[EOL] PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

[genexis_x]

Was wondering, if cheap PSUs like FSP HD and FSP Hyper K are offering 5 year warranty, wouldn't the company face higher losses due to failures?

[boghubodaghi]

3 minutes ago, genexis_x said:

Was wondering, if cheap PSUs like FSP HD and FSP Hyper K are offering 5 year warranty, wouldn't the company face higher losses due to failures?

They probably did the math and accept a lower (but not necessarily much lower) profit margins.

[Juular]

38 minutes ago, genexis_x said:

Was wondering, if cheap PSUs like FSP HD and FSP Hyper K are offering 5 year warranty, wouldn't the company face higher losses due to failures?

A cheap PSUs doesn't necessarily mean low quality, or bad PSU, as expensive PSU doesn't necessarily mean quality or good PSU. These PSUs are in the tier D not because they're exactly bad, but because they simply don't meet our standards for a PSU you should use today with a modern PC unless it's supposed to be dirt cheap. Mind you, in some metrics they are bad, for example most tier D units are group regulated and they wouldn't have a very good voltage regulation in a modern PC with extreme crossloads (very high load on 12V and very low load at 5V & 3.3V rails), most likely out of specifications even in dynamic load conditions. That's just one aspect, the full methodology is readily available in the spreadsheet so i wouldn't repeat it here.

[doubleflower]

@Juular @LukeSavenije Gamers Nexus has reviewed the Aresgame AGS850 and the review found out that the power ripple goes out of spec on the minor rails, and the PSU falsely claimed the unit's efficiency:

 

 

Might be better to downgrade to Tier E?

[electropical]

45 minutes ago, genexis_x said:

Was wondering, if cheap PSUs like FSP HD and FSP Hyper K are offering 5 year warranty, wouldn't the company face higher losses due to failures?

Statistically, even garbage PSUs rarely fail on their owners during the warranty period.
And even when they do, most people give up on sending it for RMA once they discover they have to pay the shipping fees.

Would you pay 100+ usds for RMA on a unit that cost you $75 brand new?
I sure wouldn't, buying a new one would be more affordable.

[Juular]

3 minutes ago, doubleflower said:

Gamers Nexus has reviewed the Aresgame AGS850

Yeah, as much as i don't really trust their PSU reviews yet because we don't have a reference frame on their ripple measurements and it's prone to noise, and there are other issues i'd like them to address before their reviews would be considered reputable - i'm considering to detier it, maybe tier D tho, not tier E.

[doubleflower]

7 minutes ago, Juular said:

Yeah, as much as i don't really trust their PSU reviews yet because we don't have a reference frame on their ripple measurements and it's prone to noise, and there are other issues i'd like them to address before their reviews would be considered reputable - i'm considering to detier it, maybe tier D tho, not tier E.

Yeah that's fine, seems like Tier D LP seems to be the way to go

[Samiur Rahman Mahee]

@LukeSavenije 

I wanna buy   " DEEPCOOL DQ650-M-V2L  "

for my core i7 11700 + 3060ti. I heard deepcool is a new entry in PSU line . I see the mentioned model on TIER B .

But the   "Dq750-m-v2l"  model is on TIER C LOW PRIORITY unit . So I am a bit afraid of buying PSU of the same lineup that has issues. 

What should I do?

Should I go with it ?

[IIIIIIIIII]

1 hour ago, Samiur Rahman Mahee said:

@LukeSavenije 

I wanna buy   " DEEPCOOL DQ650-M-V2L  "

for my core i7 11700 + 3060ti. I heard deepcool is a new entry in PSU line . I see the mentioned model on TIER B .

But the   "Dq750-m-v2l"  model is on TIER C LOW PRIORITY unit . So I am a bit afraid of buying PSU of the same lineup that has issues. 

What should I do?

Should I go with it ?

Sleeve bearing and some cheap primary side parts are the problem.

 

If there is no other alternative, I would choose it, but it's definitely not the best option.

[genexis_x]

3 hours ago, Juular said:

or example most tier D units are group regulated and they wouldn't have a very good voltage regulation in a modern PC with extreme crossloads (very high load on 12V and very low load at 5V & 3.3V rails), most likely out of specifications even in dynamic load conditions

problem is i see more and more mid range PCs (bundle of course) are pair with these cheap PSUs, at least in my country

[SuperFlower]

22 hours ago, Juular said:

Pretty much the only difference would be in the acoustic performance but yeah, why not.

Oh I don't mind the acoustics, could not hear my leadex II at all. 

Asking if its worth the upgrade in terms of quality or it is pretty much the same (minus rgb)

[Hida_Oni]

brought RM750i  from corsair in may, but didn't assembled til yesterday (no gpu, then was in hospital)
first it beeped like i have no gpu, after reboot it worked fine, installed windows, installed updates, even nvidia drivers (via win updater), and then started installing nvidia drivers with cp, during removing old drivers steep (when screen turns off) psu just exploded, and burnt smell could be felt even in another room. Somehow only psu stink, next day (today grabbed it to service center, where person just plugged it to outlet and told me "see, its working", i telling her that its crashed under load on which she told go and record on the video when it explode (yeah like i would install it again on 3k$ worth of hardware system and make it kill everything else there), so i gone back and somehow turned it to exchange. But when i talked with a friend who work on assembling pc's for at least 10+ years, he told me that corsair psu are pure garbage, and i made mistake by buying this overprices stuff. So idk, maybe old psu's didnt work well with Ampere cards or what? New system where i installed it are ryzen r5 5600x, strix b550-f mb, palit rtx 3070ti gamingpro, 2x16 ddr4 ram and 7(+2on cpu) fans.. judging by reviews anything older then second half of 2020 was never tested for inrush current (which are a thing with ampere) and could be bad with it.
so um, based on that, didn't that tier list need some updates with ampere in mind?

[electropical]

58 minutes ago, Hida_Oni said:

brought RM750i  from corsair in may, but didn't assembled til yesterday (no gpu, then was in hospital)
first it beeped like i have no gpu, after reboot it worked fine, installed windows, installed updates, even nvidia drivers (via win updater), and then started installing nvidia drivers with cp, during removing old drivers steep (when screen turns off) psu just exploded, and burnt smell could be felt even in another room. Somehow only psu stink, next day (today grabbed it to service center, where person just plugged it to outlet and told me "see, its working", i telling her that its crashed under load on which she told go and record on the video when it explode (yeah like i would install it again on 3k$ worth of hardware system and make it kill everything else there), so i gone back and somehow turned it to exchange. But when i talked with a friend who work on assembling pc's for at least 10+ years, he told me that corsair psu are pure garbage, and i made mistake by buying this overprices stuff. So idk, maybe old psu's didnt work well with Ampere cards or what? New system where i installed it are ryzen r5 5600x, strix b550-f mb, palit rtx 3070ti gamingpro, 2x16 ddr4 ram and 7(+2on cpu) fans.. judging by reviews anything older then second half of 2020 was never tested for inrush current (which are a thing with ampere) and could be bad with it.
so um, based on that, didn't that tier list need some updates with ampere in mind?

This needs its dedicated thread.

Short answer while we wait for a moderator to kindly split this into a separate thread :
Whoever told you Corsair PSUs are "pure garbage" has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.
The RM750i is one of the absolute best units on the market at that wattage, and belongs to one of the most reliable lineups available for Ampere GPUs.
(Inrush current has nothing to do with the graphics card, you're actually referring to transient spikes)

Failures happen, even with the best units.
If this isn't user error, and the culprit is the PSU, then I would contact Corsair for an RMA, their lab would probably be able to diagnose what actually happened.
@jonnyGURU @Corsair Nick

[Hida_Oni]

47 minutes ago, electropical said:

This needs its dedicated thread.

Short answer while we wait for a moderator to kindly split this into a separate thread :
Whoever told you Corsair PSUs are "pure garbage" has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.
The RM750i is one of the absolute best units on the market at that wattage, and belongs to one of the most reliable lineups available for Ampere GPUs.
(Inrush current has nothing to do with the graphics card, you're actually referring to transient spikes)

Failures happen, even with the best units.
If this isn't user error, and the culprit is the PSU, then I would contact Corsair for an RMA, their lab would probably be able to diagnose what actually happened.
@jonnyGURU @Corsair Nick

sadly i live in Russia, and it  would be real long and thorny rma. Somehow after that service center i visited another branch of that retailer and then took psu back and exchanged it.
I don't know how can it be my error, i more or less (i think more), connected everything fine and to proper cables. 
ps. also maybe its mainly in Russia where corsair products are "so so"

pps. on retailers site, that psu have one of the highest problem rates.

[Juular]

5 hours ago, Hida_Oni said:

brought RM750i  from corsair in may

From Corsair ? In Russia ? I may be wrong but i don't think there are any official distributors for Corsair in Russia, not to mention that they don't sell PSUs directly there. So you've bought from a retailer. Are you sure that unit was new, not refurbished or smth. And even if it was 'new', it may actually have been an old stock, since i haven't seen RM-i in stores in Russia for a while now. In any case, failures happen, that's what warranty is for, whether it's from a retailer or the brand directly.

5 hours ago, Hida_Oni said:

But when i talked with a friend who work on assembling pc's for at least 10+ years, he told me that corsair psu are pure garbage, and i made mistake by buying this overprices stuff.

Yeah, let me guess, he probably recommends even more overpriced Seasonic PSUs instead ? There were some problematic Corsair PSUs in the past, RM-i isn't one of them.

5 hours ago, Hida_Oni said:

judging by reviews anything older then second half of 2020 was never tested for inrush current (which are a thing with ampere) and could be bad with it.

Inrush current and transient load spikes are two vastly different things, and neither of these should result in the PSU exploding (if it's properly engineered at least, which RM-i is).

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Hida_Oni said:

sadly i live in Russia, and it  would be real long and thorny rma. Somehow after that service center i visited another branch of that retailer and then took psu back and exchanged it.
I don't know how can it be my error, i more or less (i think more), connected everything fine and to proper cables. 
ps. also maybe its mainly in Russia where corsair products are "so so"

pps. on retailers site, that psu have one of the highest problem rates.

Corsair PSUs in Russia are no different than Corsair PSUs in other countries.

 

And I seriously doubt that Corsair has the "highest problem rate" in Russia considering all the garbage brands Russia allows to be sold their (their "certification process" is essentially "pay the Russian mob".

 

And if the PSU blew up, it wouldn't have worked afterwards.  So you're sure it was the PSU and not something else?

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Juular said:

I may be wrong but i don't think there are any official distributors for Corsair in Russia

There are.  I pay Russian mafia hundred thousand ruble a year to say Corsair okie dokie comrade.  

[seasoniclover]

"[7] Older Seasonic Focus revisions (made before 2018) had transient sensitivity issues. Some new SKUs are not affected because they were released later (Seasonic Focus GM/GX/PX refreshes, Phanteks AMP, NZXT C/E etc.).
[8] Seasonic PRIME based units experience shutdowns with RTX3080/3090 (and possibly RX6900 XT) GPUs, especially ones with unlocked power limit like FE and ASUS Strix. It is recommended, if going with such units, to overprovision wattage, 1kW for RTX3080 and 1.2kW for RTX3090, or power-limit the GPU, or performing a 'dirty' fix of disconnecting a pin of 12V V-sense wire from PSU-side connector of 24-pin motherboard cable (courtesy of Jonny Guru). Units based on post-2018 revisions of Seasonic Focus platform and majority of units by other OEMs are not affected."

hello beautiful people i am at a loss here. about a month ago i purchased the Seasonic Prime-gx 850w(oneseasonic) model ( this one: https://seasonic.com/prime-gx ) which should indeed be part of the focus revision series right?, so i should have no issues with rtx 3080's like i described above or am i done for too? here is the discussion i had with a guy in reddit in which he told me my model was affected too, i wonder if he is right or am i right, thanks to whoever answers this, i also can't believe it but is jonny guru the psu legend guy here!? nice to see you're lurking around these parts man, nice work!

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by seasoniclover

[Juular]

34 minutes ago, seasoniclover said:

i wonder is he right am i right

He's right, kinda. We're still not sure if Prime GX 850W is affected, it should be since it's on Prime platform but most of the problems i've seen were on Prime Titanium. I guess you can just try it out and if it doesn't work then contact Seasonic, i've heard they ship different cables to fix the issue (probably without 12V V-sense).

[SavageNeo]

I have the 750w variant of the TT tough power grand gold sync edition. 

it was tier A singe rail. not its tier C (C+ in the spreadsheet). Its LLC and DC-DC. why it is at tier C? somethign wrong with it?

[seasoniclover]

23 minutes ago, Juular said:

He's right, kinda. We're still not sure if Prime GX 850W is affected, it should be since it's on Prime platform but most of the problems i've seen were on Prime Titanium. I guess you can just try it out and if it doesn't work then contact Seasonic, i've heard they ship different cables to fix the issue (probably without 12V V-sense).

yes i definitely should contact them to get an answer first hand. it's weird, since this is a little more expensive and also a higher end model than the focus gx. mine is pretty new probably made around late 2020 or early 2021

[Juular]

47 minutes ago, SavageNeo said:

I have the 750w variant of the TT tough power grand gold sync edition. 

it was tier A singe rail. not its tier C (C+ in the spreadsheet). Its LLC and DC-DC. why it is at tier C? somethign wrong with it?

It's unclear whether the OTP on it just not reliable or set very high, past Aris's 200°C testing range at which point it really becomes pointless. But there are also some concerns about the accuracy of Aris's OTP tests, voiced by JonnuGURU so i'd move it to tier A LP since out of two reviews Aris did on it, in one it actually passed OTP at 180°C.

[SavageNeo]

1 hour ago, Juular said:

It's unclear whether the OTP on it just not reliable or set very high, past Aris's 200°C testing range at which point it really becomes pointless. But there are also some concerns about the accuracy of Aris's OTP tests, voiced by JonnuGURU so i'd move it to tier A LP since out of two reviews Aris did on it, in one it actually passed OTP at 180°C.

oh. so this has like EVGA G3 issues(protection issues)? well i have well ventialted case with 5700XT so no problems there then  

[Juular]

40 minutes ago, SavageNeo said:

well i have well ventialted case with 5700XT so no problems there then  

Yeah, if you already have it then it's fine, it's not like it's going to blow up any second or smth (unless you're really pushing it past it's rated operating conditions).

[Hida_Oni]

20 hours ago, Juular said:

From Corsair ? In Russia ? I may be wrong but i don't think there are any official distributors for Corsair in Russia, not to mention that they don't sell PSUs directly there. So you've bought from a retailer. Are you sure that unit was new, not refurbished or smth. And even if it was 'new', it may actually have been an old stock, since i haven't seen RM-i in stores in Russia for a while now. In any case, failures happen, that's what warranty is for, whether it's from a retailer or the brand directly.

 

I just found DNS (where i brought psu) are on the list of RU resellers on Corsair site. But yeah, its probably from some dusty warehouse, or some small city where it was for years..