Ryzen 5 3600 RAM question

[TTwerty]

Hi!

Short question

 

I'm buying a Ryzen 5 3600 (in a fully new pc, not upgraded)

Do I buy:

Option 1 (3200) or Option 2 (3600)

 

Option 2 is 20$ more (which isn't a lot)

 

I read everywhere that the 3600 is better but I also read it's worse because it's CL18?

 

 

I can consider other affordable realistic options

Thanks!

[Turtle Rig]

15 minutes ago, TTwerty said:

Hi!

Short question

 

I'm buying a Ryzen 5 3600 (in a fully new pc, not upgraded)

Do I buy:

Option 1 (3200) or Option 2 (3600)

 

Option 2 is 20$ more (which isn't a lot)

 

I read everywhere that the 3600 is better but I also read it's worse because it's CL18?

 

 

I can consider other affordable realistic options

Thanks!

AMD is very picky about RAM.  In the past 3200Mhz was pretty much the lowest you can go for a Ryzen 2700x and what not.  Some where in between 3200Mhz and 4000Mhz is what you want and that is 3600Mhz.  I would pay the 20 bucks more and get the 3600Mhz.  For example your frame rate might jump by say 10fps because of the 3600Mhz compared to 3200Mhz.  So ya its a no brainer get the 3600Mhz kit and don't look back.

[TTwerty]

1 minute ago, Turtle Rig said:

AMD is very picky about RAM.  In the past 3200Mhz was pretty much the lowest you can go for a Ryzen 2700x and what not.  Some where in between 3200Mhz and 4000Mhz is what you want and that is 3600Mhz.  I would pay the 20 bucks more and get the 3600Mhz.  For example your frame rate might jump by say 10fps because of the 3600Mhz compared to 3200Mhz.  So ya its a no brainer get the 3600Mhz kit and don't look back.

Thanks for the quick response!

 

I also see a lot of people talk about B-die, is it important and should I waste my time on it?

[Zando_]

Just now, Turtle Rig said:

AMD is very picky about RAM.  In the past 3200Mhz was pretty much the lowest you can go for a Ryzen 2700x and what not.  Some where in between 3200Mhz and 4000Mhz is what you want and that is 3600Mhz.  I would pay the 20 bucks more and get the 3600Mhz.  For example your frame rate might jump by say 10fps because of the 3600Mhz compared to 3200Mhz.  So ya its a no brainer get the 3600Mhz kit and don't look back.

What? You can run 2133Mhz RAM with Ryzen without issue. I ran 3000Mhz with my 2700X (sometimes manually set to 3200Mhz, often just at the stock 3000Mhz). 

 

The picky about RAM thing was an issue with Zen (1000 series Ryzen, 2000G series APUs) arch chips, Zen+ and Zen 2 have fixed that. 

 

RAM speed matters for Ryzen's infinity fabric, that's why you want faster RAM. 2933MHz CL14 or Cl15 for Zen, 3200Mhz CL14 or CL16 for Zen+, and 3600Mhz CL16 for Zen 2 are all the best bang for the buck RAM speeds. Aka the fastest you can go without severe diminishing returns, it's the sweet spot. Given current RAM pricing you may as well go with 3600Mhz CL16 (there's a 2x8Gb kit of that for only $78 or so right now, G.Skill Ripjaws V which is good stuff). 

Yet again just actually look into something before speaking authoritatively on the subject. 
 

1 minute ago, TTwerty said:

Thanks for the quick response!

 

I also see a lot of people talk about B-die, is it important and should I waste my time on it?

B-Die was important for Zen, it was very picky. Most kits would only run up to 2933Mhz, B-Die was your best chance to push over that (and gain a bit of IPC and thus better single core performance). As stated above, Zen+ fixed that (IIRC it didn't play too nice with stuff much higher than 3200-3400 or so though) and Zen 2 further increased compatibility with higher clocked RAM (3400Mhz and above). If your kit is B-Die then nice - it's very good RAM - but it's not a necessity. 

[1van]

26 minutes ago, TTwerty said:

Option 1 (3200) or Option 2 (3600)

None of those. Check out this video and a table, there are many solid options.

If you are on a budget, Ballistix AES kits (Micron E-die) are a solid choice for Ryzen.

Zen 1 was picky with memory on old boards and BIOSes, the problem is long gone and a Zen 2 system now holds a record for DDR4 memory OC

Edited October 31, 2019 by 1van

[TTwerty]

2 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

What? You can run 2133Mhz RAM with Ryzen without issue. I ran 3000Mhz with my 2700X (sometimes manually set to 3200Mhz, often just at the stock 3000Mhz). 

 

The picky about RAM thing was an issue with Zen (1000 series Ryzen, 2000G series APUs) arch chips, Zen+ and Zen 2 have fixed that. 

 

RAM speed matters for Ryzen's infinity fabric, that's why you want faster RAM. 2933MHz CL14 or Cl15 for Zen, 3200Mhz CL14 or CL16 for Zen+, and 3600Mhz CL16 for Zen 2 are all the best bang for the buck RAM speeds. Aka the fastest you can go without severe diminishing returns, it's the sweet spot. Given current RAM pricing you may as well go with 3600Mhz CL16 (there's a 2x8Gb kit of that for only $78 or so right now, G.Skill Ripjaws V which is good stuff). 

Yet again just actually look into something before speaking authoritatively on the subject. 
 

B-Die was important for Zen, it was very picky. Most kits would only run up to 2933Mhz, B-Die was your best chance to push over that (and gain a bit of IPC and thus better single core performance). As stated above, Zen+ fixed that (IIRC it didn't play too nice with stuff much higher than 3200-3400 or so though) and Zen 2 further increased compatibility with higher clocked RAM (3400Mhz and above). If your kit is B-Die then nice - it's very good RAM - but it's not a necessity. 

So I should get a 16 GB DDR4-3600 CL16, but the Ripjaws aren't available in my region, only the lower models.

The cheapest CL16 3600's I find are 140$.

Is the CL that important, as Ram say they are "Ryzen Optimized", might just be marketing?

[Zando_]

3 minutes ago, TTwerty said:

So I should get a 16 GB DDR4-3600 CL16, but the Ripjaws aren't available in my region, only the lower models.

The cheapest CL16 3600's I find are 140$.

Is the CL that important, as Ram say they are "Ryzen Optimized", might just be marketing?

Yep, marketing. CL is the latency, you want that as low as possible while being reasonably priced. CL18 is higher than you'd like for 3600MHz, try and get CL16 or CL14 on 3200Mhz. If you can't find either for a good price, 3200Mhz CL16 or 3600Mhz Cl18 would be fine, just not o p t i m a l. 

[GrockleTD]

20 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

or example your frame rate might jump by say 10fps

impossible. that is way beyond possible

[TTwerty]

12 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Yep, marketing. CL is the latency, you want that as low as possible while being reasonably priced. CL18 is higher than you'd like for 3600MHz, try and get CL16 or CL14 on 3200Mhz. If you can't find either for a good price, 3200Mhz CL16 or 3600Mhz Cl18 would be fine, just not o p t i m a l. 

Great!

So if I would have a few options:

G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 CL16 - 75€

Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200 CL16 - 87€ ("Ryzen Optimized" was 1€ more xd)

G.Skill Trident Z 3200 CL16 - 87€

Corsair DDR4-3600 CL18 - 108€

There are also some in between like HyperX's

 

Which one would you pick or think is the best value for money? (If you want in dollar add like 10% lol)

 

I also don't really understand the timings, does it need to be something specific?

[Zando_]

Just now, TTwerty said:

Great!

So if I would have a few options:

G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 CL16 - 75€

Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200 CL16 - 87€ ("Ryzen Optimized" was 1€ more xd)

G.Skill Trident Z 3200 CL16 - 87€

Corsair DDR4-3600 CL18 -108€

There are also some in between like HyperX's

 

Which one would you pick or think is the best value for money? (If you want in dollar add like 10% lol)

 

I also don't really understand the timings, does it need to be something specific?

Just want the CL as low as possible, but the ratio of clocks to CL matters. 3000Mhz CL15 is the same effective speed as 3200Mhz CL16 IIRC. Should be able to google the speed/timings vs each other and see what the actual effective speed is (I forget the math). Otherwise just get the Ripjaws V because that's good RAM and the cheapest kit. 

[TTwerty]

2 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Just want the CL as low as possible, but the ratio of clocks to CL matters. 3000Mhz CL15 is the same effective speed as 3200Mhz CL16 IIRC. Should be able to google the speed/timings vs each other and see what the actual effective speed is (I forget the math). Otherwise just get the Ripjaws V because that's good RAM and the cheapest kit. 

Thanks for all the useful information!

Just googled a calculator and it seems like:

3000 CL15 = 3200 CL16 = 3600 CL18.

So all these perform essentially the same?

[SnowyMus]

10 minutes ago, TTwerty said:

Thanks for all the useful information!

Just googled a calculator and it seems like:

3000 CL15 = 3200 CL16 = 3600 CL18.

So all these perform essentially the same?

The higher clock speed RAM will have more memory bandwidth. As for timings:

 

2 / (3000 MHz) x 15 = 10 nanoseconds

2 / (3200 MHz) x 16 = 10 nanoseconds

2 / (3600 MHz) x 18 = 10 nanoseconds

 

They have identical latencies (lower is better).

Edited October 31, 2019 by Kavawuvi
accidentally put 3800 instead of 3600

[TTwerty]

Do I need to worry about the timings on Ram? 

As I see a lot of diffrence between all the options.

[Zando_]

1 minute ago, TTwerty said:

Do I need to worry about the timings on Ram? 

As I see a lot of diffrence between all the options.

As @Kavawuvi said above, they're all the same effective latency, so just get the kit that offers the best bang for your buck. The 3600Mhz is the better option if you play games similar to GTA V/Fallout and stuff that benefit quite significantly from RAM bandwidth, otherwise just get the cheapest 3200Mhz CL16 kit. 

[TTwerty]

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

As @Kavawuvi said above, they're all the same effective latency, so just get the kit that offers the best bang for your buck. The 3600Mhz is the better option if you play games similar to GTA V/Fallout and stuff that benefit quite significantly from RAM bandwidth, otherwise just get the cheapest 3200Mhz CL16 kit. 

Sorry about my miscommunication but I was trying say that some kits say 16 18-18-38 and others say 16-18-18-36?

[Zando_]

1 minute ago, TTwerty said:

Sorry about my miscommunication but I was trying say that some kits say 16 18-18-38 and others say 16-18-18-36?

16-18-18-36 is very slightly tighter (aka better) than 16-18-18-38. If the price difference is only a few bucks, get the kit ending in 36. 

[Vejnemojnen]

55 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

AMD is very picky about RAM.  In the past 3200Mhz was pretty much the lowest you can go for a Ryzen 2700x and what not.  Some where in between 3200Mhz and 4000Mhz is what you want and that is 3600Mhz.  I would pay the 20 bucks more and get the 3600Mhz.  For example your frame rate might jump by say 10fps because of the 3600Mhz compared to 3200Mhz.  So ya its a no brainer get the 3600Mhz kit and don't look back.

Please don't misinform the OP. It is incorrect.

 

3rd gen works with pretty much anything. Even 1st gen come a long way since initial launch problems. 2nd Gen was basically hassle free with memory, especially with more recent bios-es.

 

3200Mhz Cl16... will be sufficient, gains above that are marginal. For the OP:

Buddy of mine runs 3200Mhz Crucial Ballistix Sport kit on 3600mhz cl16... with 2nd gen ryzen.. Strongly recommended, micron-E die RAMS.

[TTwerty]

4 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

16-18-18-36 is very slightly tighter (aka better) than 16-18-18-38. If the price difference is only a few bucks, get the kit ending in 36. 

11$ extra to get a 36 instead of a 38, probably not worth it?

 

How big would the diffrence be from a 3200 CL16 vs a 3600 CL18? and is it worth the extra $40?

 

Thanks for all this help btw, ram is confusing as hell

[Zando_]

5 minutes ago, TTwerty said:

11$ extra to get a 36 instead of a 38, probably not worth it?

 

How big would the diffrence be from a 3200 CL16 vs a 3600 CL18? and is it worth the extra $40?

 

Thanks for all this help btw, ram is confusing as hell

From a quick vid of testing in GTA V that I've seen, it jumped 15-30fps from... I think it was 2666Mhz to 3200Mhz RAM. IDK what timings they were though. Jayztwocents has just been doing testing on speeds though:

 

I believe this was single channel vs dual channel:

 

 

Haven't watched this yet but I assume he'll run the same timings and only change clocks? 

 

[Turtle Rig]

17 minutes ago, Vejnemojnen said:

Please don't misinform the OP. It is incorrect.

 

3rd gen works with pretty much anything. Even 1st gen come a long way since initial launch problems. 2nd Gen was basically hassle free with memory, especially with more recent bios-es.

 

3200Mhz Cl16... will be sufficient, gains above that are marginal. For the OP:

Buddy of mine runs 3200Mhz Crucial Ballistix Sport kit on 3600mhz cl16... with 2nd gen ryzen.. Strongly recommended, micron-E die RAMS.

I never said things wont work ?

[Zando_]

Just now, Turtle Rig said:

I never said things wont work ?

The way you phrased it made it sound like anything lower than 3200Mhz physically will not work with a 2700X. 

[TTwerty]

18 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

From a quick vid of testing in GTA V that I've seen, it jumped 15-30fps from... I think it was 2666Mhz to 3200Mhz RAM. IDK what timings they were though. Jayztwocents has just been doing testing on speeds though:

 

I believe this was single channel vs dual channel:

 

 

Haven't watched this yet but I assume he'll run the same timings and only change clocks? 

 

After looking at these videos, I'm sure I'll just stick to the 3200's.

 

Thanks for your very informative responses!

[WereCat]

1 hour ago, TTwerty said:

Thanks for the quick response!

 

I also see a lot of people talk about B-die, is it important and should I waste my time on it?

Samsung B-Die is no longer in production. 

It's pretty good, usually kits that are 3200MHz CL14 are B-Die but there is also Micron E-Die which is as good if not better. 

 

Most Crucial Ballistix kits 3200MHz CL16 are E-Die. I have 4x16GB and I was able to easily OC it to 3733MHz CL16. 

[TTwerty]

1 minute ago, WereCat said:

Samsung B-Die is no longer in production. 

It's pretty good, usually kits that are 3200MHz CL14 are B-Die but there is also Micron E-Die which is as good if not better. 

 

Most Crucial Ballistix kits 3200MHz CL16 are E-Die. I have 4x16GB and I was able to easily OC it to 3733MHz CL16. 

The 3200 CL14's are way too expensive for me to even consider this but thanks for the info.

Also not really planning on OCing my ram.

[mts007]

On 10/31/2019 at 1:46 PM, Turtle Rig said:

I never said things wont work ?

I thought the max speed of ram for a ryzen 5 3600 was ddr4-3200? are you able to use ddr-3600 with ryzen 5 3600 and b450 tomahawk max mobo?