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[EOL] PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

LukeSavenije
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For help choosing a power supply please Create a New Thread asking for assistance including your budget and system hardware to receive the best answers relevant to your specific needs.

1 minute ago, Syaoran said:

Where's CXM 550?

Tier B.

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Main - Work + Gaming:

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Idk if it's been asked in this thread already yet, but ...

 

With the upcoming Intel c10 sleep states that apparently are the first major revision since Haswell c6/c7 ...

 

Is it possible we'll have another situation where it's inadvisable to use Haswell / Skylake / Coffee Lake era PSUs with post-Comet Lake builds?  Kind-of like how it was (I think) advised not to use Sandy Bridge or Nehalem era PSUs (that didn't support c6/c7) with Haswell or Skylake builds?

 

This is assuming you already have the PSU on hand, and are reusing it from a previous build.

 

Or, if someone is doing a new build, can they reuse the PSU from the existing build they're dismantling, for example one that might meet c6/c7, but was made before c10 was introduced?

 

For example ... well in my case I'm probably going AMD, but if I was to build a Zen 4 / Ryzen 5000 / AM5 / TR5 system, or the next one after that, say, in late 2021 or early 2022, would I likely be okay to keep using my existing Corsair AX760 (bought January 2015) then?

 

Or might the Corsair AX series get de-tiered a few steps then, kind-of like how (I think) today PSUs that don't meet c6/c7 are no higher than Tier D+ now?

 

Also ... What actually happens (reasoning, new knowledge about old units / greater expectations as time goes on, etc) behind units de-tiering as time goes on, or as they age?  For example, now I see a lot of older SeaSonic units (like S12II, M12II, SSP, etc) tiered fairly low, but I remember another tier list I looked at several years ago (like 2014 or 2015, or was it a few years before that, I forget) where there were no SeaSonic units below Tier 2 / B, including the S12, etc.

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@PianoPlayer88Key AFAIK using PSUs that don't support C6\C7 sleep states isn't inadvisable by itself, it's just that with a high chance if PSU doesn't support them then it's group regulated. There's some group regulated units that do support C6\C7 but they still have terrible crossload characteristics and decent independent regulated units that don't support C6\C7 because they are older than this standard. But that aside, it's not the support of C6\C7 that matters per se. I don't think migration to C10 are the same situation since all top-tier units are independent regulation at this point, with excellent crossload response on most of them that, i doubt C10 will change things much.

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I see a lot of older SeaSonic units (like S12II, M12II, SSP, etc) tiered fairly low

Because they're group regulated (S12ll\M12ll) or have problems with too sensitive OCP or too high ripple (Seasonic Focus FX).

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24 minutes ago, Juular said:

Tier B ?

23 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

Tier B.

oh, it's just weird for it to be the last one on it's row and only showing you the 750w version

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3 minutes ago, Syaoran said:

oh, it's just weird for it to be the last one on it's row and only showing you the 750w version

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 Corsair: CXM 2015 - CXM 2017 - HX650 Gold - GS Bronze - Vengeance Bronze, CX 2012 750w+ - CXM 2012 750w+

 

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1 hour ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

 

 

With the upcoming Intel c10 sleep states that apparently are the first major revision since Haswell c6/c7 ...

 

not all Intel DC specifications should affect your purchase decision 

 

for example the gigabyte ap850gm is in this list at tier A (not that I agree with its placement) although it doesnt Comply with Intel DC Speceification 3.2.8

RmOn8Yy.png

 

and This is from Kitguru Review

MImNahd.png

But at the end of the day this non compliance with a required specification didnt affect kitguru's rating as well 

And nobody really knows what is the importance of such requirements by intel , not even the leading industry proffessionals at the PSU Industry that participate in our online PC community 

 

At the end of the day you should base your purchase decisions on reccomendations from known reviewers 

CPU:  i7 9700K / CPU Cooler: bequiet! Dark Rock Pro 4/Motherboard: Gigabyte z390 Aorus Pro Wifi/ RAM: 2 x Ballistix 8GB  DDR4

GPU:  ASUS ROG STRIX  RTX 2070 SSD:  ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB NVMe / HDD:  3TB WD 30EZRX

PC Case:  CM H500P Mesh White / PSU: Corsair RM850i -850w Gold  /Monitor :LG CX 55 + S27B970D

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1 hour ago, Juular said:

@PianoPlayer88Key AFAIK using PSUs that don't support C6\C7 sleep states isn't inadvisable by itself, it's just that with a high chance if PSU doesn't support them then it's group regulated. There's some group regulated units that do support C6\C7 but they still have terrible crossload characteristics and decent independent regulated units that don't support C6\C7 because they are older than this standard. But that aside, it's not the support of C6\C7 that matters per se. I don't think migration to C10 are the same situation since all top-tier units are independent regulation at this point, with excellent crossload response on most of them that, i doubt C10 will change things much.

Because they're group regulated (S12ll\M12ll) or have problems with too sensitive OCP or too high ripple (Seasonic Focus FX).

Ahh.  I'm curious, what might have been some examples of older PSUs that were well made / highly regarded in their day?  I remember a while ago looking through some magazine archives, saw some ads for PC Power & Cooling AT power supplies in, I think, the late 1980s, that mentioned independent regulation.  I wonder what PSUs from like the early days of the ATX spec (before the Pentium 4 and 12V-heavy loads) were highly regarded in their day, and didn't quickly fall into the category (once newer technologies / specs came out) of "oh my god throw it away you'll set your country on fire!"? :)

 

And any ideas why those SeaSonics (or others) might have been highly rated then?  Did group regulation not matter as much then, say, back in the days of Sandy Bridge, Nehalem, Williamette, Coppermine, Klamath, etc?  Or were there some other factors as well?

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8 minutes ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

Ahh.  I'm curious, what might have been some examples of older PSUs that were well made / highly regarded in their day?  I remember a while ago looking through some magazine archives, saw some ads for PC Power & Cooling AT power supplies in, I think, the late 1980s, that mentioned independent regulation.  I wonder what PSUs from like the early days of the ATX spec (before the Pentium 4 and 12V-heavy loads) were highly regarded in their day, and didn't quickly fall into the category (once newer technologies / specs came out) of "oh my god throw it away you'll set your country on fire!"? :)

 

And any ideas why those SeaSonics (or others) might have been highly rated then?  Did group regulation not matter as much then, say, back in the days of Sandy Bridge, Nehalem, Williamette, Coppermine, Klamath, etc?  Or were there some other factors as well?

as an example Current hardware components like the gpu  have sudden spikes in power during loads to a level that wasnt present with older hardware which  isnt optimal for how old PSU were designed , older platforms  experience higher ripples during such transient loads which may overwork your component capacitors and system stability , this is why decade old reviews you would not find tests such as transient load respone 

CPU:  i7 9700K / CPU Cooler: bequiet! Dark Rock Pro 4/Motherboard: Gigabyte z390 Aorus Pro Wifi/ RAM: 2 x Ballistix 8GB  DDR4

GPU:  ASUS ROG STRIX  RTX 2070 SSD:  ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB NVMe / HDD:  3TB WD 30EZRX

PC Case:  CM H500P Mesh White / PSU: Corsair RM850i -850w Gold  /Monitor :LG CX 55 + S27B970D

DAC: Audioengine D1 /Speakers : Focal Bird 2.1 /Headphones: Sennheiser HD 380Pro / B&W PX

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12 minutes ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

Ahh.  I'm curious, what might have been some examples of older PSUs that were well made / highly regarded in their day?

Oh, no idea, i didn't dig about PSUs much these days (and i'm by no means an expert even now).

12 minutes ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

Did group regulation not matter as much then

Yep, 12V rail were used moderately at most and with the lack of lower sleep states, 3.3V and 5V rails were loaded rather high all the time, PSUs were designed with that in mind. When C6\C7 SS come, in sleep mode 3.3V and 5V rails have almost no load while 12V rail are still loaded relatively high, or was it the other way, anyway, it's crossload, so because group-regulated units regulate voltage on all rails by total load when you have no load on one rail but high load on other, voltages on these rails will go out of specifications. Same for transient spikes of modern high power draw GPUs, group regulated PSUs just can't keep voltages on all rails in specs with them.

Tag or quote me so i see your reply

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4 hours ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

Is it possible we'll have another situation where it's inadvisable to use Haswell / Skylake / Coffee Lake era PSUs with post-Comet Lake builds? 

something short to note with this. i can show what future will do around this.

 

c6/c7 is mostly failed because the PSU is allowed to have only a 5% difference on voltage, and group regulated units, since the controller sees the 5v and 12v as one group, will push the 5v too high, outside of this spec.

 

with that, these PSUs are simply not keepable for no-load situations

 

c10 is something that has mostly to do with efficiency, not these crossloads, as it's 60% under ultra low loads

 

but this is still a bit hard to figure out at this moment. for example Corsair's RM 2019 line meets this, but the controller starts to make a high-pitched sound when switching between low and high powerstates (~90w)

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3 hours ago, Mezoxin said:

not that I agree with its placement

well, the importance of it seems so little, that we chose to place it high either way. you're of course always welcome to prove otherwise

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51 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

well, the importance of it seems so little, that we chose to place it high either way. you're of course always welcome to prove otherwise

No i do agree the importance of that power specification is insignificant and shouldn't affect the rating , what i do not like about that gigabyte psu is there is only one review available by kitguru and no other reviews by top reviewers such as aris and oklahama wolf . 

CPU:  i7 9700K / CPU Cooler: bequiet! Dark Rock Pro 4/Motherboard: Gigabyte z390 Aorus Pro Wifi/ RAM: 2 x Ballistix 8GB  DDR4

GPU:  ASUS ROG STRIX  RTX 2070 SSD:  ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB NVMe / HDD:  3TB WD 30EZRX

PC Case:  CM H500P Mesh White / PSU: Corsair RM850i -850w Gold  /Monitor :LG CX 55 + S27B970D

DAC: Audioengine D1 /Speakers : Focal Bird 2.1 /Headphones: Sennheiser HD 380Pro / B&W PX

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19 minutes ago, Mezoxin said:

what i do not like about that gigabyte psu is there is only one review available by kitguru and no other reviews by top reviewers such as aris and oklahama wolf . 

i want you to read the name of the reviewer out loud and ask again

Spoiler

crmaris=aris

 

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8 minutes ago, Bech1303 said:

Well i Think you guys should take a look at inter-tech psu’s

as far as I'm aware Inter-tech is the reseller of them, Sama is the actual maker of them, and are already in the list

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1 hour ago, LukeSavenije said:

i want you to read the name of the reviewer out loud and ask again

  Hide contents

crmaris=aris

 

oh my bad i know crmais is aris but didnt check as  I thought he only posted his reviews with tom's and techspot , thanks for pointing this out 

 

 

CPU:  i7 9700K / CPU Cooler: bequiet! Dark Rock Pro 4/Motherboard: Gigabyte z390 Aorus Pro Wifi/ RAM: 2 x Ballistix 8GB  DDR4

GPU:  ASUS ROG STRIX  RTX 2070 SSD:  ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB NVMe / HDD:  3TB WD 30EZRX

PC Case:  CM H500P Mesh White / PSU: Corsair RM850i -850w Gold  /Monitor :LG CX 55 + S27B970D

DAC: Audioengine D1 /Speakers : Focal Bird 2.1 /Headphones: Sennheiser HD 380Pro / B&W PX

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2 minutes ago, Mezoxin said:

oh my bad i know crmais is aris but didnt check as  I thought he only posted his reviews with tom's and techspot , thanks for pointing this out 

Aris works (as far as I'm aware) for Cybernatics EU, kitguru, techpowerup and tomshardware

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1 hour ago, LukeSavenije said:

Aris works (as far as I'm aware) for Cybernatics EU, kitguru, techpowerup and tomshardware

I do wish there were more reviews though

you think gigabyte might pull off something like this ?

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?14872-New-Nox-Urano-VX-80-Plus-Bronze/page4

 

they did similar things with their motherboards a while back 

 

CPU:  i7 9700K / CPU Cooler: bequiet! Dark Rock Pro 4/Motherboard: Gigabyte z390 Aorus Pro Wifi/ RAM: 2 x Ballistix 8GB  DDR4

GPU:  ASUS ROG STRIX  RTX 2070 SSD:  ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB NVMe / HDD:  3TB WD 30EZRX

PC Case:  CM H500P Mesh White / PSU: Corsair RM850i -850w Gold  /Monitor :LG CX 55 + S27B970D

DAC: Audioengine D1 /Speakers : Focal Bird 2.1 /Headphones: Sennheiser HD 380Pro / B&W PX

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16 minutes ago, Mezoxin said:

they did similar things with their motherboards a while back 

as i follow along with motherboards as well, they've changed a lot recently. of course it's possible, but i would expect it as much from any company as from gigabyte

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@LukeSavenije 

 

Is this the same as the High Current Gamer Gold?  I ask because the link in the tier list doesn't say "Extreme".  There may be another variant of "High Current Gamer" floating around in the wild:  "Antec High Current Gamer Extreme"

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Pk7v6h/antec-high-current-gamer-extreme-850w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-hcg850-extreme

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Just now, LogicWeasel said:

Is this the same as the High Current Gamer Gold?

i checked on it earlier today, it's another FX

 

maybe i should add it soon-ish

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Just now, LukeSavenije said:

i checked on it earlier today, it's another FX

 

maybe i should add it soon-ish

Ah ha!  So it's another one bound for Tier D because it follows in the dreaded footsteps of the 'ol "ripple of death" Focus Plus Golds eh?

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23 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

Ah ha!  So it's another one bound for Tier D because it follows in the dreaded footsteps of the 'ol "ripple of death" Focus Plus Golds eh?

well... tier d+

 

but it's too easy for me these days not to see that it's a focus after looking at it for a couple seconds... over time you get to recognise certain layouts

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