phones The Librem 5 - The fully open source Linux phone is finally shipping

[Ruckus42]

41 minutes ago, Nineshadow said:

Tbh I think this is more of a proof of concept. They showed that you can build an entirely FoSS phone, without Android or proprietary firmware, and that you can actually ship it. I was actually just thinking about this very topic a few days ago and I wasn't sure if it would be possible in any practical manner. This phone is definitely more than I would have expected. It looks somewhat decent. Yeah, it's not a modern phone, it looks more like an Android phone in its early days, not a modern phone who a normal user would want to buy now. And I don't think anyone should really buy it, except for the people who are really interested in the topic of an open source linux phone and would like to try it out themselves (and who can afford spending $700 just for this).

Agreed, this is a remarkable feat regardless. And agreed, it is not for the average consumer. This first version could be considered a dev kit. I'm tempted to buy it just to support the project. And maybe to have a little piece of history. It could end up being remembered as fondly as the shitty old G1.

[Crowbar]

4 hours ago, dizmo said:

That is....hideous. Looks like an entry level Nokia phone from 7 years ago.

I don't even know if I'd want to guess at how shit the battery life will be.

On top of that, it's a 720p screen, emmc storage, only supports wireless N WiFi...for $699 US?
 

What a joke.

- Looks are subjective. Personally glass phones look like shit in my opinion because they are covered in greasy finger prints as soon as they leave the box. Not to mention most people put them in cases which makes them larger anyway

- This is a contradiction to your next complaint as higher resolutions require more power to push

- It's a six inch screen. The resolution wars going on in phones right now are completely pointless since you literally can't tell the difference after about 720p/1080p anyways since the pixels are so tiny in that amount of surface area

[Crowbar]

22 hours ago, dizmo said:

Uh, no. Being a first gen product is no excuse for using antiquated WiFi, a low res screen, an SoC that doesn't even compare to a Qualcomm 200 series chip, and so many components that it's sure to be a huge drain on battery life. It's simply poor design.

 

There are other phones that also have privacy in mind, like the Blackphone 2...which was released almost 5 years ago...and even it came with a 1080p screen.

Kind of makes you think, no?

 

It won't become popular, and it's going to be a niche product that will surely die off. I'd be shocked if they even break even.

You are missing the point of this phone. It's for those that want complete control and privacy of the device. It has manual switches to physically disable every snooping metric, is 100% open source and does not depend on any google services. It's not designed to compete with flagships and let's be honest, 99% of those that buy high end phones don't even use half of the performance available in day to day tasks anyway.

 

You are placing judgment on this device from a perspective it was not designed for. It's like taking a smart car to a mud pit, getting it stuck and then calling it a piece of shit. If performance is of more importance to you, then buy something else. if you are sick of paying for a device to openly feed the greed machine known as google with your data only so they can turn it for a profit to anyone willing to pay or don't want to be tracked to the nearest cell tower by your phone carrier every where you go, then this is a very viable opntion.

 

I personally don't buy first gen anything out of principle because I'm not paying to be a beta tester but have been and will continue to monitor the progress of this project with intent to purchase in the future. At the end of the day it's a phone which I use for a few select tasks that don't require all the horsepower or price premium that flagships have been redundantly packing on every few months.

 

[WereCatf]

3 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Native x86-64?

No, it uses ARM.

[slippers_]

5 hours ago, dizmo said:

That is....hideous. Looks like an entry level Nokia phone from 7 years ago.

I don't even know if I'd want to guess at how shit the battery life will be.

On top of that, it's a 720p screen, emmc storage, only supports wireless N WiFi...for $699 US?
 

What a joke.

I agree, this wont change much... Maybe it'll be a cool project phone that is more "open" than Android? Maybe..? 

 

Pfft. Yawn. 

[slippers_]

4 hours ago, dizmo said:

Except they'll complain that they had 10x the number of apps on Windows Phone...

0 * 10 = 0

 

[porina]

To look at this as a mass market phone is wrong but unavoidable. If you want a portable Linux computer, maybe. If you want a phone, people will look at how do you do phone things on it. Like the recent Huawei, what do you do without a major store? At least that had some level of Android app support. You'd have to maybe focus more on mobile versions of sites than a dedicated app. Then again... I suppose Linux users are used to adapting to software choices...

[BuckGup]

10 hours ago, Ruckus42 said:

Guess what, the Ubuntu phone just got released. See above.

Ha yeah no. The ubuntu phone was supposed to have a really nice polished UI and as you can see it did really well and took over android 

[dalekphalm]

10 hours ago, Nowak said:

I'm sure that all 15 remaining Windows Phone users will eat this shit up.

Former windows phone user here - wouldn’t touch this thing with a ten foot pole. 

 

Even back in the day, windows phones had better specs than this for the most part. 

 

Most windows phone users ended up going iOS or Android in the end. 

[Commodus]

"FOSS phones hit the mainstream" is the new "this is the year of Linux on the desktop."

 

I don't think Purism is under the illusion that it'll be wildly successful, but there is a camp that is convinced this is the start of a sea change... er, no.  It'll be used by a handful of FOSS diehards and won't go much further than that.  And while the Librem 5 really needs a speed boost, I'm not convinced that'll move the needle even if there's a Snapdragon 855+ under the hood.

 

Part of this speaks to an inherent problem with FOSS advocacy (not necessarily FOSS itself): it's obsessed with theoretical freedom at the expense of actual freedom.  I still can't help but wonder if a Chinese iPhone user has more real-world freedom than a typical FOSS absolutist.

[Blademaster91]

8 hours ago, Ruckus42 said:

Agreed, this is a remarkable feat regardless. And agreed, it is not for the average consumer. This first version could be considered a dev kit. I'm tempted to buy it just to support the project. And maybe to have a little piece of history. It could end up being remembered as fondly as the shitty old G1.

Yeah while this phone is a bit lacking with specs, they have to start somewhere, it's great to see a completely open source phone.

7 hours ago, Crowbar said:

- Looks are subjective. Personally glass phones look like shit in my opinion because they are covered in greasy finger prints as soon as they leave the box. Not to mention most people put them in cases which makes them larger anyway

- This is a contradiction to your next complaint as higher resolutions require more power to push

- It's a six inch screen. The resolution wars going on in phones right now are completely pointless since you literally can't tell the difference after about 720p/1080p anyways since the pixels are so tiny in that amount of surface area

I agree, glass backs on phones is dumb, I don't care if people want to make their phone a fashion accessory, I'd rather have a more durable plastic back which would also allow easier access to the battery without worrying about shattering an expensive glass panel.

I'm fine with a 1080P display on a 6" screen, anything more is mostly marketing. However, 720P on a 6" screen isn't that great especially for the price of this phone.

[Sauron]

> $700

 

I'd rather just build my own with this os and a raspberry pi, thanks

[suicidalfranco]

i could imagine a future librem phone where they designed their own open source Risc-V chip

[Thaldor]

Seems a lot like many other "pure open-source" hardware projects which more or less have been expensive and not that impressive (other than just showing that it's possible). Don't take me wrong, it's good what they have achieved but really, $700 for that which makes Jolla phones and the whole S(/F)ailfishOS look like somehow successful (not to even mention their base, the infamous Meego). Like I get the security question in the air but for who this phone is really made? Stallman? No, not for him probably because ISP could still track him and probably calling it open source doesn't full fill his free software requirements. Consumers? Not really, the market is full phones that are cheaper and fill their needs more than better.

The thing is, the price and what you get just don't meet each other here. Just like some open source motherboard project from like 15 years ago, which first seemed like a great opportunity but then they started to ditch everything that have even a circuit that has even one component not filling their requirements of freedom and openness and they found out that they would need to, in short, reinvent the whole wheel and it would be expensive and probably lack so much performance that it just wasn't worth it.

[TheSLSAMG]

12 hours ago, Crowbar said:

It's a six inch screen. The resolution wars going on in phones right now are completely pointless since you literally can't tell the difference after about 720p/1080p anyways since the pixels are so tiny in that amount of surface area

I would defy you to pick up this (5.7 inches at 720x1440) and something like a Xiaomi Mi Mix 2S (6 inches at 1080p) and tell me that you legitimately don't see a difference in the quality of the two displays (solely resolution-wise). You would either have to have an issue with your vision (which I wouldn't judge you for) or you would have to be lying through your teeth. It's a nearly 120 DPI difference at a point where increases in DPI still yield a real improvement in visual quality.

 

From around 12-18 inches, you're absolutely going to notice a difference. Maybe not from 4-6 feet away, but no one is using their phones at that distance outside of maybe watching videos. 

[rcmaehl]

Linux phone with User upgradable parts.

I might buy one and ticker around with it just for this fact.

 

 

[Crowbar]

11 hours ago, -Kriss- said:

You have to have absolutley terrible eyesight.

What a predictable response.

 

I'm sure you're one of those guys that claims to be able to tell the difference between 200/240 FPS and can tell the difference in sound "quality" between a flac and 320 kbps MP3 as well, right?

[williamcll]

So can I plug a 970 pro SSD?

[Crowbar]

5 hours ago, TheSLSAMG said:

I would defy you to pick up this (5.7 inches at 720x1440) and something like a Xiaomi Mi Mix 2S (6 inches at 1080p) and tell me that you legitimately don't see a difference in the quality of the two displays (solely resolution-wise). You would either have to have an issue with your vision (which I wouldn't judge you for) or you would have to be lying through your teeth. It's a nearly 120 DPI difference at a point where increases in DPI still yield a real improvement in visual quality.

 

From around 12-18 inches, you're absolutely going to notice a difference. Maybe not from 4-6 feet away, but no one is using their phones at that distance outside of maybe watching videos. 

I'd never buy an xiaomi phone so that's not likely to happen.

 

Either way, it's not enough of a pixel density difference within the tiny surface area of a 6 inch screen to be complaining about. Very similar to 1440p vs 4K on a 27' monitor. It's splitting hairs for bragging rights when real world applications don't have a discernable difference for most people.

[Crowbar]

11 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yeah while this phone is a bit lacking with specs, they have to start somewhere, it's great to see a completely open source phone.

I agree, glass backs on phones is dumb, I don't care if people want to make their phone a fashion accessory, I'd rather have a more durable plastic back which would also allow easier access to the battery without worrying about shattering an expensive glass panel.

I'm fine with a 1080P display on a 6" screen, anything more is mostly marketing. However, 720P on a 6" screen isn't that great especially for the price of this phone.

It's not technically 720p. It's one of these new dumb 18:9 aspect ratios which is wider horizontally at 1440. 1080p would have probably made more sense for the majority of video content but I believe the issue as has been already mentioned is that even the hardware had to be open source which includes the microcode. Perhaps there isn't such an option currently available or due to the run size of this first generation it was cost prohibitive.

[Thaldor]

11 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

Linux phone with User upgradable parts.

I might buy one and ticker around with it just for this fact.

I would pass on that. Even now the SoC seems to be the greatest achilles heel, compared to the price that is just... well not a good piece of c**p. And apparently only WiFi and LTE cards are on M.2, SoC is soldered, storage is soldered, memory is soldered, basicly everything else than battery, WiFi and LTE cannot be upgraded. You could probably change the LTE or WiFi cards to something else since m.2 connection but what there is to put in it is a whole new question (AFAIK there's only WiFi and LTE cards and storage options).

 

E: Just adding to this post.

 

Whoa! Just whoa. Anyone else seen this and this?

Like hell yeah, you can get Librem 5 -phone and 24" or 30" monitor and BlueTooth keyboard and mouse for... for... for... Those better be some really good accessories. $700 for 24" monitor+KB+mouse and $1000 for the 30" monitor+KB+mouse, like that is some Apple pricing right there.

[Commodus]

On 9/28/2019 at 4:38 AM, Thaldor said:

Whoa! Just whoa. Anyone else seen this and this?

Like hell yeah, you can get Librem 5 -phone and 24" or 30" monitor and BlueTooth keyboard and mouse for... for... for... Those better be some really good accessories. $700 for 24" monitor+KB+mouse and $1000 for the 30" monitor+KB+mouse, like that is some Apple pricing right there.

At least with Apple you could see where the money was going.

 

To be fair, this is probably due in part to economies of scale (Purism isn't exactly shipping millions of devices).  The pricing is just a reminder that running on Linux doesn't mean you're running a charity.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

And now I am bored...

 

What the fuck is going on with these pipe-dream FOSS projects popping up left right and center? There is a reason that Apple remains the undisputed king of the tablet space, and one of the leaders of smartphones; simplicity wins over "flexibility" every single day of the week when it comes to a phone, because guess what, IT IS A PHONE, NOT A GOD DAMNED PORTABLE SCIENCE FAIR PROJECT!!

 

And these FOSS-obsessed cultists wonder why programs like GIMP never gained anywhere near mainstream popularity, despite the obvious problems that subscription-based Adobe business model brings.

[Crowbar]

On 9/28/2019 at 2:52 AM, -Kriss- said:

Because its the only plausible explanation for that argument.

I get it. You believe you are a super human. keep watching that anime...

 

I believe you are confusing resolution with the quality of the display in general since you don't understand the concept of pixel density.

[Crowbar]

8 hours ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

And now I am bored...

 

What the fuck is going on with these pipe-dream FOSS projects popping up left right and center? There is a reason that Apple remains the undisputed king of the tablet space, and one of the leaders of smartphones; simplicity wins over "flexibility" every single day of the week when it comes to a phone, because guess what, IT IS A PHONE, NOT A GOD DAMNED PORTABLE SCIENCE FAIR PROJECT!!

 

And these FOSS-obsessed cultists wonder why programs like GIMP never gained anywhere near mainstream popularity, despite the obvious problems that subscription-based Adobe business model brings.

What are you ranting about and how do tablets have anything even remotely in common with this device? No one ever stated or inferred that this phone was for mainstream use. If that’s your focus then by all means continue to bask in your walled ecosystem of ignorance. Not everyone is an apple tool that wants to do things the way apple forces you to and for good reason but I guess expecting you to comprehend that is asking too much. There’s a reason the Linux community often refers someone to read the documentation. It prevents statements like yours that clearly show a lack of understanding leading to hyperbole. Wanting privacy and full control over your possessions doesn’t make you a “FOSS-obsessed cultists” and it’s a sad state of affairs that corporations like your precious apple have motivated a team to step up and provide this themselves.

 

One thing you are correct about however is that it’s “only a phone”. It’s not a tracking beacon or spy tool to harvest data from under the guise of whatever excuse the company’s marketing team can come up with that month.

 

Does this device have issues? Certainly. But, it’s a first gen product not being financially backed by shareholders. I’m not sure what your expectations were but obviously very skewed if you think a device that hasn’t even released yet and has a completely different use case is going to be comparable to an 11^th gen iphone for selfie takers.