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Cheap Samsung B-die?

Tan3l6
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Posted

I bought really cheap 16GB sticks from a local e-shop. Tried oc a bit, but I have some limitration either by motherboard or CPU that can't overclock 16GB sticks over 3200mhz

Anyway, when I opened Thaiphoon Burner, to my surprise the RAM is detected as Samsung B-Die. Could that be right?

32gb.png.e0a9f627dfda35fa8f5cacab2618d2fe.png

 

Sticks themselves are these: https://www.gskill.com/product/165/185/1567584071/F4-3200C16S-16GISAegis-DDR4DDR4-3200MHz-CL16-18-18-38-1.35V16GB-(1x16GB)

Cost around 122€  (2x16GB)

I edit my posts more often than not

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Posted

Complete PC specs?

Main System: Ryzen 2700, Asus Crosshair VII Hero, EVGA GTX 1080ti SC, 970 EVO Plus NVMe, Crucial Ballistix 3200mhz CL14, CM H500, CM ML240L cpu cooler.

Second System: Ryzen 2400G, Gigabyte B450 DS3H, RX 580 Nitro+, Kingston A400 SSD, Team T-Force 3200mhz CL15

If it ain't overclocked it ain't good...

 

AM4 boards VRM rating list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

Buildzoid's AM4 motherboard roundup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti38JS8RuPU

 

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Just now, Mathieu9836 said:

Complete PC specs?

In my profile.

6700K + GA-Z270X-Gaming K5 (rev. 1.0) are the other main parts.

I edit my posts more often than not

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What voltage did you try? Might simply be that it can't OC higher without additional voltage.

HAL9000: AMD Ryzen 9 3900x | Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black | 32 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz | Asus X570 Prime Pro | ASUS TUF 3080 Ti | 1 TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus + 1 TB Crucial MX500 + 6 TB WD RED | Corsair HX1000 | be quiet Pure Base 500DX | LG 34UM95 34" 3440x1440

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Carbon server: Fujitsu PRIMERGY RX100 S7p | Xeon E3-1230 v2 | 16 GB DDR3 ECC | 60 GB Corsair SSD & 250 GB Samsung 850 Pro | Intel i340-T4 | ESXi 6.5.1

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Posted
22 minutes ago, Tan3l6 said:

I bought really cheap 16GB sticks from a local e-shop. Tried oc a bit, but I have some limitration either by motherboard or CPU that can't overclock 16GB sticks over 3200mhz

Anyway, when I opened Thaiphoon Burner, for my surprise the RAM is detected as Samsung B-Die. Could that be right?

32gb.png.e0a9f627dfda35fa8f5cacab2618d2fe.png

 

Sticks themselves are these: https://www.gskill.com/product/165/185/1567584071/F4-3200C16S-16GISAegis-DDR4DDR4-3200MHz-CL16-18-18-38-1.35V16GB-(1x16GB)

Cost around 122€  (16x2GB)

did you try to increase the voltage?

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Posted

Why can't you overclock it to more then 3200mhz? It does not post? You cant input anything more then 3200mhz? It's crashing? need more info on what you have tried and what doesnt work other then it wont go passed 3200mhz.

Main System: Ryzen 2700, Asus Crosshair VII Hero, EVGA GTX 1080ti SC, 970 EVO Plus NVMe, Crucial Ballistix 3200mhz CL14, CM H500, CM ML240L cpu cooler.

Second System: Ryzen 2400G, Gigabyte B450 DS3H, RX 580 Nitro+, Kingston A400 SSD, Team T-Force 3200mhz CL15

If it ain't overclocked it ain't good...

 

AM4 boards VRM rating list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

Buildzoid's AM4 motherboard roundup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti38JS8RuPU

 

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15 minutes ago, jj9987 said:

What voltage did you try? Might simply be that it can't OC higher without additional voltage.

Tried 1,42V no luck

 

12 minutes ago, Mathieu9836 said:

Why can't you overclock it to more then 3200mhz? It does not post? You cant input anything more then 3200mhz? It's crashing? need more info on what you have tried and what doesnt work other then it wont go passed 3200mhz.

It will post @3600Mhz, but BIOS is honest - it actually runs at 3200Mhz

Have had quite a few 32GB kits, rarely they post at even 3200Mhz'

 

Anyway, haven't had a RAM that has thermal sensors, before.

I edit my posts more often than not

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Posted

I know Ryzen as VSOC but Intel as two other voltage settings you might want to take a look at. What about those timings? I know B-die scale very well with voltage, so i'm not worried about increasing it up to 2volts to test it, but you might not want to run it daily at that voltage.

Main System: Ryzen 2700, Asus Crosshair VII Hero, EVGA GTX 1080ti SC, 970 EVO Plus NVMe, Crucial Ballistix 3200mhz CL14, CM H500, CM ML240L cpu cooler.

Second System: Ryzen 2400G, Gigabyte B450 DS3H, RX 580 Nitro+, Kingston A400 SSD, Team T-Force 3200mhz CL15

If it ain't overclocked it ain't good...

 

AM4 boards VRM rating list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

Buildzoid's AM4 motherboard roundup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti38JS8RuPU

 

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Well searching by "K4A8G085WB-BCPB" it seems this is some kind of cheap version B-Die.

And 2 volts seems a bit much, as there is no point of trying to break the thermal records, even if for a short period.

Anyway, DDR4 seems to be getting very cheap, again.

I edit my posts more often than not

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Have you tinkered with VCCSA and VCCIO? Might help the memory controller to handle faster memory speed.

Main System: Ryzen 2700, Asus Crosshair VII Hero, EVGA GTX 1080ti SC, 970 EVO Plus NVMe, Crucial Ballistix 3200mhz CL14, CM H500, CM ML240L cpu cooler.

Second System: Ryzen 2400G, Gigabyte B450 DS3H, RX 580 Nitro+, Kingston A400 SSD, Team T-Force 3200mhz CL15

If it ain't overclocked it ain't good...

 

AM4 boards VRM rating list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

Buildzoid's AM4 motherboard roundup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti38JS8RuPU

 

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11 minutes ago, Mathieu9836 said:

Have you tinkered with VCCSA and VCCIO? Might help the memory controller to handle faster memory speed.

No such options.

 

Under DRAM voltage settings there are DRAM Voltage, DDRVPP and DRAM Termination. Tried increasing the latter two by about 20% - no difference. Double sided DRAM won't ever go over 3200Mhz on this MoBo.

I edit my posts more often than not

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2T? You can increase DRAM termination resistance, it help with signal integrity but usually its a very fast frequency thing.

VCCSA and VCCIO are not on the RAM setting tab, i think it's somewhere else like CPU tab.

 

I'm not Intel CPU expert, just trying the best i an to help lol

Main System: Ryzen 2700, Asus Crosshair VII Hero, EVGA GTX 1080ti SC, 970 EVO Plus NVMe, Crucial Ballistix 3200mhz CL14, CM H500, CM ML240L cpu cooler.

Second System: Ryzen 2400G, Gigabyte B450 DS3H, RX 580 Nitro+, Kingston A400 SSD, Team T-Force 3200mhz CL15

If it ain't overclocked it ain't good...

 

AM4 boards VRM rating list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

Buildzoid's AM4 motherboard roundup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti38JS8RuPU

 

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On 11/11/2019 at 8:21 PM, Mathieu9836 said:

2T? You can increase DRAM termination resistance, it help with signal integrity but usually its a very fast frequency thing.

VCCSA and VCCIO are not on the RAM setting tab, i think it's somewhere else like CPU tab.

 

I'm not Intel CPU expert, just trying the best i an to help lol

Yeah, 2T. Setting it 1T it only boots just around 3066Mhz 

Found those VCCSA and VCCIO voltage Intel equivalents from CPU voltage settings but fiddling with them brought no luck of lowering timings nor overclocking with looser timings.

Also it's painfully slow to boot new RAM settings, so I'm calling it quits. But perhaps on another platform it will OC, well, at all.

I edit my posts more often than not

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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted

Hello there. I'm having similar issues.

Recently I purchased G.Skill F4-3200C16D-16GTZRX, and it turns out it's Samsung B-Die.

It runs well on b450 boards, but it doesn't run well on my B350-F Strix paired with Ryzen 7 1700.
If i just set DOCP profile it boots, but TestMem5 shows lots of errors. I've managed to get it to have less errors but never to be without errors. The closest I ever was, was when I didn't use DOCP settings but rather manually adjust timings, voltages. Still hasn't gotten me where I want. 
It runs perfectly fine with DOCP at 3000MHz CL16, but I want them to run at 3200MHz CL16.
Tried everything, DRAM calculator, timings I got from other motherboards when i just used DOCP/XMP profile, none of those was stable.
I read that ProcODT helps a lot, i tried messing with it, but didn't solve the issue.
Each time i mess with CAD resistance(ohms), my pc wont boot. It restarts, then screen is black and nothing happens so I have to clear CMOS.

Went all the way to 1.52v on ram, didn't help. I used SOC voltage 1.15-1.2, did help to lessen the errors but still there were a dozen errors.
I'm running them at 3000MHz CL16 now, but if someone could help me/us out here, it'd be nice.
Good luck to the thread starter btw.
Cheers.
Alex

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First gen Ryzen's are known to have issues with memory speed, maybe you could look to update the bios of you board to the latest BEFORE it was updated for Ryzen second gen.

Main System: Ryzen 2700, Asus Crosshair VII Hero, EVGA GTX 1080ti SC, 970 EVO Plus NVMe, Crucial Ballistix 3200mhz CL14, CM H500, CM ML240L cpu cooler.

Second System: Ryzen 2400G, Gigabyte B450 DS3H, RX 580 Nitro+, Kingston A400 SSD, Team T-Force 3200mhz CL15

If it ain't overclocked it ain't good...

 

AM4 boards VRM rating list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

Buildzoid's AM4 motherboard roundup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti38JS8RuPU

 

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  • 5 months later...
Posted (edited)
On 12/8/2019 at 3:25 PM, Mathieu9836 said:

First gen Ryzen's are known to have issues with memory speed, maybe you could look to update the bios of you board to the latest BEFORE it was updated for Ryzen second gen.

Sorry for a late reply, I just gave up on it but recently picked it up again after this latest bios update 5406.
How do I even find out which one was the last BIOS update before 2nd gen ryzen update? =/
I apologize for reviving this old thread, but I'd rather post here than open a new thread.


Edit: I found the answer. Just browsed the list of all BIOS updates for my motherboard and just chose the one before the version with description "Update for upcoming ryzen procesors".

I have another question. In case this doesn't solve my issue, what do you think is better, getting a new motherboard or getting a new CPU?
For example should I get b450 board, like MSi B450 Tomahawk Max or should I get Ryzen 5 3600? What do you think is more important for this?
Logically it's better to get a new CPU since i'll gain cpu performance boost with ryzen 5 3600, but will that be important for RAM as much as the new motherboard? Thank you for your time and help. :)
I'll try to sell my old motherboard or cpu.
 

Edited by napstericious
found the answer to my question but now I have another question
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  • 6 months later...
Posted

Just a small correction since I've seem on this forum and on various other forums that the "K4A8G085WB-BCPB" is a "Cheap samsung b-die variant". People mentioned it on Reddit and other forums such as overclockers mentioning that this is a "cheap", "worst performing", "bad" or "budget" Samsung B-Die Variant.
It is definitely not since I have a G. Skill TridentZ Royal Gold kit that is 4800C18 out of the box (XMP). And it holds exactly the K4A8G085WB-BCPB as its component. B-die / 20nm.
We can't call the K4A8G085WB-BCPB a "budget" or "low end" b-die variant at all.

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6 minutes ago, GothicLolita said:


We can't call the K4A8G085WB-BCPB a "budget" or "low end" b-die variant at all.

That's just the Samsung part number. 

 

But has nothing to do with binning the modules.

 

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14 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

That's just the Samsung part number. 

 

But has nothing to do with binning the modules.

 

I think you didn't get my point.
People are seeing the part number K4A8G085WB-BCPB and they think it is a "low tier b-die" code. And that all dimms containing K4A8G085WB-BCPB are low end b-dies, and that "the true bdie" lies under a different part number.

Why I say that? I am always trading in some pieces of hardware, ram, gpu, cpus, etc... And I have a whole bunch of friends and 'enthusiasts' are googling the samsung internal part number mentioned and are coming to the conclusion that K4A8G085WB-BCPB equals "low end b-die" "poor quality". And that there is a "magic b-die part number" that will definitely overclock better than others. And what I mentioned is, my 4800@CL18-XMP has the exact same part number, and it is a "native" 4800CL18 that works at 4800@CL17 with no issues.

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3 hours ago, GothicLolita said:

I think you didn't get my point.
People are seeing the part number K4A8G085WB-BCPB and they think it is a "low tier b-die" code. And that all dimms containing K4A8G085WB-BCPB are low end b-dies, and that "the true bdie" lies under a different part number.

Why I say that? I am always trading in some pieces of hardware, ram, gpu, cpus, etc... And I have a whole bunch of friends and 'enthusiasts' are googling the samsung internal part number mentioned and are coming to the conclusion that K4A8G085WB-BCPB equals "low end b-die" "poor quality". And that there is a "magic b-die part number" that will definitely overclock better than others. And what I mentioned is, my 4800@CL18-XMP has the exact same part number, and it is a "native" 4800CL18 that works at 4800@CL17 with no issues.

Right. I was in agreement with you. :)

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