File sharing sites Openload and Streamango shut down by Anti-Piracy Alliance ACE

[mr moose]

7 hours ago, TechyBen said:

So have you paid for that Avatar? Or is it fair use? These things go down a great rabbit hole. And it seems both sides just want to argue, and very few want to actually work together.

Actually,  no these things don;t go down any rabbit hole.  Fair use is a defense policy not an extended right
. Given my avatar is a 2 sec snippet of 4 minute song used outside of financial gain for me or loss for them I could probably argue fair use.  But if the owner asked me to take it down I would.

 

What you are trying to do here is conflate copying an entire movie and making money from distributing that for free with a 2 sec gif.   If you can't see how you are now clutching at straws for an argument then no amount of facts or authority on the subject will convince you.

 

 

7 hours ago, TechyBen said:

As I've said, I pay for and get DRM free games, and those providing them seem to do fine with it. My music collection is on CD and Spotify, and the artists seem fine with it (many releasing entire albums for free on youtube/Spotify add versions, or back catalogues on their website/radio etc).

And?

[TechyBen]

On 11/12/2019 at 8:26 PM, mr moose said:

Actually,  no these things don;t go down any rabbit hole.  Fair use is a defense policy not an extended right
. Given my avatar is a 2 sec snippet of 4 minute song used outside of financial gain for me or loss for them I could probably argue fair use.  But if the owner asked me to take it down I would.

 

What you are trying to do here is conflate copying an entire movie and making money from distributing that for free with a 2 sec gif.   If you can't see how you are now clutching at straws for an argument then no amount of facts or authority on the subject will convince you.

 

 

And?

As said. I'm not wanting to copy an entire movie, or make financial gain off it. Just showing, it's a variable, a gradient, a spectrum of information, content and media. Close down the "pirate sites". But saying everyone who has ever downloaded, watched or viewed the media without paying is a criminal... well, would technically be correct, if we make the law so that they are criminals.

 

But we can do that. Make a law that passes everyone as a criminal. Or we can socially, understand and accept use cases, until it causes harm, and then take action to prevent that harm. As said. Those artists concentrating on their paying customers, tend to do very well. Those massive companies going crazy at the (real or not) pirates, tend to lose more and more real customers (less box office takings etc).

 

Perhaps it's just a sunken time/costs problem. But I see reasonable situations, like no phones at concerts (though in this day and age, people should have a camera free option to make emergency calls), seems the best way to go, over criminalising the fan with a "complete" collection they got from friends for that one album that never got re-released. (And yes, I know it's "ironic" calling it "friends" when these sites are possibly 1000s or millions of people large now... but so is the internet and our connected world).

 

On a side note. There are sea side markets around here, that sell bootleg CD/DVDs of movies, in the worse possible quality ever. Until recently people bought from them, while I went to charity stores (technically illegal by definition, as I never paid the media creators for the right to watch), as why would I PAY more for sub quality fake content? Or I'll wait to watch when prices drop/free to air etc. But some people are fools... I don't think a big group of police storming their house would stop them being fools... but by all means close down those markets... but in most places, they continue, and the world + dog seems to not care.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

As said. I'm not wanting to copy an entire movie, or make financial gain off it. Just showing, it's a variable, a gradient, a spectrum of information, content and media.

Who cares what you want to do or not specifically.  There is no gradient or spectrum.  Either something is being distributed with the owners blessing or it isn't.  And you don't get to decide if that's a grey area or not. 

2 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Close down the "pirate sites". But saying everyone who has ever downloaded, watched or viewed the media without paying is a criminal... well, would technically be correct, if we make the law so that they are criminals.

The law is pretty specific and some forms of copyright infringement are criminal under said law.    In the US if you knowingly profit from the distribution of copyrighted material that is a criminal act.   It is not a criminal act to download a movie, that's a civil mater and the CR owner would have to take legal action against you for satisfaction (read legal justice).

 

2 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

But we can do that. Make a law that passes everyone as a criminal. Or we can socially, understand and accept use cases, until it causes harm, and then take action to prevent that harm. As said. Those artists concentrating on their paying customers, tend to do very well. Those massive companies going crazy at the (real or not) pirates, tend to lose more and more real customers (less box office takings etc).

Or we could just abide the existing laws.  It's not that hard.

 

 

2 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

On a side note. I there are sea side markets around here, that sell bootleg CD/DVDs of movies, in the worse possible quality ever. Until recently people bought from them, while I went to charity stores (technically illegal by definition, as I never paid the media creators for the right to watch),

not too sure what the laws are where you are, but buying a second had dvd or CD is not illegal in most places.  So long as the seller doesn't have a copy of it anywhere.

 

10 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

.. but by all means close down those markets... but in most places, they continue, and the world + dog seems to not care.

 

The people who care are the people who's content is being distributed without their consent.  The trouble in these threads is that people don't even understand why that is a problem.   Laws must apply to everyone, not just those over a certain income or those who have been successful.    A person may wave their rights to content they create, but that person cannot wave them for other people no matter who they are. 

[LunaP0n3]

Piracy will never die. Not so long as DRM is shoved down out necks and the big companies refuse to let it go.

The over-saturation of streaming services has pushed people back to piracy because it has gotten too expensive. There was a reason Netflix was so popular, they had an extensive catalog for one flat fee per month.

The big media companies tried to get in on that action by creating their own services. Consumers revolted, going back to piracy for it's simplicity and ease of access. Do they ever learn?

Frankly, I'll just continue to run my NAS with my converted physical media. The only fees there are power and internet cap if I have to stream it outside my LAN.

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, LunaP0n3 said:

Piracy will never die. Not so long as DRM is shoved down out necks and the big companies refuse to let it go.

The over-saturation of streaming services has pushed people back to piracy because it has gotten too expensive. There was a reason Netflix was so popular, they had an extensive catalog for one flat fee per month.

The big media companies tried to get in on that action by creating their own services. Consumers revolted, going back to piracy for it's simplicity and ease of access. Do they ever learn?

Frankly, I'll just continue to run my NAS with my converted physical media. The only fees there are power and internet cap if I have to stream it outside my LAN.

You got that right, piracy is driven by cost.  Just remember that DRM has always followed piracy though, Every time DRM is broken they develop a harder to break DRM solution. 

 

What is there to learn for them though?  it's their content and they want to make the most from it,  if you think they don't understand the industry and whats happening then you are being very naive.  They know full well how many people are pirating and why. They also know what the market will pay,  they know which is the most profitable path to tread with regards to DRM and fighting piracy.  Believe it or not but Dodgy DRM solutions don't impact sales enough to warrant not using them, fighting piracy clearly doesn't cost them so much that it is a futile effort.