially if the android app doesnt need, as in mandatory, to make use of mobile hardware resources/flags etc ) but even for the average user there are easy ways to install and run any android app just as a reference (because there are other tools/methods available as well)  https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/run-android-apps-games-linux/

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

5 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

No, Android uses a completely different userland and is nowhere near "essentially a linux distro." You can't just take an Android-app and run it under Linux, it doesn't work like that.

well, there is this: https://anbox.io/

but that's just a tightly integrated VM basically.