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OFCOM to Regulate Social Media in the UK

IAcKI
14 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

If you want protection or change, you'll almost never get it if you just rely on others and do jack all for yourself.

 

Just saying

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people are just not that clever or lack the initiative to take that action... or fail to realise that what they're seeing is totally stupid or false.

 

The general public and children are very easily led by misinformation and people love to take advantage of that for their own means, without any thought for the consequences.

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10 minutes ago, SADS said:

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people are just not that clever or lack the initiative to take that action... or fail to realise that what they're seeing is totally stupid or false.

 

The general public and children are very easily led by misinformation and people love to take advantage of that for their own means, without any thought for the consequences.

What about those that don't have the mental capacity for whatever reasons. There are a lot of suicide sites out there, spreading depression to those that are already on the edge. Especially in the hormone driven teenage years with all the pressures they are under mental health issues can take hold big time. Every day people take their own lives and it can be shown that younger age groups who have visited some of these sites have gone onto suicide. Should we stop these sites? Should we put measures in so that when people search for this kind of social media they are directed instead to support sites?

 

We should be holding to account those that are making money by attracting these troubled people.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51262240

 

Quote

It wasn't until just over a month before her death that Callie started chatting with strangers in online suicide forums.

These are corners of the internet where people discuss suicide and in some cases, share information on how someone can end their own life.

In posts on one suicide forum, Callie told other users about failed attempts to take her life. In another, she asked for help hiding her intentions from mental health professionals.

'Engrossed' in suicide websites

After hanging out on the forum, Callie discovered a new suicide method and even bought a "suicide kit", which she later used to end her life.

Callie's mum believes the website played a significant role in her daughter's death in August 2018.

She went to stay in Windermere, Cumbria - 350 miles away from her mum - where she remained for several days before taking her life.

"Without those forums, I think my daughter would have struggled to find the information that she was looking for about how to die," Sarah says.

 

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42 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Given how puritan UK is, I'm not even surprised...

Obviously, you are not from around here. Puritan is certainly something I would not describe the UK as.

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5 minutes ago, Phill104 said:

Obviously, you are not from around here. Puritan is certainly something I would not describe the UK as.

Lol, UK being the only country trying to enforce how and who watches porn certainly describes it exactly like that. Or shall I say "pretending puritans". Think of the children and all that crap. And they are perpetually offended over everything...

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55 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Everyone has the power to set Twitter and Facebook as 127.0.0.1

Yeah, so I guess if people bully you on the street you could just stay home. Nice logic there.

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5 hours ago, IAcKI said:

 

 

Opinion:
Seems just another nail in the coffin of Internet freedom. How a board are going to be able to decide if something is offensive to people is beyond me. Seems old hats trying to make the internet like traditional media. OFCOM already remove adverts from air after very few complaints from 'career moaners'. All we can ope is they're a little more lenient when it comes to this regulation; only removing terrorism videos etc.

 

More than one person has been bullied to the point of suicide via social media, and indeed many of us that use social media have been on the receiving end of people who make a game out of seeing if they can make their target kill themselves. It's absolutely real and there people who get off on seeing people take their own life. Find the right combination of passive aggressive insults and you'll either get someone mad enough to "show their true colors" or depressed enough that they'll put themselves into the hospital or die trying.

 

Social media should not enable that, and websites that purport to be "freedom of speech", often say they are so they can continue beating down on people they don't like beyond the reach of law enforcement. Which is to say that not all targets are equal. If you are public figure (be it a celebrity or a politician) you are ripe for being "taken down a notch" by the cyberbullies. Yet there are people who also can't separate fantasy from reality. Is it really worth potentially killing a Twitch Streamer by reporting that they're actually shooting real people instead of imaginary ones in a video game, and the people breaking down the door can't tell the difference from the outside?

 

Free speech is not unlimited, nor without consequence. Fine, you can have your free speech, but if you tell someone to kill themselves or get an internet mob to harass someone to where their quality of life is impacted, you should be the one going to jail at worst, or have a restraining order placed against you from accessing the internet, or having any job that requires using the internet. 

 

Things would never have got to a boiling point if "privatize the profits, socialize the losses" wasn't a cornerstone of how businesses operate. Clearly you can't moderate everything on a social media platform, you could never find enough real humans willing to suffer through the crap people post online. Indeed:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/16/21021005/google-youtube-moderators-ptsd-accenture-violent-disturbing-content-interviews-video

https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/19/18681845/facebook-moderator-interviews-video-trauma-ptsd-cognizant-tampa

https://www.theverge.com/interface/2019/11/1/20941952/cognizant-content-moderation-restructuring-facebook-twitter-google

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/07/25/social-media-companies-are-outsourcing-their-dirty-work-philippines-generation-workers-is-paying-price/

 

 

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The amount of tools social networks provide to brush away assholes is so huge I don't understand people who demand social networks to babysit their sorry fragile asses coz they are too lazy to defend themselves with all the tools they have. Twitter for example allows you to hide tweets that include certain words. You can literally make it in just few clicks that all the shit people say to you literally falls into a black hole and you just don't see it. Using Block is lame as you tell the bully you've blocked them and they'll use another account or something. Systematically ignoring them makes them think they are harassing you where in reality, you aren't seeing any of their shit. It's literally that simple. Other is just not being on garbage Fecesbook and Twatter. Both of these platforms suck donkey ass and a cancer of today's society. Everyone phony in there, pretending how they are all living the perfect lives. It's so pathetic it makes me want to vomit.

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1 minute ago, Kisai said:

Free speech is not unlimited, nor without consequence. Fine, you can have your free speech, but if you tell someone to kill themselves or get an internet mob to harass someone to where their quality of life is impacted, you should be the one going to jail at worst, or have a restraining order placed against you from accessing the internet, or having any job that requires using the internet. 

 

 

I'm more of this opinion, things you do or say have a consequence. At least then it will be decided by your peers, not a bunch of faceless people deciding if it is offensive or not. If you say some horrible shit to someone and they take their lives due to that. That person must face the consequences. It would certainly make people think alot more about what they say. I just don't think censorship is the way forward as we know it will result in creeping change.  

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3 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

OFCOM cant stop physical bullying either.

Not ofcom, but legal intervention definitely can - and private places like stores definitely have a responsibility to act if a customer is verbally or physically abusing another. "Stay home from the store" isn't a solution. More generally, placing the blame on the victim rather than on the perpetrator or their enablers is moronic. I don't like facebook or twitter and I don't use them, that doesn't mean they can get away with doing whatever they want to the people who do.

2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Twitter for example allows you to hide tweets that include certain words. You can literally make it in just few clicks that all the shit people say to you literally falls into a black hole and you just don't see it.

So you're saying that if someone decides to post child pornography it's fine because I could block them? It's not just direct harassment from one person that we're talking about (though obviously that's not ok either). The suicide thing has sometimes less to do with bullying and more with people being exposed to a circle of depression and negative reinforcement, even if it's not directed at them.

1 minute ago, IAcKI said:

If you say some horrible shit to someone and they take their lives due to that. That person must face the consequences.

I don't know about you, but I don't think having people "face consequences" is worth other people killing themselves. Also this is all about holding people responsible for their actions - including the platform owners who enable them.

2 minutes ago, IAcKI said:

It would certainly make people think alot more about what they say.

Ah yes, why invest in better education when you can just have people LITERALLY KILL THEMSELVES and hope that maybe other people will learn to be better. Do you even read your posts?

 

Also showing people like that that they can actually get someone to kill themselves is more likely to embolden them than anything else.

3 minutes ago, IAcKI said:

I just don't think censorship is the way forward as we know it will result in creeping change.  

What does that even mean? What creeping change? Do you have a compelling argument for why this might have negative consequences other than an undefined "creeping change" that could possibly happen in the future? And how would this law be the event that causes that "change" in your mind, even if we concede that it's a possibility?

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1 hour ago, Phill104 said:

The H&S thing was really over-hyped by the media and used as political leverage. The truth of the matter is that most H&S rules have been not understood here, or deliberately miss-interpreted. Fear of insurance companies has been a big driver of this and that is what happened in the conker case. There are actually no laws stopping schools playing conkers, just fear of litigation, same with playing in the snow. Most schools still allow both, if it was the case laws prevented it none would do so.

 

The same I fear will happen with this current change in powers being granted to OFCOM. A lot of it is to gain political leverage, but our gutter press will make a lot more of it over the next few days/weeks. Mark my words, they will spread fear just to sell their filthy rags.

 

I really hope some good will come of this though. I have seen my daughters go through bullying, and been shown some of the things that social media sites and apps are failing to stamp down on. While some will say that is the job of the parents, social media and computer access is so commonplace now it is almost impossible to monitor children. So at some point we need regulation.

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. Again I'm not against protecting children from harm, that is a good thing. I just don't trust the government to do it without using for their own gain.

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4 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

You are looking to punish the perpetrator. Taking the offensive.

Not punish - prevent them from doing harm first and foremost.

4 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

I am looking to prevention.

No, you're looking at placing the burden of prevention on the victim.

6 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Sure, I cant live without leaving home. But I can live without social media.

It doesn't matter, the core reasoning is flawed. You can live without doing a lot of things, that doesn't mean you should be forced to do that just because other people may take advantage of you otherwise. You can live without pizza, does that mean you should be expected to stop eating it or be blamed for the delivery guy spitting on it? "I guess you shouldn't have ordered pizza if you didn't want that to happen". That's bullshit. If someone harms you they are the problem, not you doing something completely harmless that allowed them to hurt you.

10 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

If regulators take action, great. If they dont, I already got myself covered. I am already better off, and this is a fact.

That is completely beside the point. If you don't want to use social media, good for you, as I said I don't either - that doesn't mean they shouldn't be regulated.

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6 hours ago, IAcKI said:

Sources:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51446665

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/11/social-media-sites-could-blocked-uk-ofcom-gets-job-policing/

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/ofcom-youtube-facebook-twitter-online-harms-regulation-law-a9330971.html

 

New powers will be given to the watchdog Ofcom to force social media firms to act over harmful content.

Until now, firms like Facebook, Tiktok, YouTube, Snapchat and Twitter have largely been self-regulating.

The companies have defended their own rules about taking down unacceptable content, but critics say independent rules are needed to keep people safe.

It is unclear what penalties Ofcom will be able to enforce to target violence, cyber-bullying and child abuse.

There have been widespread calls for social media firms to take more responsibility for their content, especially after the death of Molly Russell who took her own life after viewing graphic content on Instagram.

Later on Wednesday, the government will officially announce the new powers for Ofcom - which currently only regulates the media, not internet safety - as part of its plans for a new legal duty of care.

Ofcom will have the power to make tech firms responsible for protecting people from harmful content such as violence, terrorism, cyber-bullying and child abuse - and platforms will need to ensure that content is removed quickly.

They will also be expected to "minimise the risks" of it appearing at all.

 

Opinion:
Seems just another nail in the coffin of Internet freedom. How a board are going to be able to decide if something is offensive to people is beyond me. Seems old hats trying to make the internet like traditional media. OFCOM already remove adverts from air after very few complaints from 'career moaners'. All we can ope is they're a little more lenient when it comes to this regulation; only removing terrorism videos etc.

In theory it's a good idea and something I've been advocating for many years... But as usual in this country I expect the regulations to be basically toothless and ineffective... mostly due to the lack of funding for the regulators to pursue and take action against these companies with bottomless pockets of money to try and wriggle out or and around the rules.

 

One thing that needs to be set in stone... unlimited fines... because the only way to force these companies to act is to hurt what matters the most to them... money.  if they let a million people see something that should have been removed or never allowed to be uploaded/posted... take them to the cleaners and make it so unprofitable to flout them.

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1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Lol, UK being the only country trying to enforce how and who watches porn certainly describes it exactly like that. Or shall I say "pretending puritans". Think of the children and all that crap. And they are perpetually offended over everything...

Nope, that is really not true.  All the UK are trying to do, and badly, is enforce current laws on porn age limits. Most of the world have age limits on porn. In my youth you got it from magazines that weird old men left in bushes. You could not get a copy of Razzle from the shop as it was illegal to sell to underage children. Do we really want children learning sex the pot star way? Now anyone can get access online and all these restrictions are is a way to verify age. Poorly implemented I grant you, but hardly Puritan.

 

The UK has equality for same sex intercourse age limit, and for marriage unlike many countries so hardly

puritanical. 
 

Look at some of the strange laws in the US where you can have a gun license at 5, drive a car at 14 but cannot drink until you are 21. The UK has not age restrictions on alcohol consumption, just on purchase until you are 18. 
 

I’m all for the regulation of certain things online. The internet was conceived by a Brit for sharing of knowledge. It was not meant as a place for grooming, for sharing rape videos or to help the mentally ill kill themslves.

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1 hour ago, Phill104 said:

Nope, that is really not true.  All the UK are trying to do, and badly, is enforce current laws on porn age limits. Most of the world have age limits on porn. In my youth you got it from magazines that weird old men left in bushes. You could not get a copy of Razzle from the shop as it was illegal to sell to underage children. Do we really want children learning sex the pot star way? Now anyone can get access online and all these restrictions are is a way to verify age. Poorly implemented I grant you, but hardly Puritan.

 

The UK has equality for same sex intercourse age limit, and for marriage unlike many countries so hardly

puritanical. 
 

Look at some of the strange laws in the US where you can have a gun license at 5, drive a car at 14 but cannot drink until you are 21. The UK has not age restrictions on alcohol consumption, just on purchase until you are 18. 
 

I’m all for the regulation of certain things online. The internet was conceived by a Brit for sharing of knowledge. It was not meant as a place for grooming, for sharing rape videos or to help the mentally ill kill themslves.

Except for one small detail, viewing or possessing porn is not illegal even if you are under the age of 18 in the UK. Much like alcohol it's only illegal to sell porn to someone under the age of 18.

 

Sir Tim Berners Lee did not create the internet. He is regarded as the father of the world wide web but what he actually created was HTTP. Bulletin boards existed before HTTP and 'the internet' (as in the concept of a WAN) was actually created at MIT as a way of allowing university servers to communicate with each other remotely before it was picked up by the US military.

 

Also FTR it is a criminal offence to give a child under the age of 5 alcohol in the UK.

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25 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Except for one small detail, viewing or possessing porn is not illegal even if you are under the age of 18 in the UK. Much like alcohol it's only illegal to sell porn to someone under the age of 18.

 

Sir Tim Berners Lee did not create the internet. He is regarded as the father of the world wide web but what he actually created was HTTP. Bulletin boards existed before HTTP and 'the internet' (as in the concept of a WAN) was actually created at MIT as a way of allowing university servers to communicate with each other remotely before it was picked up by the US military.

 

Also FTR it is a criminal offence to give a child under the age of 5 alcohol in the UK.

It is illegal to view porn if you are under 18 and with anyone else whatever their age. It is illegal to sell porn to someone under 18, and selling includes adverts on a free site. Supplying pine to someone under age can also be considered grooming. But that is just getting pedantic. This whole regulation is not just about one thing.
 

I am aware of the history of the net, the under 5 laws etc but they really did not need to be stateD in their minutia. That is just you being pedantic and trying to draw attention away from the intent. These new powers are a good thing, as long as they are used as intended. If you don’t see that then please spend some time looking at the deaths and harm that have been caused by online content.

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UK or as i like to call it: softcore china

 

credit system when?

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35 minutes ago, Phill104 said:

It is illegal to view porn if you are under 18

Wait - you can be legally prosecuted if you view porn and you're under 18 in the UK? That doesn't sound right... how would you even prove one was intentionally looking for porn? Do movies with explicit scenes also count as porn? Many aren't rated as mature...

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Even ignoring how nigh-impossible it would be on a practical level, I very doubt this Tory government would even allocate Ofcom the money it requires to actually do it.

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6 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Wait - you can be legally prosecuted if you view porn and you're under 18 in the UK? That doesn't sound right... how would you even prove one was intentionally looking for porn? Do movies with explicit scenes also count as porn? Many aren't rated as mature...

You have missed the AND part of the sentence I wrote. It is illegal to view porn if you are under 18 AND another person whatever their age is present. It was designed to help prosecute those who groom children etc.

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3 minutes ago, Delicious Cake said:

Even ignoring how nigh-impossible it would be on a practical level, I very doubt this Tory government would even allocate Ofcom the money it requires to actually do it.

You are probably right. It sounds like more popularism spouted by this government. Having said that, it is not hard to force ISPs to block suicide sites 

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11 minutes ago, Phill104 said:

You have missed the AND part of the sentence I wrote. It is illegal to view porn if you are under 18 AND another person whatever their age is present. It was designed to help prosecute those who groom children etc.

Ohhh, I see.

12 minutes ago, Delicious Cake said:

Even ignoring how nigh-impossible it would be on a practical level, I very doubt this Tory government would even allocate Ofcom the money it requires to actually do it.

It doesn't have to be completely enforceable though - if something like this goes through then victims could actually sue social media companies for ignoring the problem, which I'd say is better than nothing. I have no respect for the Torys but even if it's for the wrong reasons this doesn't seem like a terrible idea.

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1 hour ago, Phill104 said:

It is illegal to view porn if you are under 18 and with anyone else whatever their age. It is illegal to sell porn to someone under 18, and selling includes adverts on a free site. Supplying pine to someone under age can also be considered grooming. But that is just getting pedantic. This whole regulation is not just about one thing.
 

I am aware of the history of the net, the under 5 laws etc but they really did not need to be stateD in their minutia. That is just you being pedantic and trying to draw attention away from the intent. These new powers are a good thing, as long as they are used as intended. If you don’t see that then please spend some time looking at the deaths and harm that have been caused by online content.

You're the one using qualifiers while also accusing me of being pedantic. The fact remains that what I said is true.

 

While the deaths and harm is very tragic the internet also does a lot of good. It allows people to tell the, sometimes very ugly, truth about goings on. It allows people to reunite with other long lost people. The freedom of the internet is a good thing with a small percentage of bad places.

 

To turn your argument around, if you don't see how the UK government has consistently proven that it cannot be trusted with schemes like this then you should go look back at the history of the last 30 to 40 years.

 

This scheme is nothing but a way to bring mass censorship to anything the government disagrees with under the disguise of the lowest common denominator argument, won't someone think of the children. They've been after it for years and so far have been largely unsuccessful so this time they're trying it by proxy.

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Just now, Master Disaster said:

You're the one using qualifiers while also accusing me of being pedantic. The fact remains that what I said is true.

There you go, not getting the sentiment of my comments but instead just trying to show what a clever bunny you are. We can all nit pick this way but the fact is there is a huge problem that needs to be at least talked about and in many cases acted upon.

Just now, Master Disaster said:

 

While the deaths and harm is very tragic the internet also does a lot of good. It allows people to tell the, sometimes very ugly, truth about goings on. It allows people to reunite with other long lost people. The freedom of the internet is a good thing with a small percentage of bad places.


 

 

Sure, it is a good thing much of the time, why should that stop us trying to weed out the often criminal activity that goes on? Or do you thing it is OK to leave videos of the rape of a 14 year old online by a group of scum up so the site in question can make advertising revenue? We must do something.

Just now, Master Disaster said:

To turn your argument around, if you don't see how the UK government has consistently proven that it cannot be trusted with schemes like this then you should go look back at the history of the last 30 to 40 years.

You need to qualify that statement, especially as there have been many governments over that period.

Just now, Master Disaster said:

This scheme is nothing but a way to bring mass censorship to anything the government disagrees with under the disguise of the lowest common denominator argument, won't someone think of the children. They've been after it for years and so far have been largely unsuccessful so this time they're trying it by proxy.

So what particular type of content are you scared they will ban? Is there something in particular you will miss? I think we need to see how it works out before we can comment on the effectiveness of this or whether it goes too far. I very much doubt it will be the latter!

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1 hour ago, Phill104 said:

There you go, not getting the sentiment of my comments but instead just trying to show what a clever bunny you are. We can all nit pick this way but the fact is there is a huge problem that needs to be at least talked about and in many cases acted upon.

 

Sure, it is a good thing much of the time, why should that stop us trying to weed out the often criminal activity that goes on? Or do you thing it is OK to leave videos of the rape of a 14 year old online by a group of scum up so the site in question can make advertising revenue? We must do something.

You need to qualify that statement, especially as there have been many governments over that period.

So what particular type of content are you scared they will ban? Is there something in particular you will miss? I think we need to see how it works out before we can comment on the effectiveness of this or whether it goes too far. I very much doubt it will be the latter!

1) Fair enough, I apologise. Funny thing is we seem to agree on sentiment, it's the details where the disagreement begins.

 

2) It shouldn't. I just don't think censorship is the way forward. Once you start censoring people then tend to take their activities underground and as long as there's kids with access to the internet there's someone willing to provide them with the means to 'socialise'. It's better out in the open than on some end to end encrypted platform where nobody except the bullies and victims can see it.

 

3) One perfect example, anti terror laws passed after 9/11. The laws were intended to protect the public from people wishing to do them harm. These days they're nothing but a catch all used by the police for profiling and to perform otherwise illegal searches and activities.

 

Main Rig:-

Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Corsair MP600 1TB PCIe Gen 4 | Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS |

 

Server:-

Intel NUC running Server 2019 + Synology DSM218+ with 2 x 4TB Toshiba NAS Ready HDDs (RAID0)

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