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Why Linus still has good things to say about Apple products

On 1/3/2020 at 1:34 AM, Arika S said:

Well, he doesn't have to. Its not pertinent to his job. Nor would it make a difference if he did. Judge a product on its own merits, if you're comparing it to something else to show "well x does it too" your not improving the image of one company, you're pulling down both.

 

There's been numerous times that he's given his opinion on other laptop makers, hell he's blasted lenovo and they are had s favourite company.

 

And yes, he doesn't deal with other manufacture repairs because to him they are not profitable. Doesn't matter why, they just aren't.

 

Bias can be good as long as you balance it out with bias in the other side and numerous non bias reviews, then come up with your own conclusion.

 

I see a lot of people discredit rossman because he's anti apple and therefore ignore his opinion, which is stupid.

I'm going to copy paste something I said from a previous thread because I think it fits with this discussion

 

  Reveal hidden contents

so you're saying i can just completely disregard peoples opinions here on this forum because it's known that they hate the product they talk about?

 

the amount of

  • anti-Microsoft
  • anti-Intel
  • anti-NVidia

posts on this forum absolutely dwarf the anti-Apple ones.

 

The people i tend to disagree with most on the above topics would be @LAwLz @Delicieuxz and @jagdtigger. does that mean i should disregard their opinions? Absolutely not. there have been a number of things that i have changed my mind on because of the opinions of these 3, i still have disagreements but you need that, nothing is worse than an echo chamber. your own bias's can cloud your judgement, so you need people with opposing opinions to offset that.

 

People have the right to be upset with Apple, in fact it's generally the people that are the harshest that you should listen to, because 9 times out of 10 they actually have a legitimate reason for their "disdain" as you put it.

 

my Tech Philosophy has always been "judge the product, not the company". i Dislike Apple, i don't like their business practices, but i still bought an iPad like a month ago because it was better than the Android alternatives. you don't have to boycot an entire company's products just because you don't like them, especially if they offer something you want/need.

 

As for Louis, he repairs these things everyday, he makes a living repairing them, so hes in a better position to criticize how they are made than most people. most people don't care how much it costs to repair their PC if it means a lot to them, Apple just makes it unnecessarily hard to repair.

Infact, here's the thread that spawned this comment, its about apple and rossman too

 

 

 

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You're singling him out just because they don't know the issues other laptops have? That doesn't matter, he doesn't repair anything but Apple laptops. By going "but other laptops have problems" you're clearly grabbing at straws.

And both of you of just convinently ignored the part I gave justification for why Rossmann needs to know about other laptops. Apple has a HUGE marketshare, compared to everyone else. Among millions and millions of perfectely fine MacBooks that EXIST in the wild, few of them, let's say at worst ten thousand end up in repairshops like Rossmann after the customers were denied of the official free first party repair by Apple. That is about 0.01% of faliure rates. And here, we are ignoring user caused damages like liquid damage and devices that were dropped out of the balcony, which if we're being honest is the number one reason why Apple denies service in the first place.

 

Lenovo, Dell and HP have a millions of laptops, so it's very difficult to know the faliure rates of each model and is also not profitable, to just specialize in one of these comapanies just because of the vast variety of products are relatively less market share. Microsoft and Razer are the two companies that have a stremalines selection of products, but the faliure rates in those devices and laughable to the point where it's a known fact and nobody cares anymore (most of LMG staff's razer Blades are dead after 3 years and Microsoft is well known for their unresolved software issues that continue to plague their products)

 

So yes, basic statsiscs show how profitable Apple repair business is, just because of the sheer number of devices. And couple that with the fact that Apple just tend to replace the entire logic board instead of replacing one capacitor means it's pratcially and untapped goldmine for these people, as Apple is forced, by themselves to charge a lot for repairs.

 

So yes, if Rossmann is going to critizie Apple, its only because he sees broken Apple machines and he needs to widen his view and just see how pathetic the rest of the industry is. Apple products have always been known to be extremely relaible outside of specific issues like butterfly keyboard, and that is still the general consesus. A repairman's rant about how one IC failed in proabably hundred cases out of million doesn't automatically imply that al MacBooks are dead on arrival.

 

On 1/3/2020 at 2:19 AM, Blademaster91 said:

Many reviewers that produce videos on Apple products are usually biased towards the positives of it and hardly ever mention any flaws with the product. However you can't claim my point is invalid unless you have proof Apple doesn't provide anyone with free hardware for review.

And who would that be? It's very well documented that everywhere online that Apple doesn't sample their devices for free to reviewers, while pretty much every other company is known to do. And if you're going to come up with a conspiracy theory that Apple has been secretly sponsering a lot of them for years and it's some sort of hidden cult, wake up, this is just a stupid dream of yours.

 

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General consensus for Apple's hardware is going to be great because people line up to buy it no matter what, they kept the awful butterfly keyboards for way too long, told people no no you're just using it wrong and you have to spray the keyboard with a can of air because these keyboards are flawless, and people still lined up for the latest laptop still using defective keyboards.

"Told people you're using it wrong". I'm sorry, when did Apple say that? Is this how blatantly ignorant you fanboys are. This one fact is enough to discredit everything you say because you clearly have a habit of taking things out of context (and in this case, a statement from 10 years ago about a completely different issue) to skew it into you're little pipedream.

 

Spray of compressed air solution. I don't see anything wrong with that. Yeah they designed a new keyboard, it turned out to not be great. But some people's issue was solved by the compressed air technique and that was more of a bandaid solution that they would later try to fix in the next model. What did you expect Apple to do? Immediately refresh the products the next day? Or later get logistics in place to fix it free for customers? Oh wait, shit, they did the latter. And do you not know the existance of the 16" in MBP that fixed the keyboard? 

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So you still need an app to easily transfer files, all you need with an android phone is a USB cable, or most phones usually have some kind of wireless sharing.

Omg, so you think AirDrop is an App. Bravo! You come into LTT forum like a fucking expert and don't even know the basic or seem to have ever used an Apple product in 5 years. it gives me an impression that you're just a 12 year old kid who can't afford an Apple product and just being salty about it.

 

No, Android phones have terrible wireless sharing, and for that you need an app. And apps like ShareIt do not ever reliably work well. Transffering with USB cable is fucking 2000s tech for Apple users, and USB file transfers are usually always over USB 2 which is extremely slow for today's standards.

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I also used to say I'd never own a single Apple product. I was almost borderline Apple hater. And now I own iPhone XR, Apple Watch 5 and AirPods 2. And I love all of them.

 

I ate my words after Google pissed me off with their privacy bollocks and how garbage Android is with updates and all sorts of inconsistencies, but primarily privacy reasons. And the experience is the exact opposite of shitty Android one. Sure it has few weird ones, but overall, the experience is amazing. Solid device in terms of performance and build. Makes awesome photos and with NeuralCam I can also make amazing night time shots even though I don't have iPhone 11. I actually hardly have any negatives to say about it.

 

I also used to say smart watches are rather pointless. But now I have Apple Watch 5 for few months (basically since day 1 release) and I love it. I'm not a heavy call or Siri user yet I love it for tiny little things it does for me. Like tell time, obviously, to other little things like ability to silence my ringing iPhone by covering the watch with my hand and it silences it. I also regularly use SoundHound to find music with it and it's way quicker than taking out phone which is super nice. To all the notifications at home that I get even though my phone is several meters away in some other room. And primary reason was actually heart rate monitoring and warnings as well as fall detection. Not that I'm a high risk person, but you feel a bit better knowing it might save your life at some point.

 

And lastly, AirPods. I already knew they have good sound quality with really nice bass from EarPods that came with XR. And I needed wireless earphones without silicone crap because I just can't stand it inside my ear. I'm actually using them the most with my Windows 10 laptop. Excellent wireless earphones. Super comfy, excellent sound, they last super long, charge fast and the carry/charge case is such an amazing piece to handle. Apple really knows how to do tiny details like that snapping magnetic lid.

 

And when i was buying all 3 devices I bought them with idea that "shit happens". I'll use them for as long as they last, the longer, the better, but if something dies, I won't cry after them and whine on forums. Things just don't really break for me so I'm not even buying things with worry they'll break or die. And if they do, I'm not really that pissy about.

 

So yeah, from Apple hater to Apple fan almost. The experience is something else that I haven't had with any Android device. Xiaomi Mi5 was nice, but it still reeked of Android nonsense and Google's fuckery. Nothing from Apple feels anything like that.

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X | ASUS Strix X570-E | G.Skill 32GB 3600MHz CL16 | AORUS GTX 1080Ti | Samsung 850 Pro 2TB | Seagate Barracuda 8TB | Sound Blaster AE-9 MUSES

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14 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

 

His sample size is entirely made of broken devices. So I watch some of his educational videos "how-to-fix-this-part", and leave the ranting aside.

 

Many of his videos ranting are about things that a sample size has no impact on.  And if it does we would have to find out if he didn't account for confirmation bias before arguing his claims are flawed.

 

 

 

Also to those blindly begging on behalf of apple.  please, you are insulting the intelligence of everyone here.  Sure some need to be told, but not by those who are just as wrong coming from the other side of the debate.

 

 

 

 

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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im not gonna read all that...

 

Can apple be annoying? Yes. Is their products really overpriced. Purposely expensive to repair? Absolutely, they want to run you dry.

 

Is their products simple, consistent and more bug free than their android counter part? Yes. Does it give you the freedom to download and do whatever you want to do with your device? no. 

 

 

They both have ups and downs. I don't like apple very much purely because of the costs. That may be because i'm a poor student and cant justify spending over half a grand for a phone. I also pirate ALOT of stuff, IOS doesn't like that. Android doesn't care. 

 

Really, if your on the wealthy side then id imagine youd like an Apple product more, problem is most people aren't so you really cant recommend them to the masses, yet they buy them anyway. It all comes down to $$$. 

 

Best example is the university i go to. All in debt students and they all have $2'000 Mac books and $800 Iphones thanks to loans. Half a semester. It hurts to watch. 

 

But in the end, they are successful. I'm not sure for how long though. The laptop and phone market aren't what they used to be a few years ago. Competition and quality has skyrocketed. somethings gotta give. 

 

Cheers

 

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1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

And both of you of just convinently ignored the part I gave justification for why Rossmann needs to know about other laptops. Apple has a HUGE marketshare, compared to everyone else. Among millions and millions of perfectely fine MacBooks that EXIST in the wild, few of them, let's say at worst ten thousand end up in repairshops like Rossmann after the customers were denied of the official free first party repair by Apple. That is about 0.01% of faliure rates. And here, we are ignoring user caused damages like liquid damage and devices that were dropped out of the balcony, which if we're being honest is the number one reason why Apple denies service in the first place.

 

Lenovo, Dell and HP have a millions of laptops, so it's very difficult to know the faliure rates of each model and is also not profitable, to just specialize in one of these comapanies just because of the vast variety of products are relatively less market share. Microsoft and Razer are the two companies that have a stremalines selection of products, but the faliure rates in those devices and laughable to the point where it's a known fact and nobody cares anymore (most of LMG staff's razer Blades are dead after 3 years and Microsoft is well known for their unresolved software issues that continue to plague their products)

They have a HUGE marketshare compared to everyone else? Well, if you took a minute to Google/Bing/DuckDuckGo it while you're blindly defending Apple, you'd know their marketshare isn't anything compared to Lenovo,Dell or HP. Apple laptop and desktop marketshare is more like 7-8% and from a source biased towards Apple. https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/10/10/mac-shipments-grow-slightly-but-apple-pc-market-share-shrinks

If a user paid for the warranty service then no it shouldn't matter whether they spilled their $10 cup of coffee on it or accidentally dropped it, and Apple doesn't count the service they turn away.  Besides, some of the service Apple does is laughably terrible like gluing a chunk of rubber onto a chip to force it down onto the PCB, or reflowing a motherboard too long so the whole thing gets burnt and will inevitably fail again. Or charging a customer for a new motherboard when all that went wrong was a display cable coming lose which really costs nothing to reconnect.

You're really grabbing at straws there since you keep bringing up Razer, all of their products are known for terrible quality control to the point people call them the Apple of PC hardware for overpriced and fancy looking crap at a price premium.  Linus criticized them for the laptops failing as well, they also criticize Microsoft where it's due.

And unless you have failure rates for them all, then no you can't compare them. But I don't see people just opening up specialized repair shops just for Dell PC's, because they aren't profitable enough with enough machines having hardware flaws, or getting refused first party repair, or parts are actually available for people to buy.

Although the failure rates of other machines still doesn't matter, because you're still going "but other machines fail too" without having an unbiased look at every product.

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

"Told people you're using it wrong". I'm sorry, when did Apple say that? Is this how blatantly ignorant you fanboys are. This one fact is enough to discredit everything you say because you clearly have a habit of taking things out of context (and in this case, a statement from 10 years ago about a completely different issue) to skew it into you're little pipedream.

 

Spray of compressed air solution. I don't see anything wrong with that. Yeah they designed a new keyboard, it turned out to not be great. But some people's issue was solved by the compressed air technique and that was more of a bandaid solution that they would later try to fix in the next model. What did you expect Apple to do? Immediately refresh the products the next day? Or later get logistics in place to fix it free for customers? Oh wait, shit, they did the latter. And do you not know the existance of the 16" in MBP that fixed the keyboard? 

By telling people "oh just spray it with canned air and it's fixed" without actually finding the issue is a shortsighted thing to do, and plenty of people criticized Apple for that when what they told everyone to do had nothing to do with the keyboards just being complete sh*t in the first place. It took consumers suing Apple for the keyboards to even get replaced,but with the same butterfly switch crap that just fails or will fail from the slightest amount of dust, none of those replacement those keyboards aren't any better unless users buy a new macbook with the scissor switches.

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

Omg, so you think AirDrop is an App. Bravo! You come into LTT forum like a fucking expert and don't even know the basic or seem to have ever used an Apple product in 5 years. it gives me an impression that you're just a 12 year old kid who can't afford an Apple product and just being salty about it.

 

No, Android phones have terrible wireless sharing, and for that you need an app. And apps like ShareIt do not ever reliably work well. Transffering with USB cable is fucking 2000s tech for Apple users, and USB file transfers are usually always over USB 2 which is extremely slow for today's standards.

At least I admitted I was wrong, you insisted file sharing on Android is impossibly difficult, and transferring with a cable is outdated? No, Android phones have a standardized USB-C port which has USB3.0/3.1 speeds, and really more secure than transferring over wifi or a network.

But I guess since using a cable is so "backwards" to Apple users that slow and outdated USB2.0 must not matter.

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On 1/4/2020 at 1:06 PM, Blademaster91 said:

They have a HUGE marketshare compared to everyone else? Well, if you took a minute to Google/Bing/DuckDuckGo it while you're blindly defending Apple, you'd know their marketshare isn't anything compared to Lenovo,Dell or HP. Apple laptop and desktop marketshare is more like 7-8% and from a source biased towards Apple. https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/10/10/mac-shipments-grow-slightly-but-apple-pc-market-share-shrinks

My goodness. Are you really this oblivious to fill in some gaps and derive stuff? Do i really need to hold your hand step by step and guide you? I said single SKUs. Samsung has a million phones with a million variations, while Apple has at most 5-10 phones from the past 5 years, ignoring storage and colour options. That's an anolgy, if you didnt understand

 

Dell and HP has a gazzilion laptops. Dell's XPS 13/15 is not even close to as popular as MacBook Pros. That's the entire fucking point. Opening up a dell workshop means you need to stock in parts for every single variant of their laptops which is physically just not possible. With Apple products, you can actually stock up and source spares and parts.

 

Strange Parts channel shows this clearly. It's extremely easy to source Apple parts, due to their narrow product line from places like china, while it's very difficult to find a no name dell or hp laptop part, or a a specific part for one of millions of mid range phones that samsung has.

 

What is wrong with you? You keep making same baseless arguments everywhere without any solid facts at all. Yes, my harsh reply is because I honestly don't have patience with people's stupidity

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If a user paid for the warranty service then no it shouldn't matter whether they spilled their $10 cup of coffee on it or accidentally dropped it, and Apple doesn't count the service they turn away. Besides, the some of the service Apple does is laughably terrible like gluing a chunk of rubber onto a chip to force it down onto the PCB, or reflowing a motherboard too long so the whole thing gets burnt and will inevitably fail again. Or charging a customer for a new motherboard when all that went wrong was a display cable coming lose which really costs nothing to reconnect.

Yeah, go ahead show me any other company who accepts accidental drop, or spill of coffee as warranty service. Please stop digging your hole deeper with some nonsense you pull out. Take your Android phone, break it's glass and try to claim your warranty? We'll see how far you go

 

Hmm, so you pull some random small naunces that Rossmann went haywire about, yet iof absolutely affects almost nobody. You don't know the design procedures taken by Apple. You don't know the reasoning behind why the did it in a certain way. And most definitely, you aren't aware about the similar kind of things in other laptops. For examples, asus makes great PC hardware (motherboard, graphic card, etc) but their laptops are the worst, with motherboards just randomly dying (and that's where these so called flaws need to depserately be fixed)

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You're really grabbing at straws there since you keep bringing up Razer, all of their products are known for terrible quality control to the point people call them the Apple of PC hardware for overpriced and fancy looking crap.  Linus criticized them for the laptops failing as well, they also criticize Microsoft where it's due.

People call them, you mean anti apple fanboys like you do call them . Apple has on of the highest if not the highest customer satsifaction in the entire fucking industry. Razer does not even come close (in fact probably has the biggest gap that's even possible, if they are indeed at the bottom of the barrel)

 

Linus gave a glowing review for the new blade. He didn't say anything about their faliure rates, apart from one video over a year ago and the in WAN show.

Microsoft isn't covered really well my LTT and their products are pretty much garbage apart from the Surface Laptop, which is overpriced and doesn't even have something as basic as TB3

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And unless you have failure rates for them all, then no you can't compare them. But I don't see people just opening up specialized repair shops just for Dell PC's, because they aren't profitable enough with enough machines having hardware flaws, or getting refused first party repair, or parts are actually available for people to buy.

Yeah try sourcing and stocking up donor motherboards for every single SKU of Dell laptops. Facepalm

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Although the failure rates of other machines still doesn't matter, because you're still going "but other machines fail too" without having an unbiased look at the product you're defending.

No, other machines are so much worse. If you expect Apple to be perfect you're delusional. Apple has earned it's name in the industry. That seems to be a fact that just doesnt go through your head. I dont care what you're smoking but the sun rises from east, not west and you can't change the fact that Apple has always topped in all categories, especially in customer satsifaction.

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By telling people oh just spray it with canned air and it's fixed is a shortsighted thing to do, and plenty of people criticized them for that when Apple told everyone to do had nothing to do with the keyboards just being complete sh*t in the first place. It took consumers suing Apple for the keyboards to even get replaced,but with the same butterfly switch crap that just fails or will fail from the slightest amount of dust, none of those replacement those keyboards aren't any better unless users buy a new macbook with the scissor switches.

Yeah, so all their repair programs had a lawsuit behing them. It just takes a vist to Apple's website to find out if they admitted any mistake and offering a completely free replacement even after years of production. No other company does it, and nobody else gives a shit about those companies. but because it's Apple, there seems to be people who waste their time online to propogand against them because they can't afford their products or they just never had the liberty to ever try one of their products. If that's the case, move on and dont spew nonsense about things you dont know. I along with so many others in forum, have used both Apple and their competition's products extensively before we drew these conclusion.

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At least I admitted I was wrong, you insisted file sharing on Android is impossibly difficult, and transferring with a cable is outdated? No, Android phones actually used a standardized USB-C port which has USB3.0/3.1 speeds, and really more secure than transferring over wifi or a network.

But I guess since using a cable is so "backwards" to Apple users that slow and outdated USB2.0 must not matter.

When did you admit wrong? Yes, file sharing on android is dumb and you have to rely on internet based services to relaiably do anything well. Apps like ShareIt and Xender are extrememly unreliable and is a multi step process. And YOU NEED THAT APP (you just shot your own argument here). And let's not even talk about the number of ads that makes these apps extremely frustrating to use.

 

Lol, did you just bring security over wired transfer as an argument? ?

FYI, it's all encrypted. The only way to intercept usable informartion is to get the decoded message from the source or the destination. And well turns out IOS also has much better security than android, but ofc we both know you were referring to intercepting the wireless transfer and made it evident that you don't seem to knoa anything about encryption also.

 

Apple bias, there's no hope for you kid. If you just can't accept that Airdrop is better than wired transfer or unrelaible app based transfer, then just stop wasting your time. You've already buried yourself

 

Also USB C does not automatically mean USB 3.0/3.1. The fact that you're on a PC hardware forum and you don't know that is quite embarrassing

 

And PS, iPads where USB C port matters more have USB 3.0 transfer speeds. Lightning, a 2012 tech, always had the pins required for USB 3 transfer speeds too (as evidenced by the first iPad Pro). My OnePlus 7T, a 2019 flagship supports only USB 2. So it's not as ubiquitous as you like to make it seem (because you know, you're a kind of fanboy and spread false information. You remind me Tesla shorts who keep spreading misinformation when Tesla stocks are at an all time high)

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Many straws are being clutched here :)

 

*Casually upgrading my 11 year old HP workstation whilst waiting for a specific graphics card to arrive just to test if a Mac works*

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2 hours ago, Wellingtonzed said:

im not gonna read all that...

 

Can apple be annoying? Yes. Is their products really overpriced. Purposely expensive to repair? Absolutely, they want to run you dry.

 

Cheers

 

That's debatable. If you look only at specs sheet and say iPhone XR is overpriced because it offers underwhelming chipset with only 6 cores, only has 3GB RAM and only 720p display when everyone has gazillion gigabytes of RAM, 16K displays and fuck ton of cores, then yes, you may think this way. But it'll soon be 1 year of me using iPhone after years of using Android exclusively, I don't share the same opinion. The experience is amazing and hardware is REALLY good in terms of actual usage and not just looking at specs. No Android ever ran so smoothly and received so many updates that appeared on my phone the moment they were announced. There was always some idiotic waiting and observing of what region you belong to and what vendor you have because Android for them comes with months of delays because they need to port all their junk and they sack support after 2 years pretty much guaranteed. For me, that alone is worth of Apple's phone for 800€. People may argue, but all this costs Apple money to provide such perfect unified support for devices for many years in such timely fashion. How much is again debatable, but the fact is, I've never had such good experience with software ecosystem on ANY Android device and I had several of them from different vendors in different classes from entry, mid to high end.

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X | ASUS Strix X570-E | G.Skill 32GB 3600MHz CL16 | AORUS GTX 1080Ti | Samsung 850 Pro 2TB | Seagate Barracuda 8TB | Sound Blaster AE-9 MUSES

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32 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

That's debatable. If you look only at specs sheet and say iPhone XR is overpriced because it offers underwhelming chipset with only 6 cores, only has 3GB RAM and only 720p display when everyone has gazillion gigabytes of RAM, 16K displays and fuck ton of cores, then yes, you may think this way. But it'll soon be 1 year of me using iPhone after years of using Android exclusively, I don't share the same opinion. The experience is amazing and hardware is REALLY good in terms of actual usage and not just looking at specs. No Android ever ran so smoothly and received so many updates that appeared on my phone the moment they were announced. There was always some idiotic waiting and observing of what region you belong to and what vendor you have because Android for them comes with months of delays because they need to port all their junk and they sack support after 2 years pretty much guaranteed. For me, that alone is worth of Apple's phone for 800€. People may argue, but all this costs Apple money to provide such perfect unified support for devices for many years in such timely fashion. How much is again debatable, but the fact is, I've never had such good experience with software ecosystem on ANY Android device and I had several of them from different vendors in different classes from entry, mid to high end.

Except if you actually plan on keeping a phone more than a year or two, you can't ignore the point they made on repair, Apple will either want to charge you a ton if you didn't pay up for the warranty,or convince you to buy the newest phone. Most people are going to line up for the newest iPhone anyway because Apple will show off some feature they claim is "new" despite Android having it already like a file manager or dual cameras.

And it's only debatable if you're excusing the pretty terrible specs for a phone that costs $800, the software experience is very subjective and neither OS is perfect so you traded Google's f*ckery for Apple's f*ckery. If i'm spending more than $300-400 on a phone of course the specs matter as much as how the phone feels to use,and i've never had an issue using an Android device, not sure what people do to them for it to seem like it isn't smooth unless you're loading the phone full of stuff and use Facebook.

When you pay for any expensive phone the software should come free with it, i'd really like to see proof that it isn't just the obvious Apple tax and part of the cost goes to software. Imagine buying a pre-built PC and they charge you the OS cost as an extra add on. And really, the average person don't care about updates because that stops them from what they're doing and requires them not being able to use the phone while it updates and restarts, most people just want to use their phone.

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1 hour ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Many straws are being clutched here :)

 

*Casually upgrading my 11 year old HP workstation whilst waiting for a specific graphics card to arrive just to test if a Mac works*

With no background information about anything whatsoever :)

 

It's pathetic how you try to gaslight non-techies with a comment that has zero background information. Your 11 year old workstation, has most likely DDR2 RAM, which you wont get too far with. Any graphic card upgrade will just be bottlenecked by the CPU, and is frankly a pathetic investment. SSD would just get bottlenecked by SATA2, but i guess it will be a minor performance bump over aging hard drive (even then I doubt the motherboard supports AHCI mode for booting). And if you're replacing the CPU means you're changing the motherboard which means you basically changed the computer. 

 

Pfft. So much for talking about straws

 

Also, Apple laptops and desktops from 11 years ago are upgradable too. And if we're talking about workstations, the Mac Pro is definitely upgradable.

 

So, as I said gaslighting. I won't say everyone, but most people here, and that includes me, know a lot about computer hardware since we follow the parent company LTT here for a number of years. So wrong forum, buddy. Try Reddit or something.

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18 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

With no background information about anything whatsoever :)

 

It's pathetic how you try to gaslight non-techies with a comment that has zero background information. Your 11 year old workstation, has most likely DDR2 RAM, which you wont get too far with. Any graphic card upgrade will just be bottlenecked by the CPU, and is frankly a pathetic investment. SSD would just get bottlenecked by SATA2, but i guess it will be a minor performance bump over aging hard drive. And if you're replacing the CPU means you're changing the motherboard which means you basically changed the computer. 

 

Also, Apple laptops and desktops from 11 years ago are upgradable too. And if we're talking about workstations, the Mac Pro is definitely upgradable.

 

So, as I said gaslighting. Wrong forum, buddy.

Dual Xeon with DDR3 and CPU performance just ahead of an i7 7700. For all you know I have an NVME drive. By the way, this workstation (and the other one I got with it) cost about the same as the graphics card that I need just to get this Power Mac to boot.

 

In games my GTX1050 is maxed out and the CPU's clock back to about 1.5GHZ at 15-20% usage. I'd say there's some room there for a huge GPU upgrade.

 

You can continue to make assumptions about my "pathetic investment" that cost the same as a bucket of KFC chicken, but they will probably continue to be wrong ;)

 

I shall add that I bought a Power Mac because the design is awesome and I like older Apple hardware. It's useless to me but I like them. It can go in the collection with a G3 iMac Indigo, 2011 (I think it is) Intel iMac (with a fucked display), iPhone 3G, iPod classic (with a failed DAC) and what's left of my iPod mini. I'm also sourcing parts to upgrade a Core Duo Macbook as that tank still works, just really slowly.

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1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

Except if you actually plan on keeping a phone more than a year or two, you can't ignore the point they made on repair, Apple will either want to charge you a ton if you didn't pay up for the warranty,or convince you to buy the newest phone. Most people are going to line up for the newest iPhone anyway because Apple will show off some feature they claim is "new" despite Android having it already like a file manager or dual cameras.

And it's only debatable if you're excusing the pretty terrible specs for a phone that costs $800, the software experience is very subjective and neither OS is perfect so you traded Google's f*ckery for Apple's f*ckery. If i'm spending more than $300-400 on a phone of course the specs matter as much as how the phone feels to use,and i've never had an issue using an Android device, not sure what people do to them for it to seem like it isn't smooth unless you're loading the phone full of stuff and use Facebook.

When you pay for any expensive phone the software should come free with it, i'd really like to see proof that it isn't just the obvious Apple tax and part of the cost goes to software. Imagine buying a pre-built PC and they charge you the OS cost as an extra add on. And really, the average person don't care about updates because that stops them from what they're doing and requires them not being able to use the phone while it updates and restarts, most people just want to use their phone.

What's the point in repairing a phone whose support ended ages ago because they basically have zero support? Those updates that do come are more like "we're doing something" than anyone actually giving a F. I'd rather pay another 800€ for "subpar" specs on paper iPhone than ever again deal with dumb Android. Then think whatever you want from that. All Androids are are specs on paper and measurement of who has a longer male organ. In terms of actual usage, they are terrible from cheap ones to most expensive ones. I've been on android for 9 years or so. It's unlikely I'll be returning to it ever again. You can wonder why all you want.

 

Also, the OS is charged extra on PC's. It's called OEM Windows license. It's cheaper and it basically lives and dies with that device.

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X | ASUS Strix X570-E | G.Skill 32GB 3600MHz CL16 | AORUS GTX 1080Ti | Samsung 850 Pro 2TB | Seagate Barracuda 8TB | Sound Blaster AE-9 MUSES

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1 hour ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Dual Xeon with DDR3 and CPU performance just ahead of an i7 7700. For all you know I have an NVME drive. By the way, this workstation (and the other one I got with it) cost about the same as the graphics card that I need just to get this Power Mac to boot.

 

In games my GTX1050 is maxed out and the CPU's clock back to about 1.5GHZ at 15-20% usage. I'd say there's some room there for a huge GPU upgrade.

 

You can continue to make assumptions about my "pathetic investment" that cost the same as a bucket of KFC chicken, but they will probably continue to be wrong ;)

 

I shall add that I bought a Power Mac because the design is awesome and I like older Apple hardware. It's useless to me but I like them. It can go in the collection with a G3 iMac Indigo, 2011 (I think it is) Intel iMac (with a fucked display), iPhone 3G, iPod classic (with a failed DAC) and what's left of my iPod mini. I'm also sourcing parts to upgrade a Core Duo Macbook as that tank still works, just really slowly.

Dual Xeon from 2009 that's ahead of i7 7700? Maybe in heavily multi threaded tasks, but I highly doubt it is in single threaded tasks.

Yeah except I dont think you can boot from an PCIe NVMe drive in older motherboards since the BIOS wouldn't support it. So you're pretty much lying at this point.

 

And I fairly sure the those 2009 dual Xeons definitly causes a bottleneck with GTX 1050. CPU bottleneck cannot directly be determined from windows task manager, fyi. Also 15%-20% usage running at 1.5 Ghz is suspiciously low while running a game.

 

Also, none of this could be true and you just wanted to comment something to paint the picture in your way ?

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42 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Dual Xeon from 2009 that's ahead of i7 7700? Maybe in heavily multi threaded tasks, but I highly doubt it is in single threaded tasks.

Yeah except I dont think you can boot from an PCIe NVMe drive in older motherboards since the BIOS wouldn't support it. So you're pretty much lying at this point.

 

And I fairly sure the those 2009 dual Xeons definitly causes a bottleneck with GTX 1050. CPU bottleneck cannot directly be determined from windows task manager, fyi. Also 15%-20% usage running at 1.5 Ghz is suspiciously low while running a game.

 

Also, none of this could be true and you just wanted to comment something to paint the picture in your way ?

You're right, but for my use a KFC priced machine with 12 cores and 24 threads is much preferable to single thread performance. I will however for the hell of it run Cinebench single thread and see where it stacks up. Probably dogshit if I'm honest.

 

Never said I have NVME, although there are a few drives that have a BIOS to allow them to boot on older boards. I'll be using one when I find one. I use a SATA3 add-in card so no SATA2 bottleneck.

 

You don't know what games I play, could be HL2 for all you know. I'd say the GPU at 100% utilisation pushing 300 FPS is not being bottlenecked by the CPU. In something more modern and demanding, again the GPU is maxed out whilst the CPU's never break a sweat. To be fair to you though, my machine has been on balanced power mode. On high performance it boosts to 3.3 GHz and stays there but still with low usage.

 

All this is irrelevant though as the point was I can jam in any hardware that fits, but with my Apple machines, half the hardware is "custom" for no reason other than making sure Apple are the only ones that can supply parts.

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Quote

Never said I have NVME, although there are a few drives that have a BIOS to allow them to boot on older boards. I'll be using one when I find one. I use a SATA3 add-in card so no SATA2 bottleneck.

 

8 hours ago, Curious Pineapple said:

For all you know I have an NVME drive

Okay.

 

Quote

You don't know what games I play, could be HL2 for all you know. I'd say the GPU at 100% utilisation pushing 300 FPS is not being bottlenecked by the CPU. In something more modern and demanding, again the GPU is maxed out whilst the CPU's never break a sweat. To be fair to you though, my machine has been on balanced power mode. On high performance it boosts to 3.3 GHz and stays there but still with low usage.

So are you saying you can't play these games like HL2 on an older mac? Or with bootcamp, in case the game isnt available for mac?

Quote

All this is irrelevant though as the point was I can jam in any hardware that fits, but with my Apple machines, half the hardware is "custom" for no reason other than making sure Apple are the only ones that can supply parts.

And again you seem to be not aware of the existance of the Mac Pro which has PCIe add in cards. Also modern macs also have thunderbolt 3 support for expansions. The only potential issues are the unavailability of drivers, but you can of course get those with bootcamp. 

 

So again, your pointing out something that makes no sense apart from creating a false illusion.

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2 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

snip

I said for all you know, that's 2 assumptions you've made regarding my drives. By the way, I can boot any NVMe drive using Clover, just as I'll be using it to boot Catalina on a machine without UEFI....

 

I never said you can't play games on a Mac, I've used the frigging things for years, and I'm building a hackintosh now. I have Steam and games installed on my iMac....

 

I know that the Pro exists, you are missing my point that Apple like to lock down hardware only to restrict where you can buy it from. My Power Mac has a standard AGP connector, can I put an X700 in it? Can I balls.

 

If you could give me some hints on how to get Disk Utility to simply format a USB drive I would appreciate it ;)

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3 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

I said for all you know, that's 2 assumptions you've made regarding my drives. By the way, I can boot any NVMe drive using Clover, just as I'll be using it to boot Catalina on a machine without UEFI....

 

I never said you can't play games on a Mac, I've used the frigging things for years, and I'm building a hackintosh now. I have Steam and games installed on my iMac....

 

I know that the Pro exists, you are missing my point that Apple like to lock down hardware only to restrict where you can buy it from. My Power Mac has a standard AGP connector, can I put an X700 in it? Can I balls.

I don't even know what you're talking about now. When did hackintosh come into the picture?

Why should anyone give a fuck about an old compute? I'm talking about what's available today. And it's standard PCIe express lanes.

3 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

If you could give me some hints on how to get Disk Utility to simply format a USB drive I would appreciate it ;)

I don't have a mac with me at hand to give you step by step but it is definitely possible. Google it. I remember seeing the ability to choose various file system formats like Apple Journaled, FAT32, exFAT, APFS, etc

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42 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

If you could give me some hints on how to get Disk Utility to simply format a USB drive I would appreciate it

921068886_ScreenShot2020-01-05at00_57_42.png.dce7bb28c77f21272a51357a37906715.png

Choose the drive that you want to format, press "erase" (highlighted above), choose the format that you need, then press erase.

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3 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

921068886_ScreenShot2020-01-05at00_57_42.png.dce7bb28c77f21272a51357a37906715.png

Choose the drive that you want to format, press "erase" (highlighted above), choose the format that you need, then press erase.

I ended up having to use diskutil, it only picked up a 4.1MB FAT12 partition that doesn't exist. Worked fine in Windows though, oh the joys, forgot how much of a tit it can be at times.

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Linus has been very critical of Apple if you haven't noticed. 

 

i'm sorry that Apple making some good products triggers you but deal with it lol

Phone: iPhone SE 2020 | 64GB iOS
MacBook Pro: Mid-2012 | Core i5 3210M | 8GB RAM | 250GB SSD | macOS

PC: Supermicro X8DT3 | 2x Xeon X5650 | R9 290X | 32GB RAM500GB SSD | Bitfenix Whisper 850W | Windows 10

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13 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

I think this thread has gone on for long enough

 

269088971_EJ6p80YX0AEyLlp.jpglarge.jpg.370f677a70e067638d006646f16a863b.jpg

But it's fun waching Apple people get in a flap :)

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1 hour ago, Curious Pineapple said:

But it's fun waching Apple people get in a flap :)

this is why this forum sucks now...

Phone: iPhone SE 2020 | 64GB iOS
MacBook Pro: Mid-2012 | Core i5 3210M | 8GB RAM | 250GB SSD | macOS

PC: Supermicro X8DT3 | 2x Xeon X5650 | R9 290X | 32GB RAM500GB SSD | Bitfenix Whisper 850W | Windows 10

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Just now, Twilight said:

this is why this forum sucks now...

If people didn't persistantly try to defend bad practice and design cockups then there would be no flaps to be seen.

 

So far I have spent about 6 hours trying to get Catalina onto a USB drive for installation.

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1 hour ago, Curious Pineapple said:

So far I have spent about 6 hours trying to get Catalina onto a USB drive for installation.

why? if you have a Mac with Catalina support just hold command+option+r and boot it to internet recovery and install the OS from there. 

Phone: iPhone SE 2020 | 64GB iOS
MacBook Pro: Mid-2012 | Core i5 3210M | 8GB RAM | 250GB SSD | macOS

PC: Supermicro X8DT3 | 2x Xeon X5650 | R9 290X | 32GB RAM500GB SSD | Bitfenix Whisper 850W | Windows 10

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