It sees you when you're sleeping, don't care if you're awake - Pixel 4 face unlock unlocks your phone regardless if the user is alert or alive

[Rupe]

37 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

My One Plus 6 unlocks with my eyes closed too. It was one of the first things I tested.

Yes but google has removed other authentication methods such as finger print scanner and advertised their fancy dot projector/radar approach. So the reasonable expectation is that it would match the quality of face unlock of other flagship phones with similar technology such as the iPhone. As it turns out, it appears to not

[SpaceGhostC2C]

*user: chooses a lock that favors convenience over security

*also user: worries that lock is not secure

[Dedayog]

2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Why would you have your banking info on your phone if you cared about security at all. Nudes seems like a dumb choice as well. Conversations I guess but who would be interested in that? Same with Instagram and snapchat I don't see why anyone would want to hack someone's phone to get access to those. 

There's a reason for the addage that Knowledge is Power.  Information is king.

 

I'm sure even your non-exciting phone would allow someone to wreak havoc on your life if they wanted.  Email spoofing to friends and family, account information for utilities in your email, job searches to send to your current employer, those racist and funny jokes and memes we all share, sending the naked pics you got from your girlfriend to everyone and porn sites, etc etc etc.

 

We all have our private lives.  Blackmail is a thing.  Might have heard of it

[RejZoR]

24 minutes ago, 7412 said:

What's the point of face ID? It unlocks without you even wanting to unlock. 

Under-display fingerprint scanners are already easy and fast. And they ditch the top bezel as well.

Because your face is always there if you have intent to use the device. You need to specifically place finger on a very specific spot to use fingerprint. That's why.

 

Yes, it sometimes unlocks itself if you glance at the phone screen when awaken unintentionally. But do you know what happens when it's awaken unintentionately with fingerprint scanner? After few fails, it requires a PIN. Which quickly becomes quite irritating when you're expecting a fingerprint unlock, but you need to enter the PIN instead. FaceID has that sometime, sure, but far less often than it happened with fingerprint scanners.

[7412]

16 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

But do you know what happens when it's awaken unintentionately with fingerprint scanner?

So...when you place your finger at that "very specific spot" unintentionately then? What you're saying makes no sense sir.

[RejZoR]

4 minutes ago, 7412 said:

So...when you place your finger at that "very specific spot" unintentionately then? What you're saying makes no sense sir.

Do you only hold your phone on its sides and never ever touch its screen or its back (wherever the fingerprint scanner is located)? I find that VERY hard to believe... Coz if you press your palm at the fingerprint scanner, like holding your phone across the screen, it'll think it's finger and trigger the scanner and fail to authenticate coz palm has no fingerprint. Failing enough times and you'll be asked to enter PIN, defeating convenience of the scanner... And if it's not doing that, it means you need to press wake button manually just to fire up the finger scanning process. I literally just raise the phone and it unlocks. No buttons, no placing of fingers on just right spots. My old phone had one of fastest fingerprint scanners on the market and the FaceID, even when it was slower under iOS 12 is just so nice to use only people who never experienced it call it useless or question its existence. I only worried how fast it'll be given I had really fast one before. Turns out even slight dela yon iOS 12 wasn't an issue. Now on iOS 13 it's lightning fast and with pretty much flawless experience.

[Brooksie359]

4 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

I can assure you any bit of information you can get about someone is extremely useful, especially with conversations. Blackmail is a thing that exists and having access to people's opinions, photos, and conversations is the perfect ammo. Everyone has at least one piece of information or conversation that would strain a relationship with a coworker, get a person fired from a job, cause them to lose a friend, or other negative social consequences. 

I disagree. There isn't a single bit of comprising info on my phone especially when it comes to text conversations. Anything conversations that is sensitive enough to be compromising has been over a phone call like a normal person. I honestly call more than I text because texting is such an inefficient form of communication. Most of the time my text to people is for them to call me. Also I find it hard to believe that even if one had some sensitive information that it would be bad enough to properly blackmail someone with. It would have to be some pretty compromising. The best security for your phone is to not have comprising info on it in the first place. 

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

PINs are annoying if you want them to be really secure. It's not hard to figure out a 4 digit PIN, and once you start approaching ~8 then it becomes annoying if you unlock your phone often. I average about 60 unlocks a day on my phone. Every second I shave off my unlock time translates to another minute saved a day.

 

As for things on my phone someone would want to get a hold of:

• Private conversations such as SMS.
• Private images (not nudes, but other private images).
• It's used in a lot of 2FA setups I got. So if you got my phone you got half of what you need to enter a lot of my accounts.
• Speaking of accounts, I am logged in to several accounts on my phone at all time. Get my phone and you can access stuff like my email, which in turn means you can reset my passwords on other services and get access to them.
• Possibly logged data like where I have been (GPS history) and where I will be (calendar).
• Phone and email information to not just my friends and family, but also work partners and colleagues.
• Other sensitive sensitive information like health data.

Well that seems pretty dumb. I log into my accounts every time that way nobody can get into them if they get my phone. I don't understand how someone's conversations would be of an issue. I can't think of a single thing that I have had a conversation about that would be bad if someone saw it. I guess they might get phone numbers of people I know but that's about it. 

[Beskamir]

[NumLock21]

I assume it just scans your entire face and there is no iris scanning so it will unlock even with eyes close. Can someone test with their iPhones that uses FaceID.

[Kilrah]

15 hours ago, 7412 said:

So...when you place your finger at that "very specific spot" unintentionately then? What you're saying makes no sense sir.

My phone partially wakes up anytime it's moved, and tries to scan what's on the sensor whether there's actually anything there or not. I pretty often take it out of my pocket and have to rely on face unlock or pin becasue it has woken up and scanned nothing enough times to deactivate the fingerprint sensor for a minute.

[RedRound2]

19 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

I don't even get this whole arms race of biometrics. I just use a pin and it seems to work fine. Also why in the world is everyone so freaked out about the security of their phone? I can't think of a single thing on my phone that I would be worried about if someone got ahold of it. 

Entering pin 80 times a day is inconvenient. I knew so many people who had their phone without any passcode before biometrics became a thing. Second, getting access a casual user's phone is probably the biggest privacy breach of our day. Your banks are tied to your number, personal chats, that I wouldn't want anyone seeing, so many private photos (not nudes) but a lot of intimate ones, with friends, etc. Access to all social media accounts and giving you control over it, and you could potentially wreck anyone with that kind of power.

 

We get it that you probably don't enjoy theses aspects of life, but a vast majority do and it's incorrect to generalize what you feel to others. Biometrics became ubiquitous because it was a runaway success among consumers

17 hours ago, Mihle said:

My phone is unlocked even before the front points towards me because when I pick I up my finger is already on the sensor in my pocket.

I see this comment all the time, and it's usually from people who haven't used good face unlock systems like the iPhones. Trust me, even I had the same opinion until I tried it extensively, and man passive unlock is definitely the future. Directly replying to your comment, it requires you to actually do that particular action of placing the finger on the right spot. Also, forget about fingerprint if your hands are wet or have gloves on or something. It becomes a hassle. But with face ID, it just does its thing and you dont even have to think about it for a microsecond.

16 hours ago, 7412 said:

What's the point of face ID? It unlocks without you even wanting to unlock. 

Under-display fingerprint scanners are already easy and fast. And they ditch the top bezel as well.

It unlocks the phone, so what? It doesn't blow past the lockscreen. You interact with your phone normally, pick up the phone, see your notifications, swipe up to goto home screen (or tap notification to directly go into the app). But in the background, your face and attention is verified, and in case it isn't you, the phone locks itself out. That's pretty much the future, and we already have it, at least on iPhones.

5 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

I assume it just scans your entire face and there is no iris scanning so it will unlock even with eyes close. Can someone test with their iPhones that uses FaceID.

Do you really think nobody has tested unlocking iPhones with someone sleeping after 3 years? This would have probably been the first thing a lot people did with their new iPhone. And I have also done this personally where the iPhone doesn't unlock when I point at my friends face, and she looks away with her eyes.

 

And, if in some world, this was Apple here, this thread would have gone insane. But it's pixel, so it's okay right.

 

Pixel 4 is probably the most pathetic phone of 2019

[Mihle]

2 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

I see this comment all the time, and it's usually from people who haven't used good face unlock systems like the iPhones. Trust me, even I had the same opinion until I tried it extensively, and man passive unlock is definitely the future. Directly replying to your comment, it requires you to actually do that particular action of placing the finger on the right spot. Also, forget about fingerprint if your hands are wet or have gloves on or something. It becomes a hassle. But with face ID, it just does its thing and you dont even have to think about it for a microsecond.

I don't think about placing the finger on the right spot. As it is on the perfect place on the back of the phone, my finger just automatically happen to end up there when I pick it up from the pocket. That's is also why I do not want fingerprint scanner that is under the screen, because even if I haven't used it personally, it looks like to me that would not happen and you would have to think about placing finger right place after its up. Not like the right position on the back where I don't think about it at all. It's passive unlock.

 

Also gloves, I am a kind of person that do not wear thin gloves, I either don't have it or have ticker gloves, and if you have ticker gloves (or thinner ones that isn't made to use in touch screen) you would have to remove a glove no matter what, so it doesn't matter.

My hands isn't wet hen using my phone. My hair being wet and bigish drops of water getting in the screen from it and therefore making the touch screen confused is a much bigger problem. (Small drops don't do anything but larger ones do)

 

Do face unlock work when you are in a completely dark room?

[Sauron]

BIometrics - how to infinitely complicate an already solved problem

[xAcid9]

My 2 years old Mate 10 will unlock with one eye close but not both. Very fast as well.

 

How it this a new feature for late 2019 flagship? 

[RedRound2]

2 hours ago, Mihle said:

I don't think about placing the finger on the right spot. As it is on the perfect place on the back of the phone, my finger just automatically happen to end up there when I pick it up from the pocket. That's is also why I do not want fingerprint scanner that is under the screen, because even if I haven't used it personally, it looks like to me that would not happen and you would have to think about placing finger right place after its up. Not like the right position on the back where I don't think about it at all. It's passive unlock.

It's not about thinking, its just doing. Even I dont have to think about where to place my finger on my in screen fingerprint, but I still have to do something. And I find back of the phone inconvenient because you cannot use your phone when its laying flat. Face unlock solves both these problems.

 

Another case is when you have to fill in your credentials. With Touch ID, you have to manually place your finger on the home button to authorize, but with face ID you're authorized in before you even know what happened, paving a way to a clean, simple yet secure user interface. On android, they dont even ask for any credentials, so it's stupidly unsecure, even on Android 10 

2 hours ago, Mihle said:

Also gloves, I am a kind of person that do not wear thin gloves, I either don't have it or have ticker gloves, and if you have ticker gloves (or thinner ones that isn't made to use in touch screen) you would have to remove a glove no matter what, so it doesn't matter.

Just because you don't doesn't mean no one does. Generalizing your use case to everyone to make a point is a very weak argument. Doctors, nurses regularly use thin gloves and for them its a pain in the ass, especially when its also quite difficult to remove the thinner gloves and be forced to dispose the old one take another one

2 hours ago, Mihle said:

My hands isn't wet hen using my phone. My hair being wet and bigish drops of water getting in the screen from it and therefore making the touch screen confused is a much bigger problem. (Small drops don't do anything but larger ones do)

Well, again generalization. My hands could be wet out sweat. I keep my phone in my jeans pocket and sometimes on a hot day, the screen and the fingerprint reader might get a bit wet because of the sweat, and it never works then. Its very frustrating.

2 hours ago, Mihle said:

Do face unlock work when you are in a completely dark room?

YES. Obviously. iPhones uses IR and it doesn't matter if you're in a brightly lit environment or dark. Again, its very clear to me that you have no knowledge about any of these things and you've never used it. Use it and get back to me. There's a reason why there are so many articles on why people feel like they should never need to go back to fingerprints.

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

BIometrics - how to infinitely complicate an already solved problem

Tell that to an old person. Remembering a 4 digit PIN that is. Or telling them to place finger HERE...

[Sauron]

Just now, RejZoR said:

Tell that to an old person. Remembering a 4 digit PIN that is. Or telling them to place finger HERE...

Don't old people use credit cards? If someone is at the point where a 4 digit pin is too much to remember they are no longer self sufficient anyway. My grandmothers are around 80 and neither of them has this problem, in fact they're used to remembering entire phone numbers by heart.

[RejZoR]

18 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Don't old people use credit cards? If someone is at the point where a 4 digit pin is too much to remember they are no longer self sufficient anyway. My grandmothers are around 80 and neither of them has this problem, in fact they're used to remembering entire phone numbers by heart.

Old people mostly prefer cash even when they are fully self sufficient or whatever.

[Mihle]

49 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

It's not about thinking, its just doing. Even I dont have to think about where to place my finger on my in screen fingerprint, but I still have to do something. And I find back of the phone inconvenient because you cannot use your phone when its laying flat. Face unlock solves both these problems.

I dont do anything other than pick the phone up, I dont move my finger to activate it, not even subconsciously, it just happens to be the place where my finger naturally is when holding my phone.  With under screen one you would have to move your thumb to the right place after picking it up. I would never want fingerprint on the front of the phone.
I dont use the phone while it lays flat at all, never, that just seems uncomfortable to me or whatever the right word for it is. and can face unlock really detect on a 45* angle or whatever??

Quote

Another case is when you have to fill in your credentials. With Touch ID, you have to manually place your finger on the home button to authorize, but with face ID you're authorized in before you even know what happened, paving a way to a clean, simple yet secure user interface. On android, they dont even ask for any credentials, so it's stupidly unsecure, even on Android 10 

No, I dont have to move any fingers if its on the back of the phone, as my finger is already on it. I do need to just lift the finger and put it down on the same place tho but it doesnt matter to me. If you talk about as in paying in stores with phone, that isnt really available in my country yet anyway.... (just tap a normal card is tho)

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Just because you don't doesn't mean no one does. Generalizing your use case to everyone to make a point is a very weak argument. Doctors, nurses regularly use thin gloves and for them its a pain in the ass, especially when its also quite difficult to remove the thinner gloves and be forced to dispose the old one take another one

Well, again generalization. My hands could be wet out sweat. I keep my phone in my jeans pocket and sometimes on a hot day, the screen and the fingerprint reader might get a bit wet because of the sweat, and it never works then. Its very frustrating.

I never said anything about other people, I have just said WHAT I PERSONALLY PREFER. If you think I did talk about other people than me, then you should really go back and read what I wrote because then its obvious that you didnt really read what I wrote....

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YES. Obviously. iPhones uses IR and it doesn't matter if you're in a brightly lit environment or dark. Again, its very clear to me that you have no knowledge about any of these things and you've never used it. Use it and get back to me. There's a reason why there are so many articles on why people feel like they should never need to go back to fingerprints.

Its just that it had absolute zero benefits that would effect me, and neither does fingerprint on the back have any negatives that affect me. I would never want fingerprint on the front of the phone.

 

Why cant phones just have fingerprint sensor on the back AND face unlock so you can choose yourselves what you want to use? No phone seem to do that.... (I know some have under screen and face, but not back of the phone and face)

[ZacoAttaco]

On 10/18/2019 at 11:22 PM, rcmaehl said:

Google's...support website tells customers: "Your phone can also be unlocked by someone else if it's held up to your face, even if your eyes are closed." It says concerned customers can switch on "lockdown" mode - which deactivates facial recognition - when they want enhanced security.

Yeah...that's not really a solution Google. That's just disabling the feature for 'security'.

22 hours ago, 7412 said:

What's the point of face ID? It unlocks without you even wanting to unlock. 

Under-display fingerprint scanners are already easy and fast. And they ditch the top bezel as well.

Agreed. I think MKBHD summarised it best; fingerprint biometrics are the perfect combination of security and convience.

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

BIometrics - how to infinitely complicate an already solved problem

I understand your point of view, that passcodes are already more secure but I also do feel that biometrics have their place. Especially when implemented correctly. Maybe for a smartphone they're perhaps less secure and more 'beatable' but I think in some commercial applications biometrics have their place.

[Mihle]

6 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Old people mostly prefer cash even when they are fully self sufficient or whatever.

My gradmother (dads side) and grandfather (mums side) prefer cards like most people in my country, not everyone tho, 90%+ of transactions in stores happen with card

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

I understand your point of view, that passcodes are already more secure but I also do feel that biometrics have their place. Especially when implemented correctly. Maybe for a smartphone they're perhaps less secure and more 'beatable' but I think in some commercial applications biometrics have their place.

They have a "place" in that they're marginally more convenient and that's all a lot of people care about. Things like bank applications are often locked behind their own pin code anyway so for most people phone security just isn't that important. Which is why I don't get all the fuss about things like this - if you really care about security beyond not letting your brother read your texts then you should never use biometrics anyway, whereas if you don't then the ability to unlock it with your sleeping face is inconsequential.

 

I wonder how many people know you can reset a computer's password using the windows repair medium when the bios isn't locked... and yet that has never been considered news, whereas this is reported like a big deal. Biometric security is fundamentally flawed and we should all just accept that; it's just never going to be as secure as a password or even a pin code and it's vastly more complex to implement correctly. That's fine in a lot of situations, you just need to realize what you're dealing with.

[MrFixitBlankFace]

Badguy: *murders good guy for his phone*

Badguy: *holds phone to good guy’s face to unlock it*

[ZacoAttaco]

9 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I wonder how many people know you can reset a computer's password using the windows repair medium when the bios isn't locked... and yet that has never been considered news, whereas this is reported like a big deal.

You know, I had heard about this but wasn't sure on the specific details. You make a good point, the media likes to take a story and run with it because it has mass appeal. Even if there are far more ergegious examples out there.