should youtubers do a "linux test" on products they review?

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

i personally think that being able to run an OS that isn't Windows is very important when considering a device. since i use computers for longer than people generally do (my laptop is 8 years old) i need the ability to run linux if microsoft ever releases a version of Windows that is more bulky than the last and my device slows down. 

 

also i just prefer linux in general over Windows. 

 

i believe that youtubers should start doing linux tests on devices that are reviewed. nothing extensive, but just making sure that it boots up and the wifi chip has drivers and that the gpu is ok. i've seen a bunch of laptops before that either have no wifi drivers on linux or the speed is significantly slower on linux for some reason, and i think this is important to test. 

 

Level1Techs already does this with motherboard reviews and some laptops, and i wish LMG would start doing this as well. Linux has gotten some very positive coverage on LMG channels lately, and that's great, but mentioning that you can run it on a device they review (if possible of course, curse the T2 chip) would be an awesome addition. 

[Tristerin]

Make it a poll?

 

I don't think so, I think each Youtuber should cater to their audience they are trying to reach.

 

EDIT - thinking about it, there are likely youtubers that focus on Linux.  I don't know of them, and they likely aren't rich from it.  So, the end result is probably because it wont make any money and time = money.

[maverick_brent]

It would definitely help a specific group of audience, however i think the problem would reside in the percentage of their demographics that it would actually help or be useful to, its more footage, more cuts and edits, more storage space etc....for which I personally believe would be a very small percentage of the overall demographic of pc users unfortuntely....

[Bartholomew]

Tl;dr

 

I misread the topic title when i clicked it ("should youtubers do a linus test....") and swear I really thought someone seriously suggesting doin a drop test from 5 feet onto concrete with anything they review

[Windows7ge]

I could see this becoming a thing but covering the most popular distros could get a little complicated and cumbersome. First they'd have to figure out which ones are worth covering. Then go over all of them for every test.

 

It would make a nice check-mark chart though.

[Curious Pineapple]

Maybe as far as jamming an Ubuntu installer on a USB drive and going oh, that installed but the WiFi adaptor doesn't work, the trackpad is 90 degrees out of alignment and the webcam outputs YUV instead of RGB.

 

Beyond that 99% of viewers won't care.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

2 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

I could see this becoming a thing but covering the most popular distros could get a little complicated and cumbersome. First they'd have to figure out which ones are worth covering. Then go over all of them for every test.

well, they could just use Ubuntu. if it works on that then it'll work on pretty much anything else... 

[Kilrah]

Kinda duplicate of this ongoing thread. 

 

[Windows7ge]

Just now, Twilight said:

well, they could just use Ubuntu. if it works on that then it'll work on pretty much anything else... 

For other Debian distros that should be true for the most-part but it could change easily when looking into Arch, RHEL, OpenSUSE, distros.

 

If I were doing hardware compatibility tests for GNU/Linux distros I'd probably test:

• Ubuntu (Debian)
• Manjaro (Arch)
• CentOS (RHEL)
• I don't have one for OpenSUSE but I'd find one.

These are among the most popular. It'd give the most worthwhile compatibility information.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

5 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

For other Debian distros that should be true for the most-part but it could change easily when looking into Arch, RHEL, OpenSUSE, distros.

i've never had something not work on arch. i have had things not work on Ubuntu due to the older kernel. i'd argue that almost nobody uses opensuse. redhat maybe if you consider fedora but that also has up to date kernels... 

[Kilrah]

4 minutes ago, Twilight said:

 i'd argue that almost nobody uses opensuse.

I mean that's just like saying that almost nobody uses linux, so you're using the exact same argument you're against right now... so where should a reviewer stop and how to justify it?

[Windows7ge]

1 minute ago, Twilight said:

i've never had something not work on arch. i have had things not work on Ubuntu due to the older kernel. i'd argue that almost nobody uses opensuse. redhat maybe if you consider fedora but that also has up to date kernels... 

I don't have any deeper knowledge to argue this. Just giving my opinion from past experiences.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

Just now, Kilrah said:

I mean that's just like saying that almost nobody uses linux... where do you stop?

i'd argue that covering distro's that have been in the spotlight on LMG before (Manjaro, PopOS) is reasonable. OpenSUSE wasn't one of those. 

[Kisai]

35 minutes ago, Twilight said:

 

i believe that youtubers should start doing linux tests on devices that are reviewed. nothing extensive

Why bother. Linux users don't exist.

 

In all seriousness, the people doing the reviews are only interested in the revenue from doing the review, so they're not going to spend time on details that don't matter. Unless a product is designed and marketed as "works on all PC/Mac/Linux/Android/iOS", there is no need or point in testing hardware if it works on anything not mentioned, because it's not marketed as working, and not supported. Linux and FreeBSD and all their flavors pretty much don't matter, as almost nobody uses these OS's for desktops, and those that do, either know what they are doing, or are running old enough hardware to not care.

 

As it is, Linux Support relies on kernel drivers, unlike on Windows and MacOS which typically rely on installable drivers. So "works on Linux" doesn't mean "works on all distro's", as no distro runs on bleeding edge kernels. If you want to know if a device works on Linux, you need to look up what kernel your flavor of Linux is, and if that kernel has it. Because for example Redhat/RHEL/CentOS 6, still uses Kernel 2.6 from 2009. CentOS 7, 3.10 from 2011. Like, fine, commit to one kernel version for a super-long time, but realize that automatically makes "Linux Compatible" a non-thing.

[Kilrah]

13 minutes ago, Twilight said:

i'd argue that covering distro's that have been in the spotlight on LMG before (Manjaro, PopOS) is reasonable. OpenSUSE wasn't one of those. 

But Ubuntu's the most popular distro and kind of the "go-to" most people will be directed to...

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

Like, fine, commit to one kernel version for a super-long time, but realize that automatically makes "Linux Compatible" a non-thing.

for the desktop most of the distro's are either based on Arch (which always has the latest version) or Ubuntu which is regularly updated. the LTS version can be outdated close to the release of a new one like now, but the normal releases are updated every 6 months... 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

Just now, Kilrah said:

But Ubuntu's the most popular distro and kind of the "go-to" most people will be directed to...

PopOS is based on Ubuntu, so if it works with that it also works with Ubuntu. PopOS has some added benefits like more up to date nvidia drivers and some tweaks to the sofware center. 

[Kilrah]

...which can make a drastic difference in how well things work...

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

...which can make a drastic difference in how well things work...

not neccesarily. only devices with nvidia card will be affected by that... besides Anthony at LMG knows what he's doing and is aware of this.... Ubuntu could be the standard test and compatibility with PopOS is therefore guaranteed if it works with Ubuntu, since PopOS has newer drivers so it can only work more better. 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

While it would be nice if reviewers would test a product they are reviewing on Linux, that would be kind of like asking someone doing a review on Ford engines to test the engines on Chevys.

 

Some manufacturers will claim their products will work on Linux but not give usable directions on how to make them work on Linux. When a claim is made by a manufacturer or developer that their product will work on Linux, it would be appropriate for a review to include testing that claim and what it takes to make it happen. Often, manufacturers that claim their product will work on Linux will provide source code in a tarball that requires down loading various dependencies and buillding the driver yourself, someting not all Linux users know how to do. Often, any directions that are given are grossly inadequate for all but the most advanced users.

 

However, not all reviewers do not have the ability to test those claims. LMG does, though, but whether they will or not will depend heavily on whether they feel it is worth Anthony's time.

 

4 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Why bother. Linux users don't exist...

Excuse me? I don't exist?        

[Pickles von Brine]

41 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

While it would be nice if reviewers would test a product they are reviewing on Linux, that would be kind of like asking someone doing a review on Ford engines to test the engines on Chevys.

 

Some manufacturers will claim their products will work on Linux but not give usable directions on how to make them work on Linux. When a claim is made by a manufacturer or developer that their product will work on Linux, it would be appropriate for a review to include testing that claim and what it takes to make it happen. Often, manufacturers that claim their product will work on Linux will provide source code in a tarball that requires down loading various dependencies and buillding the driver yourself, someting not all Linux users know how to do. Often, any directions that are given are grossly inadequate for all but the most advanced users.

 

However, not all reviewers do not have the ability to test those claims. LMG does, though, but whether they will or not will depend heavily on whether they feel it is worth Anthony's time.

 

Excuse me? I don't exist?        

Not to mention during testing you can encounter some strange issues. I use to be a full time linux user and it generally worked... but occasionally something would blow up or get weird. Honestly the number of linux users in the grand scheme of things is far fewer than those of Windows users. So, it becomes a niche market. Don't get me wrong, linux is awesome but at what point do you dedicate time to something like that?

[Roswell]

5 hours ago, Twilight said:

i'd argue that almost nobody uses opensuse. redhat maybe if you consider fedora but that also has up to date kernels... 

You'd be wrong. What are you basing this assumption off of?

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, Lord Xeb said:

Not to mention during testing you can encounter some strange issues. I use to be a full time linux user and it generally worked... but occasionally something would blow up or get weird. Honestly the number of linux users in the grand scheme of things is far fewer than those of Windows users. So, it becomes a niche market. Don't get me wrong, linux is awesome but at what point do you dedicate time to something like that?

And that is when the youtube video goes from being a review to a tech support comment thread. You don't want that.

 

My firm opinion on Linux use is that it's not a desktop OS, and until such time there is a firm commitment from Microsoft, Apple, and Google (and Nintendo and Sony), to standardize on open standards, there is almost zero chance Linux will get support. That's why WINE and it's forks tend to be about running Windows software on Linux/OSX rather than trying to deliver native API's that work better than what is on windows. It doesn't help at all that Apple had all but completely abandoned both the Professional and Gamer market outside of the iPad/iPhone.

 

What we have is a half-assed-all-around outside Windows vs Rubbish set of API's. SDL (the API) solves this bridging problem for input devices, but not for GPGPU, 3D, VR, Video and Audio. SDL provides a baseline support for Stereo Audio and 2D graphics, but to do anything more than mobile games, Apple doesn't support Vulkan, Microsoft doesn't use Vulkan, and that that leaves Linux as the only platform that Vulkan might be a first class API, and yet? Nearly everyone is content with OpenGL ES2. Not 3. 2. What about Audio? Nothing cross-platform exists. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Never mind 3D positional Audio. So you end up having to use middleware with no native platform API. 

 

If there was a common input, 2d, 3d, 2d audio, 3d positional audio, set of API's that are available and supported by all OS's, and hardware, we would see more game software ported to all platforms, but instead most developers that want to make things run on more than Windows, have to resort to closed-source cross-platform kits like Unity, which have their own problems and code-rot from version changes.

 

It's for that reason why experienced developers end up writing their own code abstraction because each platform (particularly Nintendo and Playstation) all these middleware toolkits quickly coderot, and the only way you get a game compiled 10 years ago to run on a current version of an OS is by intentionally avoiding system libraries that do not exist on all platforms/versions/flavors of an OS. With Linux that can become a very thin thing indeed.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

10 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

You'd be wrong. What are you basing this assumption off of?

using linux almost half my life. i'm 20 now and i started using it when Ubuntu 12.04 was current. 

 

maybe it was the circles i was in but almost nobody uses opensuse in my experience. i tried it once or twice, and it was a mess both times. finding documentation on it i have found to be difficult which suggests that it sees little use, and most certainly today there are 2, perhaps 3 distro's in the sunlight almost all of the time. those being Mint, Ubuntu and Manjaro. Arch also has a large cult following but other than that there aren't many. 

 

like yes, i know opensuse and fedora have users, of course they do, but looking at it from the perspective of ok, i am asking youtubers to test devices with linux, then something with a much larger install base such as Ubuntu or Manjaro is better. 

[Pickles von Brine]

24 minutes ago, Twilight said:

using linux almost half my life. i'm 20 now and i started using it when Ubuntu 12.04 was current. 

 

maybe it was the circles i was in but almost nobody uses opensuse in my experience. i tried it once or twice, and it was a mess both times. finding documentation on it i have found to be difficult which suggests that it sees little use, and most certainly today there are 2, perhaps 3 distro's in the sunlight almost all of the time. those being Mint, Ubuntu and Manjaro. Arch also has a large cult following but other than that there aren't many. 

 

like yes, i know opensuse and fedora have users, of course they do, but looking at it from the perspective of ok, i am asking youtubers to test devices with linux, then something with a much larger install base such as Ubuntu or Manjaro is better. 

Fedora and OpenSUSE (all of which are red hat based) you will mainly find in enterprise levels. You are right though, vary few use it. Debian overall and its flavors are much more popular mainly due to conical's push into the market for the past many many years. 

BTW, I got you beat there twilight, I have been using Ubuntu since 7.10. <.<