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3950X launch a failure

Go to solution Solved by Reppin513,

I got a 3950x off ebay i didn't want to wait. hope it goes well

 

It would be nice to see hobbyist media call out AMD for failing to put products in enthusiasts' hands. Specifically today's abominal launch of the 3950x, where stocks were so short a savvy consumer with buy pages preloaded was unable to get products into e-carts all over the planet. For a hotly anticipated chip that was delayed multiple times one would think some effort be made to get enough product into consumer hands. In reality, in the moments certain sites accidentally went live prior to actual launch, the inventories were wiped out before a launch could even happen. I have read rumors, though not sure if remotely true, of new egg only having 100 chips to sell, and of a distributor in the UK telling a customer only 6 were available to sell in the country. Surely this can't be. Nonetheless, here we are with thousands spent on highest end AM4 builds, waiting for the 3950x to launch; now stuck unable to return anything, as the wait was too long. This screams so loudly of a stunt for good press than a move to please consumers. Linus and gang, please follow up on this topic.

 

-An AMD enthusiast and now FORMER share holder

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Perhaps one day they'll be the size of Intel and have their own fabs, but for now they're at the mercy of TSMC and have to wait in line for silicon. Sure they could sit and stockpile, which is what they did by pushing it back some, but at the end of the day, they can only make so many.

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That quote regarding the stock in the UK was immediately put into question on reddit. No conclusive evidence either way but I'd say it's more speculation that fact in any case.

3950X launch hasn't had huge numbers of chips available, but I'd hardly call that a "failure". As long as demand outstrips supply, it's a good tech product launch. It does sting a bit if you miss out on the first batch, admittedly.

If we're going to start being upset at companies for not having stockpiles of product on hand for every launch, let's just be upset evenly regardless of who does it. And at least a little glad that this wasn't a pure paper launch.

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I understand, though it is crazy how few they seem to actually be shipping. I waited all day to post anything because I was fuming earlier. I just don't understand why they don't look out for their enthusiasts and have an organized preorder. anticipate estimated inventories, accept preorders, perhaps in waves of production, and the heartache is eased.

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they are at the mercy of apple and tsmc. tsmc produces SO MANY CHIPS for SO MANY PEOPLE. apple is their biggest customer right now, making all apple's a13 chips which are in hot demand because well.... iPhones. 

 

amd cannot do anything untill apple's sales slow down. 

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They used GloFlo and due to agreement AMD would get priority in manufacturing for their products, but then almost everyone shit on their choice for "lower frequency than Intel". Now they use TSMC and have to lineup with everyone else (mobile SOCs especially). Guess what? Frequency still sucks and the very same bunch of people bash AMD for getting products out fast enough (like you).

 

Shouldn't have bought the whole system just to return the CPU and get the 3950X later in the first place, especially not one that's so expensive you'd want to return it.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

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The supply chain could be a bit better for sure, but I don't think that's entirely on AMD. Microcenter wasn't saying ANYTHING about if they'd even have any in stock until a few hours before they opened today.

The only way for stuff being sold like this to be "fair" is to do it by lottery. Otherwise it's either an arms race of who has the best online tools to snag pre order listings as soon a they exist or just being fortunate enough to live near a brick and mortar store that has them in stock.

Admittedly, all issues that could be solved with greater supply. But then, how late do you delay a product to wait for good dies to pile up?
 

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

They used GloFlo and due to agreement AMD would get priority in manufacturing for their products, but then almost everyone shit on their choice for "lower frequency than Intel". Now they use TSMC and have to lineup with everyone else (mobile SOCs especially). Guess what? Frequency still sucks and the very same bunch of people bash AMD for getting products out fast enough (like you).

 

Shouldn't have bought the whole system just to return the CPU and get the 3950X later in the first place, especially not one that's so expensive you'd want to return it.

They still don't do high clocks, but they ARE on a much newer (smaller) node. But they certainly didn't do that because people on the internet were complaining.

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15 minutes ago, Reppin513 said:

Nonetheless, here we are with thousands spent on highest end AM4 builds, waiting for the 3950x to launch; now stuck unable to return anything, as the wait was too long

Why would you ever buy anything for a new system before all of the parts you're planning to use are actually available? Where's the logic here? Run your current system till all of your new parts are readily available and then you have nothing to bitch about. These chips are going to be in high demand, you'd have to be a complete knuckle dragger not to realize this. The 3900X was very difficult to source for a while and then greater supply became available a month or so later, same story here. 

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I agree TSMC is better than GF. And I'm aware of the obligations of TSMC to many OEMs. A preorder that isnt broadcast to the world for a chip most suited to enthusiasts is all I suggested. I mean their own Notify me to purchase email redirected to a second notify to purchase form when you click buy now (within one second of receiving email). What CPU am I returning? To snag the best parts for a high end build you have to get them as soon as they drop. Which anyone planning a build for a year would do. It is simply a poorly executed launch in my eyes. Slow inventories is fine. How it was handled is not IMO.

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Calling people neanderthals is a bit extreme. If you wait the opposite happens, the other parts you need are not available. I mean throw the best chip in with whatever you can find if that's your thing.

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I wonder if the alienware prebuilts come out soon. Removing the 3950x and putting a 3900x in the prebuilt may be the only option. I see people saying wait for more inventory next year, though I have seen media saying there might not be any more down the road. Time will tell. Just trying to be on the right side of the future.

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5 minutes ago, QXC said:

But they certainly didn't do that because people on the internet were complaining.

complaints affect marketing though. GloFlo could just do what they did with 14nm, that's to buy the technology from someone else (Samsung in this case). But then 14nm and 12nm GloFlo sucks so much that 7nm GloFlo really dont pose any confidence to anyone. At least last time it managed to still be efficient when you dont clock high, but what if 7nm turns for the worst?

 

8 minutes ago, QXC said:

but they ARE on a much newer (smaller) node.

It could very well increase efficiency which servers and consoles would care a lot (and at the end of the day, the largest market).

 

6 minutes ago, Reppin513 said:

Which anyone planning a build for a year would do.

well than those "anyone" should stop preying for stuff at launch. Buying PC parts is not the same as buying posters of your favourite celebrity.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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27 minutes ago, Den-Fi said:

Perhaps one day they'll be the size of Intel and have their own fabs, but for now they're at the mercy of TSMC and have to wait in line for silicon. Sure they could sit and stockpile, which is what they did by pushing it back some, but at the end of the day, they can only make so many.

i mean even intel is having supply issues

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5 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

well than those "anyone" should stop preying for stuff at launch. Buying PC parts is not the same as buying posters of your favourite celebrity.

I'm not sure what that means. PC parts go together to make a system. posters are just paper. I don't see the analogy. And why celebrities? Who wants celebrities on their wall? Or posters for that matter.

 

Exclusive parts should still be purchasable to build a system. I could not have done any better attempting to get a 3950x today, yesterday, or any time previously this year. If they truly do release more this point is moot. From the bit I have heard there is uncertainty if more will come. (Yes I'm aware the UK sites say preordering for January now) I spoke to B&H Photo pre-release team today and was told there is zero communication from AMD on inventory, if any, to come and that is why they never took orders at all. I think it is fair to be skeptical at this point.

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14 minutes ago, Reppin513 said:

I'm not sure what that means. PC parts go together to make a system. posters are just paper. I don't see the analogy. And why celebrities? Who wants celebrities on their wall? Or posters for that matter.

arent you all about "people plan out their whole systems, but now left without a CPU because AMD delayed it and didnt have enough stock"?

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

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Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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29 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

complaints affect marketing though. GloFlo could just do what they did with 14nm, that's to buy the technology from someone else (Samsung in this case). But then 14nm and 12nm GloFlo sucks so much that 7nm GloFlo really dont pose any confidence to anyone. At least last time it managed to still be efficient when you dont clock high, but what if 7nm turns for the worst?

 

It could very well increase efficiency which servers and consoles would care a lot (and at the end of the day, the largest market).

The point being that semiconductor companies want their high performance parts to be on the smallest node possible by default. TSMC makes the smallest node, so that's where they go. Making chips faster and more efficient is what the company does by default, people on the internet have no influence on that.

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In all honesty, it is not like launch shortages are unheard of.  Who remembers the great Wii and PS3 shortages (or virtually any home console launch shortage back in the day?)  The Switch was the most recent example in non-PC tech and that was not long ago at all.  PC tech is certainly not immune and has its own examples as well (ex:  3900x.)

 

I'm was hoping that supply would be more robust and not just enough that a listing gets nuked within seconds, but I'm not really surprised.  In addition to the normal demands outstripping production (which everybody saw coming,) you have the fact that there is also a production choke point too that is out of AMD's control like everyone else has mentioned.  Hopefully, it will not take too long to recover from it.  If it does though, just going to have to wait like we used to have to in the old days.  Either that, or you just get lucky like I did with my PS3.  Walked into Wal-Mart, saw one of those fat launch systems in the case, heard a boy trying to get his Mom to buy it, I grabbed an employee, bought that bad boy, and crushed that little kid's dreams without remorse as I checked it out.  It may have been cruel, but I still slept like a baby that night.  The "I want it and demand it be delivered now" mentality that Amazon and others have helped cultivate in society has spoiled us all.  If you really just cannot wait or you are afraid that you will never get one, there is always eBay and the almighty price gouge.

 

Now that I have sounded like the old geezer who says how great the good old days were, please excuse me while I walk outside barefoot in waist deep snow to tell kids to get off my lawn.

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1 minute ago, QXC said:

The point being that semiconductor companies want their high performance parts to be on the smallest node possible by default. TSMC makes the smallest node, so that's where they go. Making chips faster and more efficient is what the company does by default, people on the internet have no influence on that.

Cost and supply are influencial, and performance is also what people on the internet are talking about. So far 7nm hasnt prove itself to faster than older architectures anyway, just more efficient. The rest can be accomplished by building the new architecture with larger nodes.

 

4 minutes ago, JB25304 said:

(or virtually any home console launch shortage back in the day?) 

PS Vita & Wii U

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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6 minutes ago, JB25304 said:

It may have been cruel, but I still slept like a baby that night.

 

If you really just cannot wait or you are afraid that you will never get one, there is always eBay and the almighty price gouge.

Don't Lie, you didn't sleep that night and neither did I or my friends.

 

If you have a line on a marked up new in box 3950x send it my way. I can't find a single one.

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31 minutes ago, Reppin513 said:

I'm not sure what that means. PC parts go together to make a system. posters are just paper. I don't see the analogy. And why celebrities? Who wants celebrities on their wall? Or posters for that matter.

 

Exclusive parts should still be purchasable to build a system. I could not have done any better attempting to get a 3950x today, yesterday, or any time previously this year. If they truly do release more this point is moot. From the bit I have heard there is uncertainty if more will come. (Yes I'm aware the UK sites say preordering for January now) I spoke to B&H Photo pre-release team today and was told there is zero communication from AMD on inventory, if any, to come and that is why they never took orders at all. I think it is fair to be skeptical at this point.

Why is it moot to buy it now or a month from now? You talk like the processor becomes useless the second it is released. It doesn't magically drop clock speeds or cores if it isn't put in a system day one. 

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Just now, Blue4130 said:

Why is it moot to buy it now or a month from now? You talk like the processor becomes useless the second it is released. It doesn't magically drop clock speeds or cores if it isn't put in a system day one. 

It's moot if more end up being sold. Rumor mill is there may not be more coming. Time will tell.

 

Obviously chips don't degrade under normal usage.

 

Though Zen 3 is next year, so how long the wait is might make it moot in another way.

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3 minutes ago, Reppin513 said:

Don't Lie, you didn't sleep that night and neither did I or my friends.

 

If you have a line on a marked up new in box 3950x send it my way. I can't find a single one.

Saw some on eBay earlier today.  Huge markup on them though.  Two for $1800 USD Buy It Now and one live auction already at $1000 USD, if I recall correctly.  My advice is to just keep checking all the sites.  I might have lucked into one out of sheer dumb luck (or divine intervention.)  I got an order to go through on Amazon during a very, very brief window by following the link from AMD's reseller page, which launched my Amazon app, and let me add it to the cart and complete the order.  Now that very same link doesn't even show you can add it to your cart.  Not going to celebrate just yet though since I have been a victim of the old Amazon "I'm sorry.  We ended up not having enough stock to fill your order so we canceled it" routine before.  If it does work out though, it will be just like the PS3 (except a tad more expensive.)  In the end though, I wouldn't pay $1800 for a $750 processor.  Once the initial wave of "I will buy anything no matter the cost" goes by, they will come back down into a much smaller markup (if the pattern of the 3900x holds for the 3950x.)

 

And I slept very soundly after staying up for hours playing Resistance that night. lol

 

6 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

PS Vita & Wii U

Hey, they can't all turn out to be gems lol

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2 minutes ago, JB25304 said:

Two for $1800 USD Buy It Now and one live auction already at $1000 USD, if I recall correctly. 

 

I got an order to go through on Amazon during a very, very brief window by following the link from AMD's reseller page, which launched my Amazon app, and let me add it to the cart and complete the order.  Now that very same link doesn't even show you can add it to your cart.  Not going to celebrate just yet though since I have been a victim of the old Amazon "I'm sorry.  We ended up not having enough stock to fill your order so we canceled it" routine before.

I dont mind markup. I don't want 2 though. I'm comfortable spending 1000 on it. I'll look after the gym.

 

I added one to cart right at 10am the second it let me, it wanted credentials. quickly entered them and then the cart was empty. It then blocked adding to cart for about an hour then completely unavailable. The micro center guy said bots insta buy them whatever that means. resellers? I mean i tried avery avenue. I think employees took stock at micro center. The GM said they had them, walked back and there were none. spent all morning trying every avenue at once.

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why tf do you need one RIGHT NOW?

 

 

chill out, god damn. The fact that you're willing to pay a grand on a chip instead of waiting a week for it to get back in stock for MSRP is just plain ridiculous.

Quote me to see my reply!

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I'm pretty sure the media outlets already commented on how they were having production troubles and that's why the launch already took so long.

There are only so many fabs, and only so much pie to go around.

 

It's funny, you make it seem like so many of us are sitting here waiting to build really high end AM4 rigs...when really, that's pretty far from reality. Aside from @Den-Fi who likely has a TR build for every room of his house, most people, here included, run the lower tier chips, because that's all we need. If you expand on that, you can check the Steam Hardware Survey and you'll find very few people run high end rigs.

 

I don't get where the stunt for good press comes from. How would this be that, when you yourself have stated it's bad?

 

It's interesting, as an investor one would think that you'd be more worried if they were having issues supplying the mid-range chips, like the Ryzen 5...considering that's their bread and butter, and where most of the sales are. If someone is after a very high end enthusiast chip, and that's the one they want, they're more likely to wait, unlike those who are shopping in the mid tier. The 3950x was never going to be a massive seller anyway, compared to the SKUs below it.

 

You'll regret giving away those shares.

 

1 hour ago, Den-Fi said:

Perhaps one day they'll be the size of Intel and have their own fabs, but for now they're at the mercy of TSMC and have to wait in line for silicon. Sure they could sit and stockpile, which is what they did by pushing it back some, but at the end of the day, they can only make so many.

One day they'll return to their former glory.

One day, in the distant future.

1 hour ago, Reppin513 said:

I understand, though it is crazy how few they seem to actually be shipping. I waited all day to post anything because I was fuming earlier. I just don't understand why they don't look out for their enthusiasts and have an organized preorder. anticipate estimated inventories, accept preorders, perhaps in waves of production, and the heartache is eased.

Ok, so you organize a preorder. How does that change anything about the supply issue? If you think they don't estimate inventory, then you have no idea how a large corporation works at all.

1 hour ago, Reppin513 said:

I agree TSMC is better than GF. And I'm aware of the obligations of TSMC to many OEMs. A preorder that isnt broadcast to the world for a chip most suited to enthusiasts is all I suggested. I mean their own Notify me to purchase email redirected to a second notify to purchase form when you click buy now (within one second of receiving email). What CPU am I returning? To snag the best parts for a high end build you have to get them as soon as they drop. Which anyone planning a build for a year would do. It is simply a poorly executed launch in my eyes. Slow inventories is fine. How it was handled is not IMO.

Have you any idea how much work that would be for them to implement? So, how long would you hold this CPU for this person before moving on to the next? An hour? Two? A day? It makes no sense.

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