Apple credit card fraud found.. that was quick

[GoodBytes]

Touted by Apple as a super secure credit card with its lack of numbers on the card, making it harder to copy, 9To5Mac reports a story of a user that has its card used in another state at the same time. Apple rep, when asked about the issue said it was a "very rare" occurance. And pushed again with the idea that the card has no number therefore safe. That said, as noted by the news source, card skimmers is a thing, the card has a magnetic strip and no secure chip + pin system (common issue with US credit cards), making it easy to copy.

 

Quote

David asked the Apple representative for more details about how this happened, but they didn’t have any answers beyond saying the situation was “very rare.”

 

While the Apple rep noted how the lack of numbers helps with security and preventing fraudulent purchases, the physical Apple Card still has a magnetic stripe along with a chip.

 

The most likely answer for how a thief in another state was using the card is that the titanium Apple Card is susceptible to skimming devices and cloning just like any other credit or debit card. Thieves will often target gas stations and other easily accessible credit card readers to try and install skimming devices.

 

In my opinion, it doesn't takes an experts to know that a popular method to steal credit card is the use of card skimmers who simply reads and copy the magnetic strip.

 

 

Source: https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/09/apple-card-security-cloning/

[Fnige]

I mean, theyre getting there, its just that its harder to make it unhackable than just no numbers

[wafflehaus]

14 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Touted by Apple as a super secure credit card with its lack of numbers on the card, making it harder to copy, 9To5Mac reports a story of a user that has its card used in another state at the same time. Apple rep, when asked about the issue said it was a "very rare" occurance. And pushed again with the idea that the card has no number therefore safe. That said, as noted by the news source, card skimmers is a thing, the card has a magnetic strip and no secure chip + pin system (common issue with US credit cards), making it easy to copy.

 

In my opinion, it doesn't takes an experts to know that a popular method to steal credit card is the use of card skimmers who simply reads and copy the magnetic strip.

 

 

Source: https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/09/apple-card-security-cloning/

Wait-- The Apple Credit cards are still using Magstripes? In 2019? Bloody hell,  as an Australian this blows my mind. We've been on chip-and-pin for years.

[dizmo]

8 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

seriously, when is the magstripe going to die ._. (also when will ATMs accept Google and Apple pay ._.)

They'll hold onto it as long as they can, just like Imperial measurement.

I've always assumed they haven't switched over to a chip system because, in some way, fraud has some twisted advantage for the large companies.

[spartaman64]

wait apple cards dont have a chip? WTF???

edit: nvm it just doesnt have a pin with it

[bcredeur97]

it still has a magnetic strip... so it's very easy to steal. just go rig up a gas pump

Also this brings to mind a topic... WHY THE HECK ARE LIKE ALL GAS STATIONS IN THE US STILL USING MAGNETIC STRIPS?!

 

chip and pin is almost everywhere... except at the pump. which is literally the easiest thing to rig up a skimmer to... Like seriously?

[mxk]

24 minutes ago, dizmo said:

They'll hold onto it as long as they can, just like Imperial measurement.

I've always assumed they haven't switched over to a chip system because, in some way, fraud has some twisted advantage for the large companies.

its funny because chips get used almost everywhere I go when I use my chase debit card, just like how I use metric when I'm in any class for a lab or something but sometimes I still gotta swipe my card

 

like when I have to use inches 

[Donut417]

39 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

when is the magstripe going to die

When mom and pop merchants get in to the 21st century. Some places still dont do the chip in the US. Also, some major retailers dont do Apple or Google pay. Walmart being a prime example. Because they have to be diffrent and do Walmart pay, but I dont want my card details on 30 diffrent payment apps. 

 

29 minutes ago, dizmo said:

always assumed they haven't switched over to a chip system because, in some way, fraud has some twisted advantage for the large companies.

No. Some merchants just use ancent tech. Or some just dont see the benifit of swtiching. Like Fast Food, i mean if fraud happens, the resteraunt would be liabel for the amount. Seeing how they generally deal in small amounts, its not an issue for most places. 

[Donut417]

9 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

WHY THE HECK ARE LIKE ALL GAS STATIONS IN THE US STILL USING MAGNETIC STRIPS?!

Because new readers would cost money. Simple. 

[Beowulff83]

24 minutes ago, dizmo said:

They'll hold onto it as long as they can, just like Imperial measurement.

Welcome to my hell, we only half converted.  Depends on the project you are working on you need metric or imperial. . . sometimes both!  I swear i think retailers are the culprits, they realized they could sell double the amount of tools if we used both types of measurements.  

 

31 minutes ago, wafflehaus said:

using Magstripes? In 2019? Bloody hell,  as an Australian this blows my mind. We've been on chip-and-pin for years.

Well to be fair the chip readers were awful when they first deployed them.  Everyone hated it because of that and slow to adopt.  So once again we are in a land of in between.  We have both chips and mag strips on our cards.   Want to buy some groceries use the chip, unless its broken then you swipe.  Fuel up and pay at the pump its usually a mag strip.

 

But all in all its still pretty good to be in the USA, I hear our round up ready soy is pretty tasty.   

[GoodBytes]

 

8 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Because new readers would cost money. Simple. 

It is more than that. You need to be certified merchant, and the company that a merchant deals with (and also any other companies that this company deals with) needs to be certified. This is more money.. and what does the merchant gains from the all this? Nothing much really. The merchant is only helping the banks and credit card machine holders. So why upgrade to more costly machines? I mean sure they may lose money (which they might have insurance that covers a big chuck of it, depending on the size of the business), but realistically, a business owner probably have 1 or less per year fraud charges. Is it worth paying the premium and going through the whole headache to get a chip compatible machine? Looks like the answer is no, at least as we speak.

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

business owner probably have 1 or less per year fraud

Not at gas stations in Metro Detroit. Credit card skimmers at gas stations is a big time thing around here. What even more fucked up is you have to pay more per gallon to use a card and have it potentially stolen. Some stations like Shell allow you to pay via their app, which I do some times. But most station owners probably dont give a fuck. Plus some station owners/Employees are in on the fraud. 

[GoodBytes]

40 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Not at gas stations in Metro Detroit. Credit card skimmers at gas stations is a big time thing around here. What even more fucked up is you have to pay more per gallon to use a card and have it potentially stolen. Some stations like Shell allow you to pay via their app, which I do some times. But most station owners probably dont give a fuck. Plus some station owners/Employees are in on the fraud. 

Card skimmers added on gas station machines doesn't affect the merchant. They get their money. The transaction was legit. Just someone put a skimmer device in between.

So they are not affected by anything. While I am sure they are, I don't think most people who has a copied of a credit card will go for 40$ or whatever of fuel and some snacks. They'll go for big ticket items instead, especially that you know that you probably have 1 chance before the card is blocked.

[ZacoAttaco]

In Australia, Apple Pay/Android Pay is common and 'Chip and Pin' is very common. Hardly see anyone using the magstripe these days. I use Apple products, but this seems to be a pretty typica Apple story. 'This new feature is so secure, it can't be broken'. Two weeks later, said feature is bypassed.

[Mihle]

I haven't used the stripe in maybe two years, and that two years ago was only one time because there was some problems with the chip thing in that store they hadn't fixed yet. Before that probably multiple years before that to find the next one.

[WereCatf]

4 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

the card has a magnetic strip and no secure chip + pin system

[RejZoR]

We've had cards with chip for AGES in our tiny Slovenia. And it's been years now that we have contactless chip cards. I'm not really sure if magnetic strip is actually present. It looks like there is, but I'm not sure it really is and is not just a graphic on a card... This includes debit cards as well as Mastercard. Only one local bank credit card is using only magnetic strip and that's about it.

 

And as far as I know card fraud has dropped dramatically since introduction. If I'm honest I'm not even sure how they do it now. I don't think skimming a chipped card is as easy as magnetic one and only ones that can be is something like Mastercard being used for online purchase in stores without 3D security which requires secondary authentication via phone. So it becomes incredibly narrow to abuse really.

 

You'd expect USA to be way ahead in this regard given their hyper consumerism...

[Anomnomnomaly]

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Touted by Apple as a super secure credit card with its lack of numbers on the card, making it harder to copy, 9To5Mac reports a story of a user that has its card used in another state at the same time. Apple rep, when asked about the issue said it was a "very rare" occurance. And pushed again with the idea that the card has no number therefore safe. That said, as noted by the news source, card skimmers is a thing, the card has a magnetic strip and no secure chip + pin system (common issue with US credit cards), making it easy to copy.

 

 

In my opinion, it doesn't takes an experts to know that a popular method to steal credit card is the use of card skimmers who simply reads and copy the magnetic strip.

 

 

Source: https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/09/apple-card-security-cloning/

Cards in the UK are ALL chip & pin and have been for ages, they're even trialling ones with fingerprint chips in them. You can use contactless pay with these cards on transactions under £30, over that and you need to enter your pin. I think it's the same across the whole of Europe now.

 

Because of the RFID in cards, I got myself a wallet that blocks the signal so no one could stand behind me and try to read the card data... I recommend everyone does that.

[Gegger]

i'm waiting for more digital wallet things

 

one thing i like about china is basically the 2 most used payment forms are cash, and digital wallet(WePay from wechat, AliPay)

[RedRound2]

3 hours ago, ZacoAttaco said:

 'This new feature is so secure, it can't be broken'. Two weeks later, said feature is bypassed.

 

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Touted by Apple as a super secure credit card with its lack of numbers on the card, making it harder to copy, 9To5Mac reports a story of a user that has its card used in another state at the same time. Apple rep, when asked about the issue said it was a "very rare" occurance. And pushed again with the idea that the card has no number therefore safe. That said,

It's not Apple's fault that they have to rely on the outdated magnetic strip to maintain compatibility. And the flaw is inherent to technology, so it really shouldn't have been a surprise. That said, it is more secure than a normal card with numbers on it, as it could be captured by a photo or video of it, but this one requires special equipment.

 

And AFAIK, it only seems to be the US stuck with magnetic strip cards while countries like India have mandated chip based cards a while back, while making magnetic strip inoperable. Correct me if I'm wrong, but once superpower US seems to be the one lagging behind in everything these days, from green energy, electric cars, mobile payments, app based economy and stores, etc. But that's a whole other topic

 

Also, the whole point of Apple Card is to push users to pay with their phone, which is far more safer than all the previous methods. And it only takes common sense to derive that fact as Apple is basically offering financial incentive of 2-3% on Apple Pay on iPhone compared to the poor 1% with the card. And they made sure the card looked iconic and premium, so people would actually join the program and overcome the first obstacle of using it.

 

In my opinion, the Apple Card is probably one of the most underrated new service Apple has offered that subconsciously is helping the industry move forward with complete mobile payments. I just wish it would launch in more countries pretty soon.

 

This is a great video by PhoneBuff explaining why Apple Card even exists

 

 

[FezBoy]

10 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

Cards in the UK are ALL chip & pin and have been for ages, they're even trialling ones with fingerprint chips in them. You can use contactless pay with these cards on transactions under £30, over that and you need to enter your pin. I think it's the same across the whole of Europe now.

 

Because of the RFID in cards, I got myself a wallet that blocks the signal so no one could stand behind me and try to read the card data... I recommend everyone does that.

The RFID in your card doesn't transmit the card number and stuff like the magstripe, it actually does encryption like the chip.  For my U.S. debit card anyways, contactless payments always ask for the PIN, and the card practically has to be touching the reader.  IMO, RFID skimming is really a non issue played up by companies trying to sell you more expensive wallets.

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, Beowulff83 said:

Well to be fair the chip readers were awful when they first deployed them.  Everyone hated it because of that and slow to adopt.  So once again we are in a land of in between.  We have both chips and mag strips on our cards.   Want to buy some groceries use the chip, unless its broken then you swipe.  Fuel up and pay at the pump its usually a mag strip.

 

But all in all its still pretty good to be in the USA, I hear our round up ready soy is pretty tasty.   

Not in Australia they weren't and the uptake was very quick.   We only have magnetic strip as a backup if the chip fails so strip readers are essentially useless here unless you steal the card first.

 

15 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

 

It's not Apple's fault that they have to rely on the outdated magnetic strip to maintain compatibility.

But it is their fault for advertising it as more secure yet using the same bloody technology. 

[RedRound2]

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

But it is their fault for advertising it as more secure yet using the same bloody technology. 

Please, quote me where they said it was unhackable or impossible to hack, or anything that implied the same. It IS more safer than a traditional card. And when you look from a bird's eye view, they are pushing those same customers to use more safer means to transact, forgetting about other features like reminders for payments etc

[yolosnail]

26 minutes ago, FezBoy said:

The RFID in your card doesn't transmit the card number and stuff like the magstripe, it actually does encryption like the chip.  For my U.S. debit card anyways, contactless payments always ask for the PIN, and the card practically has to be touching the reader.  IMO, RFID skimming is really a non issue played up by companies trying to sell you more expensive wallets.

It does, If you download an app that can read them and tap it on the back of your phone, you get the number on your card and expiry date, which is all you need to use the card. 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Please, quote me where they said it was unhackable or impossible to hack, or anything that implied the same. It IS more safer than a traditional card. And when you look from a bird's eye view, they are pushing those same customers to use more safer means to transact, forgetting about other features like reminders for payments etc

 

Just pointing out that you can't use tech limitations to excuse poor marketing.