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I want to understand Window remote desktop basics.

RainColt

Hi, I'm working on a project for school where I need to propose a hardware solution to a hypothetical client, and based on the budget, scale and requirement of ecc memory I concluded that I need to centralize the solution and run VM's, the problem is I don't know the basics of server software and I'm missing some fundamental virtualization knowledge I was hoping someone could maybe try to explain some of these or point me in the right direction to where I can learn the answers to these questions..

I need to know more about the solutions available for both creating virtual machines and also for removing into those machines.
I also need to know how many processor cores would need to be dedicated to the core OS running the VM's (for example: If I have a 32 core 2990x, how many 2 core virtual machines can I actually deploy from that system?)

The scope is 250 computers and peripherals for $250,000, ecc memory is required

Why do you always die right after I fix you?

 

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There are many different solutions for running hypervisor Operating systems, PROXMOX, ESXi, HyperV, VMware for Workstations, Citrix Server, Debian+QEMU, etc.

 

How to connect to the VMs depend on on what manor of performance you're looking for. There's RDP, PARSEC, Teamviewer, AnyDesk, RealVNC, etc. Some leverage GPU acceleration to give you near native performance over the network others lack this but support functions like file transfers.

 

For hardware all the VMs share the CPUs. They're not strictly used by any one VM (although CPU pinning is a thing). So you can run as many as you like until CPU utilization gets too high. Depending on what the VMs are doing 250 is in no way an unreasonable number for a single server. Say if this is a deployment for a series of thin-clients its very reasonable for a 32 core system with room for more.

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1 hour ago, Windows7ge said:

-snip-

 

For hardware all the VMs share the CPUs. They're not strictly used by any one VM (although CPU pinning is a thing). So you can run as many as you like until CPU utilization gets too high. Depending on what the VMs are doing 250 is in no way an unreasonable number for a single server. Say if this is a deployment for a series of thin-clients its very reasonable for a 32 core system with room for more.

Wow, This was incredibly enlightening, my teacher attempted to explain this concept to me today but it didn't click until you scaled it completely beyond what I thought plausible, thank you so much.

Why do you always die right after I fix you?

 

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3 hours ago, RainColt said:

Hi, I'm working on a project for school where I need to propose a hardware solution to a hypothetical client, and based on the budget, scale and requirement of ecc memory I concluded that I need to centralize the solution and run VM's, the problem is I don't know the basics of server software and I'm missing some fundamental virtualization knowledge I was hoping someone could maybe try to explain some of these or point me in the right direction to where I can learn the answers to these questions..

You able to post a more exact brief of the assignment, not looking to outright hand over everything you need but I'd like to get a feel for it and my own interpretation of what is being asked.

 

I don't think virtual desktops is the most appropriate solution if that is the path you were going to go down, not many actually do that and real world licensing for it is highly complicated and expensive. You're not actually allowed to just spin up a ton of VMs for people to RDP connect in to.

 

You are correct in looking to VMs though as you'll need or should do that for the server that these 250 computers connect to and to manage them etc.

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9 hours ago, leadeater said:

You able to post a more exact brief of the assignment, not looking to outright hand over everything you need but I'd like to get a feel for it and my own interpretation of what is being asked.

 

I don't think virtual desktops is the most appropriate solution if that is the path you were going to go down, not many actually do that and real world licensing for it is highly complicated and expensive. You're not actually allowed to just spin up a ton of VMs for people to RDP connect in to.

 

You are correct in looking to VMs though as you'll need or should do that for the server that these 250 computers connect to and to manage them etc.

Thats fair. The basic summary is that we need to create a proposal with a budget of 250,000. We need to use that budget to create 250 dual core, ecc compatible computers, which support wake on lan and supply monitors, mouse, keyboards, headset to those computers. I couldn't tell you if software needs to be included in the budget.

 

I originally thought ryzen because they all support ecc memory but motherboards were difficult to track down

Why do you always die right after I fix you?

 

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I just realized that maybe ryzen is the right solution, it might not matter if the board says it supports ecc memory because the memory controller is built into the cpu

Why do you always die right after I fix you?

 

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1 hour ago, RainColt said:

We need to use that budget to create 250 dual core, ecc compatible computers

Why ECC? Sure for the server but for the 250 computers that doesn't make any sense. Business grade desktops from HP/Dell etc typically don't even have that as an option unless you're buying high end workstations with lots of ram, very odd requirement.

 

Here's an example, this is what we use at work (high thousands of them). https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-elitedesk-800-g5-small-form-factor-pc-customizable-6bd64av-1. General office computers don't require ECC and wouldn't benefit from it so none of the standard vendors out there even bother to offer it because Intel doesn't have it on standard desktop parts, also due to no demand for it.

 

A better option is the HP EliteDesk 705 G4 though with the 2200G CPU upgrade + 128GB M.2 No HDD or DVD + KB/Mouse, https://store.hp.com/us/en/ConfigureView?catalogId=10051&langId=-1&storeId=10151&urlLangId=&catEntryId=3074457345619026818&quantity=1.

 

List price for that config is $637.45 but if you're buying 250 you'd likely get volume discount to maybe $625, so you're at ~$156k without monitor with all the required Windows licenses.

 

No idea if you actually need to also spec a server or anything but that won't cost any more than $15k, $35k if you want dual server and external storage array to setup HA VM hosting to cover off resiliency. Either option you can run a domain controller VM (or 2) for authentication and management of the computers and a storage server VM to host all the files so nothing is stored on the desktops.

 

$250k is actually a pretty generous budget to work with.

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3 hours ago, leadeater said:

Why ECC? Sure for the server but for the 250 computers that doesn't make any sense. Business grade desktops from HP/Dell etc typically don't even have that as an option unless you're buying high end workstations with lots of ram, very odd requirement.

 

Here's an example, this is what we use at work (high thousands of them). https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-elitedesk-800-g5-small-form-factor-pc-customizable-6bd64av-1. General office computers don't require ECC and wouldn't benefit from it so none of the standard vendors out there even bother to offer it because Intel doesn't have it on standard desktop parts, also due to no demand for it.

 

A better option is the HP EliteDesk 705 G4 though with the 2200G CPU upgrade + 128GB M.2 No HDD or DVD + KB/Mouse, https://store.hp.com/us/en/ConfigureView?catalogId=10051&langId=-1&storeId=10151&urlLangId=&catEntryId=3074457345619026818&quantity=1.

 

List price for that config is $637.45 but if you're buying 250 you'd likely get volume discount to maybe $625, so you're at ~$156k without monitor with all the required Windows licenses.

 

No idea if you actually need to also spec a server or anything but that won't cost any more than $15k, $35k if you want dual server and external storage array to setup HA VM hosting to cover off resiliency. Either option you can run a domain controller VM (or 2) for authentication and management of the computers and a storage server VM to host all the files so nothing is stored on the desktops.

 

$250k is actually a pretty generous budget to work with.

I know, I genuinely don't know why It requires ECC, it's just what the assignment says. It would be really easy if it weren't for that ECC support garbage (I'd just give everyone an intel NUC and walk away), like based on the specs and peripheral requirements I assume this projects scope is something along the lines of a call center, so ECC is really silly, but it is what it is and I gotta make a proposal that complies to the requirements.

Why do you always die right after I fix you?

 

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4 hours ago, RainColt said:

I know, I genuinely don't know why It requires ECC, it's just what the assignment says. It would be really easy if it weren't for that ECC support garbage (I'd just give everyone an intel NUC and walk away), like based on the specs and peripheral requirements I assume this projects scope is something along the lines of a call center, so ECC is really silly, but it is what it is and I gotta make a proposal that complies to the requirements.

If it helps a lot of the Intel Celeron and Pentium Gold support ECC and there are CPU+MB combos with those, a lot of pre-built NAS and thin clients use them.

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