Reducing cooling to reduce overall noise

[Zelenia]

Hey,

 

I got new desktop which I feel like that it's too noisy because of the case + part combination. It almost feels like that there is "echo" inside the case when fans kick to full speed. 

 

I've decided to adjust fan speed of both CPU and GPU to reduce noise and I'm also compromising with performance in return so I don't cook the machine.

 

GPU fan will be "soft-capped" to 60% until temperature reaches 80°C (176 °F) and then it can speed up as much as it needs.

CPU fans/case fans will stay under 60% speed until CPU temperature reaches 65°C (149 °F).

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Zelenia91/saved/X73Czy

 

The question is, how bad idea is this? Is there anything I need to take into count while doing this? I assume it affects in the lifespan of the parts even though they stay in safe temperatures.

 

My gaming laptop (MSI GE72) I had since 2016 or so was always around 88°C both GPU and CPU during heavy gaming sessions yet it never died.  It did throttle quite often though.

[Adorable Cat]

The parts should be fine, they're still inside their safe temperature ranges. 

[TVwazhere]

28 minutes ago, Zelenia said:

The question is, how bad idea is this? Is there anything I need to take into count while doing this? I assume it affects in the lifespan of the parts even though they stay in safe temperatures.

Nothing wrong with this. All modern day CPU's and GPUs can operate fully at or under 80ºC without performance or life duration loss. It's not heat that kills CPU components, it's the Hot-cold-hot-cold-hot cycles (at things get hot, they expand, and shrink when they get cold. It's this constant size change due to temperature that causes parts to have shorter life spans, like how water freezes and creates cracks in roadways)

[Spaceman_Wil]

It cost me a few extra bucks but to reduce noise, I replaced all my fans with Noctuas and boy was that a game changer in both the cooling and noise department.

[Zelenia]

17 hours ago, Spaceman_Wil said:

It cost me a few extra bucks but to reduce noise, I replaced all my fans with Noctuas and boy was that a game changer in both the cooling and noise department.

The case fans I got atm are (probably) BitFenix Spectre 120mm. Their page claims that they create <20dB meanwhile Noctua fan I got makes <22dB. It doesn't seem like a huge difference to me but do Noctua fans create "smoother" sound profile? Can I use just same cables to replace fans if I pick one that uses same connectors? If it's not too much of hassle I'll look into it.

 

Thanks @TVwazhere and @Adorable Cat for replies also.  So yeah I'll be fine as long as I don't go too much over 80°C.

 

Is there any software to adjust CPU/case fans through operating system? Speedfan doesn't recocnize my fans so I need to boot into BIOS to do that. It's bit painful because I need to use mouse to adjust graph manually instead of typing and my old naga lags a lot in BIOS screen.

[WoodenMarker]

23 hours ago, Zelenia said:

The case fans I got atm are (probably) BitFenix Spectre 120mm. Their page claims that they create <20dB meanwhile Noctua fan I got makes <22dB. It doesn't seem like a huge difference to me but do Noctua fans create "smoother" sound profile? Can I use just same cables to replace fans if I pick one that uses same connectors? If it's not too much of hassle I'll look into it.

 

Is there any software to adjust CPU/case fans through operating system? Speedfan doesn't recocnize my fans so I need to boot into BIOS to do that. It's bit painful because I need to use mouse to adjust graph manually instead of typing and my old naga lags a lot in BIOS screen.

Tonality is very important to how unpleasant or disruptive a fan can be despite the volume. I also don't recommend comparing fans through manufacturer specs if possible since there's little to no regulation between them for how it's measured. Stick with controlled recordings or benchmarks instead. 

Which cables are you referring to?

The motherboard website might have fan software available.

Have you tried using the mouse through a different usb port?

[Zelenia]

8 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

Tonality is very important to how unpleasant or disruptive a fan can be despite the volume. I also don't recommend comparing fans through manufacturer specs if possible since there's little to no regulation between them for how it's measured. Stick with controlled recordings or benchmarks instead. 

Which cables are you referring to?

The motherboard website might have fan software available.

Have you tried using the mouse through a different usb port?

I see, so I'll look into third party reviews instead of manufacturer specs. Bequiet seems to be popular too but it provides less airflow. 

 

I did mean pin connection to mobo/psu I really don't know how the fans are connected atm because I didn't assemble this pc myself.

 

Hmm i haven't I need to try to connect mouse to other usb port next. 

 

Seems trying to control gpu and cpu fans myself leads easily components getting fairly hot. Meh, such pain. Also lowering cpu fan speed seems to affect directly to gpu temperature too (gpu is above cpu fan in this case). 

 

I'll try to figure this out somehow. Thanks!

[mr mans]

Sometimes with cooling, particularly with hot parts or when overclocking, it is important to get on the cooling way sooner in the temperature curve. The heat will sometimes run away from you. More heat = more electricity = more heat = thermal throttling. So by the time you are at 80 C and then your cooling starts to kick in it may already be too late to prevent throttling. 

 

I would instead invest in silent fans, like stuff from Be Quiet! or Noctua 

[Tristerin]

9 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

Tonality is very important to how unpleasant or disruptive a fan can be despite the volume.

Yup!  Sone is the measurement used for this I learned about while getting in touch with my need for to many fans going in a rig.  

 

Arctic P12's have the most pleasant to my ears tone at max speed.

[Zelenia]

@vukos and @Tristerin thanks.

 

Yeah I'm balancing bit between if I should buy better fans or just replace this GPU with more expensive one with less annoying fans...  It depends if better case fans will help GPU to stay cool. I probably will try first with something cheap like those Arctic fans because spending lots of money of Noctua or BeQuiet to gain nothing is kinda... well waste. I got one Noctua fan in the case atm (in front of GPU) but it's not helping much. GPU fan is still going about 2200-2400rpm when playing Overwatch 1080p on medium settings (capped to 100FPS).

 

I also need to contact the store who did build this pc to find out how they did install the fans (for me it looks like they are all just blowing out and no intake at all, I can't see the arrows because there are some plating blocking my view. 

[Tristerin]

4 minutes ago, Zelenia said:

@vukos and @Tristerin thanks.

 

Yeah I'm balancing bit between if I should buy better fans or just replace this GPU with more expensive one with less annoying fans...  It depends if better case fans will help GPU to stay cool. I probably will try first with something cheap like those Arctic fans because spending lots of money of Noctua or BeQuiet to gain nothing is kinda... well waste. I got one Noctua fan in the case atm (in front of GPU) but it's not helping much. GPU fan is still going about 2200-2400rpm when playing Overwatch 1080p on medium settings (capped to 100FPS).

 

I also need to contact the store who did build this pc to find out how they did install the fans (for me it looks like they are all just blowing out and no intake at all, I can't see the arrows because there are some plating blocking my view. 

I just looked at your PC Partpicker and actual GPU - those have horrid reviews for noise due to the terrible design on the TUF models cooling (smallish fans, shroud keeping heat in).  

 

You could try replacing the thermal paste if you are a DIY type (check youtube for people showing teardown on your exact card) with a higher quality paste (I recommend TG Kryonaut) but I don't see there being much in the way of helping as these are known loud GPUs

 

EDIT (beyond trying a better TIM, or aftermarket solution - Arctic Accelero or Kraken G12)

[Zelenia]

1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

I just looked at your PC Partpicker and actual GPU - those have horrid reviews for noise due to the terrible design on the TUF models cooling (smallish fans, shroud keeping heat in).  

 

You could try replacing the thermal paste if you are a DIY type (check youtube for people showing teardown on your exact card) with a higher quality paste (I recommend TG Kryonaut) but I don't see there being much in the way of helping as these are known loud GPUs

Oh well, no wonder it was on sale then. It's brand new GPU and I think I rather don't lose warranty on this. Thanks for finding this out for me though. I was smart enough to not buy more TUF stuff at least.

[Tristerin]

Just now, Zelenia said:

Oh well, no wonder it was on sale then. It's brand new GPU and I think I rather don't lose warranty on this. Thanks for finding this out for me though. I was smart enough to not buy more TUF stuff at least.

It just seems to be this model of TUF GPU heatsink/shroud/fans.  However you have the right approach, as long as its within its thermal limits you don't have to keep it any cooler so even having it a couple Celsius lower than max (before thermal throttle) is 100% okay for the card.  Keep adjusting fan curve until you find something suitable.  

[Zelenia]

1 hour ago, Tristerin said:

It just seems to be this model of TUF GPU heatsink/shroud/fans.  However you have the right approach, as long as its within its thermal limits you don't have to keep it any cooler so even having it a couple Celsius lower than max (before thermal throttle) is 100% okay for the card.  Keep adjusting fan curve until you find something suitable.  

I'll try though I still might contact the seller and try to come up with some deal.  But yeah before that I'll try to adjust the fan and hope that I can make it bearable and still be able to play games. No ultra for me tho. Hehe.

 

/edit

 

Nah, won't do. It gets too hot if I want to keep it under certain noise levels. I'll need to check and compare other rtx 2060 or even gtx 1660ti if any of them got fans with less annoying sound. Aftermarket cooler will become an option if I can't get refund.

[BruceWayneofLosSanto]

Noctua don't really make any sound, the only sound you hear is the air crashing against the heatsink.

[Zelenia]

8 hours ago, BruceWayneofLosSanto said:

Noctua don't really make any sound, the only sound you hear is the air crashing against the heatsink.

I'll need to look into that. Noctua fans are bit expensive when they are here about 30€ each. Maybe I can buy and replace them 1b1. 

 

And no I couldn't get refund from this horrid GPU.  So I guess I'm stuck with it and play games with medium/low settings.

 

p.s. Just on side note, I did figure out that I can set "fan profiles" from MSI Bios. I did set one of my fans (the one above GPU) to "pick" temperature from PCH/Chipset instead of System and somehow that did improve cooling and noise a lot. I don't understand it but it works... 

[Zelenia]

Just little update. I did replace existing bitfenix fans with noctua's. I just did notice one of the case fans is some random 120mm fan from brand called "PinXun".

 

Store had installed up fan to "intake" and bottom and rear "exhaust".

 

Also the rear fan was actually 140mm and it was some random bitfenix fan (not spectre)... I didn't even know it was 140mm before I took it out. I had ordered 2x 120mm.  I'm just wondering now if one 120mm Noctua fan on rear (exhaust) be enough? I guess only way to find out is to test it.

 

/edit. Cooling seems to be about same level even with 120mm rear exhaust (i think RPMs are higher now). Sadly Noctua's can't fix this terrible GPU noise.  Overall noiselevel is same or higher but pitch is lower.

[Zelenia]

ok this is last update for this thingie.

 

it seems best way to reduce noise on this bitfenix prodigy M case is to invest on silent coolers. I did try with 2 intake fans on top and 1 outtake rear and 1 outtake bottom. that is enough to keep GPU temp in control (around 70 celcius when gaming which keeps the fans spinning less than 50%).

 

It's quite stupid though because the fans will cost me 90€ and for that 90€ I could've got just GPU with better cooling.

 

I still don't know what is this PinXun thing, Google doesn't now. 

[WoodenMarker]

On 1/20/2020 at 11:15 AM, Zelenia said:

p.s. Just on side note, I did figure out that I can set "fan profiles" from MSI Bios. I did set one of my fans (the one above GPU) to "pick" temperature from PCH/Chipset instead of System and somehow that did improve cooling and noise a lot. I don't understand it but it works... 

Fan curves determine the speed % for given temperature. If you want a quiet system, manually adjusting it to your liking is often necessary. Most 'quiet fans' can still be noisy without custom fan settings. 

On 1/25/2020 at 2:17 AM, Zelenia said:

I still don't know what is this PinXun thing, Google doesn't now. 

Photo?

[Zelenia]

19 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

Fan curves determine the speed % for given temperature. If you want a quiet system, manually adjusting it to your liking is often necessary. Most 'quiet fans' can still be noisy without custom fan settings. 

Photo?

Okay, well it was good to learn it this way. Now this desktop is nearly silent with 4 120mm Noctua fans and Noctua CPU cooler. I'll try some fan control program in Windows and see if any of them recognize this mbo.

 

. 

 

This is PinXun.  120mm case fan in 80€ BitFenix case. Terrible, terrible fan. I thought that case would have BitFenix Spectre or something in their case because they are cheap too but they did save even more money this way.

[RejZoR]

On 1/18/2020 at 5:50 PM, Tristerin said:

Yup!  Sone is the measurement used for this I learned about while getting in touch with my need for to many fans going in a rig.  

 

Arctic P12's have the most pleasant to my ears tone at max speed.

Sone is such a weird unit and I think only used by Asians. Decibels (dB) are what we're generally most used and is basically a smooth scale from 0 to 100 in usual metric manner. anything below 20dB is considered as dead silent and anything at around 100 is considered deafening loud. I just hate companies that mark their product noise in "Bels". Like, 26 decibels is 2.6 Bels. I actually had to think hard what the hell this unit is when I realized it's decibels without the deci prefix and moved decimal point as a result. It was some hard drive specs sheet. Yeah...

 

I think main issue here is that case is microATX and he doesn't really have much options. I think it would be best to have top fans exhausting since heat is always raising and have rear and bottom fans set for intake. This way GPU will be getting fresh cold air right next to it, same for CPU and hot air will be exhausted at the top where it'll be concentrating the most. That's how I'd do. And then lower the fan speeds to something like 800-1000 RPM. That seems sufficient airflow with next to zero noise.

[Zelenia]

14 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Sone is such a weird unit and I think only used by Asians. Decibels (dB) are what we're generally most used and is basically a smooth scale from 0 to 100 in usual metric manner. anything below 20dB is considered as dead silent and anything at around 100 is considered deafening loud. I just hate companies that mark their product noise in "Bels". Like, 26 decibels is 2.6 Bels. I actually had to think hard what the hell this unit is when I realized it's decibels without the deci prefix and moved decimal point as a result. It was some hard drive specs sheet. Yeah...

 

I think main issue here is that case is microATX and he doesn't really have much options. I think it would be best to have top fans exhausting since heat is always raising and have rear and bottom fans set for intake. This way GPU will be getting fresh cold air right next to it, same for CPU and hot air will be exhausted at the top where it'll be concentrating the most. That's how I'd do. And then lower the fan speeds to something like 800-1000 RPM. That seems sufficient airflow with next to zero noise.

I guess 2.6 Bels sounds way cooler than 26 decibels.  Bit weird tho, I haven't heard a noisy hard drive in years... SSDs have spoiled me big time. 

 

Yeah, main issue is the case and pretty much everything inside it. I got fans installed for "reverted cooling" at the moment (2 top intake, 1 rear exhaust, 1 bottom exhaust). Sadly this noise thing has became an obsession to me and during my free time I spend way too many hours adjusting fan speeds, opening and closing the case etc. Noctua fan's didn't fix this issue but they made things bearable (no echo or rattle). I'm not experienced enough to buy and install water cooling of any sort.

 

And yeah all I really wanted was just to enjoy new pc.

 

 

 

[RejZoR]

3 hours ago, Zelenia said:

I guess 2.6 Bels sounds way cooler than 26 decibels.  Bit weird tho, I haven't heard a noisy hard drive in years... SSDs have spoiled me big time. 

 

Yeah, main issue is the case and pretty much everything inside it. I got fans installed for "reverted cooling" at the moment (2 top intake, 1 rear exhaust, 1 bottom exhaust). Sadly this noise thing has became an obsession to me and during my free time I spend way too many hours adjusting fan speeds, opening and closing the case etc. Noctua fan's didn't fix this issue but they made things bearable (no echo or rattle). I'm not experienced enough to buy and install water cooling of any sort.

 

And yeah all I really wanted was just to enjoy new pc.

 

 

 

I've had 2TB SSD for few years and had to buy 8TB HDD and wanted absolute silence. One of most difficult part searches since noise is very subjective. But I found a 5400 RPM 8TB HDD that's pretty much absolutely silent even when under heavy random access load.

 

Best way doing the cooling is buying cheap fan hub(s) from eBay or AliExpress and using BIOS fan curves to dictate fan RPM. So it's nice and silent in idle where fans can run at their absolute lowest level and they slowly go up when system is under load. I have it set in such a way that CPU fan speed is dictated by CPU temperature where case fans are dictated by SYS temperature which usually rises slowly and fluctutates less. This setup has worked really well for me for years and my system isn't exactly power efficient. It depends if your motherboard supports such fan control tho.

 

Also I suggest you reverse the fans. Right now they have to fight natural heat convection. Having exhaust on top and feeding cold air from bottom and sides will actually accelerate heat dissipation at lower speeds.

[Zelenia]

Just a little update to this thing... I got super annoyed by the noise again because I did want to play games with high/ultra instead of medium. 

 

So I did decide to finally try to swap the fans around to see what happens.

 

I got the case they're testing in this video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9IErDKnmF0

 

Here is shortcut to test results:

 

I had before "2 upper intake, 1 rear exhale and 1 bottom exhale" setup which resulted me to have GPU sitting around 78-83 celcius when gaming.

 

Now with "2 upper exhale, 1 rear exhale, 1 bottom intake" I got 82-83 celcius about 10 min in to the game and GPU fans ramp up quite fast above 60% which makes it unbearable for me. After 30 min the temperature started to climb closer to 85 celcius.

 

Well it was worth a try but I think it's not working sadly. I'll try to do a switcheroo tomorrow again. Maybe I'll move one of the top fans to bottom.

 

The funniest thing here is that even if I did put my GPU fans to run 100% speed the temperatures don't really get lower.

 

So I don't really know what is going on.

[WoodenMarker]

10 hours ago, Zelenia said:

The funniest thing here is that even if I did put my GPU fans to run 100% speed the temperatures don't really get lower.

The card could just be boosting more with the thermal headroom. Have you checked to see if clocks speeds are any higher with the change in fan speed?

What rpm are the case fans running at?