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Pentagon Pushes for Ethical AI (Updated 03/14/2020) Possibly Final Update Until More Information is Given

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On 2/25/2020 at 4:44 AM, FakeCIA said:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/02/24/if-its-not-ethical-they-wont-field-it-pentagon-release-new-ai-guidelines.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1582596662

 

Air Force Lt General Shanahan, Director of the JAIC (Department of Defense) has issued a statement regarding the United States use of artificial intelligence in warfare. Shanahan said in a statement that "We will not field an algorithm until we are convinced it meets our level of performance and our standard, and if we don't believe it can be used in a safe and ethical manner, we won't field it." In other statements to reporters, Shanahan made comments that the use of AI by Russia and China raise serious concerns about human rights, ethics, and international relations. He also made comments that he does not want AI to be used by the military to track citizens as is practice in China. The Pentagon has pushed for more mandates regarding AI in recent years, but concerns that those guidelines won't be recognized internationally are there as well. Shanahan also made references to a speech made by Russian President Putin in 2017, saying "whoever becomes the leader in this sphere will become the ruler of the world."

 

 

My opinion: Contrary to popular belief, there are rules to warfare. For example, you cannot target any medical facility or transport. I think the move to a more regulated atmosphere is a good thing. AI already brings up a lot of ethics questions, but it is much more hotly disputed in terms of how it could be used in war. I believe that AI should be used in war to lower the amount of casualties, but it definitely needs to be regulated by an objective human entity and undergo regular ethics testing. SkyNet, Hal 9000, and Ultron are good examples of what could go wrong in the movies, but I think with the right infrastructure in place, there could be a better system than just blowing each other up. Any AI that is designed and is functional should be under heavy watch and have a kill switch. I think that this is a good move and Shanahan is probably the best guy to help pave the way. He's made comments before on this and is one of the advisors for this kind of subject to the CIA and White House. Obviously, we are not to the point yet that we have an AI capable of thinking on it's own completely, but it is good to think ahead.

 

 

 

On 2/25/2020 at 6:21 AM, FakeCIA said:

https://www.defense.gov/

 

To watch the original briefing and see the transcript, go to the official Department of Defense website here and click on the "What's New?" section. A transcript translated into multiple languages will be available soon on the site.

 

On 2/25/2020 at 11:29 AM, FakeCIA said:

Update: Translated transcripts from the press briefing are now available in various languages on the official Department of Defense site based on region. Military.com, the VOA, and the Freedom of the Press Association also have transcripts available. If your language is not shown as an option, third-party extensions like Google Translate are available for all of these sites and are fully supported. You may also request a transcript directly from the DoD via their contact page.

 

On 2/26/2020 at 5:59 AM, FakeCIA said:

The Age of AI S1-E1 from YouTube Originals hosted by Tony Stark, no wait... Sherlock Holmes, crap no, Robert Downey Jr.

 

On 2/26/2020 at 7:30 AM, FakeCIA said:

 

On 2/26/2020 at 3:30 PM, FakeCIA said:

 

On 2/27/2020 at 2:47 AM, FakeCIA said:

Update: Adding Comments from Secretary of Defense Esper2146031572_Screenshot_2020-02-27SecretaryofDefenseDrMarkTEsper(EsperDoD)Twitter.png.632d1233cc0a4ec3cbcfd772c3989836.png

 

On 2/27/2020 at 3:31 PM, FakeCIA said:

https://www.nextgov.com/emerging-tech/2020/02/pentagon-confirms-alka-patel-lead-implementation-its-new-ethical-ai-principles/163386/

 

Update: Pentagon confirms that Alka Patel, who has extensive experience into the research of AI, as the lead to their ethics board. They have not yet disclosed her official title or exact specifics into her role.

 

On 2/28/2020 at 4:47 AM, FakeCIA said:

https://www.cybercom.mil/

The United States Cyber Command is one of the entities heading this push for ethical AI operations. You can learn more about them on their official website here. They also will have the most up-to-date news on AI and the current situation at this time.

 

https://www.cia.gov/news-information

The CIA also will have some input into this, but they do not update their news site on a regular basis.

 

https://www.military.com/

Military.com is a site hosted by the US Department of Veterans Affairs and is funded in part by the US government and is also supported by donations. They report news for everything military for the United States and allies.

 

https://www.voanews.com/

Voice of America is a nonprofit news organization reporting objective and critical stories from around the world. They are funded in part by the United States government, but are not operated by them.

 

https://thechive.com/

The Chive shows the human side of the military and is one of the largest meme sites online now. You do need a membership to view content though. They are privately owned and veteran operated.

 

 

On 2/28/2020 at 11:05 AM, FakeCIA said:

Jon Stewart recently gave an interview on a podcast. I completely blanked on what the podcast was or who he was interviewing with as it is not on YouTube. For that I will apologize and will post the appropriate link when I can find it. He was making comments on how AI should be used in healthcare and how Congress should have stepped up more to help forward development in the healthcare sector a long time before the Pentagon addressed it in the military sector. This isn't a video from that podcast specifically, but does relate to the comments that he made and his general attitude for how the government handles situations like this. Viewer discretion is advised.

 

 

On 3/6/2020 at 9:35 AM, FakeCIA said:

Update: Cyber Strategy for Past Year Outlined to Congress

https://www.defense.gov/Explore/News/Article/Article/2103843/dods-cyber-strategy-of-past-year-outlined-before-congress/

 

As new regulations are made, the Department of Defense hopes to scale more into the defense budget for AI.

 

On 3/11/2020 at 6:43 PM, FakeCIA said:

https://www.defense.gov/Explore/News/Article/Article/2109462/northcom-commander-calls-for-21st-century-tools-to-defeat-current-threats/

 

Update: The United States Department of Defense has begun the process of establishing SHIELD, the Strategic Home and Integrated Ecosystem for Layered Defense. This new type of agency will focus on cyberwarfare, ballistic missile defense, among other functions on the homeland defense.

 

My Opinion: First off, someone naming things over there is a major fan of Marvel. Second, I think having a separate entity in charge of cyberdefense and cyberwarfare is a good thing. There aren't many details yet on how it will connect to the Marvel Cinematic Universe JAIC and their interests.

Watch Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 4 Episode 2: Meet the New Boss | TVGuide.com

Updated Compilation 03-16-2020.

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

The only one acting like Alex Jones here is you with the blatant disregard for scientific fact in favor of science fiction and the prepper talk...

[break]

I mean, a little self awareness has never hurt anyone.

I'm not disregarding scientific fact at all and my previous posts would support that. Also, the reason I'm comparing you to Alex Jones is because of how aggressive you are being about this. Keep it contained and on topic. I don't want you or I to get in trouble with the mods. This isn't a contest to measure intelligence.

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, FakeCIA said:

I'm not disregarding scientific fact at all and my previous posts would support that.

None of your previous posts give a scientific basis to your arguments. By the way, if you're arguing with me you should mention the evidence in your replies to me, not just throw it out in a dozen random posts. I don't know what overarching point you think you're making but so far it's just loosely connected factoids that go nowhere.

5 minutes ago, FakeCIA said:

Also, the reason I'm comparing you to Alex Jones is because of how aggressive you are being about this.

I'm not being aggressive at all. If being told that everything you said was nonsense bothers you then perhaps next time you should inform yourself better on the topics you're discussing.

 

Also if you think the problem with Alex Jones is that he gets angry then... I don't think you realize who Alex Jones is and what he does.

12 minutes ago, FakeCIA said:

I don't want you or I to get in trouble with the mods.

Don't worry about that, I'm not breaking any rules here and as far as I can tell neither are you. You should be more concerned with making a coherent argument.

14 minutes ago, FakeCIA said:

This isn't a contest to measure intelligence.

Who has ever said this was a contest?

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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30 minutes ago, FakeCIA said:

There are official rules to warfare, especially after World War 2. The Kunduz airstrike was due to inaccurate intel and confusion between Taliban and Afghan forces, and is a one-time isolated incident that doesn't really fit as an example in this thread, while I do respect that example and thank you for bringing that up.

 

Wut?  This is atypical.  Confusion...lol - do you know what happened?  The entire time screaming over open radios that we could hear to stop the airstrike yet it continued on the hospital.  I have an opinion, and that is that the Government is less than, at nearly all times, Ethical.  So this topic is a farce from my standpoint, and the exceptions made to the rules are many (rules of war...lol what about White Phosphor in Ukraine recently?  Who paid the price for that?  Oh wait...the people who were burned alive.)

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1 hour ago, Tristerin said:

Wut?  This is atypical.  Confusion...lol - do you know what happened?  The entire time screaming over open radios that we could hear to stop the airstrike yet it continued on the hospital.  I have an opinion, and that is that the Government is less than, at nearly all times, Ethical.  So this topic is a farce from my standpoint, and the exceptions made to the rules are many (rules of war...lol what about White Phosphor in Ukraine recently?  Who paid the price for that?  Oh wait...the people who were burned alive.)

I am aware of what happened, yes. I was referring to the official statement given to the public in an effort to remain objective. While what happened was a tragedy and loss for many, I'll refer to my previous statement when I say that an AI wouldn't make that mistake and could reduce the loss of life. Governments are known to be unethical at times, the prime example of this being Agent Orange and MK-Ultra developed by the CIA, but I will repeat when I say that just the fact that the Pentagon had this press conference is an amazing show of public trust. They wouldn't do anything like this 10 years ago for a technology like this. Now I do think that there are many classified projects going on behind the scenes, but with how transparent they are being now, willing to work with the public, I'm willing to support them a little to an extent.

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, FakeCIA said:

Pentagon had this press conference is an amazing show of public trust. 

The same Pentagon that lost 3 Trillion Dollars, and showed trust to people by admitting it, then the next day an airplane smashes into that exact wing of the pentagon destroying all of the data for the investigation (all on paper..none on PC...lolololololol) of where that 3 Trillion Dollars lost was.  9/11.  Investigation canceled.

 

Your trust in your government is appalling to me.  We don't have to argue, I think you are extremely naïve with your trust of Government, so I doubt we will agree on much if anything on this exact topic.

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1 hour ago, Tristerin said:

The same Pentagon that lost 3 Trillion Dollars, and showed trust to people by admitting it, then the next day an airplane smashes into that exact wing of the pentagon destroying all of the data for the investigation (all on paper..none on PC...lolololololol) of where that 3 Trillion Dollars lost was.  9/11.  Investigation canceled.

 

Your trust in your government is appalling to me.  We don't have to argue, I think you are extremely naïve with your trust of Government, so I doubt we will agree on much if anything on this exact topic.

So you are one of the people that believe that the September 11th Attacks in which 3,000+ people were killed was the work of the government if I understand your comment correctly? Nice. I'm going to ignore all further comments from you. Can any others that post here please stay on topic?

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, FakeCIA said:

So you are one of the people that believe that the September 11th Attacks in which 3,000+ people were killed was the work of the government if I understand your comment correctly? Nice. I'm going to ignore all further comments from you. Can any others that post here please stay on topic?

You can ignore all you want, I said we likely wouldn't agree and I was right.  I didn't say that, you assumed the above.  I stated facts - the day before, the Pentagon you love and trust and have good faith in, admitted to losing 3 trillion dollars.  Then oddly, an airplane strikes the room that (and no debris left) had all of the data, on paper and it was entirely destroyed.  Facts.

 

You keep being you, good sheep.  Your idea of staying on topic is agreeing with you.

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Please stay on topic when commenting here. I'm trying to have a nice conversation that is objective, transparent, and friendly about a subject that is important to the future of AI. You are certainly welcome here and I like seeing what other people think about this, but comments about conspiracy theories and hate aren't what this thread is about. Keep it friendly and share your ideas.

 

 

 

 

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Update: Adding Comments from Secretary of Defense Esper2146031572_Screenshot_2020-02-27SecretaryofDefenseDrMarkTEsper(EsperDoD)Twitter.png.632d1233cc0a4ec3cbcfd772c3989836.png

 

 

 

 

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On 2/25/2020 at 3:44 AM, FakeCIA said:

 

My opinion: Contrary to popular belief, there are rules to warfare. For example, you cannot target any medical facility or transport.

 

That would never stop a terrorist though, terrorists routinely use medical and educational facilities as cover, that's why when we hear about high casualty amounts it's always framed that a hospital was attacked, rather than "the hospital was being used as a base for terrorists." Their entire goal is to make the public afraid of them.

 

Two countries at war, are not going to carpetbomb each other at random. Targets will be picked with precision, and likely bombed before any troops are ever sent in to secure targets that would gain an advantage. That's why traditionally, a retreating army would destroy anything the invading army could use. Prior to satellites, there were spyplanes, and even then, one couldn't be absolutely sure what something on the ground was. Satellite mapping is so good now that you can see objects on the roof of a building, in nearly real time. 

 

AI has a very real possibility of being a source of bad information, and then military forces acting on bad information. Let's step back from "oh no, AI bad, Skynet" , and look at things like the boston dynamics "robot dog" and AI driven satellite mapping. Instead of sending people and vehicles into an area with unknowns, you send the robots in to look for improvised explosive devices, and act as "tanks" so to speak to absorb any gunfire from hostile forces that have not retreated, so that you can then "pin point" where they are firing from and have an actual human target those spaces. 

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1 hour ago, Kisai said:

 

That would never stop a terrorist though, terrorists routinely use medical and educational facilities as cover, that's why when we hear about high casualty amounts it's always framed that a hospital was attacked, rather than "the hospital was being used as a base for terrorists." Their entire goal is to make the public afraid of them.

 

Two countries at war, are not going to carpetbomb each other at random. Targets will be picked with precision, and likely bombed before any troops are ever sent in to secure targets that would gain an advantage. That's why traditionally, a retreating army would destroy anything the invading army could use. Prior to satellites, there were spyplanes, and even then, one couldn't be absolutely sure what something on the ground was. Satellite mapping is so good now that you can see objects on the roof of a building, in nearly real time. 

 

AI has a very real possibility of being a source of bad information, and then military forces acting on bad information. Let's step back from "oh no, AI bad, Skynet" , and look at things like the boston dynamics "robot dog" and AI driven satellite mapping. Instead of sending people and vehicles into an area with unknowns, you send the robots in to look for improvised explosive devices, and act as "tanks" so to speak to absorb any gunfire from hostile forces that have not retreated, so that you can then "pin point" where they are firing from and have an actual human target those spaces. 

I respect your input. Thank you for commenting. Feel free to contribute any news articles, videos, and research if you would like. Just make sure it follows forum guidelines.

 

 

 

 

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https://www.nextgov.com/emerging-tech/2020/02/pentagon-confirms-alka-patel-lead-implementation-its-new-ethical-ai-principles/163386/

 

Update: Pentagon confirms that Alka Patel, who has extensive experience into the research of AI, as the lead to their ethics board. They have not yet disclosed her official title or exact specifics into her role.

 

 

 

 

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On 2/26/2020 at 8:20 PM, Sauron said:

I don't care about what the general public understands, I care about what the technology can actually do.

That doesn't mean anything. The people who wrote Avengers aren't computer scientists and even if they were they wouldn't have cared about being scientifically accurate - the point wasn't to predict the future, it was to write a good story. Not to mention characters like Ultron or Skynet were originally conceived loooong before current AI technology surfaced. "What if computer sentient???" has been a staple of science fiction writing for decades, pretty much since the invention of computers, that doesn't mean it's a correct assessment of what the future holds.

That would be because it's not sentient.

Yes, that is what current AI technology is. We don't have an artificial general intelligence that can handle things it wasn't designed to. If there are only a handful of possible decisions you can make once the face has been recognized then training the AI to choose what to do is very inefficient when you could just hardcode it.

A really well-worded response. The way we engineer ai now, is analogues to what we thought people "Engineered" future-tech in the early '50s. Artificial Intelligence (which should frankly be aptly called 'Machine Learning'), is at its very juvenile phase atm. There is however great strides being taken to improve our understanding of what an 'ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE' could actually entail.

~Engineer.AI   

Engineer.AI

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Although this is RICH coming from The Pentagon of all people - Abu Graib, the many attacks on civilians and public institutions in ME countries, planting state-sponsored proxies in various countries, REDBAITING....!!!

 

"RICH" does not begin to cut it


~Engineer.AI

Engineer.AI

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@Engineer.AI Can you possibly reword your statements so they are easier to read? I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to add to this discussion, but I do want it added. Also, please stay on topic. I know the Pentagon can be a nasty subject sometimes, but this topic is not reserved for getting angry and dishing out political hate. This is about the ethics of AI today and the future.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, FakeCIA said:

@Engineer.AI Can you possibly reword your statements so they are easier to read? I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to add to this discussion, but I do want it added. Also, please stay on topic. I know the Pentagon can be a nasty subject sometimes, but this topic is not reserved for getting angry and dishing out political hate. This is about the ethics of AI today and the future.

Lol sorry. got carried away.

 

Just wanted to chuckle on, and highlight the point that the Pentagon is dispersing ethics advice. This is like a crocodile teaching a monkey to swim XD.

 

But I got your point... ethics when it comes to AI is a really slippery slope. Humans can engineer ai to indiscriminately do good, or bad. They cannot however teach them the repercussions or the context for their actions. Simply programing AI to "scan and kill" will work, in the eyes of those vouching for it. However, this would be the endgame then. The machine cannot develop a deeper appreciation for the malice he is creating, UNLESS TAUGHT OTHERWISE.

 

It is not the Intelligence, but the programmer that is evil

 

~Engineer.AI

Engineer.AI

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1 hour ago, Engineer.AI said:

Lol sorry. got carried away.

 

Just wanted to chuckle on, and highlight the point that the Pentagon is dispersing ethics advice. This is like a crocodile teaching a monkey to swim XD.

 

But I got your point... ethics when it comes to AI is a really slippery slope. Humans can engineer ai to indiscriminately do good, or bad. They cannot however teach them the repercussions or the context for their actions. Simply programing AI to "scan and kill" will work, in the eyes of those vouching for it. However, this would be the endgame then. The machine cannot develop a deeper appreciation for the malice he is creating, UNLESS TAUGHT OTHERWISE.

 

It is not the Intelligence, but the programmer that is evil

 

~Engineer.AI

I do understand your concern of individual programmers, but there are hundreds of people working within the Pentagon, Department of Defense, and various public entities. There are also going to be numerous countermeasures to stop unauthorized access. We will have to wait and see what those measures will be in final though. I still have my bunker. It has a beer garden now.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, FakeCIA said:

I do understand your concern of individual programmers, but there are hundreds of people working within the Pentagon, Department of Defense, and various public entities. There are also going to be numerous countermeasures to stop unauthorized access. We will have to wait and see what those measures will be in final though. I still have my bunker. It has a beer garden now.

My trust is leaning on those well-meaning professionals, though. Another thing is that there is a general half-knowledge, when it comes to AI, ML and DL. Maybe if these terms were explained to people, there wouldn't be a dimension of xenophobia attatched to the machines (which I consider are doing more good, than harm currently). 

Engineer.AI

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https://www.cybercom.mil/

The United States Cyber Command is one of the entities heading this push for ethical AI operations. You can learn more about them on their official website here. They also will have the most up-to-date news on AI and the current situation at this time.

 

https://www.cia.gov/news-information

The CIA also will have some input into this, but they do not update their news site on a regular basis.

 

https://www.military.com/

Military.com is a site hosted by the US Department of Veterans Affairs and is funded in part by the US government and is also supported by donations. They report news for everything military for the United States and allies.

 

https://www.voanews.com/

Voice of America is a nonprofit news organization reporting objective and critical stories from around the world. They are funded in part by the United States government, but are not operated by them.

 

https://thechive.com/

The Chive shows the human side of the military and is one of the largest meme sites online now. You do need a membership to view content though. They are privately owned and veteran operated.

 

Edited by FakeCIA
KCCO

 

 

 

 

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Jon Stewart recently gave an interview on a podcast. I completely blanked on what the podcast was or who he was interviewing with as it is not on YouTube. For that I will apologize and will post the appropriate link when I can find it. He was making comments on how AI should be used in healthcare and how Congress should have stepped up more to help forward development in the healthcare sector a long time before the Pentagon addressed it in the military sector. This isn't a video from that podcast specifically, but does relate to the comments that he made and his general attitude for how the government handles situations like this. Viewer discretion is advised.

 

 

 

 

 

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My concern is that this will be NSA-violated. If not by the US, then by another government. As in, secretly violated without anyone's knowledge, including the knowledge of the very people representing the governing body itself. And it'd be relatively simple to secretly violate regulations in testing while only using regulated AI in the field...

...then one day you've done enough testing to where you feel confident that you can rule the world with the technology, and begin using it. Or worse, another government steals it from you and uses it themselves, against you. And now you have to defend yourself... and we're into a weapons war of AI. 

Don't you love technology?

A society's accepted views of the world surrounding said society is both the making and undoing of society itself.
“While one person hesitates because he feels inferior, the other is busy making mistakes and becoming superior.” - Henry C. Link

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1 hour ago, DKL said:

My concern is that this will be NSA-violated. If not by the US, then by another government. As in, secretly violated without anyone's knowledge, including the knowledge of the very people representing the governing body itself. And it'd be relatively simple to secretly violate regulations in testing while only using regulated AI in the field...

...then one day you've done enough testing to where you feel confident that you can rule the world with the technology, and begin using it. Or worse, another government steals it from you and uses it themselves, against you. And now you have to defend yourself... and we're into a weapons war of AI. 

Don't you love technology?

That is a large concern, yes. The US government does not have the best track record, but I think some people involved in development are genuinely trying to regain public trust and push this forward. Some people are really good people, not every person working for the government is bad or evil.

 

 

 

 

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Something was nagging at me the entire time I was reading/thinking about this topic, and I think I've finally pinned it down:

On 2/25/2020 at 3:44 AM, FakeCIA said:

...use of artificial intelligence in warfare.

On 2/25/2020 at 3:44 AM, FakeCIA said:

Shanahan said in a statement that "We will not field an algorithm...if we don't believe it can be used in a safe and ethical manner..."

Are we discussing the safe and ethical use of AI in warfare? The entire concept seems oxymoronic/contradictory to me. If it comes down to a situation in which you can instantly win a long and tiring war, but must sacrifice an entire country and all of its citizens to do so, I will admit I would be 99% inclined to push that instant-win button. Yep, I would be the first to admit I'm no saint.

 

Ah, please don't misunderstand, I find the topic genuinely intriguing. It's just, I get super bogged down in the details.

 

Also, I had late-night thoughts about Ghost in the Shell and whether we'll reach an age in which AI/VI will be seamlessly integrated into our brains.

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