Apple to Launch 'Completely Wireless' iPhone Without Lightning Connector in 2021. Possibly skipping USB-C adoption for iPhone completely

[RejZoR]

5 hours ago, Waffles13 said:

This is precisely the reason that it's so important to have. Even if the wireless chargers are fast and affordable, it's never going to be able to be as fast as a good wired charger, and certainly not as ubiquitous. In those situations where you need a charge and you don't have a your personal stuff around, it's important to have options. 

 

I don't see any possible upside to this other than theoretically better water resistance (and current phones are practically waterproof already) or just pure aesthetics at the cost of features/options. It's certainly not like it's gonna make the phone cheaper. 

There are actually more Qi chargers around than there are people with Lightning cables...

 

My charging pad supports 9V charging, but I'm kinda afraid to use it in this mode since Apple and entire community is so vague about everything over 5V charging and only mention PowerDelivery "standard" where I'm powering it from a powerful QC3.0 adapter. Coz when I place it on at 9V operation, it shows 1A charging rate or slightly more. Which would mean 10W which can't be the case with iPhone which supposedly has 7.5W limit. Unless my charger shows raw rate which with included wireless loses would end up being around 7.5W or less in the end... My pad has a realtime charging display indicator and shows amps and voltages used for charging...

[The Sloth]

"we care about the environment" , Climate change is real and this will screw things up even more. Headphones like airpods are useless after a few years due to the lithium battery. Wireless future is good,long as we have a good solution, right now wireless is trash.

 

 

Pros 

- cleaner looking 

 

- easier to use with a single device( or multiple modern device, BT still takes time to connect) 

 

- makes apple lots of profit 

 

Cons 

 

- Bad for the environment( this is a huge deal, actions speak louder than words) 

 

- Difficult to use with multiple older devices, something like my DSI can't use wireless headphones. 

 

- Planned opalescence( batteries will degrade)

 

-Proprietary chips( airpods have better experience with iphone than an android phone due to W1 chip, experience will vary widely) 

 

- Fast charging can only be so fast, wireless changers have a hard limit especially if you use a portable changer. 

 

- Latency,  wireless headphones still have latency even if its slight. 

 

 

At the end of the day

if it ain't broke, don't fix it /don't screw over the planet. 

 

 

 

 

[Drak3]

13 hours ago, shermantanker said:

Apple is a lot of things, but not stupid. 

No, but they know the majority of the market is.

[NumLock21]

Sometimes Mr. Kuo gets it right, something he does not, and I hope this time he doesn't. But with Apple, they good at forcing change on the consumer, whether we like it or not, so well see by then if Kuo's prediction is correct.

 

[ARikozuM]

I don't mind if they get rid of the ports while also offering a more affordable ported version. 

 

We really do need people to start working on more efficient wireless charging or contact charging and Apple is putting the funds into that R&D. This would be great for those of us that have specified spots on/in our desks and cars for wireless/magnetic docks. 

[Commodus]

First, folks: 2021 is a while off, and even if Kuo has accurate info, things could change.

 

With that said, I can't help but wonder if Apple wants to try something like at-a-distance wireless power.  Imagine if you just had to plug something into the wall outlet and your phone nearby started charging, no pad required.  I could see some issues with that (how do you know the adapter at the airport is yours apart from its position?), but that'd be outstanding.

 

Of course, watch as it's actually a switch to USB-C, and Kuo's contacts just got it wrong.

[RejZoR]

@nerdslayer1

Quote

 

- Planned opalescence( batteries will degrade)

 

- Proprietary chips( airpods have better experience with iphone than an android phone due to W1 chip, experience will vary widely) 

 

 

That's just false info. Battery degrades in other phones as well. And they are not replaceable for ages. Accusing Apple of something everyone is doing and creates a problem of its own is just dishonest. I checked official costs for battery replacement when phone was new and it was 80€. 80€ for a phone that initially cost 850€ is not absurd, Apple or not with its premium BS.

 

As for W1 and H1, they are essentially Bluetooth compatible chips. They have better experience with iPhones because they are specifically designed to work great with their phones. They just work like regular bluetooth earphones on Androids. I got them for my Windows 10 laptop coz wires were getting a bit in a way and were inconvenient for watching from couch. They work just fine, minus tap gestures. But that's not Apple's fault imo. There is probably some app that adds that even for Windows or something...

[Unixsystem]

15 hours ago, RejZoR said:

There are actually more Qi chargers around than there are people with Lightning cables...

I very much doubt that. The lightning connector has been around for ages, and chances are that if you are in a room with 10 people, at least 3 or 4 of them have an Iphone. Even if you hang out with people that use wireless chargers, what are the odds that they have them on them when out and about? Less than someone who throws a charger/backup battery in their bag, I would think. 

 

Also, you're assuming that Apple would use Qi, and not their own proprietary charging standard. 

[Bombastinator]

10 minutes ago, Waffles13 said:

I very much doubt that. The lightning connector has been around for ages, and chances are that if you are in a room with 10 people, at least 3 or 4 of them have an Iphone. Even if you hang out with people that use wireless chargers, what are the odds that they have them on them when out and about? Less than someone who throws a charger/backup battery in their bag, I would think. 

 

Also, you're assuming that Apple would use Qi, and not their own proprietary charging standard. 

I’ve got 6 Qi chargers.  I’m very unusual though. I only know one person that has any and that guy is a phone accessory hardware developer.  Even I have more Apple phone cables than I do Qi chargers.

[Unixsystem]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

I’ve got 6 Qi chargers.  I’m very unusual though. I only know one person that has any and that guy is a phone accessory hardware developer.  Even I have more Apple phone cables than I do Qi chargers.

And how many of those Qi chargers do you have on you at any given time? For around the house/car, wireless chargers are great, and Apple absolutely should support them, but even the most compact Qi charger is going to be bigger than a compact wall wart plus cable. Not to mention that I've never heard of a battery bank that uses wireless charging, and even if they do exist I'd imagine that you are just wasting a huge percentage of the charge versus just using a cable. 

[suchamoneypit]

If all phones adopt, with no port, how will you do something like unlocking the boot loader or rooting?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, suchamoneypit said:

If all phones adopt, with no port, how will you do something like unlocking the boot loader or rooting?

Wirelessly. 

[suchamoneypit]

1 minute ago, floofer said:

Wirelessly. 

Flashing a phone and wireless are not two things that people like to go together

 

And this give the manufacturers probably an easier time to lock it so you cant

[Bombastinator]

15 minutes ago, suchamoneypit said:

If all phones adopt, with no port, how will you do something like unlocking the boot loader or rooting?

[The Sloth]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

That's just false info. Battery degrades in other phones as well.

I was talking about the whole port less thing not just apple. Also my statement was more about airpods and how they become almost useless after few years of use.

 

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

They have better experience with iPhones because they are specifically designed to work great with their phones.

I know, samsung does the same thing with its own headphones, which is a fault of Bluetooth. Pure bluettoth headphones are shit that's why companies use proprietary tech to make something much better, that's bad for consumers. My wired headphones don't have that issue, plug and chug.

 

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

 

 

 

 

. I got them for my Windows 10 laptop coz wires were getting a bit in a way and were inconvenient for watching from couch. They work just fine, minus tap gestures. But that's not Apple's fault imo. There is probably some app that adds that even for Windows or something...

  Thare is a lot of latency doing something like that, you might not notice it but i do. I have tried airpods with an iphone X and s9+ but at the end of the day wired is superior and environmentally friendlier due to not having a built in expiry date, lets not forget about better sound quality.

[amdorintel]

9 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Wait, so the current $1000 iPhones are low end? Oh my.

i know right, its getting more and more ridiculuous

[dizmo]

Not surprising, they've been going this direction for years, and IIRC they've always said they'd like to end up with portless devices. Makes sense on a lot of fronts.

I'm surprised Apple and Samsung have fallen so far behind when it comes to charging tech. Neither one offers a truly fast charging solution, compared to so many offerings that have come out from much smaller companies. I can only hope that this year Samsung launches it's graphene batteries and that's what they've been holding out for; better batteries, with insane charging speeds of the like we've never seen before.

 

On 12/5/2019 at 3:14 PM, handymanshandle said:

Mmm, portless phones. Can’t wait to not be able to back up anything.

It's as if we don't have wireless ways to do that, or anything....

On 12/5/2019 at 3:44 PM, Sauron said:

And dongles for the charging pad.

 

Also wireless charging is inefficient and wasteful. So much for the pretense of caring about the environment, eh Tim?

In terms of energy consumption, sure. Right now, however it'll only get better. One has to think about how much that weighs against not including tons of cables and power bricks.

On 12/5/2019 at 4:28 PM, dalekphalm said:

That'd be a hard pass for me - a person that upgraded from an iPhone 6s to an Xr (despite the fact that I fundamentally disagree with removing the headphone jack). But I definitely prefer having the option to hardwire the phone into a PC or charge it anywhere even if there's not a Qi charging pad nearby.

 

Now - if they had one model with this as an option, and other models that continued to have cable ports? Fine with me.

IIRC the lower end versions are rumored to retain the cable.

On 12/5/2019 at 4:34 PM, GDRRiley said:

well I should stock up on 6s and 6s+ batteries for me and my GF so we can keep our phone another 3-4 years.

Dear God how much abuse do you put your batteries through.

On 12/5/2019 at 5:41 PM, huilun02 said:

Next up, no screen

$2000

"Best purchase ever"

Well, if Elon Musk has any foresight...

On 12/5/2019 at 7:29 PM, Bombastinator said:

I really really hope this turns out not to be true.  There are big problems with wireless charging.  Don’t get me wrong, it’s handy, but it is not a complete solution.  I say this as an early adopter of Qi wireless pads. I’ve got half a dozen of them and I’ve used them for years.  This would be a very bad idea.

Have you used companies new, or high speed wireless chargers? The tech has come a long way. The old ones were pretty bad, yes, but saying it's just outright bad is kind of like saying "

On 12/5/2019 at 7:30 PM, xtroria said:

I still like to use my phone while being charged

i dont mind a magsafe 2 like implementation, but a completely wireless charging where you have to put it on a pad hampers phone usage severely

plenty of people like to charge their phone at night while using it until they fall asleep. 

Sometimes you have to alter your use habits. Or buy a different device.

Really, though, with fast enough charging it shouldn't take much more than an hour to fully charge from flat.

On 12/6/2019 at 3:50 AM, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah, you can go back even further actually.  The S5 had a headphone jack, USB, and even a removable back + swap-able battery and still managed an IP67 rating that would be totally acceptable for a flagship even today.  I think too often people forget this and buy into the nonsense that features need to be removed to make this better.  This fact should show clearly that a) they don't, and b) how much more do you need anyway?  Are people swimming with their phones?

You'd be surprised how many people drop their phones into the toilet...or a pitcher of beer...

Honestly I think waterproofing phones was one of the better consumer focused advancements we've had in ages. It doesn't really benefit the companies to do it, it's genuinely more of a positive feature for the consumer.

On 12/6/2019 at 2:02 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

To be fair, this goes way beyond apple users.  I've seen this kind of mistake from every area of the market.  Someone even tried to say removing the headphone jack on the Note 10 was to get better waterproofing than the Note 9/S9.  The delusions are real.

Haha, yeah cuz there isn't a huge stylus in the Note or anything

On 12/6/2019 at 3:22 PM, Kisai said:

Nope, stop you right there. If they wanted to increase profit at the expense of usability the battery would last 10 minutes and you'd be expected to keep it permanently married to a battery pack.

 

Yes, the core principle of capitalism is to make money, but so long as there is competition with your product, you can't ask for the moon, and even if you're the only one who knows how to make your product, if the only people who want your product, can't afford it, then you're just willfully leaving money on the table.

 

If something costs you 100$ to make and you sell it for $200 and you sell 1,000,000 of them, then you've made $200,000,000 in profit. However if your item costs $100 to make and you sell it for $1000, and you only sell 10,000 of them, you've only made $10,000,000 in profit. If your item costs $900 to make and you sell it for $1000, and you only sell 10,000 of them, then you've only made $1,000,000 in profit. The market will always favor making the product affordable for the most amount of people so long as it's a desirable product.

 

If you are explicitly making a luxury item, that mere ownership of the item is a status symbol (which Apple both is and isn't) so you can charge whatever the market will bear for the item. However if your subsequent items are worse, they are not going to buy the new thing over the old thing. That's the risk Apple always makes when they ask a high premium for a product with less functionality than the previous one. Battery Life, Screen Size, and physical ports are things people will readily make a purchasing decision without any regard for brand. If an iPhone has a battery life of 10 minutes, and a Samsung Galaxy has a battery life of two months, not a single person would buy an iPhone. Yet the reality is that Apple sets the battery life at whatever gives the phone approximately the expected usage is, which is about 14 hours talk/21 days standby. 

  

So I have a feeling that the analyst is getting things wrong in a major way. One way of potentially solving the "port" issue is by having things magnetically orient and attach to the phone instead. So they might remove the "hole" in the phone in favor of a USB 3.1 "magnetic" attachment. eg:

 

That's a USB-C charger cable with a magnetic connection.

https://www.vinpok.com/products/bolt-usb-c-magnetic-cable-for-macbook-pro?

 

So instead of having a hole, there might instead be surface-contact pins that magnetically attach to the phone.

 

Now if that's the case, that isn't a bad idea at all, since the biggest problem with cables is that people break the center part off inside the phone or laptop in the case of USB-C. They end up getting broken because people pull the phone out of their pocket by the cable, or they push their laptop up against a wall/desk.

 

Yet, the 3.5mm connector removals on devices is really just about removing 1950's tech from a device for no other reason than it being old (and analog.) People occasionally destroy the analog amplifier's in devices in 3.5mm jacks due to short circuits or crappy kit. So the ideal thing would have been to switch to some kind of magnetically attached and oriented digital audio connector so that short circuits don't happen, and the DAC volume control can be moved to the headphones/speakers themselves. Now imagine stacking two magnetic attachments on top, the charger first and the headphones second by having each magnetically attached device also act as a USB hub.  

Interesting take, however Apple has always said that they don't want to be known as catering to mass market, they want their products to be a little....higher end. That's why for so long they've resisted making budget phones. This instills a sense of value to most people that doesn't really exist. They've done an excellent job of this, and that's why their phones have the social status that they do.

 

This point is again brought up when it comes to costs of products. Yes, while your example is correct (aside from the numbers, it's half the $200 million) for most companies, since Apple positioned itself the way it did, it sells regardless of what they ask, meaning they don't have to price down to sell more to the market. They also don't necessarily have to make better products, as has been shown time and time again.

 

You could also simply see it as a way to reduce BOM costs. Not only are you eliminating the need for the port, you're eliminating additional milling during construction, as well as the cost of the charger and cable. It's highly unlikely they'd include a wireless charger in the box, and this is why it'd be coming to the higher end model; these are people that can afford to buy them separately, and likely won't mind the added cost as it will be seen as an investment to be used with future devices.

21 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

There would be certain pros and cons to that vs continuing with lightning or switching to normal USB

 

Pros:

• Takes up less room in the device
• Safe quick disconnect

Cons:

• A non-standard connector
  • It is worth noting thought that their current plug falls into this same category so it wouldn't be a downgrade at least, just continuing the status quo.  It would carry the downside of making everyone switch their accessories just as you would have to if they went to USB but with none of the upside of joining a standard community though.
• Can easily disconnect unintentionally (this has been shown with magnetic adapter cables in the past)

I'm not sure it would be worth it personally, and I don't think it would necessarily be an upgrade, but at least it wouldn't significantly reduce functionality.

It's funny, but neither of those cons are really a company problem. They make significantly more money since it's not a standard connector, and if accidental disconnection results in damage, then they profit from that as well.

17 hours ago, RejZoR said:

There are actually more Qi chargers around than there are people with Lightning cables...

 

My charging pad supports 9V charging, but I'm kinda afraid to use it in this mode since Apple and entire community is so vague about everything over 5V charging and only mention PowerDelivery "standard" where I'm powering it from a powerful QC3.0 adapter. Coz when I place it on at 9V operation, it shows 1A charging rate or slightly more. Which would mean 10W which can't be the case with iPhone which supposedly has 7.5W limit. Unless my charger shows raw rate which with included wireless loses would end up being around 7.5W or less in the end... My pad has a realtime charging display indicator and shows amps and voltages used for charging...

Depends where you are, I suppose. In North America, for example, that's unlikely to be true.

5 hours ago, nerdslayer1 said:

"we care about the environment" , Climate change is real and this will screw things up even more. Headphones like airpods are useless after a few years due to the lithium battery. Wireless future is good,long as we have a good solution, right now wireless is trash.

 

Pros 

- cleaner looking 

- easier to use with a single device( or multiple modern device, BT still takes time to connect) 

- makes apple lots of profit 

 

Cons 

 

- Bad for the environment( this is a huge deal, actions speak louder than words) 

- Difficult to use with multiple older devices, something like my DSI can't use wireless headphones. 

- Planned opalescence( batteries will degrade)

-Proprietary chips( airpods have better experience with iphone than an android phone due to W1 chip, experience will vary widely) 

- Fast charging can only be so fast, wireless changers have a hard limit especially if you use a portable changer. 

- Latency,  wireless headphones still have latency even if its slight. 

 

At the end of the day if it ain't broke, don't fix it /don't screw over the planet.

Well, depending on how efficient the wireless charging they'd have to go along with it is, it could break even. I mean, how many people already have a Lightening cable laying around when they buy another Apple product? And another charging brick? They sell with every single phone. If you cut those out of the supply chain, it saves quite a bit of waste. Does that negate the less efficient charging standard? Hard to say, but either way it'll push companies to improve their tech.

 

Just because a battery dies, doesn't mean the product is dead. Most products that are higher end can simply have them replaced.

 

Wireless charging can, if you buy the right charger and it's supported, be faster than most phones wired. On the go not so much, but that's a smaller audience.

 

Cars weren't broken when they were dumping tons of pollutants into the air. Yet they still received improvements, that at first, hampered performance. It got better over time. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality is a great way to stagnate advancement to better things.

4 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

I don't mind if they get rid of the ports while also offering a more affordable ported version. 

 

We really do need people to start working on more efficient wireless charging or contact charging and Apple is putting the funds into that R&D. This would be great for those of us that have specified spots on/in our desks and cars for wireless/magnetic docks. 

I do believe this is rumored to just be for the highest end version, so it wouldn't be hard to figure people wouldn't mind spending more on a wireless charger (if that was indeed necessary as a separate option, which honestly only makes sense, otherwise their BOM skyrockets as does waste).

 

There are also companies working on pretty advanced wireless charging; Xiaomi for example, has 40w wireless charging on the horizon; much faster than even a lot of companies fast wired charging. They already have a 30w wireless charger out.

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

@nerdslayer1

 

That's just false info. Battery degrades in other phones as well. And they are not replaceable for ages. Accusing Apple of something everyone is doing and creates a problem of its own is just dishonest. I

 

 

The claim about apples batteries being undersized for the job is not dishonest, Over the iphone 6 range two had undersized batteries that faded faster and required a software update to throttle the phone.  I don't care if people think that is fair or not, the fact is they did not tell anyone they did it and they damn well knew when they designed it that the battery size would result in a shorter life for the expected use.   Also no one is giving other manufacturers a free pass on using batteries that are too small for the job, they get just as much shit.     So no, there is no dishonesty there and the issues people are talking about are real and intentional on apples part.

 

EDIT: for reference the 6 had a larger batter than the 6s and the 6plus had a larger battery than 6s plus.  Even though the s variants were marginal bigger.

https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=6378&idPhone2=7243&idPhone3=6665

[GDRRiley]

13 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Dear God how much abuse do you put your batteries through.

I got a referb phone last year that didn't have a new battery and then about every 2-3 years I swap them.

So I'm thinking about getting 2-3 for myself.

maybe 1-2 for my GF. I know she wants a new phone but we both college kids so dropping 400-500$ on a phone isn't going to happen.

[Founders]

Hey, remember when Apple ditched the 30-pin and everyone got really pissed off because all their old cables and accessories wouldn't work with Apple's new products? Do you also remember people got over it when they realized the Lightning connector was better in every conceivable way? It's only a prediction at this point and one that I saw coming in the near future. Qi technology has improved quite a bit over the last couple of years, with Qi being a standard we'll see further improvements and wider integration. I can't speak for everyone but personally I won't miss having any ports on my phone.   

[Drak3]

6 minutes ago, Founders said:

Hey, remember when Apple ditched the 30-pin and everyone got really pissed off because all their old cables and accessories wouldn't work with Apple's new products? Do you also remember people got over it when they realized the Lightning connector was better in every conceivable way? It's only a prediction at this point and one that I saw coming in the near future. Qi technology has improved quite a bit over the last couple of years, with Qi being a standard we'll see further improvements and wider integration. I can't speak for everyone but personally I won't miss having any ports on my phone.   

I have a fairly new Qi charger.

 

 

It sits in a drawer because it's a piece of shit compared to charging by cable.

[The Sloth]

51 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Well, depending on how efficient the wireless charging they'd have to go along with it is, it could break even. I mean, how many people already have a Lightening cable laying around when they buy another Apple product? And another charging brick? They sell with every single phone. If you cut those out of the supply chain, it saves quite a bit of waste. Does that negate the less efficient charging standard? Hard to say, but either way it'll push companies to improve their tech.

 

Just because a battery dies, doesn't mean the product is dead. Most products that are higher end can simply have them replaced.

 

Wireless charging can, if you buy the right charger and it's supported, be faster than most phones wired. On the go not so much, but that's a smaller audience.

 

Cars weren't broken when they were dumping tons of pollutants into the air. Yet they still received improvements, that at first, hampered performance. It got better over time. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality is a great way to stagnate advancement to better things.

Quote

Well, depending on how efficient the wireless charging they'd have to go along with it is, it could break even.

Wireless charging being more efficient than wired is like saying wireless WiFi being faster than Ethernet, its possible but will take a while, we are not their yet. Its how tech works, wireless takes a lot more energy than wired. 

 

How it works -https://www.computerworld.com/article/3235176/wireless-charging-explained-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work.html 

 

 

 

Quote

Just because a battery dies, doesn't mean the product is dead. Most products that are higher end can simply have them replaced.

I was talking more about airpods, apple doesn't replace batteries on airpods, they give you replacements. 

 

 

Quote

Wireless charging can, if you buy the right charger and it's supported, be faster than most phones wired. On the go not so much, but that's a smaller audience.

 

Proof? show me a phone that has faster wireless charging than wired.

 

 

Quote

Cars weren't broken when they were dumping tons of pollutants into the air. Yet they still received improvements

Tesla's are electric cars that can use renewable energy to recharge them self, most cars are moving toward electric. Age of gas is coming to an end. 

 

 

 

Quote

The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality is a great way to stagnate advancement to better things.

I agree, instead of moving ports companies should focus on something like a fordable device. Iphone 11 pro max looks like a kids toy next to a galaxy fold. My saying goes more toward, doing stupid thing in the name of innovation like the touch bar, removing ports, most pros have 50 dongles to get the functionality back.   

[Founders]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I have a fairly new Qi charger.

 

 

It sits in a drawer because it's a piece of shit compared to charging by cable.

OK... Thanks for sharing...

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

I have a fairly new Qi charger.

 

 

It sits in a drawer because it's a piece of shit compared to charging by cable.

Depends on the cable.  Imho Qi beats the snot out of microUSB2.  That, however, is because MicroUSB2 sucks. Lightning isn’t microUSB2.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Founders said:

OK... Thanks for sharing...

That's how it's always going to be, unless manufacturers intentionally cripple charging by wire. The materials used to make phones and pads have far higher resistance than copper, meaning you'll always need more energy to overcome that resistance.

 

Wireless charging is simply inferior.