Who thinks Linux is better??

[PureArtistry]

On 9/26/2019 at 11:08 PM, [REDACTED] said:

• Low resource usage
  • I can take pleasure knowing that onedrive which isn't logged in doesn't spike to 100% CPU usage and slow down the desktop on a 6 core system, even on fresh installs from various versions...

I know I'm quoting something from the start of the thread (sorry), but thanks for that bit of info, I think that's the answer to a problem I was having.

[vanished]

11 minutes ago, R3P1N5 said:

Not all costs come from your wallet directly. Privacy, time and security, just to name a few additional costs.

Sure, but vs previous versions of Windows I'm not sure that's changed as much as people think.  Not that what they think of the new one is wrong, but that the old ones are maybe not what they thought they were, at least anymore.

[Sam Smith]

On 9/26/2019 at 11:22 PM, James said:

Hey guys! We're doing another "10 Reasons _____ is just Better" video - this time with Linux. Now's your chance to tell us what you love about Linux and/or why Linux is better than MacOS/ Windows.

 

Note: we're not interested in hearing from non-Linux users here
 

 

Also my linux experience has been a bit rough because of my rx 5700 xt. But even though I dont have to faf about with drivers on windows IT STILL GIVES ME BSOD's from nowhere. I mean fedoras unstable rawhide is waymore stable than win10.

[DemonicTaco]

Customization:

 

You can customize almost everything, main distro to exemplify this would be KDENeon, one of the best distros out there.

 

Ease of use:

 

Most of the popular distros include a software library of some sort, which is sort of like an app store. Some distros stores are heavily curated with software that for sure works and is up to a certain standard. Elementary OS stands out in this regard. This makes using the OS very easy, as you can easily download whatever it is you need without having to browse to it. Whatever you need to perform 99% of common tasks will be in there: opening PDF's, word processing, graphic (GIMP), video playback, web browsers, etc.

[Mnky313]

As someone who doesn't use it that much, the terminal commands and ability to install software from the terminal is awesome. especially grep... one of the first things I install on windows in GnuWin32 to get grep for the windows terminal.

hah lol, I didn't read the bolded text

[Sam Sarette]

1. Easy to download (bleeding edge or LTS)

2. Bash scripts

3. KDE's Plasma Desktop

4. Less annoying updates

5. Lot's of neat OSS tools

6. Gamedev is just as good (love Unity and Godot)

7. Better VR than Mac

8. Ethical & Privacy respecting

9. Secure

10. WOBBLY WINDOWS

(Kubuntu) Linux is great.

[Hawke42]

First and foremost, I love the freedom of linux, and the relatively ease of install for most distros. I love tinkering around with computers and quite often, more often than I'd like to admit, in fact, I break something. With linux, it's so easy to just wipe the slate and start again, and I'm not even limited to restarting with the same distro. Don't like how something is implemented in a particular one? Give another option a try. 

 

I also love being able to squeeze more life out of older hardware. I usually keep a windows machine around somewhere, but when it starts to slog along, I always start it's resuscitation with a fresh install of linux. 

 

Related to this, I can afford to have more than one machine, as I don't need to pay for each OS license, nor do I have to use the same exact spin. My desktop runs Xubuntu, which I find works well with multiple monitor setups, while my laptop runs on Mint with the cinnamon desktop, for a more straightforward feel that I want on the go.

 

Lastly, I love the community support offered, especially for Debian and/or Ubuntu-based Distros. Most issues I've had have also been had by someone else, and a short google usually gives me the solution. 

[dvtate]

Me:
- windows: since 2002
- linux: since 2014

- macos: since 2019

1. Developer Friendly

    - Because almost all servers run linux it's easier to test things before deployment
    - because OS doesn't try to hide internals it's easier to debug programs (ie - gdb doesn't work out of the box on macOS or windows)

    - generally newer versions of a lot of developer software (ie - gcc) (varies by distro, btw I use arch)

    - true POSIX environment (unlike windows)

    - many dev tools come preinstalled and are easy to install
    - xcode on macos is buggy and painful for anything other than swift/obj-c

    - FOSS means almost entire OS is well documented

 

2. Free as in Freedom

    - You decide when to download/install updates and if you want to reboot after

    - No ads in your start menu

    - can customize literally anything in OS (not locked into Apple/MS style/UI guidelines)

    - If the os says you can't do something it's almost always for a good reason

    - With a few changes to settings you can boot & run linux on pretty much any computer via external hdd (useful for students)

 

3. Security & Privacy

     - Because almost all servers run linux security vulnerabilities are quickly fixed and distributed
     - Because the consumer market share is lower, linux is rarely the target for malware
     - being able to review source code shows us that there isn't spyware integrated into the os

          - Apple sends your browsing history to Google and Tencent 

          - Do I even have to give examples for windows?

     - Pentesters use Kali Linux and they don't want to get hacked

 

4. Hardware Support

    - Windows minimum specs are pretty high and usable specs are even higher

    - I'm currently running 5 chat bots, 2 websites, 2 databases, shadowsocks server, and a VPN server  (total: 100k users) off a netbook I bought in 2012 with <1gb RAM
    - Much lower hdd usage than Windows/MacOS

    - faster network stack than windows (-1 to -3ms ping in some games)

    - Graphics driver support isn't a problem now that amd and nvidia both release linux graphics drivers

    - Because OS is lightweight u have more resources to devote to whatever you're working on (ie - don't have to run GUI)

[aldelaro5]

I have a pretty long story of how I cam to be fine with Windows....then start to consider Linux, followed by starting to not like Windows in favor of Linux....and then I deleted Windows entirely because I started to REALLY not like Windows and use linux full time. FYI, I used linux mint for 2 years before switching to Arch linux which perfectly suits my needs.

 

There's MANY reasons why I think Linux is better, but the main one is really the fact you can see EVERYTHING that is happening which isn't exactly the case with windows which tends to end up being like "trusting the wizard" where it hides and obfuscate a lot of stuff that I would like to know, even for basic troubleshooting. Even for stuff like Windows update which historically broke many times for me and I couldn't get why. I still use windows 10 in a vm only sometime and I STILL get this feeling (also, imo, windows 10 has actually gotten less stable than previous releases).

 

Another HUGE one is package management: almost any distro (even arch linux which is SUPER barebone) has repositories of packages that includes pretty much everything from the sound mixer (pulseaudio) to bluetooth (bluez) and of course, programs like your steam firefox and everything. This has many advantages over the "hunt for the installer" way on Windows which are:

 

1. Increased security as the OS's teams are overseeing the packages

2. Better dependency installation and auto removing those who are no longer necessary

3. Ease of updates because unlike Windows update, it updates EVERYTHING, like seriously, it's impressive that I can update my entire system and program with a single command

4. Say you want to reinstall, either for upgrade or your hdd busted....whatever reasons, you will spend A LOT less time restoring your backup because you could just backup the list of packages you had and just put them back in.

 

Another one I will mention is drivers because the Linux kernel is monolithic meaning it wants to include everything you would need which includes drivers. This means that you do not need to hunt for drivers unlike windows EXCEPT for proprietary graphics drivers (but even then, it got much better over the years....pls intel release your gpu already).

 

Lastly and I think it's a strong point for a lot of people: the liberty of choice. Not just the fact you can use from a variety of distros, but even the desktop environment, you are not confined to a single shell. I can EVEN do crazy stuff like change my SYSTEM font in a few clicks! Btw, that last one actually is a godsend for me because I get to increase the font size system wide which makes me use the magnifier A LOT less as I am suffering from a severe myopia. Same for using a UI wide dark theme for my light sensitivity which unfortunately, windows only supports partially.

 

I have been happy with linux since almost 4 years now and I am never going back, it's amazing.

[aaronfranke]

My comment here is mostly about the technical reasons that make Linux better.

 

In no particular order:

• Package managers are awesome.
  • All your software can be updated from one place, except for Steam games and a few other exceptions.
  • Libraries/dependencies are shared between programs, resulting in less bloat and less disk space used up compared to Windows.
  • Many programs and libraries can be installed simply by copy-pasting "sudo apt install" commands.
  • If you like the way you have your system set up, you can write a script to install everything.
• The majority of drivers come built into the kernel, no separate installation is needed, not even automatic installation. The exception here is Nvidia drivers.
• Superior file systems such as EXT4, ZFS, BTRFS.
  • They are significantly faster for many types of file operations.
  • They don't fragment nearly as easily as NTFS or FAT32.
  • File paths are actually just references, which allows replacement or even deletion of open files and programs.
  • Because of this, updates can be done while the system is running.
• Simpler security model vs Windows, making it easier to secure a system.
  • The system designed from the ground up to be multi-user, unlike Windows which didn't have that in DOS so they had to add it on later.
  • Anti-virus is not necessary.
    • Even if Linux and Windows marketshare were swapped, Linux is still designed to be more secure and would not have significant malware problems.
    • In fact, it might even have less malware, because more popularity loosely correlates to more eyes on the code, which means less bugs.
  • Linux has some security features that Windows simply doesn't have even today, like the executable bit.
• Universal system-wide theming: GTK and Qt themes can together change the look of pretty much every program.
  • You can have separate themes for the color scheme, icon set, window borders, and cursor.
  • Windows and Mac now have dark themes, but you're still limited to just light and dark, and most programs don't obey these themes.
• Power user tools are built-in to common included utilities.
  • Ex: Most Linux file managers can connect to SFTP servers, on Windows and Mac you need 3rd party clients.
  • Bash is downright luxurious compared to Windows CMD and PowerShell, and that's only the tip of the iceberg - if you want, there's also fish and zsh among others.
• Most programs are 64-bit, and you often don't need 32-bit versions of libraries installed, saving disk space. However, Mac has Linux beat here.
• For a variety reasons, too many to list, but some are listed above, Linux is faster than other operating systems.

That should be plenty of technical content for one video, assuming you want to get a little technical.

 

 

[Source Slayer]

• Less bloat
• more customizable
• there's a Linux-based OS for just about anything
• if you want to do any sort of crazy project with light hardware (e.g. Pi or beagle) you're probably gonna use it 
• Having a package manager is a huge convenience

[Provsalt]

1 customisation

2. Work on old hardware!

i can use linux and run lubuntu on my phone via termux 

3 it lightning fast

 

[thesola10]

I think the single best thing about Linux that no other mainstream OS has (proper) is the package manager.

 

Imagine not having to trust a full-privilege installer you got from a random website. Imagine not having to scour the hard drive to find that pesky .app which isn't in the Applications folder. Imagine all the software you could ever want, neatly in one place.

 

And now, push that concept even further. Imagine leveraging the sheer power of a package manager to create reproducible environments. Deploy them automatically across a cluster in a click. Virtually unbreakable updates. Cryptographic signatures on curated repositories, which eliminate the chance of malicious software.

 

Managing a single machine becomes pure bliss,  and working on several at once is so satisfying.

 

You could never do that on any other OS.

 

 

Also it's incredibly resilient on low-performance environments. I can run full-blown Firefox on 1GB RAM without slowdowns.

[kilbox1a]

Full time Linux user here. Arco Linux herbsluftwm

 

My number reason Linux is better is because there is a distro that fits almost every need. Does your Gran need a system that isn't nearly as targeted to get on facebook and see your family updates? Or do you need a gaming distro? Theres a fit for each. Unlike Windows or MacOS where you get one choice and one choice only.

 

It can be audited by anyone with the development prowess. So there's no garbage code that shouldn't be in there in the first place, and if it is, you have the ability to strip it out... Windows Telemetry comes to mind of things I'd like to strip out at the source code level. 

 

I have the ability to choose the best  base application stack to suit my needs. Meaning I can use a totally different file manager, window manager, compositor, etc which for most of these categories there is a massive amount of options. Again, unlike Windows where the choices are VERY limited if any.

 

99% of the time no telemetry built in.

 

for tinkerers it's an easier learning environment due to all of the documentation installed ON THE MACHINE (man pages). 

 

Bash is better than windows in any and every way (subjective maybe? Windows allows you to use it now)

 

I can decide if I want to update.

 

There is no cost of ownership aside from a learning curve if you want to get in depth with it.

 

It almost always respects users privacy.

 

It allows you to run questionable windows binaries without actual chance of infection of your machine.

[julkip]

1. It does what I want
2. It does not do what I don't want it to
3. Open Source
4. Huge community of invested people
5. I have absolute control over everything
6. Package managers are just a joy to install software with
7. Much more secure than Windows
8. Programming on Linux is just so much better than on Windows
9. I can be a snob about it
10. I use Arch!

[HikariKnight]

Dont like how something works?
you can change it! (either with configurations or if you have at least some minor knowledge of scripting)

 

I personally use linux as i have more control over my system, i also am able to utilize every bit of performance out of the machine and use it the way i want.

I currently have a threadripper 1920x which i use to run a hybrid system with Linux as the host and windows as the guest with near seamless integration between the two (sadly no "seamless" mode for applications) and i have plans to make some kind of daemon to launch programs and games on the windows virtual machine from within linux to make stuff more seamless for the 500+ GPU Passthrough users out there ;D

 

when i do not need my hybrid system i do use my machine to do lots of testing across multiple platforms using virtualziation.
 

My workflow relies on workspaces (virtual desktops in windows, which is a feature they "borrowed" from linux and mac) and it makes multitasking a dream when used with a tiling window manager.

 

With Linux you can also get way deeper insight to hardware and how it works

[MasterGeekMX]

Insert meme of the cat being summoned

In no particular order:

Personalization and customization: No offense guys, but in your "10 ways Windows is just BETTER" video, the statement about windows being customizable felt like that The Verge PC build video. In Linux you can choose anything and everything in almost every level. From the icon theme to even the system's random number generator, or even switch up the kernel for a custom one or even ditch out Linux in favor of some compatible ones like BSD or GNU Hurd. Yes, it can get technical the deeper you go, but back again at the aforementioned video, changing window's icon theme is as complex.

Freedom and control: It is not only open source, is free software (but Free as in Freedom, not as free beer). Free software grants you 4 freedoms as an end user (to prevent some injustices):

• 0: The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose
  • (Want to make that sweet Mario Party gameplay with some buddys a youtube hit? Nintendo says no)
• 1: The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish
  • (oops! your program had a backdoor that phoned back to the NSA and China's government. Sorry, we "maybe" will remove that.)
• 2: The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others
  • (U Got used for sharing that copy of the software that we do not longer sell or distribute. Pay the fine or bars!)
• 3: The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others
  • (We modified NVidia's drivers so we can save from waste this mining cards, but we are not allowed to give it to you guys)

According to the Free Software Foundation, Any program that does not follow these guidelines makes an injustice to the users, because they do not own the thing that they paid for, and the programmers (or the companies commanding the programmers) are the ones in power. When we use Linux, we are the full masters of the system. We OWN the software, and no backdoor or manipulation is happening on the background. User friendliness means making things simpler and easier, so anyone can use a computer, not treating users like toddlers that can't make a thing by their own so daddy company has to make everything for them even if they don't want.

Privacy: We Linux users are pretty sure that our OS does not collect our data to sell it to other parties. We are sure that our mics aren't being activated remotely for """speech recognition improvement""" (and even then, there are option to tell upfront that something is trying to use the mic). We are sure that our OS does not have backdoors to our info so intelligence agencies can track us. The only information that we leak is via the web services that we chose to use (and even then, we tend to choose the ones that respect our privacy: DuckDuckGo, NextCloud, Mastodon, LBRY, etc).

Compatibility: Long gone are the days of a certain hardware not working on Linux. In my own experience, I haven't needed to install ANY driver whatsoever. Except for very few things (like nvidia GPUs), the system recognizes it and makes it work. Also, due it's open nature, folks have modified Linux so it can work with low resources, so you can grab the worst ever PC from Free Geek and use it as a barebones system for maybe your grannies, or leave as much juice as possible from ain insane build. Think why Linux is king on supercomputers, servers, embedded devices, IoT and anything under the sun.

Choice: Linux is just an engine. But you can't drive home with just an engine. You need a chassis, wheels, transmission, steering wheel, and a stereo. There is an endless variety of parts to choose so you can make a full system, and people have made some preconfigured and ready to install compilations of it: the Distributions (distros for the boyz). From what desktop environment to use (or lack of it) to even what use case. Wanna get an easy to use system out of the box? Ubuntu. Want to get an ikea-like DIY bleeding-edge system? Arch. Want to make professional-grade network security auditing and penetration testings? Kali. Want to have a polished and refined experience like the one offered by OSX? ElementaryOS. Want to go  the "gimme a sawtooth and a log and I'll make my own table!" route? LinuxFromScratch. Wanna mount a home server with a rock-solid system that was fully tested? Debian. Wanna use a flexible and versatile system close to the ones used in enterprise environments? Fedora.

Interface: Windows has the taskbar, with a start on the left and a clock on the right. Mac has the top global menu and the dock on the bottom. Linux has all of it, none, or even other things. As I mentioned, there is plenty of choice on the components, and the Desktop Environment is no exception. Some are simpler and lighter, perfect for computers on low resources. Others are flashier and full of effects, transitions and wobbly windows. Some are barebones, while others are full of nifty tricks. Some are straightforward while others may have an airplane cockpit's worth of options. Some imitate windows or mac to prevent alienation to newcomers, while others go full unorthodox, experimenting with fringe workflows. Or you can even throw all of that to the garbage and use the system entirely on a terminal like in the good ol' days (but don't you think that you are going to private yourself from some things by doing that)

Costless versatility: Except for a very very specific piece of software made custom for a specific thing, I am able to do anything that a Windows or mac can do on my desktop and laptop. You guys often laugh that we don't have a creative software suite. Have you ever heard of GIMP, KDEnlive, Krita, Blender, Scribus, Inkscape, OpenShot, Audacity, LMMS, LibreOffice, OpenToonz and a long et cetera? (including BlackMagic's DaVinci resolve, but that is not open source so it does not fully count). Steam has made heaps in Linux gaming, and even then there are tons of native games and emulators up there. And don't get me up to coding: no need to install anything to start making some things. To start, almost all text editors come with advanced features like syntax highlighting, and some run directly on the terminal, so you don't need to switch programs. To compile and run, just two commands are needed. All of this, for nearly zero monetary units. No license key, no cloud account, no subscription fee. Install and use, FFS!

Software and updates: No need to hunt all over the web for that pesky "download" button, just to face a "wizard" that ask you if you want McAfee antivirus and Yahoo search bar. 80-90% of your software will be in an online server preconfigured on your system, downloadable and installable by just some clicks away in an app-store like program (or if you like some verbose, with some terminal commands). Any updates to your software will be delivered with the system updates, so no more opening a program to face "An update is available". Talkin' 'bout updatez, say goodbye to forced updates and compulsory reboots. The system will update and ONLY update on your command, with just a simple notification when the updates are available that knows that no means no. Even then, you can choose a distro that delivers updates slowly and only when fully tested, so you will see a notification of a new version twice a year.

Usability: If you still think that Linux is hard to use and it's all commands and coding, let me tell you two things: ATi has been bought by AMD, and BlockBuster is in bankruptcy. Yes, the terminal has a quite a presence on Linux, but asking not to use it is like asking a Windows power user to not use the Registry Editor. People tend to confuse not being used to something with that something being hard to use. The desktop side has evolved a lot and it still keeps improving day by day, with some systems being nearly grandpa-proof. As I said earlier, some desktop environments try to imitate how windows or mac behave, so you can be in a similar workflow. And some distros go beyond and develop tools so thing that were solely command-line driven now can be made through a nice GUI.

Security: Linux is used on very important and sensitive places, so lots of people put an effort on improving the security of it. First and foremost, Linux can't catch Windows viruses. Like Mac, we come from another bloodline of OS, and windows viruses take advantage of vulnerabilities that only windows and it's architecture have. Also, unless you specify it, a program usually don't run, and if it does, it is quite isolated from the system (and with some technologies like Flatpak, Snap, Kubernetes and Docker, it is even more isolated). And at last; when something needs admin privileges, windows says "cancel or continue?". Linux directly asks for the password of an admin account, even if you are logged in as one.

NOTES AFTER REWATCHING THE OTHER VIDEOS:

MAC:

• We may not have (yet) an ecosystem, but we have some QoL things. GNOME Desktop can sync up with a variety of online accounts, sharing contacts, calendar events, mail, an even mounting Google Drive as a network drive, or KDE having KDEConnect, linking up an android phone with a Desktop/Laptop, allowing for shared clipboard, file sharing, notification sync, multimedia control, presentation control, and even using the phone as a touchpad and execution of preconfigured commands with just a tap.
• We have "mission control" like modes. We invented the virtual desktop. We have search engines as powerful as spotlight. We have distros that are so "ready 2 go" that some purists complain about them being bloated.
• Bootcamp? Parallels? Dude, we master virtual machines using software that organizations and companies use to deploy their clouds. Also, out Install does not get jealous if it is installed alongside another OS.
• When talking about mac development, you guys mention that the Unix ancestry is a good point. Guess who is also a grandkid of Unix? And if UNIX makes the system so open, now imagine that the blueprints of every single component of the system are also at reach. We also have the manpages, manuals for almost every single command, program and even libraries on the system. And some of out text editors can compare to xcode.
• We also don't have ads and data collection (and we are sure about that), but we don't need to pay a couple of grands for that. And we don't force you to use an specific tool. The preloaded are the ones the distro developer liked, but nothing stops you from obliterating it and replacing it (looking at ya critical system component chess)

WINDOWS:

• Thanks to tools like Wine and Lutris, games and even some apps run flawlessly on Linux, and even sometimes better. Linux using Wine and Windows using "compatibility mode" don't have too many differences on the guts.
• Windows registry editor is, believe it or not, harder to use compared to Linux. Most config is stored in plain text files with quite some human readable formatting, and any text editor can do the work of configuring the system. And most of the time a simple command does the trick.
• PowerToys? We use real tools that professionals on IT use, not toys. Task scheduler is just windows version of cron.
• Support base I will say we are on par, with the bonus that reaching the people behind the making of the stuff is easier, and not only they are open to hear direct requests and issues, they are open to welcome to you to become a part of the development, even if you don't know to code. We blur the line between user and developer.
• Scientists and investigators? Really? Even in the making of the movie Interstellar Linux was present, and more and more research facilities use Linux and open source software.
• Try KDE Plasma and then talk to me about shortcut keys. Even the "standard" shortcuts like copy and paste can be remapped. What about easing the life of mom by making Ctrl-C for Copying, Ctrl+Alt+C for Cutting and Ctrl+P for Pasting?
• The updates do not require a slow restart. Just close and reopen the updated apps to see the new stuff, only requiring reboots for key components like the kernel (and even that is probable to change in the future)

 

Here is a screenshot of my setups (My laptop and my desktop with dual scren)

[MadmanRB]

Linux for me is a gift more precious then gold, I have been a linux user for more then a decade now and while its never been perfect its made loads of progress over the time I have used it.

I have seen linux make more progress in 1 year that Microsoft has done in 5.

Linux these days is super easy to learn, use and maintain and i argue its easier to learn than windows especially if you run something like linux mint.

Almost everything is plug and play as it is in windows and linux has more hardware compatibility then a mac.

Windows may still be the best OS for gamers but I know of one or two linux distros that would wipe the floor with windows 10 in terms of usability and ease of use.

One being the aforementioned Linux mint which a 5 year old can use

The other is Zorin OS

 

There are others like Manjaro which do have learning curves but its not that terrible.

[MasterGeekMX]

On 9/28/2019 at 6:04 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

• Saveable.  If something goes wrong I can kill the graphical environment with control + alt + backspace, or just switch to a command line environment with control alt F1 and kill the program, or run anything else I need to.  On Windows if there's an issue that takes down the interface, you're kinda SOL

THIS! Being able to always have a terminal to do things is the best. It's like some years ago when touch phones became the norm that my dad said "what if you get yourself in an accident and your phone screen breaks. How yould you call 911?"

 

Also I like to have a TTY alywas on with something visually stunning for the uninitiated like htop, so when someone walks over I do a quick Ctrl+Alt+F1 to pretend that I'm a leet haxorz... by watching my process.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, MasterGeekMX said:

[...] "what if you get yourself in an accident and your phone screen breaks. How yould you call 911?" [...]

off topic I guess but wow, actually I'm a bit embarrassed to admit I've never thought about this but you're right, that would very likely be an issue in that situation.

[MasterGeekMX]

3 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

off topic I guess but wow, actually I'm a bit embarrassed to admit I've never thought about this but you're right, that would very likely be an issue in that situation.

Forgive me, but I don't see the offtopicalneess. Touch phones are Like GUI-Only systems, while old key phones are the TTY. If both get the screen broken, one of them has more chances of being still functional.

[vanished]

24 minutes ago, MasterGeekMX said:

Forgive me, but I don't see the offtopicalneess. Touch phones are Like GUI-Only systems, while old key phones are the TTY. If both get the screen broken, one of them has more chances of being still functional.

Oh sorry I just meant I was sort of going off on a tangent about that part of your post But true I guess, that comparison also stands up

[MasterGeekMX]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Oh sorry I just meant I was sort of going off on a tangent about that part of your post But true I guess, that comparison also stands up

It's okay m8. I came to cast my voice on the next video, and to see the voice of others. I think I'm on the top 3 of longest replies.

 

Hailings from Le Mexique to a fellow penguiner.

[MasterGeekMX]

On 10/15/2019 at 4:34 PM, evo_zorro said:

My time to shine. Keep in mind, I'm a long time (over 15 years) linux user, I code for a living, and I've not used windows on any of my machines since windows 7. I've had to use OSX for work for a few months, and quit because of it. That's to say: I may have a slight bias here. Here's some reasons why I think that bias is justified, however:

 

1. It's literally THE MOST IMPORTANT SYSTEM OUT THERE

 

Let's get this out of the way first. Linux is the most important piece of software in the world. End of. Why? Can you say, wihtout any shadow of doubt that there isn't a family on the planet that doesn't own at least 1 device that runs OSX? No you can't. Nor can you make a similar claim about Windows. My house has neither an OSX nor Windows device in it.

Are you an avid windows user? OK, have you got a smart device (whether it be a smart kettle, thermostat, phone), do you have a router? Do you drive a Tesla? Congrats, you probably have a linux device in the mix.

Are you an astronaut on board the ISS? Congrats, the ISS runs linux.

Does your job involve you working with any of the 500 most powerful computers on the planet? I guess your job involves using Linux.

You're online watching youtube video's or reading web pages every so often (or very often)? Congrats. The internet runs on Linux.

A bit more outlandish: Medical imaging software (MRI's, CAT scans, etc...): a lot of the solutions here run linux. Do you drink milk? automated cow milking machines run Linux. 

 

Whatever you can think of, whatever requires a micro-processor and some logic to run on a machine, odds are the system that manufacturers will choose will be the free (both as in beer and as in freedom) kernel that is linux. It's more versatile than Windows or MacOS, it's free, it's tried and tested in every environment (terrestrial and in space),... it's everywhere. Imagining a world without linux implies imaging a world without: 

 

* the internet

* the iss

* home automation

* android (most smartphones, by far)

* routers

* anything bar your Windows PC or mac, basically

 

2. To each their own, to each their distro. 

 

You are a PC user who wants to code? Fine, there's plenty of distro's with bleeding-edge packages just for you. If the mere thought of compiling code makes you recoil in horror, there's just as many (if not more) other distro's out there. 

Do you like arcade games and console emulation? There's a distro just for that.

Do you have a weird obsession with Hanna Montana? Try Hanna Montana Linux. 

Whatever you want, there's probably a distro out there with your name on it.

 

3. It's a Kernel, you decide what it is on top of that

 

If you've been around the linux sphere for longer than a day, you've seen this one before: call it GNU/Linux. Linux is just the Kernel. Windows and OSX users can argue back and forth about which system offers better customisation, the simple fact is: Linux rules supreme here. You don't like Gnome? Try KDE. Don't like that one either? Try XFCE, LXDE, Ratpoison, i3 or SwayWM, Cinnamon, or whatever other graphical environment you find.

The same thing when it comes to something like the command line: you don't like bash scripting? Try csh, or fish, or zsh, or sh, or korn, or...

 

If it's something other than the kernel, you can replace it with something else, and still refer to the end product as "a flavour of linux".

 

4. Bug fixing

 

Remember spectre and meltdown? The system that was first to release a fix for these VERY SERIOUS vulnerabilities was.... Linux, of course. Compare that to Apple's famous `goto fail;` bug, which was reported first back in 2012 (if memory serves me well), and took over 3 years to fix... 

If you're sceptical of this claim, let's be pragmatic about it:

 

AS mentioned before: the internet runs on Linux. Big companies (and that includes microsoft) use Linux (Microsoft is a platinum partner, and contributes to the Linux kernel!). IBM bought Red Hat. They all need Linux to be reliable, safe, and fit their needs. If a massive security vulnerability emerges, you can bet your bottom dollar these companies will fix it. Not in the least because they have to. Because Linux is GPLv2 licensed, this fix is free and open source software in its own right, and we (linux users) all benefit.

 

5. Free software

 

Linux is free. It doesn't cost you anything (although some distro's do), but more importantly: you are free to download, look at, and alter/improve the code. That's how software should work. Imagine you run a company. Software engineers aren't cheap. You pay 10 people to develop some software for you, and a client doesn't like something, or wants a new feature. You have to hire someone to handle customer relations, a project manager to plan any work that comes from customer requests, and pay engineers to maintain, and further develop a piece of code. If you ever reach the point where you have 100 engineers working on a single project, that project has to be making you millions for your company to stay afloat.

Linux has an army of over 15,000 developers contributing to the kernel. No company, even a trillion dollar one like Apple has the resources the Linux community has.

 

6. Hardware suppport

 

It's an old joke, much like the "yes, but can it run Crysis" meme, it's often said that linux has crappy hardware support; it did. Over a decade ago, I remember spending hours and hours trying to get audio or wifi to work. The simple fact of the matter is, however, that in the last 5 years, I've had not a single issue WRT hardware support. I rocked up at an office, I saw the network printer, and printed my documents. Meanwhile, a colleague of mine was trying to get the same printer to work on is OSX machine, to no avail, so I printed his documents, too.

Is Nvidia support bad? Well, their drivers support is probably among the worst for Linux. I am currently running an RTX on my main desktop, running linux though. No problems at all there.

 

On hardware support, there are examples of Linux outperforming Windows. My desktop rig is a Threadripper 2990wx. The Windows scheduler coulnd't handle that many threads, which resulted in lower performance figures. A simple example would be blender (also free and open source). I found this review: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3296378/2nd-gen-threadripper-review-amds-32-core-cpu-is-insanely-fast.html?page=2 showing a BMW render time of 95 seconds (1m35). When I installed Fedora, without tweaking any bios settings, no overclocking, just a clean install of my system, I did the same thing on Linux, to get a render time of 77 seconds (1m17). A whopping 18 seconds (about 20%) faster. Seeing as AMD is pushing towards more cores/threads, and Linux having a lot more experience dealing with more threads (because linux runs most super-computers and servers), it's a more mature kernel. Linux is better suited to handle complex hardware.

 

7. Filesystem support

 

Do you want to copy files over from an NTFS drive? sure, go right ahead. How about mounting a zfs partition? Why not. ext{2,3,4}? Easy.... whatever list of filesystems you can think of, Linux will be able to handle more than Windows and OSX, guaranteed. Same goes for networking. Which system is more frequently used for servers? As mentioned earlier: that'd be Linux. Which system is more suitable for networking? Linux, of course.

 

Now I have to come clean here. FreeBSD (in fact the entire BSD family) are probably just as good, if not better at this than Linux is, and MacOS is based on the BSD kernel. Though I can't point to anything major in particular, I've worked with people who know their stuff better than most anyone I know, and they've described MacOS as a "neutered form of BSD". If someone who knows the TCP/IP stacks of all systems discussed can elaborate on this, I'm more than happy to read through pages of nerdilicious details.

 

8. Update freedom

 

You update the packages you want, when you want to, and you restart when you feel like it. Simple. Deal with it Windows users.

 

9. Community driven

 

Even the major distro's still listen to their userbase more than Microsoft or Apple do. If they make a change (e.g. Cannonical's unity UI, yuck!), they eventually cave in to pressure from its users. If they don't, because of the free nature of the ecosystem, someone will create a fork/spin-off version of their distro (e.g. Mint), and welcome the disgruntled users of old.

This is a trait that can be seen on many levels. When Oracle acquired Sun, who initially created OpenOffice, the community (who rightfully dislikes and distrusts Oracle) decided to switch to LibreOffice. The philosophy of free an open software is, despite the sometimes chaotic discourse and choice-overload, preserved. If you care about personal freedom, you should care about free software, like Linux.

 

10. Developer experience

 

I tried to stay broad for as long as possible, but this is the main reason why I stuck with Linux. If you like programming, in whatever language, Linux just is a developer oriented system. It's built by geeks, for geeks. It's only in the last decade that companies have made an enormous effort to make the system a viable option for the everyday user. I believe it truly is an option for everyone now, and most people stick with Windows for gaming and out of habit. The gaming part, I do admit, is an area where Linux has some catching up to do, and it is making progress at breakneck speed. Much more than Windows is progressing in terms of developer experience, that's for sure (why else would so many devs make the switch to a *NIX system like MacOS?).

 

I've developed in many languages (C, C++, Java, Golang, Rust, JavaScript, Perl, PHP... just to name a few), getting my tooling set up either required no work at all, or was as easy as running a single command like "sudo dnf install php-dev nodejs -y"), and be on my way. From that point on, whenever I checked for system updates, I'd automatically be told if I could/needed to updated my development tools, too. Thinking back to the days where I had to deal with Windows, or brew on MacOS, I genuinely wonder how anyone puts up with it.

 

Lastly, on the development side: containers and virtualisation are industry standard things. Popular tools like docker are built around the linux kernel. You can run docker on MacOS, for example, but what it requires is for MacOS to run a virtual machine running linux behind the scenes. This means: you boot into OSX, just to start a VM running Linux, so you can run a container, thus negating the benefits of containers in terms of system resources.

 

11. Stability

 

Linux is stable. No really, I know Windows got a lot better, but Linux is still better. Not all distro's focus on stability, of course. Some aim for more bleeding edge software, which means sacrificing some stability, but run a home server on Slackware and it will be as reliable as the universe. It'll go on forever.

Even if you're being a complete numpty, and do something silly like accidentally delete the kernel of your OS and reboot, you'll be able to recover (you may have to google a few things if you're not an experienced user, of course).

There's a system update, and something broke? No problem, by default, most distro's will keep a copy of the previous kernel on disk, and at boot time, you'll be able to choose which version of the kernel you want to boot with.

Do you want to roll back an update? No problem

 

 

Right, I wanted to limit myself to 10 things, but the longer I spend typing here, the more things come to mind. I'm going to leave it here, because if I don't I'll be typing for days, and nobody will read it. I'd also get lost in more technical details, the amount of knowledge shared on the LKML, and how accessible core contributers can be...

 

Enough fanboy stuff, I've declared my bias at the start, I'm not ashamed of it, I genuinely believe Linux is the best system for me. If I had to make a list of some cons, I could do that, too:

 

1. Too often you'll hit a skill barrier

 

When you run into problems, and ask people for help, quite often you'll get an answer telling you to paste a few commands in a terminal window. Often this will work, but you've learnt nothing

 

2. It's still a nerdy system

 

Linux, although more user friendly than ever, still expects the user to be eager to get stuck in if you want to get the best possible experience

 

3. fragmented experience

 

Because of the myriad of DE/WM's and GUI API's, some applications have a different look and feel. One that doesn't always match your desktop environment. This makes the overall UI look and feel messy

 

4. Design by Engineer

 

It's a known problem. Engineers design a UX with their code in mind, not your experience. click-through wizards will ask you one question in the beginning, and only allow to further specify that option 5 steps later. If you read the code you can understand why, but as an end user, it can be jarring. A fictitious example: imagine you plugged in a mouse. A wizard pops up telling you your system detected new hardware and asks you whether it's a keyboard or mouse. You say it's a mouse, next, you're asked how many buttons your mouse has, you have left, right and a scroll-wheel. You answer 3,  hoping the next question asks about the function of the buttons. No such luck. The wizard goes on about asking you whether you have/want RGB support, what DPI your mouse supports, and after giving you a slider to set the DPI (in increments of 1), you're asked if the middle mouse button is a scroll wheel. Stuff like this happens, less and less, but it still happens and it's annoying for new users.

 

5. Community seems hostile

 

Now Linux users, like myself, want nothing more than for you to enjoy our favourite OS, but because we've invested years learning our way around the system, issues new users encounter can seem so simple we're likely to answer in a single sentence of tell you to RTFM. This can seem unwelcoming and hostile, I admit. There is, however, a good reason for this: you need to know how to get help from the system you're trying to use. It's part of learning to navigate any OS. Be self-reliant, basically.

 

Passionate people are loud. If you care about something, you want the world to know. You can be very enthusiastic, but an all-caps answer can be read as aggressive.

Old school Linux users have tons of knowledge, but are a bit neck-beardy. Show them you've tied to fix your problem, and they'll happily tell you where you went wrong. Tell them your problem and ask them to fix it, and they'll tell you to have intercourse with yourself. A lot of linux folk still chat on IRC channels, and interact in the way people used to do in the early days, when it was perfectly acceptable for a major website to include a bit in their Q&A along these lines:

 

Q: What if someone was blunt/rude/angry?
A: This is the internet, grow some balls.

 

I'm not making this up, the phrase "grow some balls" was somewhere in the "help" section of the well known site "stackoverflow" until about 5 years ago.

I want so bad to have a beer with you. I read all over your post, and despite being a bit sad that mine wasn't the longest post on the thread (I think), I recognize another follower of the church of Sain IGNUcius.

[Nena Trinity]

No because it no longer works with my motherboard, so much for best backwards compatibility... x-x