*SPOILERS* Star Wars - The Rise of Skywalker Discussion *SPOILERS*

[Zando_]

Just now, Crunchy Dragon said:

I mean, from the strategic point of view, this makes sense. Why have just one planet-destroying monolith when you can have literal hundreds, even thousands of them?

Makes double sense. Look at any weapon system over time. They get more and more powerful in smaller and smaller packages. They become easier and cheaper to build in volume while being far more effective than the older version. This was a logical and reasonable progression of Death Star tech. And if you have the tech, and it's that compact, why wouldn't you put a planet killing cannon on every single ship in your galaxy destroying fleet? 

[dalekphalm]

Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Anakin was supposed to destroy the Sith, not dark side users/the dark side. Hell, even some Jedi, like Mace Windu and Qui Gon used the dark side on occasions (AFAIK). Not all dark side users/evil force users are Sith.

It's true that not all dark side users are Sith - Sith is one specific faction. All Sith are Dark Side users though.

 

As for the Prophecy, the Jedi think it meant that Anakin was going to Destroy the Sith - but the Jedi didn't know shit about the Prophecy. Most of them didn't even believe it was real, and it was heavily discouraged to even do research about it.

Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

I don't think so, 7 and 8 were OK and they didn't feature any Sith. Kylo Ren and Snoke were dark side users, but (AFAIK) they weren't Sith lords.

Correct. But the Sith coming back isn't some new crazy thing. That was the Status Quo in Legends.

[PCGuy_5960]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Correct. But the Sith coming back isn't some new crazy thing. That was the Status Quo in Legends.

Yeah, but not in canon. Idk, personally, I think it would have been better not to bring back the Sith. We already had Snoke, a powerful dark side user who wasn't a Sith (unconfirmed, but still). I really don't understand why he was killed off in TLJ.

[Zando_]

12 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

As for the Prophecy, the Jedi think it meant that Anakin was going to Destroy the Sith - but the Jedi didn't know shit about the Prophecy. Most of them didn't even believe it was real, and it was heavily discouraged to even do research about it.

^^^ Something something balance to the Force. Which the Jedi took to mean killing the Sith/dark side in general, which would actually unbalance the force lol. If that's even what the prophecy really said in the first place anyways. A lot of Jedi stuff was wrapped up in years of rules on rules and traditions with a side of rules and maybe a couple more traditions. A lot of contradictions too, like a cult of warrior monks aligning with one specific political party and then declaring themselves as peacekeepers, just before assuming command of a slave army and leading a fullscale galactic war. 

To be fair they didn't read the rules and then played directly into Palpatine's plans. IIRC Order 66 basically said that if Jedi were to stage a coup that they were to be killed (due to their powers, it's too dangerous to take them as prisoners). They went off in a huff to murder the Chancellor of the Republic because he disagreed with their religious beliefs and completely ignored any proper procedure. If they'd been a little less self-righteous and less blinded by their hate for Sith, they'd have seen that was really dumb. They made it so easy for Palpatine to paint them as traitors and in the wrong since they ignored the entire legal side and public perception. Though this may have been kicked out of canon, IIRC most of that info is from books that are now Legends, and I haven't bothered to sit down and sort out what is actual Disney Canon and what is not. I tend to just accept stuff so long as it makes sense and doesn't contradict other stuff in the universe and pre-established lore. 

 

12 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Correct. But the Sith coming back isn't some new crazy thing. That was the Status Quo in Legends.

^^^ Yep. They pretty much always come back, almost like the Dark Side doesn't just stop existing because it's followers were temporarily extinguished. 
 

6 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yeah, but not in canon. Idk, personally, I think it would have been better not to bring back the Sith. We already had Snoke, a powerful dark side user who wasn't a Sith (unconfirmed, but still). I really don't understand why he was killed off in TLJ.

Canon barely covers any history though, AFAIK they kicked out all the TOR era stuff from Disney Canon. If you're talking canon from the 9 films and lore around them, that's a tiny like... 70 - 100 year or so chunk of all of Star Wars history? A period dominated by one single Sith, of course there aren't many examples of the Sith coming back since there was pretty much just the one for the majority of this time period. 

EDIT: Oh yeah Snoke was a clone puppet controlled by Palpatine btw, he wasn't an autonomous individual or a dark side user, he was a toy used by a Sith. 

[Crunchy Dragon]

13 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Makes double sense. Look at any weapon system over time. They get more and more powerful in smaller and smaller packages. They become easier and cheaper to build in volume while being far more effective than the older version. This was a logical and reasonable progression of Death Star tech. And if you have the tech, and it's that compact, why wouldn't you put a planet killing cannon on every single ship in your galaxy destroying fleet? 

Right, it makes miles more sense than just making a bigger Death Star with the same key weakness(see: The Force Awakens). Star Destroyers, to my knowledge, don't have a thermal exhaust port linked directly to the main reactor that can causes a chain reaction and blow the whole thing up.

[Zando_]

Just now, Crunchy Dragon said:

Right, it makes miles more sense than just making a bigger Death Star with the same key weakness(see: The Force Awakens). Star Destroyers, to my knowledge, don't have a thermal exhaust port linked directly to the main reactor that can causes a chain reaction and blow the whole thing up.

Also true lol (and yeah Starkiller is the main big dumb from TFA). They did have a weakness, but it was an extremely logical one: simply blow up the weapon itself ez clap. 

 

And to be fair to Starkiller, the Original Trilogy recycled the Death Star too lol. DS1: you fly through a trench, shoot torpedoes down the hole, kablooie. DS2: you fly through a hole in the Death Star itself, shoot things into the reactor, kablooie. Both were killed in very similar ways lol, either shooting torpedoes or yourself through a hole in the surface. And then ofc Starkiller died the same way, simply flying in the hole and shooting the thing then flying out. 

[PCGuy_5960]

5 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

^^^ Something something balance to the Force. Which the Jedi took to mean killing the Sith/dark side in general, which would actually unbalance the force lol. If that's even what the prophecy really said in the first place anyways. A lot of Jedi stuff was wrapped up in years of rules on rules and traditions with a side of rules and maybe a couple more traditions. A lot of contradictions too, like a cult of warrior monks aligning with one specific political party and then declaring themselves as peacekeepers, just before assuming command of a slave army and leading a fullscale galactic war. 

To be fair they didn't read the rules and then played directly into Palpatine's plans. IIRC Order 66 basically said that if Jedi were to stage a coup that they were to be killed (due to their powers, it's too dangerous to take them as prisoners). They went off in a huff to murder the Chancellor of the Republic because he disagreed with their religious beliefs and completely ignored any proper procedure. If they'd been a little less self-righteous and less blinded by their hate for Sith, they'd have seen that was really dumb. They made it so easy for Palpatine to paint them as traitors and in the wrong since they ignored the entire legal side and public perception. Though this may have been kicked out of canon, IIRC most of that info is from books that are now Legends, and I haven't bothered to sit down and sort out what is actual Disney Canon and what is not. I tend to just accept stuff so long as it makes sense and doesn't contradict other stuff in the universe and pre-established lore.

AFAIK the prophecy also said that a lot of Jedi would die for their sins and sortsightedness. (that or it was linked to some other prophecy that said that, I'm not sure TBH)

7 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

EDIT: Oh yeah Snoke was a clone puppet controlled by Palpatine btw, he wasn't an autonomous individual or a dark side user, he was a toy used by a Sith. 

We didn't know that in Episode 8 tho.  

 

Also, I didn't really like that, he was such an interesting character. Turning him into nothing more than a puppet controlled by palpatine kinda sucked IMO.

[dalekphalm]

5 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yeah, but not in canon.

Sure but what does that matter? A lot of the people who complain about the new disney Canon are upset that Legends was made non-Canon - that includes Sith returning (or really, never having left), it also includes Palps coming back from the dead, among lots of other things.

5 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Idk, personally, I think it would have been better not to bring back the Sith. We already had Snoke, a powerful dark side user who wasn't a Sith (unconfirmed, but still). I really don't understand why he was killed off in TLJ.

You'd have to ask Rian Johnson - killing Snoke makes sense in the context of Palps coming back, but I don't think Rian was planning for that either. He was trying to setup Kylo Ren as the big baddie.

 

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

^^^ Something something balance to the Force. Which the Jedi took to mean killing the Sith/dark side in general, which would actually unbalance the force lol. If that's even what the prophecy really said in the first place anyways. A lot of Jedi stuff was wrapped up in years of rules on rules and traditions with a side of rules and maybe a couple more traditions. A lot of contradictions too, like a cult of warrior monks aligning with one specific political party and then declaring themselves as peacekeepers, just before assuming command of a slave army and leading a fullscale galactic war. 

All true - the Jedi as an organization never understood the prophecy, and their understanding of it literally makes no sense.

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

To be fair they didn't read the rules and then played directly into Palpatine's plans. IIRC Order 66 basically said that if Jedi were to stage a coup that they were to be killed (due to their powers, it's too dangerous to take them as prisoners).

Indeed - in fact, in Legends, there was another Order (order 65), that stated that if the Senate declared the Chancellor unfit for duty, the Clones would remove him from office (or kill him if necessary). There were 150 contingency plans in Legends.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Order_65

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Contingency_Orders_for_the_Grand_Army_of_the_Republic:_Order_Initiation,_Orders_1_Through_150

 

I don't think much of that is Canon anymore mind you.

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

They went off in a huff to murder the Chancellor of the Republic because he disagreed with their religious beliefs and completely ignored any proper procedure. If they'd been a little less self-righteous and less blinded by their hate for Sith, they'd have seen that was really dumb. They made it so easy for Palpatine to paint them as traitors and in the wrong since they ignored the entire legal side and public perception.

In fact, had they simply gone straight to the Senate, it would have likely been fairly easy to enact Order 65 right then and there. The problem is that the Jedi tried to remove Palps because he was a Sith Lord - when instead, they should have removed him because he's leading the Separatists and is therefore a traitor to the Republic.

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

Though this may have been kicked out of canon, IIRC most of that info is from books that are now Legends, and I haven't bothered to sit down and sort out what is actual Disney Canon and what is not. I tend to just accept stuff so long as it makes sense and doesn't contradict other stuff in the universe and pre-established lore. 

It's a mishmash - most things from Legends sources were made non-canon, some stuff was re-integrated into Canon.

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

^^^ Yep. They pretty much always come back, almost like the Dark Side doesn't just stop existing because it's followers were temporarily extinguished. 

The Jedi have tried and failed to destroy the Sith many times over the history of the galaxy. They've failed every time. The only reason it was even remotely possible in the Imperial era was due to the Rule of Two having been established 1000 years before the movies.

 

And in Legends, everyone ignored that rule, including Palps.

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

Canon barely covers any history though, AFAIK they kicked out all the TOR era stuff from Disney Canon. If you're talking canon from the 9 films and lore around them, that's a tiny like... 70 - 100 year or so chunk of all of Star Wars history? A period dominated by one single Sith, of course there aren't many examples of the Sith coming back since there was pretty much just the one for the majority of this time period. 

Yes, all of TOR and KOTOR, etc, is all Legends now.

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

EDIT: Oh yeah Snoke was a clone puppet controlled by Palpatine btw, he wasn't an autonomous individual or a dark side user, he was a toy used by a Sith. 

Well we don't know the exact extent of this. Was Snoke simply someone being manipulated by Palps, or was he literally a puppet that Palps was literally controlling using the Force as a remote body? I suspect the former, but I also suspect that Palps still used the force to heavily control Snoke.

 

10 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Right, it makes miles more sense than just making a bigger Death Star with the same key weakness(see: The Force Awakens). Star Destroyers, to my knowledge, don't have a thermal exhaust port linked directly to the main reactor that can causes a chain reaction and blow the whole thing up.

Small nitpick, but Starkiller base didn't have the same weakness as the Death Star - and said "weakness" was heavily shielded, and was only able to be destroyed because of explosives set off inside the base by Chewie and co.

 

And the exhaust port, as described by Rogue One, was an intentional flaw put there by Galen Erso.

 

I was never a fan of the constant re-do of superweapons in Legends and neither a fan in Canon, so I didn't love Starkiller Base either, but it was a minor flaw that was easily overlooked.

 

4 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

AFAIK the prophecy also said that a lot of Jedi would die for their sins and sortsightedness. (that or it was linked to some other prophecy that said that, I'm not sure TBH)

We didn't know that in Episode 8 tho.  

 

Also, I didn't really like that, he was such an interesting character. Turning him into nothing more than a puppet controlled by palpatine kinda sucked IMO.

Well, his character was fucked anyway when he was killed off, so *shrugs*. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Some of the Jedi believed that the prophecy was already fulfilled a thousand years ago, because when the Rule of Two was instituted, the Jedi thought the Sith had completely destroyed themselves and were gone forever.

[Crunchy Dragon]

7 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Small nitpick, but Starkiller base didn't have the same weakness as the Death Star - and said "weakness" was heavily shielded, and was only able to be destroyed because of explosives set off inside the base by Chewie and co.

 

And the exhaust port, as described by Rogue One, was an intentional flaw put there by Galen Erso.

 

I was never a fan of the constant re-do of superweapons in Legends and neither a fan in Canon, so I didn't love Starkiller Base either, but it was a minor flaw that was easily overlooked.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I saw TFA once opening night and only the first 30 minutes of Rogue One.

[Zando_]

6 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

AFAIK the prophecy also said that a lot of Jedi would die for their sins and sortsightedness. (that or it was linked to some other prophecy that said that, I'm not sure TBH)

Could've been. Either way, it was both a terrible yet... tbh justified thing that most of them were wiped out. Oh yeah, the baaaasically kidnapping children and indoctrinating them (but refusing kids who weren't vulnerable young enough) was kinda not good tbh. 

 

Just now, dalekphalm said:

You'd have to ask Rian Johnson - killing Snoke makes sense in the context of Palps coming back, but I don't think Rian was planning for that either. He was trying to setup Kylo Ren as the big baddie.

Agh ninja'd, exactly what I was gonna say. Having another director try and set up everything his way in the middle of your trilogy is oofies for the lore and characters. 

 

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

In fact, had they simply gone straight to the Senate, it would have likely been fairly easy to enact Order 65 right then and there. The problem is that the Jedi tried to remove Palps because he was a Sith Lord - when instead, they should have removed him because he's leading the Separatists and is therefore a traitor to the Republic.

Exactly lol. It would have been so easy to just say "hey so Anakin Skywalker, renowned general, poster boy of the Clone Wars*, well known and very close friend of the Chancellor, has just come out saying that yeah he's been leading the Separatists and sabotaging the republic this entire time so he's under arrest awaiting trial now". 

 

5 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Well we don't know the exact extent of this. Was Snoke simply someone being manipulated by Palps, or was he literally a puppet that Palps was literally controlling using the Force as a remote body? I suspect the former, but I also suspect that Palps still used the force to heavily control Snoke.

True, but either way he was created by Palps. Palpy had a few tubs of extra Snokes and some spare Snoke parts just chilling in his creepy ice palace lol, you see them in TRS.

 

6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Small nitpick, but Starkiller base didn't have the same weakness as the Death Star - and said "weakness" was heavily shielded, and was only able to be destroyed because of explosives set off inside the base by Chewie and co.

 

And the exhaust port, as described by Rogue One, was an intentional flaw put there by Galen Erso.

 

I was never a fan of the constant re-do of superweapons in Legends and neither a fan in Canon, so I didn't love Starkiller Base either, but it was a minor flaw that was easily overlooked.

Good point. Accounting one specific smuggler mad enough to try coming out of hyperspace in-atmo isn't really something most militaries would tend to do. Obviously no one had succeeded in doing so before, or at least no one knew about it, otherwise countermeasures for that would have been a standard part of planetary shield tech. 

 

8 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Some of the Jedi believed that the prophecy was already fulfilled a thousand years ago, because when the Rule of Two was instituted, the Jedi thought the Sith had completely destroyed themselves and were gone forever.

Lol. Rule of Two was made specifically to stop the Sith from destroying themselves though, they were hitting new, previously unattainable levels of infighting and backstabbing at the time IIRC. Probably why they lost the war...

 

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I saw TFA once opening night and only the first 30 minutes of Rogue One.

Finish Rogue One. Excellent movie, one of if not the best of the new ones. 

*Also another reason I hate the Council for being dicks to him for years and also denying him the rank of Master, when his exploits and skills were certainly at the level of a Master, in fact he was far above the majority of them, just the only ones we see him compared to are the Council themselves and Obi Wan, who was another extremely powerful Jedi. IDK why they had a personal grudge against him, I guess because he recognized a lotta the rules were dumb? 

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, but in those comic books, Palps didn't have a huge fleet and almost regained control of the galaxy, did he?

He did!

1 hour ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

I guess my main problem with this movie is how irrelevant Anakin was. Like, if they made it so Anakin's force ghost killed Palpatine

Hmm, that would have felt pretty contrived... force ghosts barely ever interact with the world outside of giving advice, if they could just fight as though they were alive then why didn't Qui-gon just kill Palpatine in episode 3? If they really wanted to have a full on nostalgia trip they could just have had Ben kill Palpatine by throwing him in a pit while he was distracted with the fleet.

1 hour ago, MageTank said:

I'd like to think that Rey defeats him in the physical material world, then he turns into a force ghost to spite her, only for there to be a line of Jedi behind him as force ghosts smacking a baseball bat against their hands. That's an ending I'd pay to see.

lmao

[PCGuy_5960]

3 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

IDK why they had a personal grudge against him, I guess because he recognized a lotta the rules were dumb? 

I think they didn't trust him because he was friends with mr sheev. lol

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Hmm, that would have felt pretty contrived... force ghosts barely ever interact with the world outside of giving advice

Thankfully, in this movie we saw that they can actually interact with the real world, as Luke was able to hold Anakin's lightsaber and give it back to Rey.

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

if they could just fight as though they were alive then why didn't Qui-gon just kill Palpatine in episode 3?

Qui Gon wasn't supposed to be the chosen one tho.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Crunchy Dragon said:

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I saw TFA once opening night and only the first 30 minutes of Rogue One.

Why only the first 30 minutes? The last act of that movie is perhaps some of the best Star Wars ever committed to film - and it has one of, if not the best space battle ever depicted in Star Wars.

 

Anyway, Rogue One basically fills in details of the how and why for a lot of DS1 questions. Such as why the exhaust port would blow up the whole damn station - TL;DR: Sabotage.

 

[Crunchy Dragon]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

Why only the first 30 minutes? The last act of that movie is perhaps some of the best Star Wars ever committed to film - and it has one of, if not the best space battle ever depicted in Star Wars.

 

Anyway, Rogue One basically fills in details of the how and why for a lot of DS1 questions. Such as why the exhaust port would blow up the whole damn station - TL;DR: Sabotage.

It was late, I wanted to watch the new Mando episode, and I just never came back to it.

 

Pretty sure I saw the guy who played Ip Man in those movies near the beginning, though.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

It was late, I wanted to watch the new Mando episode, and I just never came back to it.

 

Pretty sure I saw the guy who played Ip Man in those movies near the beginning, though.

Donnie Yen, yes - he's one of the main characters in the movie. He's a guardian of the whills, which is basically a sect of monks that worship Force - they're not Jedi, but are/were affiliated with Ancient Jedi. Not every member of the order is force sensitive, but some are. None of them received any training remotely similar to that of actual Jedi though.

[Sauron]

5 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Thankfully, in this movie we saw that they can actually interact with the real world, as Luke was able to hold Anakin's lightsaber and give it back to Rey.

I said their interactions were limited, not that they never interact. Holding up a lightsaber and fighting are quite different. It's also not entirely clear what the rules are for the ghosts to even appear - they seem to only ever appear to jedi who shared some bond with them and only briefly. In short, you can assume that any physical interactions shown are just there to reinforce a point in the advice they're giving, not some power they can use from the grave to turn fights.

10 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Qui Gon wasn't supposed to be the chosen one tho.

Palpatine did die, and so did the only other Sith alive at the time - Vader. Regardless, the prequels don't exactly have the most coherent plot either. If we want to accept that Anakin was the "chosen one" and he was going to bring the Sith down once and for all then any conflict that arises after episode 6 would have to not involve any Sith or just be contradictory.

 

I don't have a problem with loose interpretations on what "chosen one" means, after all in episode 4 we're explicitly told that Luke's father is dead which turns out to be true only in pretty contrived sense. Half of the saga makes no sense if you take everything as literal fixed canon in every movie and that's not just in the prequels or sequels. The timeline of events in particular is really weird.

[Jarsky]

1 hour ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, but in those comic books, Palps didn't have a huge fleet and almost regained control of the galaxy, did he? I guess my main problem with this movie is how irrelevant Anakin was. Like, if they made it so Anakin's force ghost killed Palpatine (instead of Rey), this movie would have been a 8-9/10 IMO. (Some more force ghosts of old Jedi in the ending would have been nice too)

Also, are we sure that Sheev even had a lover? He could have "made" his son with midiclorian manipulation using what Darth Plagueis taught him.

Personally I would have liked to have seen a lightsaber battle between either Kylo or Rey and another hidden Sith apprentice. It wasn't uncommon for Palpatine to break the 1 apprentice mantra.

 

I also don't think Force Ghosts should be able to interact physically, it breaks everything we know about them right up until TRoS and kinda makes killing a Jedi pointless if they become even more powerful after death. I would have liked to have seen the force ghosts appear (Anakin, Obi Wan, Qui Gon, Yoda, Luke, Leia, etc...) and feed their power into Rey. Then have her do something other than hold out a light saber and reflect Palpatines own lightning. Perhaps she could use her own lightning or create a force barrier in the 'Force Ghost blue' to absorb his lightnings energy and then in a DBZ move, blast it back into him. Show us something different....we really didn't need a third occurance of Sheevs own lightning being used against him. 

[PCGuy_5960]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

I said their interactions were limited, not that they never interact. Holding up a lightsaber and fighting are quite different. It's also not entirely clear what the rules are for the ghosts to even appear - they seem to only ever appear to jedi who shared some bond with them and only briefly. In short, you can assume that any physical interactions shown are just there to reinforce a point in the advice they're giving, not some power they can use from the grave to turn fights.

He wouldn't necessarily have to fight, but yeah, I get your point.

2 minutes ago, Jarsky said:

I would have liked to have seen the force ghosts appear (Anakin, Obi Wan, Qui Gon, Yoda, Luke, Leia, etc...) and feed their power into Rey.

That would have been a nice touch.

 

Star Wars Theory's ending idea would have been almost perfect IMO:

 

[Dissitesuxba11s]

Just watched it last night now that the hype is over and the theaters are not as crowded.

 

Skimming through the past posts it looks like some of you hated it and some, like me, enjoyed it. From the get-go it was paced really fast and kept me entertained. I really liked the fact that there are more Stormtroppers that are voiced by women, not just with that black girl but also with some of the background dialogue. Speaking of that unmasked female Stormtropper (sorry, I forgot her name), I really hope Lando wasn't hinting that we will be seeing a spin-off starring her looking for her parents or something. 

 

Looks like everyone touched on the points that I was going to discuss so no point in regurgitating what they said. I don't know about you, but the moral of the story that I got from it was always back up your storage and do it frequently.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Dissitesuxba11s
Typo

[Dissitesuxba11s]

Another plot hole. They said that the Holdo maneuver was a 1 in a million chance tactic, but in the montage a la Independence Day showing all the Star Destroyers being destroyed, the one in Endor is shown to be destroyed with said impossible maneuver.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Dissitesuxba11s
Corrected below.

[dalekphalm]

18 minutes ago, Dissitesuxba11s said:

Another plot hole. They said that the Holdo maneuver was a 1 in a million chance tactic, but in the montage a la Independence Day showing all the Star Destroyers being destroyed, the one in Endor is shown to be destroyed with said impossible maneuver.

That's not a plot hole though - being 1-in-a-million doesn't mean impossible, it simply means it's an incredibly unlikely tactic that's far more likely to just fail.

 

That's like saying being hit by lightning is a plot hole because it's unlikely.

 

I'll have to pay attention to that scene the next time I watch it - I don't remember specifically any destroyer having been destroyed using the Holdo maneuver, but I could have missed it easily.

[Dissitesuxba11s]

13 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

That's not a plot hole though - being 1-in-a-million doesn't mean impossible, it simply means it's an incredibly unlikely tactic that's far more likely to just fail.

 

That's like saying being hit by lightning is a plot hole because it's unlikely.

That makes sense. 

 

14 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I'll have to pay attention to that scene the next time I watch it - I don't remember specifically any destroyer having been destroyed using the Holdo maneuver, but I could have missed it easily.

It does go by pretty quick. I just remember Ewoks looking at it and it had the same debris spray as what happened to Snoke's ship.

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, Dissitesuxba11s said:

That makes sense. 

 

It does go by pretty quick. I just remember Ewoks looking at it and it had the same debris spray as what happened to Snoke's ship.

I do remember the Ewoks (including what we're lead to believe is Wicket) - I'll have to specifically watch for that next time I see it.

[Sauron]

31 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I'll have to pay attention to that scene the next time I watch it - I don't remember specifically any destroyer having been destroyed using the Holdo maneuver, but I could have missed it easily.

You can see it in the background, nobody mentions it though. It's completely irrelevant to the plot so I would find it hard to call it a "plot hole" even if it had been explicitly stated that the maneuver was 100% impossible.

[JoostinOnline]

I went into the theater just looking to enjoy it, and I did. So much of the community has set near impossible expectations for Star Wars movies that I think they're just setting themselves up for failure. If I were to spend time thinking of things that I wish were different, I know I could write a very long list. But I think that's the wrong attitude. I'm paying for entertainment, and looking for flaws is just shooting myself in the foot.

 

I enjoyed the entire sequel trilogy. They weren't masterpieces, but with different directors, time constraints, rewrites because of actors dying, and a new parent company, I think it was better than could be expected.