help overclocking ram - what speed is my ram even running at

[The Torrent]

i dont quite know what im doing

 

corsair vengance rgb pro 3600

asus b450 f

 

im in bios as ram is at 2666 and gonna set d o c p to profile 1. itsays the memory speed and timing.

 

do i still need to do some sort of mem test or is it ok if its just running the speeds already written on??

[The Torrent]

also to clear cmos do i have to take out cmos battery? graphics card is in the way so its gonna be effort.

[The Torrent]

idek what speed my rams running at.

 

i turned the thing on in the bios and now in ryzen master its ays 'memory clodk 1800' but my ram is 3600. is there some ration i neeed to set???

 

[mariushm]

Software like CPU-Z or Aida64 will tell you the current frequency of your RAM and the presets that are stored inside the ram sticks.

You can write the values for the preset you want and then compare the numbers with the ones listed in BIOS.

 

To reset bios settings, sometimes it's as simple as just holding down a button for a couple of seconds, if the motherboard has such a button. If there's no button, there's usually two pins on the motherboard - if you short those out by using a jumper or a flathead screwdriver for a couple of seconds then the settings should be lost. Manual should tell you. Read the manual if you don't know what you're doing.

 

If you really want to make sure the settings are erased, unplug your computer from the mains outlet (remove the cable or press the switch in the back of your power supply), then remove the battery for around 5-10 seconds. 

The battery is only used when the computer is completely disconnected from the power supply, otherwise the power supply will continue to give power and hold the settings active... so it's important to disconnect both power / turn off power supply AND remove battery.

 

Note the frequency of ram sticks is HALF what's advertised ... for example a 3000 Mhz memory stick will show as running at 1500 Mhz and you'll see a 1500 Mhz preset in the memory stick. That's normal.

[The Torrent]

1 minute ago, mariushm said:

Software like CPU-Z or Aida64 will tell you the current frequency of your RAM and the presets that are stored inside the ram sticks.

You can write the values for the preset you want and then compare the numbers with the ones listed in BIOS.

 

To reset bios settings, sometimes it's as simple as just holding down a button for a couple of seconds, if the motherboard has such a button. If there's no button, there's usually two pins on the motherboard - if you short those out by using a jumper or a flathead screwdriver for a couple of seconds then the settings should be lost. Manual should tell you. Read the manual if you don't know what you're doing.

 

If you really want to make sure the settings are erased, unplug your computer from the mains outlet (remove the cable or press the switch in the back of your power supply), then remove the battery for around 5-10 seconds. 

The battery is only used when the computer is completely disconnected from the power supply, otherwise the power supply will continue to give power and hold the settings active... so it's important to disconnect both power / turn off power supply AND remove battery.

 

Note the frequency of ram sticks is HALF what's advertised ... for example a 3000 Mhz memory stick will show as running at 1500 Mhz and you'll see a 1500 Mhz preset in the memory stick. That's normal.

so does it all look good on that photo??

 

what about that nb frequency?

[mariushm]

7 minutes ago, The Torrent said:

idek what speed my rams running at.

 

i turned the thing on in the bios and now in ryzen master its ays 'memory clodk 1800' but my ram is 3600. is there some ration i neeed to set???

 

It runs at 2 x 1799.5 = 3,599 Mhz , with 18-22-22-22  timings.  Click on the SPD tab and check the profiles... see if there's some better timings for your 3600 Mhz configuration (doubt it)

 

It shows there that it runs in coupled mode, meaning the memory controller runs at 1800 Mhz, same as the memory sticks, which is perfect. It's slightly better performance (lower latency) if the frequencies are the same in both controller and memory sticks.

 

[The Torrent]

1 minute ago, mariushm said:

It runs at 2 x 1799.5 = 3,599 Mhz , with 18-22-22-22  timings.  Click on the SPD tab and check the profiles... see if there's some better timings for your 3600 Mhz configuration (doubt it)

 

so on other computers, the nb frequency seems to be double the memory frequency, but mines not. why??

 

i dont undestand what thats saying. says max bandwith 2666???

[mariushm]

DDR1, DDR2, DDR3, DDR4 send data on both edges of the clock. So for every Hz, there's two bits of information sent. Because of this, to prevent confusion  with older styles of memory, marketing and everyone just advertises the memory sticks as double the actual frequency.

 

So your 3600 Mhz memory sticks actually run at 1800 Mhz and that's their normal operating frequency.

 

RAM chips are standardized by an organization called JEDEC, which defines some minimum performance numbers or parameters for various frequencies. In theory, ALL memory chip manufacturers must make memory chips fast enough and quality enough to reach or even exceed those minimum performance parameters JEDEC picked.

 

For DDR4, JEDEC has only standardized frequencies up to 2666 Mhz.  A memory stick would normally have a JEDEC profile for 1866 Mhz, one for 2133 Mhz, one for 2400 Mhz and one for 2666 Mhz, if the memory stick is actually capable of achieving that performance.

The BIOS on your motherboard is supposed to go through those profiles and pick the highest performance profile the motherboard can work with.

For example, if your motherboard has a "budget" chipset or a budget cpu like Athlon 200GE for example, the motherboard may only accept memory frequencies up to 2400 Mhz, so it will pick the 2400 Mhz profile from the list - if there's no such profile in the memory stick, it will use the standard JEDEC profile stored inside the BIOS.

 

Your stick seems to have 3 profiles for 2666 Mhz (2 x 1333 Mhz) instead of including profiles for lower frequencies, but that's OK, it's allowed. (edit: it could be the stick has more profiles in it, but CPU-Z maybe shows only the top 4 profiles)

 

So for anything higher than 2666 Mhz at this moment there's no standard profile standardized by JEDEC, so that's why the stick says "max bandwidth ddr4-2666 mhz".

 

The actual memory chips on the ram stick are also sold by the memory chip manufacturer as 2666 Mhz chips, but the manufacturing process is so good that majority of those memory chips can run at higher frequencies, if you loosen those parameters a bit and increase the voltage.

So that's what Corsair did : they bought a few hundred thousand memory chips guaranteed by Micron to work at 2666 Mhz and 1.2v, and they tested each tiny chip thoroughly to make sure these chips function properly at 3600 Mhz, if the voltage is increased to 1.35v

So, technically it's a factory overclocking, but it's a guaranteed factory overclocking.

 

To be on the super safe side, most motherboards will default to using the memory at the standard 2666 Mhz or one of the lower frequencies (2133 Mhz or 2400 Mhz) because they follow standards. But if you go in BIOS and select that DOCP mode, you're simply telling the motherboard (and the BIOS) that it's OK to trust the memory manufacturer and to use that profile XMP-3596, which increases the voltage from 1.2v to 1.35v and raises the memory frequency to 1800 Mhz.

 

Hope it's clear... if not, ask what's not clear and I'll explain.

 

 

[The Torrent]

15 minutes ago, mariushm said:

DDR1, DDR2, DDR3, DDR4 send data on both edges of the clock. So for every Hz, there's two bits of information sent. Because of this, to prevent confusion  with older styles of memory, marketing and everyone just advertises the memory sticks as double the actual frequency.

 

So your 3600 Mhz memory sticks actually run at 1800 Mhz and that's their normal operating frequency.

 

RAM chips are standardized by an organization called JEDEC, which defines some minimum performance numbers or parameters for various frequencies. In theory, ALL memory chip manufacturers must make memory chips fast enough and quality enough to reach or even exceed those minimum performance parameters JEDEC picked.

 

For DDR4, JEDEC has only standardized frequencies up to 2666 Mhz.  A memory stick would normally have a JEDEC profile for 1866 Mhz, one for 2133 Mhz, one for 2400 Mhz and one for 2666 Mhz, if the memory stick is actually capable of achieving that performance.

The BIOS on your motherboard is supposed to go through those profiles and pick the highest performance profile the motherboard can work with.

For example, if your motherboard has a "budget" chipset or a budget cpu like Athlon 200GE for example, the motherboard may only accept memory frequencies up to 2400 Mhz, so it will pick the 2400 Mhz profile from the list - if there's no such profile in the memory stick, it will use the standard JEDEC profile stored inside the BIOS.

 

Your stick seems to have 3 profiles for 2666 Mhz (2 x 1333 Mhz) instead of including profiles for lower frequencies, but that's OK, it's allowed. (edit: it could be the stick has more profiles in it, but CPU-Z maybe shows only the top 4 profiles)

 

So for anything higher than 2666 Mhz at this moment there's no standard profile standardized by JEDEC, so that's why the stick says "max bandwidth ddr4-2666 mhz".

 

The actual memory chips on the ram stick are also sold by the memory chip manufacturer as 2666 Mhz chips, but the manufacturing process is so good that majority of those memory chips can run at higher frequencies, if you loosen those parameters a bit and increase the voltage.

So that's what Corsair did : they bought a few hundred thousand memory chips guaranteed by Micron to work at 2666 Mhz and 1.2v, and they tested each tiny chip thoroughly to make sure these chips function properly at 3600 Mhz, if the voltage is increased to 1.35v

So, technically it's a factory overclocking, but it's a guaranteed factory overclocking.

 

To be on the super safe side, most motherboards will default to using the memory at the standard 2666 Mhz or one of the lower frequencies (2133 Mhz or 2400 Mhz) because they follow standards. But if you go in BIOS and select that DOCP mode, you're simply telling the motherboard (and the BIOS) that it's OK to trust the memory manufacturer and to use that profile XMP-3596, which increases the voltage from 1.2v to 1.35v and raises the memory frequency to 1800 Mhz.

 

Hope it's clear... if not, ask what's not clear and I'll explain.

 

 

i think i get most of that thanks a lot.

 

but what about the nb frequency? on all my other computers its like double what it is here its between 3k - 4k and here its same as ram. is something broken there??

[mariushm]

There's no northbridge chip anymore. Traditionally, the northbridge contained the pci-e controller, the memory controller and optional integrated video card and made the connection to the southbridge which contains the peripherals (sata controller, usb controller, extra pci-e slots, pci, bios, ps2 keyboard and mouse, other things).

Nowadays the pci-e controller and the memory controller is inside the CPU and the memory controller works at the same speed as the memory, which is 1800 Mhz.

The latest Ryzen 3xxx series can actually "decouple" from the memory frequency, for example you could have the memory controller at 1800 Mhz and the memory at 1500 Mhz (for 3000 Mhz memory sticks) so you get better performance compared to staying coupled at 1500 Mhz. Previous Ryzen generations had to stay in sync with the memory stick frequency and that's why Ryzen processors worked faster with higher frequency memory.

Now, the effect of slower memory is less pronounced with Ryzen 3xxx processors. You still have a benefit, just not as pronounced.

 

[The Torrent]

9 minutes ago, mariushm said:

There's no northbridge chip anymore. Traditionally, the northbridge contained the pci-e controller, the memory controller and optional integrated video card and made the connection to the southbridge which contains the peripherals (sata controller, usb controller, extra pci-e slots, pci, bios, ps2 keyboard and mouse, other things).

Nowadays the pci-e controller and the memory controller is inside the CPU and the memory controller works at the same speed as the memory, which is 1800 Mhz.

The latest Ryzen 3xxx series can actually "decouple" from the memory frequency, for example you could have the memory controller at 1800 Mhz and the memory at 1500 Mhz (for 3000 Mhz memory sticks) so you get better performance compared to staying coupled at 1500 Mhz. Previous Ryzen generations had to stay in sync with the memory stick frequency and that's why Ryzen processors worked faster with higher frequency memory.

Now, the effect of slower memory is less pronounced with Ryzen 3xxx processors. You still have a benefit, just not as pronounced.

 

sorry i dont understand.

 

so that frequency means nothing? 

 

i read online that the nb is how fast cpu reads ram and its double ram speed because its dual channel - so thats rubbish??

 

my alienware 17 has it double its a 8th gen intel cpu.

[mariushm]

NB is short for northbridge.

 

In the past there used to be two big chips on the motherboard: northbridge and southbridge.

Over time, to improve performance of processors, the functionality of the northbridge chip has moved inside the processors, so there's no longer a northbridge chip.

 

Ryzen processors have a thing called Infinity Fabric ... think of it as a super highway to which everything is connected : the cpu cores, the pci-e controller, the memory controller, the southbridge (chipset)

The higher the frequency of this Infinity Fabric, the faster the data will be moved to processor cores and other things on the highway.

For this reason, it's ideal that the memory controller frequency is the same as the Infinity Fabric because if the numbers are mismatched, from time to time it could happen that the Infinity Fabric is ready to receive data and move it along where it needs to go, but the memory controller isn't yet ready to give the data (data didn't arrive yet from memory sticks)... so the infinity fabric wastes a tick or several ticks (those Hz) waiting for data to be ready.

In previous generations, the Infinity Fabric frequency was locked to the memory controller frequency, so for example if the memory controller ran at 1200 Mhz (for 2400 Mhz sticks) so did the Infinity Fabric frequency, which resulted in lower performance.

In the last generation of Ryzen processors, they implemented a decoupler, making it easier to run the Infinity fabric at a frequency different than the memory controller frequency.

 

Dual Channel doesn't increase the performance the way you think it does.

 

Think of it like this: You have two trucks full of information but you have two warehouses: the first warehouse has one unloading bay, the other warehouse has two unloading bays.

 

If you use the first warehouse, the two trucks arrive one after the other, and if each truck unloads in one hour, you need two hours to unload both trucks.

With dual channel, it still takes the same amount of time for the trucks to arrive to your warehouse, but both trucks unload at the same time, so it takes only one hour to unload both trucks.

 

So with dual channel mode, the frequency is the same (the speed of the trucks and the distance to your warehouse is frequency in this analogy), but because data is read or written to two memory sticks at the same time (loading or unloading two trucks at the same time), it takes half the time to obtain the data.

 

When dealing with memory, the memory controller needs a few nanoseconds to send the command to memory sticks and the memory sticks need some time to prepare the data, and then the data arrives to the memory controller in a burst of time.

With dual channel, that burst takes half as long time, because each stick only transfers half the information.