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Intel Concedes HEDT, Practically slashes pricing in half with Cascade Lake X

13 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Intel mixes & matches, and they keep rolling out minor tweaks. At this point, there's no real logical sense to the + naming scheme.

That’s not true, each step has had some node changes.

 

Wikichip:

Intel's 14 nm process has gone through multiple refinements optimizing higher clock speed, higher drive current, and lower power dissipation. The original "14nm" was used for their Broadwell and mainstream Skylake processors. They improved on their original process with a second process, "14nm+", offering 12% higher drive current at lower power. That process has been used for both Kaby Lake and Server/HEDT Skylake SP/X processors.

A third improved process, "14nm++", is set to begin in late 2017 and will further allow for +23-24% higher drive current for 52% less power vs the original 14nm process. The 14nm++ process also appear to have slightly relaxed poly pitch of 84 nm (from 70 nm). It's unknown what impact, if any, this will have on the density.

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Competition is a beautiful thing.

That's a lot of profit being lifted straight out of Intel's pockets. Goes to show how crazy good the margins Intel must have had over the last decade.

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So very predictable.

 

Intel: *Does anything*

 

This Forum: 

Image result for angry npc

 

 

Are people not happy they are cutting prices? is it a bad thing or something?

 

 

Judge the product by its own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

Don't dilute <good thing> by always trying to focus on, and drag conversation back to, <bad thing>.

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2 minutes ago, Arika S said:

So very predictable.

 

Intel: *Does anything*

 

This Forum: 

Image result for angry npc

 

 

Are people not happy they are cutting prices? is it a bad thing or something?

 

 

We're not impressed at something that should have happened two years ago, that's the real gist here. The 2000$ price tag never made any sense and this just proves Intel have realised how absurd it is. Like GN Said, AMD control the market and now Intel are reacting rather than acting - by releasing refreshes (copy-pasta style) of the last generation with lower prices.

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Gordon (PCWorld) pointed out something delighting in their coverage:

 

The people who bought into Kabylake-X on X299 has a freaking drop-in upgrade* for half the price. Talk about playing the long game O_O
 

*unless it's the few boards that don't support SKLX at all. I think it's only a single MSI motherboard

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3 hours ago, MeatFeastMan said:

Intel is back! They've finally woken up and smelt the coffee. (Couldn't resist)

 

The question though is..will it be enough? AMD can now respond to this and price the 24 core how they want. They price that 24 core at $1000 or even $1050-1100 and Intel is still in trouble. The 24 core is an absolute monster of a chip and will wipe the floor with Cascade Lake X in the performance charts.

 

From what I've seen, Cascade Lake X has a nice clock increase..but in terms of IPC there isn't much, and it's still 14nm. Power consumption certainly won't look pretty on these parts either. I wouldn't be surprised if the 24 core consumes less than even something like the 12c and 14c parts.

 

But fair play to Intel. They knew $2000 wasn't going to cut it this time around. This a big moment. Intel is now going to come back with a vengeance in the next few years. For now, Zen3 should be enough to fend off Intel's next wave of CPU's..but after that AMD is going to need to brace for impact cause when Intel means business, they don't hold back.

 

 

 

 

 

AMD is in such a good spot they could slot a 24c TR g3 at 950 to put the knife deeper into the wound. AMD has a huge price wiggle room. 

if you want to annoy me, then join my teamspeak server ts.benja.cc

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11 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

AMD control the market and now Intel are reacting rather than acting

Because as everyone has already pointed out, and i do agree with, they are not ready to release anything but another refresh, they are doing the only thing they actually can. They nowhere near close to going full production on 10nm. so it was either release a rushed product (and be condemned for it), release a product they were going to release anyway, at a huge price cut to stay competitive, or release nothing at all (and have people spouting the end of intel).

 

I'm absolutely not defending Intel for charging such a ridiculous price in the past for their HEDT products and they should be "flogged" for it, but this is a step in the right direction, it's competition after all.....finally.

Judge the product by its own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

Don't dilute <good thing> by always trying to focus on, and drag conversation back to, <bad thing>.

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9 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

We're not impressed at something that should have happened two years ago, that's the real gist here. The 2000$ price tag never made any sense and this just proves Intel have realised how absurd it is. Like GN Said, AMD control the market and now Intel are reacting rather than acting - by releasing refreshes (copy-pasta style) of the last generation with lower prices.

Sure everyone whined the prices were too high, but two years ago Intel had the fastest chips then, so were priced accordingly, and the huge drop with cascadelake-X is just a market reaction yet everyone is still complaining about it, and I'd have to guess most complaining aren't in the market for an HEDT CPU either.

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Just now, Arika S said:

Because as everyone has already pointed out, and i do agree with, they are not ready to release anything but another refresh, they are doing the only thing they actually can. They nowhere near close to going full production on 10nm. so it was either release a rushed product (and be condemned for it) or release a product they were going to release anyway, at a huge price cut to stay competitive.

 

I'm absolutely not defending Intel for charging such a ridiculous price in the past for their HEDT products and they should be "flogged" for it, but this is a step in the right direction, it's competition after all.....finally.

Agreed - but after their repeated broken promises on 10nm, absurd marketing slides, PT shenanigans and etc, I wouldn't exactly be singing praises for a price cut. I'll just say - took ya long enough, Intel

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Just now, Blademaster91 said:

Sure everyone whined the prices were too high, but two years ago Intel had the fastest chips then, so were priced accordingly, and the huge drop with cascadelake-X is just a market reaction yet everyone is still complaining about it, and I'd have to guess most complaining aren't in the market for an HEDT CPU either.

The 9980XE wasn't really the fastest - it was the most expensive but everyone exclaimed that the 32-core 2990WX made more sense for heavy workloads and the 8700K made more sense for lighter production and gaming.

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8 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

The 9980XE wasn't really the fastest - it was the most expensive but everyone exclaimed that the 32-core 2990WX made more sense for heavy workloads and the 8700K made more sense for lighter production and gaming.

It depends on your workload but I agree with you otherwise, Threadripper is still the better value. Now the 8700k makes no sense at all unless you're only gaming.

I was just saying the pricing of these HEDT chips are out of the range of most consumers anyway, but Intel deserves criticism on their pricing for sure  and a price drop is a good thing to see. At least Intel released something instead of a rushing out an overpriced cpu.

20 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

Gordon (PCWorld) pointed out something delighting in their coverage:

 

The people who bought into Kabylake-X on X299 has a freaking drop-in upgrade* for half the price. Talk about playing the long game O_O
 

*unless it's the few boards that don't support SKLX at all. I think it's only a single MSI motherboard

This might be a selling point, especially if the rumors of TR3 needing a new board are true.

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35 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Competition is a beautiful thing.

That's a lot of profit being lifted straight out of Intel's pockets. Goes to show how crazy good the margins Intel must have had over the last decade.

In the words. How Intel slaughtered consumers.

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I seen that but there was zero consumer grade cpus in that extreme high end list...... pointless. A hail mary to keep business class ?

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5 minutes ago, TheVillageIdiot said:

I seen that but there was zero consumer grade cpus in that extreme high end list...... pointless. A hail mary to keep business class ?

The mainstream 10 core CPU will come next year.

 

On the other hand, mainstream consumers really don't need 18 cores, 72 PCIe lanes and 256GB RAM support.

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3 minutes ago, Deli said:

The mainstream 10 core CPU will come next year.

 

On the other hand, mainstream consumers really don't need 18 cores and 256GB RAM support.

The win is when they drop the consumer grade. Someone forgot to tell amd that :)~ Man all those pcie lanes... Hate to buy that much ram

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16 minutes ago, TheVillageIdiot said:

The win is when they drop the consumer grade. Someone forgot to tell amd that :)~ Man all those pcie lanes... Hate to buy that much ram

I actually think the 3950X is an odd ball. 16 cores is really into HEDT territory.

 

8 - 12 cores is sweet spot for higher end consumers. Programs which can utilise more than 12 cores, likely benefit from more than two channels of RAM.

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1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

You're still going to need at least 100USD in cooling, just to be comfortable

From what I've seen on consumer Zen 2, I think to get the best out of TR3K you'll also still need high end cooling, so cooling isn't really a major difference for either side.

 

1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Somehow, the stiffest competition in the CPU space is going to be 1k USD parts. haha

Wonder what % of people who posts on this thread have ever seriously considered 1k CPUs? I'm not short on a few $ and even I stopped around 600. If you really need it, you need it though. I did debate used HEDT in that area just to try for some benchmark records. It will be interesting to monitor the used markets after CLX and TR3K hit. Intel are also due a consumer desktop refresh around now too I think.

 

1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Unmentioned, but this pretty much renders the 9900k worthless. Get the 10c Cascade Lake-X part over it, if you're building a high-end system. Clocks will be similar, you're on a better platform and the costs will be pretty similar. 

There is the ever rumoured consumer 10 core part that would probably make more sense to consumer level tasks if it ever sees the light of day. CLX will probably have the same "problems" as Skylake-X when it came out, attributed to the mesh cache as opposed to ring cache.

 

58 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

Pretty sure Cascade Lake X is still 14nm++. Comet Lake was supposed to be the next step last I knew making it 14nm+++.

Even Intel gave up on the +'s after a while. 

 

24 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

AMD is in such a good spot they could slot a 24c TR g3 at 950 to put the knife deeper into the wound. AMD has a huge price wiggle room. 

Per-core that would scale up from consumer parts to around 1k, if AMD don't add some extra HEDT premium. Did they do this with earlier TR?

 

23 minutes ago, Arika S said:

I'm absolutely not defending Intel for charging such a ridiculous price in the past for their HEDT products and they should be "flogged" for it, but this is a step in the right direction, it's competition after all.....finally.

Assuming Intel aren't making a loss selling these, it does show how much profit they made previously.

 

20 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

The 9980XE wasn't really the fastest - it was the most expensive but everyone exclaimed that the 32-core 2990WX made more sense for heavy workloads and the 8700K made more sense for lighter production and gaming.

It still comes down to use cases. Skylake-X and TR1/TR2 were different enough from each other you had to pick for your workload, which doesn't go away even with TR3 much improved core. Still, AMD can Zerg rush Intel here.

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11 minutes ago, porina said:

Wonder what % of people who posts on this thread have ever seriously considered 1k CPUs? I'm not short on a few $ and even I stopped around 600. If you really need it, you need it though. I did debate used HEDT in that area just to try for some benchmark records. It will be interesting to monitor the used markets after CLX and TR3K hit. Intel are also due a consumer desktop refresh around now too I think.

How many people are willing to pay $1200 for a graphics card? I bet the same people will think $1K for a CPU isn't such a big deal.

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20 minutes ago, porina said:

Wonder what % of people who posts on this thread have ever seriously considered 1k CPUs?

9 minutes ago, Deli said:

How many people are willing to pay $1200 for a graphics card? I bet the same people will think $1K for a CPU isn't such a big deal.

 

I stagger CPU+motherboard and GPU purchases, so like think of CPU upgrade this time, and think of GPU upgrade after the purchase.

 

1K+ once a few years is fine, but not like 2.5K at one go, LOL

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23 minutes ago, Deli said:

likely benefit from more than two channels of RAM.

outside of specific workloads that almost only cares about Ram, we havent really seen an issue running 8 cores on a single channel of ram. 

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12 minutes ago, Deli said:

How many people are willing to pay $1200 for a graphics card? I bet the same people will think $1K for a CPU isn't such a big deal.

In recent history, GPUs have tended to cost more than a consumer CPU though, and we're not really in consumer territory any more for this thread. Very roughly, in 2015 I got a 6700k for around £300, and a 980Ti at the time was £550 from memory. That's the best single CPU/GPU mainstream consumer level part gaming build you can go for at the time. Excludes Titans and HEDT. Today a 9900k from amazon is £466, street price of 3900X is between £500-£600 if you can find one for sale, compared to 2080Ti around £1200. If gaming is the main thing, I can see 2080Tis getting paired with top end consumer CPUs as there just isn't much point to go HEDT.

 

That's not to say HEDT wont sell to some gamers too, but it isn't really its main point for existing. A $1000 CPU isn't going to give me a better gaming experience than at $500, and maybe even worse. If there are other use cases for the cores or other platform features outside gaming, go for it.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

outside of specific workloads that almost only cares about Ram, we havent really seen an issue running 8 cores on a single channel of ram. 

Zen also has amazing load balancing tech, so it doesn't have to hard lock the bandwidth assignments. 

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1 minute ago, porina said:

In recent history, GPUs have tended to cost more than a consumer CPU though, and we're not really in consumer territory any more for this thread. Very roughly, in 2015 I got a 6700k for around £300, and a 980Ti at the time was £550 from memory. That's the best single CPU/GPU mainstream consumer level part gaming build you can go for at the time. Excludes Titans and HEDT. Today a 9900k from amazon is £466, street price of 3900X is between £500-£600 if you can find one for sale, compared to 2080Ti around £1200. If gaming is the main thing, I can see 2080Tis getting paired with top end consumer CPUs as there just isn't much point to go HEDT.

 

That's not to say HEDT wont sell to some gamers too, but it isn't really its main point for existing. A $1000 CPU isn't going to give me a better gaming experience than at $500, and maybe even worse. If there are other use cases for the cores or other platform features outside gaming, go for it.

 

 

Hopefully big Navi can light I fire under Nvidias ass like Zen has done to Intel. I have my doubts though.

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Am I the only one stunned on how Intel had a 1000$ mark up on the 18c processor? We know Cascade Lake-X is just Skylake-X Re-Refresh, there's nothing new there it is the same CPU so much that Intel surprisingly kept it on X299.

 

So did they improve yields? Or were them simply taking an insane profit on these HEDT processors?

 

TR3 doesn't even have to live to the hype any more, it has already served an insane service for the market and competition.

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1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

outside of specific workloads that almost only cares about Ram, we havent really seen an issue running 8 cores on a single channel of ram. 

The old "depends on the workload" thing. For Prime95 large FFT or similar compute cases, I'd like to see at least one channel per core. But that's not the only way to solve the problem. CPU caches take a lot of the load off, and with Zen 2's L3 of 16MB/CCX we have more cache than ever. It doesn't work for all cases, it it works well in most of them. 

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