[EOL] PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

[Makarevich]

27 minutes ago, Juular said:

Translation for you, his complains :

- A LOT of compound on filter caps and chokes (it's a bad thing huh ? that just reduces coil whine i guess).

- One TAICON cap on that vertical board on the side (don't know what's that), MAYBE some TAICON's somewhere under DC-DC (?) transformers (he's not sure and apparently doesn't want to desolder anything lol), and apparently all of caps on modular board are TAICONs also.

- Flux everywhere. I don't see anything on the video honestly, there's like 2 points where it's really visible at most.

Also he has poked it with multi-meter a bit, measured thermals with laser thermometer lol, all that under undisclosed load (if at all). That's it. Typical YT "reviewer".

Thanks!

Is this a bad review? However we talk about psu from tier S. Can psu from tier S contain Taicon capacitors? 

[Makarevich]

Question about nzxt E. Review from THG tells that oem is seasonic (focus+). Why nzxt E and seasonic focus+ in different tiers? 

[LukeSavenije]

44 minutes ago, Makarevich said:

Question about nzxt E. Review from THG tells that oem is seasonic (focus+). Why nzxt E and seasonic focus+ in different tiers? 

that is correct, but the nzxt e has been modified, as it needed a dedicated ocp rail for the current monitoring. as nzxt e hasn't shown the ocp tripping issues, it never had to be set higher, so it doesn't have ripple issues either

[LukeSavenije]

1 hour ago, Juular said:

Seasonic Focus has problems with GPUs mostly, shutting off randomly with some select ones

that was from the revision that should be retired at that point, he has the second with ripple issues

[LukeSavenije]

3 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

So with that said I am officially planning on replacing my seasonic G series with one of the Tier B+ or A- power supplies.

then hydro g would be a good choice. 550w will do here

 

and i don't mind a tier a psu here, as my personal limit for multirail is at 650w

[FALC0N]

11 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

that is correct, but the nzxt e has been modified, as it needed a dedicated ocp rail for the current monitoring. as nzxt e hasn't shown the ocp tripping issues, it never had to be set higher, so it doesn't have ripple issues either

 

None of the Focus models have ripple issues,   You won't ever get the rest of list cleaned up if you can't figure out something as simple as this mythical "ripple issue".  

[LukeSavenije]

1 minute ago, FALC0N said:

None of the Focus models has ripple issues,   You won't ever get the rest of list cleaned up if you can't figure out something as simple as this mythical "ripple issue".  

http://www.pceva.com.cn/article/3911-2.html

[FALC0N]

1 minute ago, LukeSavenije said:

http://www.pceva.com.cn/article/3911-2.html

 

I am fully aware of where this nonsense started and who started it.   The three main issues are:

 

1)   A 268mv spike occurring at a 150 watt overload is NOT an issue.  

 

2)   I have yet to see that spike replicated in any  other test.  So even if it was an issue, it hasn't been replicated.  

 

3)   That someone was willing to hunt through foreign languages sites to cherry pick negative information should have been a clue that maybe he wasn't entirely impartial in his analysis.   Your source has serious anti-Seasonic bias in my opinion.

 

 

[LukeSavenije]

10 minutes ago, FALC0N said:

268mv spike occurring at a 150 watt overload is NOT an issue.  

except that atx spec allows up to 120mv, which i personally already find high

 

11 minutes ago, FALC0N said:

have yet to see that spike replicated in any  other test.  So even if it was an issue, it hasn't been replicated

that's because most do up to 110% ripple testing

 

11 minutes ago, FALC0N said:

Your source has serious anti-Seasonic bias in my opinion.

that one finding was @-The_Mask-

 

seasonic is aware of this, and it should be fixed in the gx/px/gm, but tests haven't been out yet

[mariushm]

I agree with Falcon here...  why would you expect ripple to stay below 120mV when you're forcing the power supply to 150w above its advertised output?

Do you blame a CPU a memory stick for causing crashes or errors or do you call it faulty if it's not stable if you overclock it above its advertised frequencies?

It's like calling a 3200 Mhz memory stick faulty because you can't run it at 4000 Mhz... ridiculous.

 

Also worth noting it's a 750w psu tested, and they're getting that result when pulling 900w from 12v alone. A regular computer would have around 30-50w on 3.3v and 5v, so you'd have to pull at least around 925w to get this.

A few cm above that result, they're showing 50mV ripple at 888w on 12v alone.

 

It's ridiculous, I'd understand if we talk about 5% above its output voltage, just in case some idiot installs 2 2080tis and overclocks them and may have very short bursts (like 5-10ms peaks) of power draw over 750w of power consumption.

 

If Seasonic recognized this as an issue, good for them.... but I wouldn't classify this as fault.

 

 

 

[LukeSavenije]

3 minutes ago, mariushm said:

why would you expect ripple to stay below 120mV when you're forcing the power supply to 150w above its advertised output?

because they didn't set opp low enough? the old (tripping) revision already had one around 135%, this was at 120%

 

I'm not saying it's a realistic load, but it's far from an impossible load

[Juular]

2 hours ago, Makarevich said:

Thanks!

Is this a bad review? However we talk about psu from tier S. Can psu from tier S contain Taicon capacitors? 

Not going to blame or defend Corsair on that, still waiting for @jonnyGURU answer on that matter. But for 280$ PSU i'd expect it to contain only top quality stuff too but it's probably not an issue to have lower quality caps on modular board.

[LukeSavenije]

4 minutes ago, Juular said:

But for 280$ PSU i'd expect it to contain only top quality stuff

believe me... flextronics literally refuses to do cheap stuff

[mariushm]

5 minutes ago, Juular said:

Not going to blame or defend Corsair on that, still waiting for @johnyGURU answer on that matter. But for 280$ PSU i'd expect it to contain only top quality stuff too but it's probably not an issue to have lower quality caps on modular board.

Taicon isn't a bad capacitor manufacturer, it's a Taiwanese manufacturer and has a good reputation .. it's used in server power supplies made by Delta and other high end products.  They were started with Nichicon's support.

* well, it's Taiwanese company but they moved the factory to China...

I personally wouldn't mind seeing them on a modular board, especially if they're used for additional filtering only.

 

I imagine the Taicon's are listed in the BOM for those power supplies as 2nd source (if they're out of 1st choice for that part, use Taicon as acceptable alternate)

 

 

[LukeSavenije]

2 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Taiwanese manufacturer

BuT mUh JaPcApS

Spoiler

read with an extreme level of sarcasm

 

[FALC0N]

1 hour ago, LukeSavenije said:

except that atx spec allows up to 120mv, which i personally already find high

 

Not how that works.  They only have to stay in spec for the rated load.  Nor are they required to shut down before going out of spec.  It's certainly nice if they do, but 150w+ is neither an issue nor any cause for concern.  

 

Quote

that one finding was @-The_Mask-

 

No, I wasn't talking about Mask.  It isn't important anyways. 

[LukeSavenije]

1 minute ago, Juular said:

Also, @LukeSavenije where in this list would be FSP Hyper & Hammer ?

can't give immediately an answer... added to the list

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Juular said:

Translation for you, his complains :

- A LOT of compound on filter caps and chokes (it's a bad thing huh ? that just reduces coil whine i guess).

- One TAICON cap on that vertical board on the side (don't know what's that), MAYBE some TAICON's somewhere under DC-DC (?) transformers (he's not sure and apparently doesn't want to desolder anything lol), and apparently all of caps on modular board are TAICONs also.

- Flux everywhere. I don't see anything on the video honestly, there's like 2 points where it's really visible at most.

Also he has poked it with multi-meter a bit, measured thermals with laser thermometer lol, all that under undisclosed load (if at all). That's it. Typical YT "reviewer".

Yeah.  See.  He doesn't know what he's talking about.  You never use "maybe" in an objective review.

 

YES!  A lot of RTV (or caulk) all over the components.  Keeps the coil whine dampened and keeps the heavy components in place.

 

YES!  On Taicon cap.  As I already stated.  Maybe some more?  No.

 

Flux everywhere?!?!  What the hell is even talking about?   He doesn't even show it.

 

The guy is a hack.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Makarevich said:

Thanks!

Is this a bad review? However we talk about psu from tier S. Can psu from tier S contain Taicon capacitors? 

Yes.  Of course.  Because people put too much emphasis on the "Japanese Capacitor" marketing bullet point.

 

You've also made the case for why a user should start a new thread asking about what PSU to get instead of interjecting into another one.  Your questions, responses and counter-questions are now spread across two pages with everyone else's comments about everything else.

 

[Falkentyne]

Why are the Seasonic Titanium / Ultra 1000+ Platinum units not on this list?  They should be on at least A+ and are definitely recommended for both single and two card setups, as long as you aren't trying to do this on HEDT.

 

Not to mention some OEM's use Seasonic parts for their build (Corsair I think uses Seasonic and CWT and some others (Superflower?).

 

https://seasonic.com/prime-ultra-platinum

https://seasonic.com/prime-ultra-titanium

These should be A+ or it's complete sacrilege.

 

Here's one for rank S.

https://seasonic.com/prime-1300-w-platinum

[LukeSavenije]

2 minutes ago, Falkentyne said:

These should be A+ or it's complete sacrilege.

they're in tier a, as classified being prime

 

and if they would meet a+ requirements, they would

 

but tdlr: they don't

2 minutes ago, Falkentyne said:

Corsair I think uses Seasonic and CWT and some others (Superflower?).

the only thing SuperFlower and Seasonic is that part of their production is going to RSY (for seasonic i know a rather minor part), the only current seasonic is the AX Titanium

[Rexper]

On 10/24/2019 at 4:15 AM, LukeSavenije said:

Units may be bumped down due to the following methodology:

Everything in that list can be derived without reviews. Suggesting you don't even need reviews to tier PSUs in this list.

 

There are so many more aspects I would endeavour before purchasing a power supply.

[LukeSavenije]

18 minutes ago, Rexper said:

There are so many more aspects I would endeavour before purchasing a power supply.

i'm sorry, but we can't tier them all

[Jurrunio]

Any info on the Antec NeoECO Gold?

[LukeSavenije]

8 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Any info on the Antec NeoECO Gold?

it looks very similar to a focus gold to me...

 

edit: for context