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Hold out for AM5?

Friends,

 

I am a long time lurker. This will be my first post. I am stuck in a conundrum. Please help.

 

It took me 3 years of saving money to rack up about 3k for a PC build. I was planning on purchasing a RTX 2080TI with a 9900k. Top line stuff. Considering im not a rich man, it is a significant investment on my end.

 

Then Zen 2 came out, and that CPU switched to a 3900x. But now the entire system, 4 years of planning and 3 years of saving, are all thrown in doubt.

 

Recently on Awesome Hardware (Paul and Kyle's Show) they talked about rumors for NVIDIA's RTX 3000 series GPU perhaps coming in 2020. Sure, I dont mind, I can hold out. I dont take stock in rumors all too often, and I dont mind sticking with a 2080TI. It was the 2nd part, AMD's roadmap, that really threw me for a loop.

 

Ryzens 4000 is slated for "Early 2020", granted, it will be an APU, but come summer a CPU will be released, according to Lisa Su. it will be backwards compatible with AM4, which is nice. This will be Zen 2 still.

 

If you piece the roadmap together, Zen 3-4, it should come out either mid 2021 or late 2021. Here is where it gets tricky- it is fully expected, with the age of AM4, and the size of chips decreasing, Zen 4 should be on AM5.

 

Which, if correctly assumed, be compatible with the next few years cpus that come out.

 

I generally dont trust rumors, but if you cobble together ddr5, Nvidia 3000's and now AM5, one would find waiting is incredibly appetizing.

 

So here is my question. Should I hinge my bets on rumors? Should I buy a, say 3700x, and a RTX 2060, then rebuild my savings for the next 2 years? Or should I just purchase my 3900x and AM4 and be done with it? This build will be for general and recreational purposes, and while my current laptop has put me through college, the old girl is gonna die soon.

 

What do I do?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

tl;dr: Should I wait for AM5 or just bite the bullet on 3900X?

 

Links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q2H4aWS0xg

 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-ryzen-4000-early-2020-renoir-apu

 

EDIT**: Thanks for the input guys. I didnt even think about the first few iterations will be buggy. I think Ill settle with a RTX 2070S and a 3900x. I love this forum and you guys are awesome. Thanks!

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If you keep up this train of thought you'll never buy a PC. The next best thing is always on the horizon. Buy the best PC you can right now, and you'll likely be very happy with it for quite a while. I don't think we'll see any more huge performance jumps with our current silicon based PC's.

Desktop: i9 11900k, 32GB DDR4, 4060 Ti 8GB 🙂

 

 

 

 

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First, if you aren't wealthy you should never buy the most expensive hardware just because you can, just like new Astons, Ferraris, and Lamborghinis they devalue harder and faster then anything, while more moderately priced stuff (lets say a BMW or a Lexus for analogies sake) doesn't cost as much and holds more of its value.  Im including capability into some of this value, rather then just resale $.  So in your orginal case a 8-core CPU, even if at 5ghz, may not be that big of a deal if its on old architecture with lots of security issue patches hindering its performance (9900k) in a few years.  Likewise it may not be cheaper but a 12-core 39000 probably will continue to increase in what its capable of as more programs and games start using more threads/cores. 

So far as AMD vs Intel? AMD will probably continue to lead for next few years, and investing in cores will likely be a good bet, but there is a decent chance now that they have 'Mindshare' (consumers actually respect, want, admire AMD) they may start jacking up prices and your return on investment will shrink.  I state the notion of them jacking up prices based off 3rd gen Threadripped prices, there is other evidence of it very recently but won't go into that.

You seem to really want a RTX card for whatever reason, i would say its probably better to wait till next generation, even on a 2080TI the tensor cores aren't beefy enough to actually utilize the rest of the graphics core, and you just end up with half baked performance running with RTX-On at the moment.  Id get a RTX 2070(Super) or 5700(XT) (id steer clear of the 2060s, they are a ripoff) and wait for next gen RTX if that is your concern.  Or if you really want to minmax, and are hellbent on Nvidea, get a 1660 Super and wait for next gen, its more then enough for high refresh 1080p medium-high (depending on refresh rate desired), if you wanna super-duper minmax get a 120$ rx570 and save ALL that money for next gen graphics, that thing can still do higher refresh 1080p on mix low-medium settings

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56 minutes ago, Brown_Thunder said:

waiting

you will always be waiting for the next "new" "best" components to come out

best to buy now, or wait until new gen has been out for a little bit and buy right then!

like when the 1400 and 1600 ryzen came out, buy a good mobo, and cheap out on the cpu and buy one stick of good 8gb ram

then later, buy another stick of 8gb ram and save for a better cpu, sell old cpu

 

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Just now, Xiee said:

Don't wait. Buy what you can for what you need right now. 

best to fling money at certain components of a build, and cheap out on other aspects

as mentioned earlier

 

but ya dont wait, otherwise be always playing the game "what if"

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7 minutes ago, Xiee said:

Don't wait. Buy what you can for what you need right now. 

I'd agree on CPUs, but on GPUs, especially since he really seems to want a RTX card eventually, id highly recommend waiting. 

Even on a 2080TI the tensor cores aren't beefy enough to actually utilize the rest of the graphics core, and you just end up with half baked performance running with RTX-On at the moment.  Id get a RTX 2070(Super) or 5700(XT) (id steer clear of the 2060s, they are a ripoff) and wait for next gen RTX if that is your concern. 

If you really want to kinda minmax but be happy for awhile, and are hellbent on Nvidea, get a 1660 Super and wait for next gen, its more then enough for high refresh 1080p medium-high (depending on refresh rate desired),
If you wanna go super-duper minmax get a 120$ rx570 and save ALL that money for next gen graphics, that thing can still do higher refresh 1080p on mix low settings(high textures) 120hz-ish for most games

If RTX actually does become a big universal thing, any of the 2000 series cards are going to look silly in a couple years, for that reason i think its better to just ignore RTX on the 2000 series, or buy a card thats reasonable value like the 2070S if you want to dip your toes into it here and there right now

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Maybe wait that long and get AM4 so by that time all the bugs will be ironed out with it XD

 

I kid, honestly same as everyone above waiting is silly.  The next ryzen will be killer Im sure, and by that time intel might muster something up to at least compete with the value.

 

But with the options right now, a high end PC built right now will last you a long time.  3700x and above will be good CPU options for a good time

 

When I was in school, the best I could afford was an i5 3350 and a GTX 970.  That rig lasted me for years able to play whatever game I wanted (albeit not 4k ultra!), and did what I needed it to.  A pimped out AM4 set up will serve you well for many years.

 

Now on the topic of GPU, I feel mixed.  If AMD actually does something relevant at the high end, we could finally see reasonable prices at the halo end.  2080ti has some good punching power, but still overpriced.  If Nvidia make a better GPU without AMD competition at the top end, you're looking at even more expensive.  On the plus side, it is much easier to put a GPU on ebay (I have sold I think 4 no problem at this point), and swap out for a better one (compared to CPU/mobo swapping).  

 

If you have funds for a 3900x and a good GPU (2080 or higher) that will be a good CPU for a while

 

 

El Zoido:  9900k + RTX 4090 / 32 gb 3600mHz RAM / z390 Aorus Master 

 

The Box:  3900x + RTX 3080 /  32 gb 3000mHz RAM / B550 MSI mortar 

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What use will the machine be put to?  Just gaming and low power requirement stuff or something like industrial video editing?

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Honestly speaking, 3k isn't that much for really top tier hardware, so.......I'd suggest you compromise a little. Now, about Ampere, latest rumor I'd heard about it is that it might be delayed till later part of 2020, even perhaps early 2021, hence the leaked rumor of an RTX 2080 Ti Super (I think using an RTX Titan core with less memory). Not 100% sure about this though, so it'd be prudent for you to look it up.

 

As for longevity, IF you're like me and believe that the more cores (at decent or good enough IPC's each) would help in prolonging the longevity of a system, then a 3900X/3950X would be the CPU to consider. I built an Intel i7 3960X rig back in late 2011, early 2012, and I can game pretty well on that rig even up to today (my caveat is, I play SP FPS games mostly, so I can't comment on its MP/online gameplay). Yes, I did have to upgrade GPU's along the way, started with 2x R9 290X to dual GTX Titan tothe present VEGA64. Sure, if you can wait, then next year's Zen 2+/Zen 3 would be even better......but, that could mean that you could save a fair bit as the present Zen 2 CPU's might see a good price drop (much like the Zen+ 2xxx series now), so it's your choice. 

 

But as usual, what's the purpose of this new rig for, gaming only? Some productivity work? What's the ratio of game/productivity usage like?

Main Rig: AMD AM4 R9 5900X (12C/24T) + Tt Water 3.0 ARGB 360 AIO | Gigabyte X570 Aorus Xtreme | 2x 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3600C16 | XFX MERC 310 RX 7900 XTX | 256GB Sabrent Rocket NVMe M.2 PCIe Gen 3.0 (OS) | 4TB Lexar NM790 NVMe M.2 PCIe4x4 | 2TB TG Cardea Zero Z440 NVMe M.2 PCIe Gen4x4 | 4TB Samsung 860 EVO SATA SSD | 2TB Samsung 860 QVO SATA SSD | 6TB WD Black HDD | CoolerMaster H500M | Corsair HX1000 Platinum | Topre Type Heaven + Seenda Ergonomic W/L Vertical Mouse + 8BitDo Ultimate 2.4G | iFi Micro iDSD Black Label | Philips Fidelio B97 | C49HG90DME 49" 32:9 144Hz Freesync 2 | Omnidesk Pro 2020 48" | 64bit Win11 Pro 23H2

2nd Rig: AMD AM4 R9 3900X + TR PA 120 SE | Gigabyte X570S Aorus Elite AX | 2x 16GB Patriot Viper Elite II DDR4 4000MHz | Sapphire Nitro+ RX 6900 XT | 500GB Crucial P2 Plus NVMe M.2 PCIe Gen 4.0 (OS)2TB Adata Legend 850 NVMe M.2 PCIe Gen4x4 |  2TB Kingston NV2 NVMe M.2 PCIe Gen4x4 | 4TB Leven JS600 SATA SSD | 2TB Seagate HDD | Keychron K2 + Logitech G703 | SOLDAM XR-1 Black Knight | Enermax MAXREVO 1500 | 64bit Win11 Pro 23H2

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm holding out for AM5, as I want to avoid the sin I committed last time I built a desktop PC - buying a motherboard with no real upgrade path.

 

In January 2015, I built an LGA1150 system, with an ASRock Z97 Extreme6 and an Intel Core i7-4790K.  Besides the dead-end socket (5775C doesn't count), it doesn't support registered ECC (and even if it did, still is too limited on max RAM capacity), has way too few PCIe x16 slots, some PCIe, M.2 & SATA ports have shared bandwidth (and can't be populated simultaneously) and was too expensive for what it was.

 

Same happened with my laptop.  Got a Clevo P750DM-G with 1st-gen LGA1151 and Z170 chipset.  Started with an i3-6100 then 11 months later upgraded to a same-generation i7-6700K.  I've never seen an official BIOS update, not even for Kaby Lake or Spectre fix, and as for a 9900 / 9900T or 10900 / 10900T? FUGGEDABOUTIT!

 

I want a motherboard with a socket that will outlast a few Seasonic Prime PSUs (consecutive, not concurrent, and no in-warranty failures), and supports future CPUs that are several hundred times (not percent) faster than whatever the first generation is.

 

Also, a 250X (two hundred fifty TIMES) or more price/performance boost over my 4790K is required for the CPU, in workloads that don't use newer instructions, assuming I buy in October 2021.  (I have mentioned previously about my dad going from a 286 to a 486DX4; I'm not gonna rehash that here but that's the minimum improvement I require, in performance/$/time improvement.)

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10 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

What use will the machine be put to?  Just gaming and low power requirement stuff or something like industrial video editing?

Just gaming, and finance stuff. The reason why I want such a high powered cpu is because many of the games I want to play are cpu locked

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Honestly probably 80/20 gaming. Many of the games I want to play are cpu locked though. My main concern is, if AM5 does come out in the near future, that mother board can last me a loooong time then, right? 

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3 minutes ago, Brown_Thunder said:

Just gaming, and finance stuff. The reason why I want such a high powered cpu is because many of the games I want to play are cpu locked

Is that different than CPU bottlenecked?

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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13 hours ago, Otto_iii said:

First, if you aren't wealthy you should never buy the most expensive hardware just because you can, just like new Astons, Ferraris, and Lamborghinis they devalue harder and faster then anything, while more moderately priced stuff (lets say a BMW or a Lexus for analogies sake) doesn't cost as much and holds more of its value.  Im including capability into some of this value, rather then just resale $.  So in your orginal case a 8-core CPU, even if at 5ghz, may not be that big of a deal if its on old architecture with lots of security issue patches hindering its performance (9900k) in a few years.  Likewise it may not be cheaper but a 12-core 39000 probably will continue to increase in what its capable of as more programs and games start using more threads/cores. 

So far as AMD vs Intel? AMD will probably continue to lead for next few years, and investing in cores will likely be a good bet, but there is a decent chance now that they have 'Mindshare' (consumers actually respect, want, admire AMD) they may start jacking up prices and your return on investment will shrink.  I state the notion of them jacking up prices based off 3rd gen Threadripped prices, there is other evidence of it very recently but won't go into that.

You seem to really want a RTX card for whatever reason, i would say its probably better to wait till next generation, even on a 2080TI the tensor cores aren't beefy enough to actually utilize the rest of the graphics core, and you just end up with half baked performance running with RTX-On at the moment.  Id get a RTX 2070(Super) or 5700(XT) (id steer clear of the 2060s, they are a ripoff) and wait for next gen RTX if that is your concern.  Or if you really want to minmax, and are hellbent on Nvidea, get a 1660 Super and wait for next gen, its more then enough for high refresh 1080p medium-high (depending on refresh rate desired), if you wanna super-duper minmax get a 120$ rx570 and save ALL that money for next gen graphics, that thing can still do higher refresh 1080p on mix low-medium settings

I agree, and in truth, I really am not stuck on rtx 2080ti, I'm just trying to make this future proof as much as possible. Hence my main concern for am5. I can run the next gen of cpus from that motherboard than upgrading. Also, the money issue technically shouldn't be a problem future case, bc I was a student then. Now I have a job, but also now have loans, which is why I am overcompensating and equating the 2 salaries.

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5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Is that different than CPU bottlenecked?

They are kind of similar. Cpu locked is the games graphics and fps are run on the cpu rather than gpu. Ex: 7 days to die

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14 hours ago, Theguywhobea said:

If you keep up this train of thought you'll never buy a PC. The next best thing is always on the horizon. Buy the best PC you can right now, and you'll likely be very happy with it for quite a while. I don't think we'll see any more huge performance jumps with our current silicon based PC's.

True, but here is my issue: ddr3 came out in 2007, and ddr4 came out in 2014. If we take that logic, a new, faster iteration comes out every 7 years. Thus, we are expected to get ddr5 in 2021, a mere 1.3 years from now. Any current mb won't handle that. It is the promise of a overhaul such as that, that has me concerned. I want to make this pc as long lasting as possible, so the mb is crucial

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13 hours ago, OlympicAssEater said:

3900x because it will last you years to come. Am5 and ddr5 are going to be expensive. 

True, but I will also amass even more funds by then to compensate technically, right? Compounding on my existing funds 

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13 hours ago, amdorintel said:

best to fling money at certain components of a build, and cheap out on other aspects

as mentioned earlier

 

but ya dont wait, otherwise be always playing the game "what if"

True. But the core item I'm concerned about is the mb, as that dictates the cpu and ram. I like amd as they make their mother boards last as long as possible with their backwards compatible cpu. If I bite the bullet on AM4, and if AM5 does come out, then I'll have to buy a new mb to compensate when I get my new cpu

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The best way to spend money in trying to futurproof your hardware, you buy the top of the line stuff and then BOOM, better product for almost the same price and then your 1400$ GPU is now worth 800$, your 550$ motherboard is now worth 350, your 800$ CPU is now way slower then the new 700 CPU...

I'm not a rich person too, i work as a mechanic a have a decent living out of it, but buying the high end stuff is a real waste of money to me, buying the 2080ti is not even in my mind, at least new.

 

I build my first PC a year ago, then i started buying better parts, Bought a used Crosshair 7 hero which at the time was the best motherboard you can get, then Zen 2 came out, the Ryzen 2700 was on sale at 270CAD, bought the older CPU instead of the new stuff for half the price of the new 3700X. Have an RX580 and thinking about upgrading it for what? I play 1080p Ultra setting with round 75FPS in the games i enjoy, why upgrading?

 

You only can be the judge if it'S worth it, but what i highly suggest you to do is, buy a good motherboard, futurproof that part. Then put a Ryzen 3600 on it, with an RX5700XT.

New year when the 4th gen come out, you can buy a new CPU and sell the 3600, see if a GPU upgrade is worth it, you will have spared money to improve your PC one more time. That what i would do, you need to be able burn a lot of money to buy the High end stuff that will loose half of it's value next year.

Main System: Ryzen 2700, Asus Crosshair VII Hero, EVGA GTX 1080ti SC, 970 EVO Plus NVMe, Crucial Ballistix 3200mhz CL14, CM H500, CM ML240L cpu cooler.

Second System: Ryzen 2400G, Gigabyte B450 DS3H, RX 580 Nitro+, Kingston A400 SSD, Team T-Force 3200mhz CL15

If it ain't overclocked it ain't good...

 

AM4 boards VRM rating list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

Buildzoid's AM4 motherboard roundup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti38JS8RuPU

 

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