Can someone explain to me the electricity in US vs in EU ?

[Enochian]

Hi All, 

So it may sound like a silly question but i was never to good in the electricity department. 
Say i'm based in EU, i have 230V outlets, in the US you have 120V. 
Are pc components like gpus or psus specially adapted, depending on region ? 
I saw that some PSU can work on both 230v and 120v range. Is that always the case? 

If I would move my pc to the US now, would it work the same way? Why this difference in the first place?

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, Enochian said:

Are pc components like gpus

You don't plug a GPU directly to the wall, so no.

 

1 minute ago, Enochian said:

or psus

Most modern PSUs can either work as-is both in the EU and in the US, or they have a flip on them to select the input-voltage. Simply check your PSU's manual for specs.

[minibois]

PC components don't use 230 or 120v, they typically use 12v while some PC components (not many nowadays) may use 5v.

Basically your PSU takes power from the wall and converts it into power your PC components want.

 

That means if your PSU can take 120 and 230v, your PC will work in either place.

Do check if it either just supports it or if there is a switch. In either case you would need to get a new C13 cable.

 

I am not someone that knows much about electricity, so I'm not sure why some parts of the world use different mains voltage than others.

[WereCatf]

2 minutes ago, minibois said:

I am not someone that knows much about electricity, so I'm not sure why some parts of the world use different mains voltage than others

If my memory serves, it's just simply the fact that electricity arrived to Europe some years later than they started using it in the US and Europeans figured out that using a higher voltage means there will be fewer losses in the cabling and thus the efficiency is higher, so they just simply decided to go with the better efficiency.

[Mira Yurizaki]

13 minutes ago, Enochian said:

Are pc components like gpus or psus specially adapted, depending on region ? 

PSUs turn the AC power from the wall into DC power. Practically every electronics these days ultimately use DC power, and the DC power is standardized.

 

Quote

I saw that some PSU can work on both 230v and 120v range. Is that always the case? 

Yes and no. Check the label on the PSU to see which voltage it's good for. Also, if there's a red switch near the plug input, make sure to set it correctly before turning the computer on.

Quote

If I would move my pc to the US now, would it work the same way?

You'd have to find either an adapter from your home country to the US's, or buy a US based cable. The plug that's on the PSU end is an IEC connector if you need a keyword to look up.

Quote

Why this difference in the first place?

The US standardized an AC system first, but it was made to match the common DC transmission voltage at the time, which was 110V. In Europe, some company decided to double as this was the voltage of some light being used. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity#History

 

EDIT: The main reason to use a higher voltage though is that it requires less electric current (amps) to deliver the same amount of power, as power is voltage multiplied by amperage. Higher amperage causes conductors to heat up.

[WereCatf]

2 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

The US standardized an AC system first, but it was made to match the common DC transmission voltage at the time, which was 110V. In Europe, some company decided to double as this was the voltage of some light being used. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity#History

Apparently my memory didn't quite serve.

[Spotty]

6 minutes ago, Enochian said:

Are pc components like gpus or psus specially adapted, depending on region ? 

I saw that some PSU can work on both 230v and 120v range. Is that always the case? 

If I would move my pc to the US now, would it work the same way? Why this difference in the first place?

Only the power supply. The rest of the components receive their power from the power supply as DC 12V, 5V, or 3.3V generated by the power supply.

 

No. Some power supplies will only work with 230V AC mains. 230V AC is 'easier' on the power supply as higher voltage requires lower current so 230V only power supplies might have used cheaper parts on the input side that aren't capable of handling the more demanding lower input voltage. Check the label on your power supply and it will tell you if it's full range (100-240V) or if it is 230V only.

So you know what to look for, here's some examples of the labels on full range (100-240V) and 230V only (200-240V).

 

 

You would need a different power cable to the wall as US and Europe use different wall sockets. The socket on the PSU side is standard so finding a replacement cable with the appropriate plug on the wall end is fairly easy. You will need to make sure your power supply supports 115V AC mains (check label as above). If it doesn't support 115V then you'll be buying a new power supply.

 

3 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

Most modern PSUs can either work as-is both in the EU and in the US, or they have a flip on them to select the input-voltage. Simply check your PSU's manual for specs.

 

10 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Check the label on the PSU to see which voltage it's good for. Also, if there's a red switch near the plug input, make sure to set it correctly before turning the computer on.

Only really crappy power supplies without PFC will have the voltage switch at the back of the PSU. Those power supplies should not have been used in the past 15 years, and you can't buy them in Europe (EU) anyway due to regulations requiring PFC.

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Only really crappy power supplies without PFC will have the voltage switch at the back of the PSU. Those power supplies should not have been used in the past 15 years, and you can't buy them in Europe (EU) anyway due to regulations requiring PFC.

Passive PFC based power supplies also have the switch.

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

Only really crappy power supplies without PFC will have the voltage switch at the back of the PSU. Those power supplies should not have been used in the past 15 years, and you can't buy them in Europe (EU) anyway due to regulations requiring PFC.

They didn't all magically just disappear into thin air when those regulations were put into effect. Since OP didn't mention anything about their PSU or how old it is, I do not feel it was wrong of me to mention the flip-switch.

[Jumballi]

If you’re unsure and are unable to check, just swap your power supply with one from the us. Everything is the same past the psu.

[akio123008]

32 minutes ago, yaboistar said:

also, the UK's mains voltage is said to be 230V in compliance with the rest of europe - you go test it though and you'll find out it's often 240V

It appears to be the other way round;

Right now it's about 237V over here, which is closer to 240 than to 230.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Enochian said:

Hi All, 

So it may sound like a silly question but i was never to good in the electricity department. 
Say i'm based in EU, i have 230V outlets, in the US you have 120V. 
Are pc components like gpus or psus specially adapted, depending on region ? 
I saw that some PSU can work on both 230v and 120v range. Is that always the case? 

If I would move my pc to the US now, would it work the same way? Why this difference in the first place?

It happened because it was developed here.  There was DC house power before there was AC, so there was an adaptation of the old tech to save money.  It dint move to Europe till it was better worked out.  The result is Europe generally has a superior system.  It’s a bit like broadcast television with PAL and NTSC.  PAL is better and newer.

USA most often has 1 or 2 “phases” of 110v set opposite each other. So one wire of 110 or two wires for 220.  Sometimes there are 3 or even 4 “true” phases set equidistant from each other.  This is only used for industry though.  One of the deals with electric cars is the a barrage EU power grid can deliver 3 phase power more easily so there is additional value to electric cars there because they can charge faster.  Britian also has a fuse in every plug instead of a rack of them on the other ends of house wiring which is why british plugs are large and US plugs are small.  There’s a fuse in there.

[Sakkura]

1 hour ago, yaboistar said:

as another little tidbit, the USA is one of the few places in the world that uses 60Hz as the frequency for their electricity grid - most places use 50Hz

 

 

also, the UK's mains voltage is said to be 230V in compliance with the rest of europe - you go test it though and you'll find out it's often 240V

 

23 minutes ago, akio123008 said:

It appears to be the other way round;

Right now it's about 237V over here, which is closer to 240 than to 230.

What they did to align the 220V and 240V grids was to set the intended voltage at 230V, but allowing fairly wide deviation from that, so existing equipment wouldn't have to be replaced overnight.

[TomvanWijnen]

58 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Only really crappy power supplies without PFC will have the voltage switch at the back of the PSU. Those power supplies should not have been used in the past 15 years, and you can't buy them in Europe (EU) anyway due to regulations requiring PFC.

I have many PSUs with voltage switches, all of them less than 15 years old and some even less than 10. They are from an American company.

[Mira Yurizaki]

To add to what @Sakkura said, the voltage standard is a nominal voltage. It may be higher or lower depending on what's going on with the grid.

 

 

[Kisai]

7 hours ago, akio123008 said:

It appears to be the other way round;

Right now it's about 237V over here, which is closer to 240 than to 230.

You're not going to get exactly 240V just like you never get exactly 120 in US/CA. In fact US/CA may actually bounce between 110 and 125 on the exact same outlet. It depends what else is on that phase in the house.

 

As for the reason for 50hz or 60hz, it was basically down to "this flickers", and we're lucky that there's not more standards like 133hz and 24hz.

 

AC in North America is generally wired as 120v two-phase outlets from a 240v three phase, so half the outlets will be on one phase, and the other half on the other phase. Despite that, 240V can be found in NA houses, though usually only at the kitchen/laundry appliance outlets.

 

 

 

[Mihle]

And in all of Europe except older electricity network in Norway, you can get 400v three phase in to the house, but you get one phase and neutral in all sockets but different sockets is on different phase. Some places like UK, often that split happens out in the street somewhere.

[akio123008]

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

You're not going to get exactly 240V just like you never get exactly 120 in US/CA. 

I'm perfectly aware of that, I just wanted to point out that the mainland voltage appears to be closer to 240 than to 230V on outlets that I have measured. 

 

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

AC in North America is generally wired as 120v two-phase outlets from a 240v three phase, so half the outlets will be on one phase, and the other half on the other phase. Despite that, 240V can be found in NA houses, though usually only at the kitchen/laundry appliance outlets.

Yes, but that's 240V between two phases, whereas in Europe a buidling gets all three phases with each phase being 240V and the voltage between them being about 415V. Most outlets are single phase 240V, but for heavy machinery three phase 415V outlets are used. These outlets aren't installed in most regular houses, but they could be if needed.

[Bombastinator]

22 minutes ago, akio123008 said:

I'm perfectly aware of that, I just wanted to point out that the mainland voltage appears to be closer to 240 than to 230V on outlets that I have measured. 

 

Yes, but that's 240V between two phases, whereas in Europe a buidling gets all three phases with each phase being 240V and the voltage between them being about 415V. Most outlets are single phase 240V, but for heavy machinery three phase 415V outlets are used. These outlets aren't installed in most regular houses, but they could be if needed.

Not in the US. frequently.  It’s the power lines.  They carry just the two “phases” (because people have complained that even though they’re separate wires out of phase drone each other the term “phase” is more specific)

 

Lets get back to the original questions instead of complaining about how primitive the US electrical grid is.

 

Are PSUs adaptive?  Yes. Mostly.

 

Are other components?  No.  They all run off the PSU, which is what does the AC->DC conversion.

 Sub question: Can I run a desktop off that old 2 pronged connector? 
Not without modification of the outlet.  Particulars of such discussed above.

 

Would your PC work? Probably, depending on the particulars of its PSU.

 

Why is this a thing?  History and politics.

[mariushm]

11 hours ago, yaboistar said:

as another little tidbit, the USA is one of the few places in the world that uses 60Hz as the frequency for their electricity grid - most places use 50Hz

Most countries that used 110v used 60 Hz. It's not just the US.

Some countries like Japan for example, can have both 50 Hz and 60 Hz and 100v or 110v ... it's because some regions imported generators made in US.

 

11 hours ago, yaboistar said:

 

also, the UK's mains voltage is said to be 230V in compliance with the rest of europe - you go test it though and you'll find out it's often 240V

EU countries had voltages like 220v , 230v and 240v.  Some years ago, everyone got together and standardized on 230v +/- 10% or something like that (could be +10% , -5%, don't care enough to research now and it's not that important)

It's to make it easier to reuse transformers and equipment between various EU countries and simplify electronic equipment.

So basically 240v is still within that 230v +/-10% and the power stations din't bother to adjust the output to 230v (maybe the design doesn't even allow that)

[akio123008]

43 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Not in the US. frequently.  It’s the power lines.  They carry just the two “phases” (because people have complained that even though they’re separate wires out of phase drone each other the term “phase” is more specific)

 

Lets get back to the original questions instead of complaining about how primitive the US electrical grid is.

haha I'm sorry, can't help it. I'm kind of a power grid geek.

[Intergalacticbits]

Wow I've never been to UK before so I didn't know they had super big plugs with fuses and no circuit breakers.  That is so weird for me lol.  I'd be freaking out if I ever went there .  I've heard people though who go on vacation talking about buying travel adapter kits.

 

I wonder if someday the US will switch over to the way people do electricity across the ocean?  I was told we started out different on cell phones and credit cards but eventually ended up doing those the way it was done over there.

 

I like to imagine the world with a giant manmade ring around it.  That delivers the fastest TV and internet to the world.  Plus all the world using the same standards for everything.  It would be wild to have one big world wide internet provider with one big world wide electric provider too.  That would be so science fiction cool for me.

[Bombastinator]

24 minutes ago, Intergalacticbits said:

Wow I've never been to UK before so I didn't know they had super big plugs with fuses and no circuit breakers.  That is so weird for me lol.  I'd be freaking out if I ever went there .  I've heard people though who go on vacation talking about buying travel adapter kits.

 

I wonder if someday the US will switch over to the way people do electricity across the ocean?  I was told we started out different on cell phones and credit cards but eventually ended up doing those the way it was done over there.

 

I like to imagine the world with a giant manmade ring around it.  That delivers the fastest TV and internet to the world.  Plus all the world using the same standards for everything.  It would be wild to have one big world wide internet provider with one big world wide electric provider too.  That would be so science fiction cool for me.

They might also have circuit breakers.  I’m not sure one way or the other about that one.  The Comes up here because I’m Britian power strips aren’t needed but replacing power cords happens.  big plugs with fuses in them is a thing though.  They also have some odd and fairly old fashioned wet area security too.  Lights in bathrooms and kitchens are on non-metallic pull chains.  Or they used to be

[Bombastinator]

25 minutes ago, Intergalacticbits said:

Wow I've never been to UK before so I didn't know they had super big plugs with fuses and no circuit breakers.  That is so weird for me lol.  I'd be freaking out if I ever went there .  I've heard people though who go on vacation talking about buying travel adapter kits.

 

I wonder if someday the US will switch over to the way people do electricity across the ocean?  I was told we started out different on cell phones and credit cards but eventually ended up doing those the way it was done over there.

 

I like to imagine the world with a giant manmade ring around it.  That delivers the fastest TV and internet to the world.  Plus all the world using the same standards for everything.  It would be wild to have one big world wide internet provider with one big world wide electric provider too.  That would be so science fiction cool for me.

With cell phones it was a bit more the other way around. A little anyway.  the US developed the first systems in the 1960’s but AT&T wouldn’t touch them.  GSM came out of the EU, and was so very clearly superior the GOP gave up its protection of AT&T and it was immediately cut up.  Instead of just posting GSM though, Three different systems were used: TDMA, CDMA, and GSM.  TDMA died quickly, and it’s proponent (the new much smaller ATT) switches to CDMA.  CDMA tech mixed with GSM bred LTE, and GSM and CDMA systems picked it up.   LTE spread world wide.  LTE was iirc (and this might not be c) was first used by CDMA carriers because GSM had a (very slow) data system and they didn’t. It was needed to compete with GSM.  We’re talking months though.  It was on the drawing boards in both the EU and the USA before it got released anywhere.

[mariushm]

The UK has fuses in the plugs, because of how the house wiring was made in the past.

After World War 2 , because there was a shortage of metals (copper and aluminum), instead of pulling wires to each outlet from a central point (the electric panel), in lots of houses they used a single set of wires and route it through several rooms connecting multiple outlets to same set of wires, to save on metal.

So, if a device were to fail and cause a short circuit or something, the fault could cause other devices in the outlets connected to same set of wires to be damaged. So the fuse in each plug is a sort of safety measure ... trip and disconnect device to prevent the wire in the walls from being damaged or to prevent other devices from being affected.

In regular star wiring (where each outlet has wires coming from electric panel) there's a fuse for the outlet in the electrical panel.

Sometimes, the lights in several rooms are connected to one phase with a single fuse, sometimes 1-2 rooms hae outlets on same phase, usually the outlets near the bathroom or kitchen are on separate fuses (because in kitchen you may use higher power devices like electric ovens and because near bathroom you have humidity and higher risk of electric shocks)

 

This being said, the UK plugs are quite nice and have lots of nice features (can only plug them one way, earthing pin connects first, the live and neutral wires inside the plug are shorter so break first if cable is pulled out, leaving earth wire protecting user etc etc) the only downside is that they're kinda big... and they tend to fall with the pins up, and hurt a lot if you step on them.