Privacy again - Mercedes Tracking Customers.

[Guest]

Seems the three pointed Swastika have been fitting covert gps systems to their leased and credit purchased cars here in brexit central. While it is illegal in the whole EU to track anyone or anything g in this way, it seems the slime balls at Mercedes weasel their way around the law by slapping a waiver hidden in the huge contract agreements. 
 

From the PCmag article.
 

Quote

Mercedes-Benz is using an unorthodox approach to making sure customers keep up on their car payments: tracking vehicle location in the event it needs to be repossessed.

According to UK newspaper The Sun, Mercedes-Benz has been fitting sensors inside new and used vehicles, which can pinpoint their exact whereabouts. That information can then be shared with bailiffs and third-party recovery firms.

Mercedes have yet to say who they are sharing the data with, and how often they are collecting it.

 

Quote

Still, it raises some questions about potential surveillance of customers. So far, Mercedes-Benz hasn't elaborated on whether all company cars have been fitted with the tracking technology. But the automaker's spokesperson and the brand's privacy policies do note that Mercedes-Benz will collect customers' vehicle location to power certain features like navigation or emergency services.

"We place great importance on the responsible and transparent use of customer data. The customer determines which services he wants to use and which data he wants to pass on —either by consent, by contract or at the push of a button," the automaker's spokesperson said.

 

According to Mercedes-Benz's privacy policies, you can opt out of the tracking, but it requires contacting the automaker or deactivating the affected services.

So they suggest they are collecting data also for navigation purposes. While this is little new, google do it to map traffic jams etc, this certainly feels a bit big brother from Mercedes. With google maps or to TomTom navigation you can simply switch it off. Mercedes offer an opt out “if” you now you are being tracked in the first place, and if you go to the automaker, pay them a fee and also loose some of the features of your car.

 

A lot of new cars are fitted with an emergency help button that sends your location to the emergency services. In most cases this is only transmitting your details when you are screaming in pain upside down in a ditch and jabbing the button with your blood stained pinky. I would guess the Mercedes system has to be always on, so we have to trust them to only collect the data when they deem fit. What they deem acceptable may not match what we feel is acceptable.

 

As a company car driver myself, although currently driving a Toyota, it does pose the question as to whether Mercedes are tracking company car drivers. These vehicles are also leased in most cases, so if it is the policy of the brand then company car drivers will not have seen the lease contract. As such how could this group of drivers make a decision and opt out? Unfortunately Mercedes will not say whether or not company cars have been fitted with these devices.

 

With more tech entering our cars, including cameras inside and outside of the car as well as audio recordings many are concerned our privacy is being eroded faster than global warming. It certainly seems odd that every time a Tesla crashes they know whether the driver was at fault very quickly.

 

[Levent]

6 minutes ago, Phill104 said:

So they suggest they are collecting data also for navigation purposes. While this is little new, google do it to map traffic jams etc, this certainly feels a bit big brother from Mercedes. With google maps or to TomTom navigation you can simply switch it off. 

 

Not really, Audi did a tech demonstration of car mesh networks sharing traffic data, couple of years ago and I am dead certain, BMW, Audi, VW gathers location data too. Also out of all news websites, thesun is the definition of clickbait. I wouldnt trust anything they release.

[Stormseeker9]

Yup.. thesun is utter garbage

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Levent said:

Not really, Audi did a tech demonstration of car mesh networks sharing traffic data, couple of years ago and I am dead certain, BMW, Audi, VW gathers location data too. Also out of all news websites, thesun is the definition of clickbait. I wouldnt trust anything they release.

I totally agree about The Sun, it could only get worse if The Daily Mail wrote it... That is why I used the PCmag article rather than directly quote the tabloid trash.

 

However numerous news sources have approached the other German brands and they have stated they are not tracking customers. Mercedes have also responded.

 

Since posting above I found a news report from the eloquent John Cadogan on the subject. Made me chuckle. You have to respect the straight to the point talking of your average Aussie 

 

 

[Maslofski]

legal or not, tracking cars that arent payd off seems like a reasonable proposition

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Maslofski said:

legal or not, tracking cars that arent payd off seems like a reasonable proposition

Not really. Not unless you fully disclose how that data is used and where it is shared. Does the driver have a right to k ow they are being tracked? Why should being a company car driver give third and fourth parties the right to track your every move and share that data?

 

If the system was only active in a recovery situation then fine, but it sounds like it is always on.

[Curious Pineapple]

11 minutes ago, Maslofski said:

legal or not, tracking cars that arent payd off seems like a reasonable proposition

Depends on the agreement. In the UK once 1/3rd of the payments have been made the vehicle becomes protected and it required a court order to recover it. Tracking it and turning up with a spare set of keys would be theft, even though they still legally own it.

[Arika]

2 hours ago, Phill104 said:

Seems the three pointed Swastika

gee, good job hiding your bias

[RedRound2]

I doubt its any different for any internet enabled car, including Tesla.

It’s just the world we live in today

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Arika S said:

gee, good job hiding your bias

Not really a bias, lots of people call them that even in Germany where up until recently my employer was (they split into UK and Europe just before one of the brexit deadlines sadly). I am also happy to insult any other motor brand, even the good ones. Since dieselgate they have all been fair game. Before that Audi, Merc and BMW were mainly just insulted for being owned by drivers that were happy to sit 3mm from your rear end or do 120mph in a 70. That says a lot about the kind of owners those brands attract here in the UK. Oddly, in other parts of the world different car brands attract the same type of driver while the likes of Merc seen as cars to be owned by the rich, older driver. With peer pressure and the ability to lease Smaller Merc and Audi’s with big engines are driven by younger, spoilt 20yr old lads with little experience to handle a powerful rear wheel drive car. One particular insurance company here in the UK stated that 36% of all their speed related fatalities were involving a Merc. This is not down to the safety of these cars, they are extremely good on that front, but the type of driver they seem to attract. It is also partly the reason they have ended up with that nick name. 
 

 

[PlayStation 2]

Ah yes, Mercedes doing dumb shit yet again. When was this a shock to anyone?

[Curious Pineapple]

1 hour ago, Phill104 said:

Not really a bias, lots of people call them that even in Germany where up until recently my employer was (they split into UK and Europe just before one of the brexit deadlines sadly). I am also happy to insult any other motor brand, even the good ones. Since dieselgate they have all been fair game. Before that Audi, Merc and BMW were mainly just insulted for being owned by drivers that were happy to sit 3mm from your rear end or do 120mph in a 70. That says a lot about the kind of owners those brands attract here in the UK. Oddly, in other parts of the world different car brands attract the same type of driver while the likes of Merc seen as cars to be owned by the rich, older driver. With peer pressure and the ability to lease Smaller Merc and Audi’s with big engines are driven by younger, spoilt 20yr old lads with little experience to handle a powerful rear wheel drive car. One particular insurance company here in the UK stated that 36% of all their speed related fatalities were involving a Merc. This is not down to the safety of these cars, they are extremely good on that front, but the type of driver they seem to attract. It is also partly the reason they have ended up with that nick name. 
 

 

3mm? Still plenty of room there

[Yeroh]

3 hours ago, Phill104 said:

Not really a bias, lots of people call them that even in Germany

Um, no?

 

I've lived in the Stuttgart area my whole life and I've never heard this before.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Yeroh said:

Um, no?

 

I've lived in the Stuttgart area my whole life and I've never heard this before.

I suppose then it is the area I worked in. Please, it is the brand, not the German people I was insulting. Like Aussies, I appreciate the straight talking attitude of the German people as a whole. As I said, it is a brand that often attracts those who have little care for others here in the UK.

[Belgarathian]

I get the feeling you're not a fan of Mercedes....

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Belgarathian said:

I get the feeling you're not a fan of Mercedes....

I am not a fan of any automotive brand. To me they are just transport. I am certainly not a fan of the types of driver that tend to purchase the perceived luxury brands here in the UK, which are typically the German ones. Not suggesting bell ends don’t also drive other brands, but if you drive the kinds of high mileages I do you will soon see the number of cars that are doing a ton up on the motorway are made up of a high percentage of Audi, BMW and Mercedes drivers.

 

I do however lambaste brands when they do silly things like this. I also cannot understand how other brands such as Jeep dare to launch a car that gets a one star safety rating, or any of the brands that lied about their emissions. In the case of VW I actually think it has improved them as a company and are now seemingly more open and are investigating more than any other company in EV. 
 

Here in the UK there is still pressure on company car drivers to go with big Diesel engined cars, and that frustrates me. For instance, my company car list includes 4ltr Audi and Merc diesels, huge diesel land rovers and jags etc. What is not on our lists are any full EV cars, so a Renault Zoe is our of the question. The only hybrids we can have are from Toyota, so I choose to go that way. From speaking to someone at a lease company (so this is here say to some extent), the “luxury” brands apply pressure on some lease companies, as well as giving them good deals, to push those engines. If true, and I tend to believe it and to some extent understand it, this doesn’t earn them my respect. The traditional car makers have a huge number of employees in their factories which are hard to convert. German laws also are some of the best in the world when it comes to employee rights so again, that makes it hard for them in many ways to move forward. But don’t forget, it is these brands that have pushed the image of ever bigger luxury cars, and have enabled people to get them on finance. Here in the UK at least, many business users are expected to fit in with that Image (many of my colleagues do), and they then pass that on to their children and wives. For me there is absolutely no need for a 500ML on UK roads, or in fact any other massive car. Certain people at work every time car renewal comes try and push me in the direction of either a luxury German car or something from JLR, then ridicule me when I order a small hybrid. One chap in particular has then had to hold his head in shame when he wanted some help moving his daughter as he couldn’t fit some of her stuff in his huge Jag with a boot designed to just fit a set of golf clubs.

 

Rant over.

[samcool55]

Seems to me that GDPR is going to cause them some problems here.

Like, I doubt it's fine for a big car company to track cars that are sold to customers without any agreement of the customer.

Also, what happens to 2nd hand cars? It's perfectly possible the first owner agreed to the tracking stuff but the second one isn't. How are they going to handle that?

[Arika]

8 hours ago, Phill104 said:

I am also happy to insult any other motor brand,

So because you don't like a brand, you think it's acceptible to say their logo is analogous to the symbol for the nazi party? 

 

The hell is wrong with you? Why is nazi the go to for this generation of people. Don't like someone or something? Say they are a nazi. Bam got 'em, now everyone else can dogpile on them for me. 

 

It's lost all meaning because people like you just slap it on anything. 

[Guest]

It’s perfectly acceptable to track unpaid cars like this. You don’t actually own the car yet if you’re still paying it off. Technically, they are tracking the bank’s or the dealer’s car.

[Drak3]

9 minutes ago, Arika S said:

So because you don't like a brand, you think it's acceptible to say their logo is analogous to the symbol for the nazi party? 

 

The hell is wrong with you? Why is nazi the go to for this generation of people. Don't like someone or something? Say they are a nazi. Bam got 'em, now everyone else can dogpile on them for me. 

 

It's lost all meaning because people like you just slap it on anything. 

That's something a Nazi would say!

 

 

 

 

/s

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Arika S said:

So because you don't like a brand, you think it's acceptible to say their logo is analogous to the symbol for the nazi party? 

 

The hell is wrong with you? Why is nazi the go to for this generation of people. Don't like someone or something? Say they are a nazi. Bam got 'em, now everyone else can dogpile on them for me. 

 

It's lost all meaning because people like you just slap it on anything. 

Seems you have lost any sense of humour or perspective. There is no intent to take away from the atrocities of the holocaust. I am simply repeating a current comment that is being used about a brand. In many ways, using comments in this way helps us remember what went on. If we do not talk about such things whether it be in jest or not,  then we risk letting the deaths of millions of innocent people be forgotten, and risk a repeat.

Oh, and I dislike the automotive industry in general, not just Mercedes. It just happens to be the subject of this news. 

[Marinatall_Ironside]

7 minutes ago, floofer said:

It’s perfectly acceptable to track unpaid cars like this. You don’t actually own the car yet if you’re still paying it off. Technically, they are tracking the bank’s or the dealer’s car.

Exactly. People seem to be ignorant that a lease means they don't own it, the bank, dealer, or whoever you negotiated with to pay off a car over a time period, owns it. There's also agreements with what you can do and can't with your car (e.g. bolting on performance mods or body kits) that the leasing company says, otherwise rates go up or they can repo it.

 

Want to be the one that owns the car and no one else and do whatever you want with it? Buy it outright, in whole, and at the negotiated final sale price instead!

[Marinatall_Ironside]

1 minute ago, Phill104 said:

Seems you have lost any sense of humour or perspective. There is no intent to take away from the atrocities of the holocaust. I am simply repeating a current comment that is being used about a brand. In many ways, using comments in this way helps us remember what went on. If we do not talk about such things whether it be in jest or not,  then we risk letting the deaths of millions of innocent people be forgotten, and risk a repeat.

 

Humour or not, it's bad taste mate.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Jurunce said:

Humour or not, it's bad taste mate.

It is only bad taste if you choose to take it that way. Some people would take offence at another wearing leather, or drinking milk. If people are offended so what, that is their choice.

Ricky Gervais said

Quote

Most offence is either caused by people mistaking the subject of the joke with the actual target or taking the joke personally. People love freedom of speech until they hear something they don't agree with.

The role of satire is to make people think. Any comment that seems in poor taste does just that, makes people think. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Jurunce said:

Exactly. People seem to be ignorant that a lease means they don't own it, the bank, dealer, or whoever you negotiated with to pay off a car over a time period, owns it. There's also agreements with what you can do and can't with your car (e.g. bolting on performance mods or body kits) that the leasing company says, otherwise rates go up or they can repo it.

 

Want to be the one that owns the car and no one else and do whatever you want with it? Buy it outright, in whole, and at the negotiated final sale price instead!

While that is true, any such system should only be activated in the event of a breach. It appears in this case it is not. Nor should users have to worry about loosing features if they decide they don’t want unknown parties tracking their every move. Nor should company car drivers be tracked by unknown third parties simply because they have a benefit car. Nor should second owners be tracked after they have paid off the car. When Facebook or Apple get accused of any infringement on people privacy they get attacked, but when loved car brands do the same they get defended by many. Very duplicitous.