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Greed may kill the Streaming star. (You know, how video killed the radeo star)

Edward78

https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/too-many-streaming-services-new-consumer-study-finds I think they need to have a system like cable/sat. accept all be ale cart, buy a provider or what ever you want to call it, but the package is empty & them you can put in whatever you want paying some amount for each. All the apps are out there already, so it wouldn't be that hard.

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I really do not understand WHY companies are so goddamned stubborn in not wanting to allow Ala Carte ordering of entertainment.

 

Cable and Satellite TV providers refused to do it for the longest time, and apparently the same type of morons have moved to the streaming industry.

 

WHY? Just let me pay to watch the shows I actually care about. I don't care about your other shows damnit.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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13 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I really do not understand WHY companies are so goddamned stubborn in not wanting to allow Ala Carte ordering of entertainment.

 

Cable and Satellite TV providers refused to do it for the longest time, and apparently the same type of morons have moved to the streaming industry.

 

WHY? Just let me pay to watch the shows I actually care about. I don't care about your other shows damnit.

Yes, it sucks when you want 1 more network & you have to jump to the $70 pack. I had hopes the Streaming ind. would save us, but everyone having their own app. & it costing for each app. you might as well stay with sat/cable. Hey you will pay to much, but you can't accidentally go over your data cap.

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10 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

really do not understand WHY companies are so goddamned stubborn in not wanting to allow Ala Carte ordering of entertainment.

 

Cable and Satellite TV providers refused to do it for the longest time,

Because cable and Satellite tv providers have to purchase their content from the major networks.  When they ask to buy espn they not only just buy espn but are forced to buy a package of other shows with espn.  They don't get to buy ala carte so neither does the end consumer.

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1 minute ago, Beowulff83 said:

Because cable and Satellite tv providers have to purchase their content from the major networks.  When they ask to buy espn they not only just buy espn but are forced to buy a package of other shows with espn.  They don't get to buy ala carte so neither does the end consumer.

That's kind of retarded.

 

And they wonder why Piracy is still a thing.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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17 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

That's kind of retarded.

 

And they wonder why Piracy is still a thing.

Yes, you think they could negotiate, plus you know the packs are prob. a lot cheaper for them, their greedy hands just want a lot more.

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2 minutes ago, Edward78 said:

Yes, you think they could negotiate, plus you know the pacls are prob. a lot cheaper for them, their greedy hands just want a lot more.

They negotiate all the time, when it fails is when you lose certain channels and you see add campaigns telling you to contact your provider to yell at them. 

 

Of course cab/sat providers are greedy also, they wan't their cut too lol. 

 

I do know for at least the cable industry they are now looking hard if offering tv is worth it anymore.  The profit margin for tv is at an all time low combined with losing  at ton of tv subscribers yearly to streaming services. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

WHY? Just let me pay to watch the shows I actually care about. I don't care about your other shows damnit.

That is exactly the point why they won´t do it. They want you to pay for all their stuff not just one show

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41 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I really do not understand WHY companies are so goddamned stubborn in not wanting to allow Ala Carte ordering of entertainment.

Because current copyright laws allow them complete control on their "properties" and if they even suspect they're not getting as much money for them as they theoretically could they'll just give you the middle finger. If you want to access their media (legally at least) you have to abide by their terms with no recourse. In my opinion this is a crime against art, but ideals aside there are very clear practical consequences such as this one.

33 minutes ago, Beowulff83 said:

Because cable and Satellite tv providers have to purchase their content from the major networks.  When they ask to buy espn they not only just buy espn but are forced to buy a package of other shows with espn.  They don't get to buy ala carte so neither does the end consumer.

They could buy the "pack" and give you a la carte access if they wanted to, they'd just make less money if they did. Or at least, that's what they think.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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1 hour ago, Trik'Stari said:

Cable and Satellite TV providers refused to do it for the longest time, and apparently the same type of morons have moved to the streaming industry.

 

Its due to the agreements made with the broadcasters. For example if you want the Disney channel, you are REQURIRED to offer ESPN on the lowest cable tier. Thats how Disney does it. Cable Co's DONT make the rules. This is why you can just pick your channels. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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3 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I really do not understand WHY companies are so goddamned stubborn in not wanting to allow Ala Carte ordering of entertainment.

 

Cable and Satellite TV providers refused to do it for the longest time, and apparently the same type of morons have moved to the streaming industry.

 

WHY? Just let me pay to watch the shows I actually care about. I don't care about your other shows damnit.

simple

more money = more profit

why buy a single can when you have to buy a 12 pack

not that hard to figure out!

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it already has with everyone and their mom starting their own streaming service 

 

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5 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I really do not understand WHY companies are so goddamned stubborn in not wanting to allow Ala Carte ordering of entertainment.

 

Cable and Satellite TV providers refused to do it for the longest time, and apparently the same type of morons have moved to the streaming industry.

 

WHY? Just let me pay to watch the shows I actually care about. I don't care about your other shows damnit.

 

I think the problem is the "a la carte" is not the correct model. It would have been the correct model had the broadcast and cable industry did it 15 years ago. It's too late now.

 

Let's look at this from a purely ecological and economical model.

 

If I divide my video up into time slots, and broadcast them at those time slots, I only have to pay for that data and energy cost once. 

 

If I let users VOD only video I have rights to, it costs me data every time I let them see it, but it costs me nothing to licence it

 

If I let users who are not on my cable/dsl/fiber network watch content from a competitor content provider, I have to pay that competitor for the data, but the licencing issue is left to the user.

 

In a perfect system, and I mean, perfectly flawless system. There would be no "TV" channels" and no "streaming services", what there would instead be is a peer-to-peer hierarchy, think of it as if Original flavor Napster and BitTorrent were functioning together. The DRM would be little more than the "title key" system currently used by BD. Buy the key once, watch any version of that video with the same title key. If pirates want to share it around, it only serves to make the video cheaper to access. I'll address the DRM later.

 

So what you have are "distribution" nodes, and "service nodes". Distribution nodes are where the video/content libraries are actually held. Disney, Warner, Sony, Cartoon Network, Toei, etc. So the companies build a distribution node, throw all their content onto it, each title gets a distribution key and a title key. If you have a distribution key, you can pull this content from the distribution node to any service node, so ISP's all get the distribution key for that company. The purpose of this key is to ensure the titles haven't been damaged in transfer, and that they match what the distributor had intended to distribute. If the distributor wants to make stupid per-isp/per-region distribution keys so dubbing/subtitles are released to the right regions, go right ahead. 

 

End users connect to their ISP's service node, and request a title by using the title key they purchased/rented/etc. The ISP service node will check it's library for the title, and if it's not available, it will then pull it from the distribution node using the distribution key. If the ISP goes "sorry dude, your title is in another castle", then the player switches to the Peer-to-Peer mode. The peer-to-peer mode will ask other machines on the ISP if it has the title, and if someone has the title, it will ask if it can retrieve it (eg do you have Xmbps of upstream bandwidth available? Y/N), once the user on the same ISP gets the title, now anyone else who asks for that title on the ISP's local node can get it as well. As long as they haven't deleted it themselves. If there are multiple people who want it, then it becomes even less expensive to distribute.

 

This leads to the light DRM scheme. Now in theory, if you buy a title, both the distribution and the ISP will know that you bought it already, and the title key will remain in the secure enclave so that it never has to ask for it again. If you switch devices and don't migrate the keys, then you can contact the ISP or the Distribution node operator to get the keys again. Content would only have one key per title, otherwise there would be no bandwidth being conserved. You just have to be realistic and realize that the title keys are little more than a UPC code.

 

So let's use the edge cases that come up:

1) I want to watch something that was only released in X region, and there is unlikely to ever be a localized release (eg anime, foreign films, etc)

 

The device would query the ISP and go "do you have (title key)" , the ISP would go "sorry, I do not", your device would then query others on the same ISP node, other nodes on the ISP, and then outside-network nodes until it can find that title key. So let's say it was some anime title. Naturally this title will not have english subtitles or english audio, so the player will go "found (title) matching with key, it does not have (english) as an available language, continue?", and thus you can just buy the raw source directly, even if you have to get that title key through some third party in Japan. Now how do you get the English audio or subtitles if there is no licence to it? You don't. However your player may permit the use of third party subtitle files. Since the title key never changes, that means that the subtitles will always work with that title key. Even if they're fansubs.

 

If someone wants a 4K version and someone wants a 480p version, the same title key would work on both. It might just be harder to find a 480p version.

 

2) Live streams

Now the reason streaming is popular right now is that it allows for realtime engagement with the streamer. Now clearly this is going to burn a lot of peoples bandwidth if poorly organized. So how this in theory works.

- Distribution node flags that the video is a live broadcast, if a title key matches a live broadcast, the service node would not retrieve a copy of the broadcast, but rather create a relay buffer for each streaming endpoint (eg 4K, 1080p, 720p, 480p.) 

- If a live broadcast can not be connected to via service nodes, the P2P nodes certainly will self-organize themselves so that it's as flat as possible and thus people only end up with maybe 1 second of latency per node it goes through. There is no re-encoding by peer nodes.

 

3) Delta streams

 

So let's say that that anime title in 1 was later released with an English audio track and subtitles. Instead of downloading the ENTIRE thing again, a delta stream with just the audio and subtitles is created and uses the same title key. So your ISP might start carrying that title key, but it unlocks the raw source and the delta stream. You have to stream/download both.

 

Now of course we could dispense with the "title key" altogether, but then we're still going to be dealing with some kind of hashing system to ensure that content is being played back with the right pieces. Hence in this case the DRM is really just acting as a way to make sure the the right pieces can be played together. It ALSO ensures that you only need to purchase the title once, and not repeatedly when the distributor decides to add something to the previously released title.

 

If you have a hard drive, you can freely download everything you have a title key to, and the title key will simply not be stored on that device. You can take all those videos to another device, lend them to someone, but they can only play it if their playback device has the title key in the secure enclave. Nothing more complicated. The distributor keys for lack of a better description, only create an envelope between the distributor and the service nodes, the the distributor key is not copied to the users, because the distributor only cares about carrying the title-key'd data, not what's inside it, so it doesn't decode the title keys. The end users decode the title key at playback. 

 

In practice. The streaming environment right now is so utterly wasteful in bandwidth and CPU time due to the need of per-stream encryption, that I can predict "the end of the internet" will likely be people going back to physical media (as in USB drives) to avoid the bottlenecks. Encryption that changes per user, is wasteful, and utterly useless when not dealing with people's private information. Watching a video is not a "private information" and the amount of effort made in trying to tie individuals to pieces of content is rather alarming.

 

 

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VPNs are really cheap now days. I paid $30 for 2 years

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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5 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

VPNs are really cheap now days. I paid $30 for 2 years

Yeah, but many streaming services are blocking them. Due to users using them to violate Geolocking. Netflix actively blocks VPN providers, so it might one one day, but the next your VPN cant access jack shit. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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9 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

VPNs are really cheap now days. I paid $30 for 2 years

why not use free proton vpn?

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1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Yeah, but many streaming services are blocking them. Due to users using them to violate Geolocking. Netflix actively blocks VPN providers, so it might one one day, but the next your VPN cant access jack shit. 

Not what I was getting at lol. 

1 hour ago, amdorintel said:

why not use free proton vpn?

Because it costs money to run things so you are the product being sold. AKA all your data is now being sifted through and sold to some chinese conglomerate 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 hour ago, amdorintel said:

why not use free proton vpn?

i dont trust a free vpn.

 

i subscribe to the "if your not paying for a product, you are the product" mentality

🌲🌲🌲

 

 

 

◒ ◒ 

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5 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Not what I was getting at lol. 

Because it costs money to run things so you are the product being sold. AKA all your data is now being sifted through and sold to some chinese conglomerate 

I know what you're getting at and I don't blame you one bit. These telecom companies have been out of control for years and now they're just bitching instead of actually going about improving their services. I stick with Netflix, Prime, and I get Hulu for free. Anything else I'm interested in I look elsewhere.  

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6 hours ago, amdorintel said:

simple

more money = more profit

why buy a single can when you have to buy a 12 pack

not that hard to figure out!

But it's not more money, it's less. Because you alienate more customers and charge more money to fewer customers, because you've lowered the value proposition. This is like what Spotify talked about doing in demanding users location data because, according to them, family members aren't family members if they don't live in the same household.

 

It's asinine and idiotic, and only justifiable if you're stupid enough to think that governments can actually prevent piracy to the extent that pissing off your entire userbase is a good idea.

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

-holy-crap-snip

You've just described a monopoly that will never exist because it would benefit customers more than corporations, who are idiots and thus are a perfect explanation of why piracy is a thing.

 

At this point, I'd rather pirate or flat out purchase entire seasons of a show, standalone, than pay for any streaming service.

 

Example: I own all three season of The Expanse, and I plan on buying the 4th. I actually own many movies on Amazon's Prime Video.

 

I don't mind buying a product, but give me a goddamned reasonable price for that product and that product alone. Let me download a local copy of JUST. THAT. PRODUCT. Because streaming services are often shit.

 

Hell, I have trouble with Funimation's streaming service and I have legit GIGABIT internet. It still takes fucking forever to buffer and frequently interrupts my viewing to buffer.

 

Hell, give me a temporary zip file that my hardware can unzip and transcode AS I WATCH. That would function more effectively.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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28 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Not what I was getting at lol. 

Because it costs money to run things so you are the product being sold. AKA all your data is now being sifted through and sold to some chinese conglomerate 

what about making your own vpn?

probably costs more huh

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1 minute ago, amdorintel said:

if it was more money they'd do it

plus their are laws that need to be followed

Laws that are, and always will be, easily circumvented.

 

And there would be more money there, they just don't like the amount and for some idiotic reason think they can get a bigger amount by being complete fucking assholes about it.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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3 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Laws that are, and always will be, easily circumvented.

depends on what laws you are talking about

Canada has laws in place for Canadian content, that is why on the radio you hear The Tragically Hip 8000 times a day within a 24 hour period on one radio station.

 

who knows what fcc laws are in place

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