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Hanging on for dear life - Windows 7 won't let you shut it down

rcmaehl
7 hours ago, Commodus said:

I don't think it's too difficult.  Basically, anywhere the risks clearly outweigh the benefits.  Yeah, Windows is more of a risk than other platforms, but you're not about to ditch a common platform or the apps you use on it when you can take reasonable steps to secure it.  But running an outdated version with known exploits for no other reason than stubbornness or fear of change?  Yeah, that's introducing unnecessary risk.

Well it depends on how big of a threat we think botnets and other infections are.

The bigger and more serious the threat they are, the more incentive there is to ditch Windows completely and go to GNU/Linux/BSD/MacOS. The less of a threat they are, the less incentive there is to upgrade from Windows 7.

 

Just to be clear, I think people should upgrade to windows 10 too, but I think this whole scare tactic of "do it now or you're get infected!!!" is disingenuous, especially now when it's not even been a month since the last patches were released. People are no less secure on Windows 7 today, than they are on Windows 10. That will change over the year once more and more exploits gets discovered without being patched.

 

I also don't think bringing up security as a reason to upgrade to Windows 10 is all that valid either, because Windows 10 is just barely more secure than Windows 10. If security is a real concern, then you shouldn't use Windows at all. So clearly the people who are running Windows 10 and are advocating for Windows 10 aren't actually taking security too seriously. It might be somewhere on their priority list, but it's not far up. Windows 10 users prioritizes several things before security. If they didn't, then they wouldn't be on Windows.

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3 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

You are trying to argue that a user can mitigate an bot infection.  Hate to break it to you but the people who are working to mitigate becoming part of a bot net are the ones who won't be using windows 7.  

  I'm not saying something to make it true, I am pointing out a truth.  There is a big difference.   I don;t care who you think is skilled or not, but as I said before the skilled who know their shit won't be using 7 without updates.

 

Again, just because you say it's a threat doesn't make it so. If you believe that simply running Windows 7 is a threat you're more than mistaken. You can even run a Linux VM and do all of your online tasks through that if you really want to feel secure. Again, is it more of a risk to run 7? Sure. Is driving a '90 Civic more dangerous than a '19 with all it's safety features? Of course. But be careful and you'll survive.

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2 hours ago, BigDamn said:

Again, just because you say it's a threat doesn't make it so. If you believe that simply running Windows 7 is a threat you're more than mistaken. You can even run a Linux VM and do all of your online tasks through that if you really want to feel secure. Again, is it more of a risk to run 7? Sure. Is driving a '90 Civic more dangerous than a '19 with all it's safety features? Of course. But be careful and you'll survive.

 

You really need to learn what a botnet is and how it spreads. it is not like normal malware or viruses.  If you don't believe experts then You aren't going to believe me.

 

an example:

https://www.cnet.com/news/beware-windows-7-users-malware-campaign-targeting-iot-devices/

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

That's not what I said. What I said was that "it increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet" is not a valid argument because it applies to basically everything.

 

Using Windows 10 puts me at risk as well, and I'd say avoiding Windows is about as easy as avoiding email.

 

Again, "increases risk of becoming part of a botnet" is extremely broad and applies just as much to running Windows altogether as it does apply to just running Windows 7.

I'd say that move away from Windows altogether brings a bigger protection against botnet infections than moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10. If we are supposedly advocating for security here, then we should not recommend people upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10. We should recommend people upgrade from Windows 7 to GNU/Linux or some BSD distro.

 

 

Yes, and running Windows 10 is a risk too.

 

My point is that security is a spectrum and right now you're basically just going "everyone should do exactly as I do because I think that's the sweet spot". Well, a lot of people have drawn the line at other spots in the spectrum and are thinking just like you are.

 

You draw the line at "install Windows 10 because it is more secure than Windows 7" and think that's the sweet spot. Some people would argue that that's still considered a great risk and would draw the line at "install OpenBSD because it is more secure than Windows 10".

 

Do you understand my point? Your entire argument for why people should upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 is based on a rather unfounded idea that they need to increase the security of their computers, but not take it further than you have.

 

 

I genuinely believe that around 70% of people currently on Windows would manage just fine on OpenBSD, since they pretty much only need a web browser.

Most would need help installing it and configuring it on their computers, but the same can be said for Windows 7 -> 10.

 

Windows 7 is now a higher risk of becoming infected with a BOT, this is not an opinion it is a FACT.  I am sorry that FACT is so horrendous to you you wish to play dodge ball with words, but this FACT is not going to change. 

 

I alleviate risk by doing what I can, that means not running an unsupported OS and updating everything I have. it means not playing Russian roulette with emails and files on the internet.    But the most important thing I said is "doing what I can", and that means moving on from win 7.   Whether you like it or not, the fact is that people who remain on windows 7 are choosing to increase the risk.   

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I also don't think bringing up security as a reason to upgrade to Windows 10 is all that valid either, because Windows 10 is just barely more secure than Windows 10. If security is a real concern, then you shouldn't use Windows at all. So clearly the people who are running Windows 10 and are advocating for Windows 10 aren't actually taking security too seriously. It might be somewhere on their priority list, but it's not far up. Windows 10 users prioritizes several things before security. If they didn't, then they wouldn't be on Windows.

I like to think that i'm conscious about security, but i also do use Windows. there's just too many things that i need windows for to switching isn't really viable.

 

However I've also accepted the inherent privacy/security potential issues that comes with using Windows, i'm not blind to it or try to say peoples concerns are unfounded, but the pros do outweight the cons for me. 

 

Any Operating System a matter of compromise, it's just a point of how much, and what, you're willing to give up to use your preferred one.

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2 minutes ago, yaboistar said:

not only that but when you can get an activated copy of windows for literally £10, it just ends up being a no-brainer. privacy is a concern but if you're smart with what you do and you set up your options to tell microsoft to go take a hike about collecting your data you can absolutey minimise that risk

Not too sure about the 10 pound thing, but I agree with the sentiment, why use an unsupported OS that carries a higher risk when you don't have to.  Some people have to use email, some people have to use their phone/mobile internet for banking, but if you don't have to then it is smarter to avoid that.   Just like it is smarter to avoid 7 if you can.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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3 hours ago, mr moose said:

You really need to learn what a botnet is and how it spreads. it is not like normal malware or viruses.  If you don't believe experts then You aren't going to believe me.

 

an example:

https://www.cnet.com/news/beware-windows-7-users-malware-campaign-targeting-iot-devices/

I think you're misunderstanding something here.

Botnet is in and of itself not anything special. A botnet does not "spread" in any special way. A botnet is just a group of bots, and bots are just computers which have been infected with some malware which has a specific type of payload. The spread and delivery of the "bot payload" is not special.

Worm, trojan, virus, etc are all delivery methods of a range of different payloads, such as bot software, spyware, adware or ransomware.

 

 

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

Windows 7 is now a higher risk of becoming infected with a BOT, this is not an opinion it is a FACT.  I am sorry that FACT is so horrendous to you you wish to play dodge ball with words, but this FACT is not going to change. 

You don't get infected "with a bot". You get infected by something like a trojan, and the result is that your computer becomes a bot.

And no, it's not really a fact yet. It will become a fact, but it isn't right now.

Windows patches gets released the second Tuesday every month. This means that today is the first day Windows 7 is missing an update it would have received, and the day isn't even over yet.

 

Up until tomorrow, everything is exactly as it would have been if Windows 7 was still supported or not. Windows 7 have still received the same amount of updates as it would have been if it was still supported. However, as of tomorrow, the security of Windows 7 will become weaker and weaker, as more and more exploits are discovered but not patched.

The keyword there is "weaker and weaker". It's not like Windows 7 all of a sudden is insecure and horrible to use as soon as support ends. Security is a spectrum and it will slowly (or quickly, we'll see) move slide down the scale against the "insecure" spectrum.

 

I would say it's best to move off Windows 7 as soon as possible, but I won't lie and pretend like it's the end of the world and everyone need to change right this instance.

Like I said, you gain more protection by moving from Windows 10 to GNU/Linux, as you do moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10. That statement will change as more and more unpatched Windows 7 security holes are discovered, but as of the writing of this it is true.

 

 

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

I alleviate risk by doing what I can, that means not running an unsupported OS and updating everything I have. it means not playing Russian roulette with emails and files on the internet.    But the most important thing I said is "doing what I can", and that means moving on from win 7.   Whether you like it or not, the fact is that people who remain on windows 7 are choosing to increase the risk.   

Well, you could move away from Windows 10 too, but you choose not to. Because you don't value security as much as you value things like compatibility and using what you're used to. Incidentally, that's the same reasons people choose to stick to Windows 7.

 

Whether you like it or not, the fact is that people who are running Windows 10 are choosing to increase the risk as well. But they think the compatibility and familiarly of the OS is worth it.

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5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

...Using Windows 10 puts me at risk as well, and I'd say avoiding Windows is about as easy as avoiding email...

Actually, avoiding Windows is easier than most people think. It's the fear of the unknown and the learning curve necessary to do so that scares most people away from Windows alternatives.

 

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

You really need to learn what a botnet is and how it spreads. it is not like normal malware or viruses.  If you don't believe experts then You aren't going to believe me.

 

an example:

https://www.cnet.com/news/beware-windows-7-users-malware-campaign-targeting-iot-devices/

 

 

Wow! You really have an obsession with botnets. Yes, botnets are a danger but, then again, so is spyware, adware, ransomware, etc., not to mention frequent bad updates that make computers more vulnerable or break them.

 

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Windows 7 is now a higher risk of becoming infected with a BOT, this is not an opinion it is a FACT....  

People were saying pretty much the same thing when XP reached EOL yet there were no massive waves of botnets, etc., infesting the "interwebz" (and that is not an opinion, it is a fact).

 

Yes, staying with Windows 7 after EOL increases risks of infection (and not just from becoming part of a botnet, as you are obsessed with) but there are way to mitigate that risk, such as using quality AVs, other anti-malware programs, and a good firewall, not to mention also avoiding known risky websites, and just moving from the Windows environment altogether.

 

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

I like to think that i'm conscious about security, but i also do use Windows. there's just too many things that i need windows for to switching isn't really viable...

You might be surprised to learn that, in most cases, there are programs available in Linux that will allow most people to do everything they did in Windows. There are exceptions, of course, mostly work related, but for most people, it can be done. There will be a learning curve (you didn't learn how to use Windows overnight, did you?) and you may have to use different workflows, but, in most cases, it can be done.

 

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

...Up until tomorrow, everything is exactly as it would have been if Windows 7 was still supported or not. Windows 7 have still received the same amount of updates as it would have been if it was still supported. However, as of tomorrow, the security of Windows 7 will become weaker and weaker, as more and more exploits are discovered but not patched.

The keyword there is "weaker and weaker". It's not like Windows 7 all of a sudden is insecure and horrible to use as soon as support ends. Security is a scale and it will slowly move slide down the scale against the "insecure" spectrum.

 

I would say it's best to move off Windows 7 as soon as possible, but I won't lie and pretend like it's the end of the world and everyone need to change right this instance.

Like I said, you gain more protection by moving from Windows 10 to GNU/Linux, as you do moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10. That statement will change as more and more unpatched Windows 7 security holes are discovered, but as of the writing of this it is true...

Exactly. It used to be Win 7 was far more secure than Win 10 (with MS being the most prominent culprit) until MS started messing around with Win 7 a few years ago. Now, I do NOT trust anything from MS. Period.

 

Is Linux a direct replacment for Windows? Heck no! Not even close! While there are "flavors" of Linux (such as Mint Cinnamon) that look and seem to work a lot like Windows on the desktop, under the hood, Linux is completely different from Windows, the same as Mac is completely different from Windows.

 

Most programs in Windows do not have versions that will operate in Windows. Those that do often are a bit different. However, there are numerous programs in Linux that can directly replace Windows programs, although there will be a learning curve on how to use them. In other cases, it may be necessary to adopt completely different work flows to achieve the same end results. Being able to think outside the box is a huge advantage.

 

I do not advise just jumping from Windows to any flavor of Linux (I suggest Linux Mint Cinnamon since it is one of the "flavors" than most closely resembles Win 7 and has a large support community). That's like moving to a foreign country not knowing how to speak the language there and no one there speaks your language. It can be done but it would be a nightmare for quite a while.

 

Instead, install Linux on a spare, older machine (older machines are more likely to be compatible with Linux), then dip your toes into the Linux waters gradually. I have various learning difficulties and that was what worked for me. I learned fast enough I was able to be fully functional on Linux in around six weeks. Was I fully proficient by then? Heck no! I still have a long ways to go before I get as proficient as I was on Windows but that hasn't slowed me down any; it just means I have to ask for help far more often.

 

There is only one Windows program I used to use that doesn't have any equivalent in Linux. It's an expensive professional music engraving program (music engraving programs replace the old method of actually engraving and stamping plates of metal by had for printing sheet music) I used to use when I wrote and arranged music. I haven't done that in over a decade and don't have any plans on doing so again but, if I still needed to, I could always keep a Win 7 machine or two around and just use it offline for that program only.

Jeannie

 

As long as anyone is oppressed, no one will be safe and free.

One has to be proactive, not reactive, to ensure the safety of one's data so backup your data! And RAID is NOT a backup!

 

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I have one PC still on Win7 and it will stay that way as I need it to run Windows Media Center (WMC) for my TV.  I don't have an option as I need to use a cable card tuner and Win8.1 software packages for WMC are no longer available.  This PC only goes out to the cosmic ether to download the TV schedule daily from Schedules Direct and to stream content from select providers such as Netflix, Amazon Prime, and ESPN.  I don't download any other websites or download anything on that PC.  I use the new MSFT Chromium browser which is still supported on Win7 and Microsoft Security Essentials is still supported for 18 more months.  Maybe when that support runs out, I'll need a new AV solution, we'll see.  There are a lot of us who will continue to run Win7 PC for this single application; it's a lot cheaper than paying for a cable box.

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6 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

You really need to learn what a botnet is and how it spreads. it is not like normal malware or viruses.  If you don't believe experts then You aren't going to believe me.

 

an example:

https://www.cnet.com/news/beware-windows-7-users-malware-campaign-targeting-iot-devices/

 

 

I think you need to realize that nobody here agrees with you, so it may be worth revisiting this topic yourself. Meanwhile, I will continue to safely use Windows 7, 10, Linux, etc. as I've been doing for many years now.

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19 hours ago, mr moose said:

It's a legitimate problem of running an unsupported OS, just because you can think of other problems doesn't change this one.

Of course, but you can't avoid using email like you can windows 7

Bit of a stretch for context and applicability to the issue.  but if you have a reason to do that be careful,  that's still not a reason to unnecessarily run an outdated OS and still doesn't change the fact that it is more likely to become part of a botnet.

 

 

None of that makes windows 7 less of a risk.   It is a risk and every time someone takes a risk they increase the probability of infection.

 

 

You can defer Windows 10 updates for 6-12 months. Do botnets for for market share, low hanging fruit, or both? :)

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17 hours ago, Commodus said:

But running an outdated version with known exploits for no other reason than stubbornness or fear of change?

I have some other reasons:

 

1: It takes hours to pop a Windows 10 iso on a usb stick and install Windows and reinstall all programs and backup everything beforehand and make sure you don't miss anything as else you'll be in big trouble.

 

2: Having to relearn lots of things (on an operating system that you yourself don't even like nor properly understand) to all family members is frustrating for both parties.

 

3: Not knowing that the update is there or not knowing what to do with the update or not being technically knowledgeable enough to properly install the update.

 

4: Thinking "ah it'll be a while until it's finally over" and then later realising it's already been weeks since the end.

 

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13 minutes ago, TomvanWijnen said:

I have some other reasons:

 

1: It takes hours to pop a Windows 10 iso on a usb stick and install Windows and reinstall all programs and backup everything beforehand and make sure you don't miss anything as else you'll be in big trouble.

 

Not really.  I ended up with a corrupt OS drive three weeks ago.  All my data is on separate drives so I never lose anything.  I did a full Win10 reinstall including all the programs I normally use in less than 90 minutes.  All the program serial numbers are on a text document so I just have to copy and paste to activate.   It takes maybe 15 minutes, if that, to prepare a win10 ISO and Win 10 installs very quickly, much faster than any previous version of Windows in my experience.  Since I have all my program shortcuts on the desk top I never use the Win 10 start button.

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21 minutes ago, TomvanWijnen said:

I have some other reasons:

 

1: It takes hours to pop a Windows 10 iso on a usb stick and install Windows and reinstall all programs and backup everything beforehand and make sure you don't miss anything as else you'll be in big trouble.

 

What? Are you buringing a DVD? Max time to make a bootable USB 10-15 mins (depending your system)

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5 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

You might be surprised to learn that, in most cases, there are programs available in Linux that will allow most people to do everything they did in Windows. There are exceptions, of course, mostly work related, but for most people, it can be done.

That may be the case for some people. But I have paid big money for software (and games) that will only work on Windows. So I'm not about to drop them just so I can use Linux. 

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48 minutes ago, Arika S said:

That may be the case for some people. But I have paid big money for software (and games) that will only work on Windows. So I'm not about to drop them just so I can use Linux. 

So, gradually ease into Linux. You don't want to dive into Linux head first anyway. Most software you buy will eventually expire and need to upgrade so just use the paid software in Win 7 until it expires, then replace it with something (or somethings) in Linux. Many people make their transition from Windows to Linux this way, often taking months to years before fully transitioning.

 

With games that work only on Windows, just keep a Windows machine for them until you tire of them (if ever). Linux hasn't been particularly game friendly in the past but that is rapidly changing.

 

I had paid software (one costs $600) that I chose to walk away from rather than conrinue to stay with windows. Other software I purchased (ranging in price from $100 to $300) more recently (in the past three years) I carefully chose to have lifetime licenses and have versions for Linux so I was able to carry them over with me.

Jeannie

 

As long as anyone is oppressed, no one will be safe and free.

One has to be proactive, not reactive, to ensure the safety of one's data so backup your data! And RAID is NOT a backup!

 

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5 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Most software you buy will eventually expire and need to upgrade so just use the paid software in Win 7 until it expires

It won't expire because it's not a subscription/cloud-based software. The key will always work. I also use Windows 10

 

Quote

With games that work only on Windows, just keep a Windows machine for them until you tire of them (if ever).

given that most of the time spend on my desktop will be gaming, it would be wildly inefficient to restart the computer every time i want to play a game, then if i take a break for an hour or so, restart into linux, do what ever, restart again to then start playing again. Linux is not worth the hassle for me. Trust me, i've tried multiple times to even move just my laptop (not a gaming machine) to Linux and eventually reverted back to Windows because of all the issues it was facing. 

 

9 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

I had paid software (one costs $600) that I chose to walk away from rather than conrinue to stay with windows.

We're in different situations though. Going by your post history you have a massive dislike for Microsoft and a complete aversion to Windows. I don't. As i said in a previous post, i know what i'm giving up to stay with windows and have accepted that, i do what i can to minimize the risk, but i would be giving up a LOT more if i moved to Linux.

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9 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I think you're misunderstanding something here.

Botnet is in and of itself not anything special. A botnet does not "spread" in any special way. A botnet is just a group of bots, and bots are just computers which have been infected with some malware which has a specific type of payload. The spread and delivery of the "bot payload" is not special.

Worm, trojan, virus, etc are all delivery methods of a range of different payloads, such as bot software, spyware, adware or ransomware.

 

 

You don't get infected "with a bot". You get infected by something like a trojan, and the result is that your computer becomes a bot.

And no, it's not really a fact yet. It will become a fact, but it isn't right now.

Windows patches gets released the second Tuesday every month. This means that today is the first day Windows 7 is missing an update it would have received, and the day isn't even over yet.

I linked to several articles that disagree with what you just said.

 

9 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Up until tomorrow, everything is exactly as it would have been if Windows 7 was still supported or not. Windows 7 have still received the same amount of updates as it would have been if it was still supported. However, as of tomorrow, the security of Windows 7 will become weaker and weaker, as more and more exploits are discovered but not patched.

The keyword there is "weaker and weaker". It's not like Windows 7 all of a sudden is insecure and horrible to use as soon as support ends. Security is a spectrum and it will slowly (or quickly, we'll see) move slide down the scale against the "insecure" spectrum.

 

You are really trying to hard to disagree while knowing what I said is still true.

 

9 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I would say it's best to move off Windows 7 as soon as possible, but I won't lie and pretend like it's the end of the world and everyone need to change right this instance.

Like I said, you gain more protection by moving from Windows 10 to GNU/Linux, as you do moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10. That statement will change as more and more unpatched Windows 7 security holes are discovered, but as of the writing of this it is true.

 

No one said it was the end of the world, I said it was higher risk to becoming part of a botnet (which is true) and that effects everyone else on the net (also true).

 

9 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Well, you could move away from Windows 10 too, but you choose not to. Because you don't value security as much as you value things like compatibility and using what you're used to. Incidentally, that's the same reasons people choose to stick to Windows 7.

 

Whether you like it or not, the fact is that people who are running Windows 10 are choosing to increase the risk as well. But they think the compatibility and familiarly of the OS is worth it.

Know your conflating risks to avoid having to except what I said.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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7 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

 

 

Wow! You really have an obsession with botnets. Yes, botnets are a danger but, then again, so is spyware, adware, ransomware, etc., not to mention frequent bad updates that make computers more vulnerable or break them.

An obsession?  all I said was windows 7 without support is at a higher risk, it seems you, so why is everyone trying to distract from that by talking about other things that are risks?  How does people wanting to ignore an avoidable risk make me obsessed?

 

7 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

 

People were saying pretty much the same thing when XP reached EOL yet there were no massive waves of botnets, etc., infesting the "interwebz" (and that is not an opinion, it is a fact).

 

That you know about.

 

7 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Yes, staying with Windows 7 after EOL increases risks of infection (and not just from becoming part of a botnet, as you are obsessed with) but there are way to mitigate that risk, such as using quality AVs, other anti-malware programs, and a good firewall, not to mention also avoiding known risky websites, and just moving from the Windows environment altogether.

So you agree it does but you want to make it sound like it doesn't by calling me obsessed?   There is no way to mitigate from a botnet that exploits an unsupported OS unless you know it is there.  Please for the love of god, will people read the links I posted.  I thought you guys were all knew what a botnet was. It seems you are interested in ignoring half of it to propel some personal interest in windows 7.  It's just an OS, and I find it hypocritical that many you think it is ok to argue moving to Linux to mitigate risk but not to move from win7? (even when you all acknowledge there is nothing wrong in what I said).

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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4 hours ago, BigDamn said:

I think you need to realize that nobody here agrees with you, so it may be worth revisiting this topic yourself. Meanwhile, I will continue to safely use Windows 7, 10, Linux, etc. as I've been doing for many years now.

They actually aren't for the most part, they keep saying "yes windows 7 is at a higher risk" which is exactly all I've said, they just seem to not like the fact and want to make it sound like it isn't a risk by making false equivalencies.  Please read the links I have posted before commenting further.  I am growing tired of people not understanding the problem.

4 hours ago, TechyBen said:

You can defer Windows 10 updates for 6-12 months. Do botnets for for market share, low hanging fruit, or both? :)

Bots can self propagate and usually are designed to lay dormant for a time so they don't trigger anything that will give a way their existence.  If  you don't know they are there or can't detect them then the exploit they used to get there isn't patched.  There have been several windows bots discovered over the years, some of them very well designed.  There was one discovered in 2018 that self propagated, laid dormant for 14 days to avoid detection.

 

https://www.zdnet.com/article/this-new-windows-malware-wants-to-add-your-pc-to-a-botnet-or-worse/

 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I linked to several articles that disagree with what you just said.

No you haven't. It's just that you don't understand what the articles are saying.

None of the articles you have linked says what you think they say. A botnet is not something that spreads in a special way. A botnet is the result of payloads delivered through the same type of means as other malware.

Don't believe me when I say botnets are caused by regular malware which might as well be ransomware? Here are some statistics from spamhaus. In 2017 here were the most common bots and where they came from:

1) Downloader.Pony - A Trojan horse which spread through email.

2) IoT malware - Just a generic term for insecure IoT devices that gets infected, somehow.

3) Loki - Malware that was also spread through, you guessed it, email.

4) Chthonic - A Trojan which spread through spam messages.

5) Smoke Loader - Oh would you look at that, another malware that creates a botnet which was spread through spam emails.

 

So out of the 5 largest botnets of 2017, 4 of them were created through email spam. I could go on but I think you get the point. Botnets are created primarily through email spam, not some advanced drive-by download of a self executing exe, or self-spreading like a worm (other than sending itself as emails that is), or some other thing.

Botnets are primarily created by people downloading Trojans (like a pirated program) or from opening email attachments. That's it. There is nothing special about botnets which makes them spread in any particular way. A botnet is just the effect of a malware, which uses the same old fashion delivery methods as any other malware.

 

 

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

You are really trying to hard to disagree while knowing what I said is still true.

No what you have said is not true, yet. That "yet" is very important. It's the difference between a lie and the truth.

 

 

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

No one said it was the end of the world, I said it was higher risk to becoming part of a botnet (which is true) and that effects everyone else on the net (also true).

That will start being true tomorrow, but only very slightly true. As time goes on, that statement will be more and more accurate. It's a pretty small risk though.

Like I've said earlier, going from Windows 10 to a GNU/Linux distro provides FAR more protection than going from Windows 7 to Windows 10.

Let's say security can be graded from 1 to 10.

Right now, Windows 7 is a 4. I'll guess that by the end of the year it'll be a 3.

Windows 10 is a 5. It's slightly more secure but not that much.

Your run of the mill GNU/Linux distro like Ubuntu is an 7.

 

 

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Know your conflating risks to avoid having to except what I said.

I don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate?

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

An obsession?  all I said was windows 7 without support is at a higher risk, it seems you, so why is everyone trying to distract from that by talking about other things that are risks?  How does people wanting to ignore an avoidable risk make me obsessed?

But that's not true. Windows 7 without support isn't a higher risk. Windows 7 with unpatched and known vulnerabilities is a higher risk.

Those vulnerabilities will start coming in now than it isn't receiving updates anymore, but until those actually start showing up (which they haven't) the risk is no greater than it was before.

I know you think we are saying the same thing and that I'm just "arguing for the sake of it", but it is a VERY important difference. Software does not become a risk because a lack of support. It becomes a risk because of functional exploits.

 

 

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

That you know about.

 

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6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

An obsession?  all I said was windows 7 without support is at a higher risk, it seems you, so why is everyone trying to distract from that by talking about other things that are risks?  How does people wanting to ignore an avoidable risk make me obsessed?...

 

Because that is all you talk about.

 

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

...That you know about...

 

So give us some examples of widespread infections in XP that were diredtly due to people using it after EOL.

 

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

...So you agree it does but you want to make it sound like it doesn't by calling me obsessed?   There is no way to mitigate from a botnet that exploits an unsupported OS unless you know it is there.  Please for the love of god, will people read the links I posted.  I thought you guys were all knew what a botnet was. It seems you are interested in ignoring half of it to propel some personal interest in windows 7.  It's just an OS, and I find it hypocritical that many you think it is ok to argue moving to Linux to mitigate risk but not to move from win7? (even when you all acknowledge there is nothing wrong in what I said).

 

We aren't continuously referring to them as they are the only danger nor are we saying there is no protection from them (there are ways to avoid them). You are making a mountain out of a molehill (granted, it's a large molehill but nowhere remotely near the size of the mountain you are making it out to be).

 

Most of us here do know what a bot net is. Most of us also know how to detect one (there are many ways, btw, such as increased internet usage and using anti-malware programs) and how to get out of one (again, most anti-malware programs can deal with them just fine; push come to shove, one can wipe a drive and reinstall and, for the really tricky ones, reflash the BIOS although that is rarely necessary). Even if they are lying dormant for a few weeks, they still can be detected.

 

Also, your ZDNet article is almost two years old. Most AVs and/or other anti-malware programs learned how to deal with that bot pretty quickly.

 

 

Jeannie

 

As long as anyone is oppressed, no one will be safe and free.

One has to be proactive, not reactive, to ensure the safety of one's data so backup your data! And RAID is NOT a backup!

 

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1 hour ago, Arika S said:

It won't expire because it's not a subscription/cloud-based software. The key will always work. I also use Windows 10...

A program doesn't have to be subscription/could based to expire (actually, I should hav said reach EOL). once a program reaches EOL, it will not longer receive and security updates and, if a new security hole is discovered, you wil be out of luck. Also, if a new OS comes out, the older program may not run onnit and you will be forced to upgrade.

 

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

...given that most of the time spend on my desktop will be gaming, it would be wildly inefficient to restart the computer every time i want to play a game, then if i take a break for an hour or so, restart into linux, do what ever, restart again to then start playing again. Linux is not worth the hassle for me. Trust me, i've tried multiple times to even move just my laptop (not a gaming machine) to Linux and eventually reverted back to Windows because of all the issues it was facing....

You weren't paying attention. I said to install Linux on another machine, not the same machine you have Windows on.

 

What kind of issues did you have when you tried installing Linux on a laptop?

 

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

...We're in different situations though. Going by your post history you have a massive dislike for Microsoft and a complete aversion to Windows. I don't. As i said in a previous post, i know what i'm giving up to stay with windows and have accepted that, i do what i can to minimize the risk, but i would be giving up a LOT more if i moved to Linux.

Damned right I have a massive dislike for Microsoft (more like pure hatred) ever since Gates retired and that maniac Balmer took over. That "dislike" intensified after Balmer was replaced by Nadella. Up until Gates retired, I loved MS and Windows but that has changed. I know what I'm giving up by not staying with Windows: frequent broken updates, forced updates that you can, at best, only delay, constant changes that not infrequently results in software and hardware that will not longer work, data collection by MS (which you can only temporarily partially disable, underhanded tricks to try to force people to what MS wants, not what people want (such as downgrade Win 7 and Win 8.1 long before their EOL to Win 10), gradually sneaking up on what will be a cloud and/or subscription based service in an Apple-like walled garden, adding ads, etc.

Jeannie

 

As long as anyone is oppressed, no one will be safe and free.

One has to be proactive, not reactive, to ensure the safety of one's data so backup your data! And RAID is NOT a backup!

 

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That's where I am - I do not like the strong-arming MS has done to force Win 10 onto everyone.

Combined with all the broken update problems, lack of control on the user end literally removed by MS along the way and so on, it's nothing I want or will have.

Not to mention as I've said before the built-in spyware it has.

 

Anytime someone wants to take something and just shove it down everyone's throat there is a reason and it's usually not in your best interest..... But typically is for them vs you.

 

To me, that's what Linux is for and I have it ready to go at anytime but until then I'll run Win 7 "Thank you very much".

"If you ever need anything please don't hesitate to ask someone else first"..... Nirvana
"Whadda ya mean I ain't kind? Just not your kind"..... Megadeth
Speaking of things being "All Inclusive", Hell itself is too.

 

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Linux is fine if you have apps that run on that OS.  Unfortunately, none of the Adobe photo programs that I use have been ported to Linux and I have no clue whether the Linux OS is color managed which is critical for me. 

Workstation PC Specs: CPU - i7 8700K; MoBo - ASUS TUF Z390; RAM - 32GB Crucial; GPU - Gigabyte RTX 1660 Super; PSU - SeaSonic Focus GX 650; Storage - 500GB Samsung EVO, 3x2TB WD HDD;  Case - Fractal Designs R6; OS - Win10

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