Small church looking for advice

[Iamturbo1978]

Hello everyone,

 

I am trying to bring our 100+ year old church into the 20th century by adding WiFi throughout the church. The building is large, with 3 floors in total. We want to have coverage for certain areas. The sanctuary, classrooms, and a theater room. 

 

I am trying to stay away from using an IT company to install and setup the system. I'm only doing that because of the cost. The church doesn't have deep pocket books, and I don't want to waist money on something that I can do at a lower cost (just price of hardware and wire).

 

I use to do some business networking over 10 years ago, so I do have a little idea of what I need to do. But since I've not done it in a while, I'm getting really confused. I know I will need WAP's to offer the coverage, and I will need some kind of switch/router to connect the WAP's together. But that is about it.

 

So my question to everyone one here is... What advice, parts, systems, and/or information can you provide that will help me figure out how to make this happen?

 

Thank you for your time, and I hope someone can help me out

 

AJ

[NelizMastr]

Ubiquiti gear is ideal for this. You can even link them wirelessly if there's no possibility to run cables to them, creating a mesh like system.

 

Just get 3 AP AC LR access points and a switch and you should be good to go once you've set them up. I'd recommend a cloud key if you don't have a computer to run the controller software on.

[Iamturbo1978]

Wonderful!! Thank you so much. That will help me out a lot.

[intertan]

2nd ubiquity

 

[kirashi]

On 8/21/2019 at 3:46 AM, Iamturbo1978 said:

--SNIP--

So my question to everyone one here is... What advice, parts, systems, and/or information can you provide that will help me figure out how to make this happen?

UBNT (Ubiquiti) gear is your best friend. If you're only just getting started, check out Lawrence Systems & Crosstalk Solutions for a plethora of videos on their gear.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTecknowledge/search?query=Ubiquiti

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVS6ejD9NLZvjsvhcbiDzjw/search?query=ubiquiti

[Iamturbo1978]

18 hours ago, kirashi said:

UBNT (Ubiquiti) gear is your best friend. If you're only just getting started, check out Lawrence Systems & Crosstalk Solutions for a plethora of videos on their gear.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTecknowledge/search?query=Ubiquiti

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVS6ejD9NLZvjsvhcbiDzjw/search?query=ubiquiti

Awesome!... Thank you much. 

[dalekphalm]

On 8/21/2019 at 6:46 AM, Iamturbo1978 said:

Hello everyone,

 

I am trying to bring our 100+ year old church into the 20th century by adding WiFi throughout the church. The building is large, with 3 floors in total. We want to have coverage for certain areas. The sanctuary, classrooms, and a theater room. 

 

I am trying to stay away from using an IT company to install and setup the system. I'm only doing that because of the cost. The church doesn't have deep pocket books, and I don't want to waist money on something that I can do at a lower cost (just price of hardware and wire).

 

I use to do some business networking over 10 years ago, so I do have a little idea of what I need to do. But since I've not done it in a while, I'm getting really confused. I know I will need WAP's to offer the coverage, and I will need some kind of switch/router to connect the WAP's together. But that is about it.

 

So my question to everyone one here is... What advice, parts, systems, and/or information can you provide that will help me figure out how to make this happen?

 

Thank you for your time, and I hope someone can help me out

 

AJ

I'll simplify this for you.

 

Precursor questions:

1. Does the church have an existing Internet Plan?

2. If yes, is it fast enough to support the expected WIFI clients?

3. What kind of connection is it? DSL? Cable? Fibre? What speed is the connection? What is the model of Modem?

4. Do you have a combination Modem/Router, or is the router a separate box? If yes, what is the model of Router?

 

Here's what you need:

1. A modem (you may already have this - it may also contain the router)

1a. (Optional) A separate router

2. A Gigabit Network Switch - unmanaged is fine, unless you plan on doing VLAN's, etc - which actually might be a good idea, depending on how the church staff computer network operates.

2a. (Optional, but highly recommended) A Gigabit PoE (Power over Ethernet)  Network Switch

3. Run Cat 6 (or better) ethernet cable from the Switch to each location you want to have a WAP (Wireless Access Point). Any normal sized room is likely totally fine with a single WAP covering it - one WAP may also cover several smaller rooms that are located beside each other. The large room or rooms may require 1 or 2 WAP's for full coverage. I would start with one though, unless you know the room is too large.

4. Install the WAP's at the end of the network cable - the reason I recommended PoE before, is because without PoE, you need to find a power outlet that's near the WAP (possibly requiring an extension cord), or you'll need to use a PoE injector (connected from the switch to the injector to the ethernet run) for each WAP. The PoE switch will eliminate the need for other power, and makes installation locations significantly more flexible.

 

Considerations: Consumer WAP's or Enterprise grade WAP's - this is mostly a budgetary question.

 

I'll show an example setup (Assuming US location, all prices in USD):

1. Modem - provided by ISP (making an assumption here)

2. Router: Ubiquiti Edgerouter Lite - $100 - x1 https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Edgerouter-ERLITE-3-Desktop-Router/dp/B00HXT8EKE/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=ubiquiti+edgerouter&qid=1566676593&s=gateway&sr=8-3

3. WAP (Classrooms): Unifi AP AC Lite - $80 x1 - https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Lite-UAPACLITEUS/dp/B015PR20GY/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=unify+ap+ac&qid=1566676770&s=gateway&sr=8-3

4. WAP (Sanctuary + Theatre - assuming both are large rooms): Unifi AP AC LR (Long Range) - $100 x2 - https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Long-Range/dp/B015PRCBBI/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=unifi+apaclr&qid=1566676966&s=gateway&sr=8-1

5. PoE Switch: Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 8 - PoE (Supports Passive PoE and PoE+) - $200 x1 - https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-EdgeSwitch-Managed-Gigabit-ES-8-150W/dp/B01LHU98EK/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=edgeswitch+8&qid=1566677008&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Total: $580 USD plus taxes and shipping

 

Note: This setup assumes you will configure each AP manually with no central management, or you'll run the management software on a dedicated PC ("Server") or VM.

 

Optional:

6. Unifi Cloud Key (Centralized Management device for the WAP's) - $100 x1 - https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UniFi-Cloud-Key-UC-CK/dp/B017T2QB22/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=unifi+cloud+key&qid=1566677169&s=gateway&sr=8-1

 

This will bring the total to $680 USD plus taxes and shipping. Add in 1000ft of Cat6 at $130, plus your labour costs (unless you will do this for free):

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Cat6-Ethernet-Bulk-Cable/dp/B008I8AIXK/ref=sr_1_3?crid=32GHPX9URR1VB&keywords=cat6+1000ft&qid=1566677357&s=gateway&sprefix=cat6+100%2Caps%2C169&sr=8-3

 

Brings the total to $810

 

Note: you may not actually need 1000ft of Ethernet Cable - figure out how much you need, and decide whether you'll make the cables yourself (crimp them) or just buy pre-made lengths. You could also get a small rack with a Patch Panel, etc - if you want to go the extra mile.

 

Lastly: Make sure you get the correct rated cable for the usage - eg: if it's being run in the walls or ceilings, make sure that whatever government regulations (Fire/electrical code, etc) are followed.

 

You could go a lot cheaper by just buying 3-4 consumer WIFI Routers that have WIFI Mesh tech - such as the ASUS AIMesh. But the quality of the service may suffer, and you'll have less control over management.

 

Questions?

 

 

[Edward78]

dalekphalm If he gets PoE, he can just put a WAP in each room & hook it up to the PoE right?

[Iamturbo1978]

On 8/24/2019 at 4:13 PM, dalekphalm said:

I'll simplify this for you.

 

Precursor questions:

1. Does the church have an existing Internet Plan?

2. If yes, is it fast enough to support the expected WIFI clients?

3. What kind of connection is it? DSL? Cable? Fibre? What speed is the connection? What is the model of Modem?

4. Do you have a combination Modem/Router, or is the router a separate box? If yes, what is the model of Router?

 

Here's what you need:

1. A modem (you may already have this - it may also contain the router)

1a. (Optional) A separate router

2. A Gigabit Network Switch - unmanaged is fine, unless you plan on doing VLAN's, etc - which actually might be a good idea, depending on how the church staff computer network operates.

2a. (Optional, but highly recommended) A Gigabit PoE (Power over Ethernet)  Network Switch

3. Run Cat 6 (or better) ethernet cable from the Switch to each location you want to have a WAP (Wireless Access Point). Any normal sized room is likely totally fine with a single WAP covering it - one WAP may also cover several smaller rooms that are located beside each other. The large room or rooms may require 1 or 2 WAP's for full coverage. I would start with one though, unless you know the room is too large.

4. Install the WAP's at the end of the network cable - the reason I recommended PoE before, is because without PoE, you need to find a power outlet that's near the WAP (possibly requiring an extension cord), or you'll need to use a PoE injector (connected from the switch to the injector to the ethernet run) for each WAP. The PoE switch will eliminate the need for other power, and makes installation locations significantly more flexible.

 

Considerations: Consumer WAP's or Enterprise grade WAP's - this is mostly a budgetary question.

 

I'll show an example setup (Assuming US location, all prices in USD):

1. Modem - provided by ISP (making an assumption here)

2. Router: Ubiquiti Edgerouter Lite - $100 - x1 https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Edgerouter-ERLITE-3-Desktop-Router/dp/B00HXT8EKE/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=ubiquiti+edgerouter&qid=1566676593&s=gateway&sr=8-3

3. WAP (Classrooms): Unifi AP AC Lite - $80 x1 - https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Lite-UAPACLITEUS/dp/B015PR20GY/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=unify+ap+ac&qid=1566676770&s=gateway&sr=8-3

4. WAP (Sanctuary + Theatre - assuming both are large rooms): Unifi AP AC LR (Long Range) - $100 x2 - https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Long-Range/dp/B015PRCBBI/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=unifi+apaclr&qid=1566676966&s=gateway&sr=8-1

5. PoE Switch: Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 8 - PoE (Supports Passive PoE and PoE+) - $200 x1 - https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-EdgeSwitch-Managed-Gigabit-ES-8-150W/dp/B01LHU98EK/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=edgeswitch+8&qid=1566677008&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Total: $580 USD plus taxes and shipping

 

Note: This setup assumes you will configure each AP manually with no central management, or you'll run the management software on a dedicated PC ("Server") or VM.

 

Optional:

6. Unifi Cloud Key (Centralized Management device for the WAP's) - $100 x1 - https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UniFi-Cloud-Key-UC-CK/dp/B017T2QB22/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=unifi+cloud+key&qid=1566677169&s=gateway&sr=8-1

 

This will bring the total to $680 USD plus taxes and shipping. Add in 1000ft of Cat6 at $130, plus your labour costs (unless you will do this for free):

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Cat6-Ethernet-Bulk-Cable/dp/B008I8AIXK/ref=sr_1_3?crid=32GHPX9URR1VB&keywords=cat6+1000ft&qid=1566677357&s=gateway&sprefix=cat6+100%2Caps%2C169&sr=8-3

 

Brings the total to $810

 

Note: you may not actually need 1000ft of Ethernet Cable - figure out how much you need, and decide whether you'll make the cables yourself (crimp them) or just buy pre-made lengths. You could also get a small rack with a Patch Panel, etc - if you want to go the extra mile.

 

Lastly: Make sure you get the correct rated cable for the usage - eg: if it's being run in the walls or ceilings, make sure that whatever government regulations (Fire/electrical code, etc) are followed.

 

You could go a lot cheaper by just buying 3-4 consumer WIFI Routers that have WIFI Mesh tech - such as the ASUS AIMesh. But the quality of the service may suffer, and you'll have less control over management.

 

Questions?

 

 

WOW!!!! So much detail.... I will figure out what the church currently has, then determine what they need to get WiFi service to the areas that are lacking. I do know the sanctuary has good service, but the rest of the church is where I will figure out what is needed. 

 

I thank you so much for the time and information. 

[dalekphalm]

6 hours ago, Edward78 said:

dalekphalm If he gets PoE, he can just put a WAP in each room & hook it up to the PoE right?

Yes, if he gets a PoE switch, he can install the WAP and it gets power from the switch over the Ethernet cable. 

 

The only caveat is you need to make sure the Switch and the WAP both use the same

PoE specification. There are different specs that not every PoE switch can power. 

[NelizMastr]

6 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Yes, if he gets a PoE switch, he can install the WAP and it gets power from the switch over the Ethernet cable. 

 

The only caveat is you need to make sure the Switch and the WAP both use the same

PoE specification. There are different specs that not every PoE switch can power. 

And especially Ubiquiti gear can be exotic sometimes. That said, the cheapest PoE switch I could find made by TP-Link does an excellent job at my home.

[dalekphalm]

6 hours ago, NelizMastr said:

And especially Ubiquiti gear can be exotic sometimes. That said, the cheapest PoE switch I could find made by TP-Link does an excellent job at my home.

Unifi WAPs tend to use Passive 24V PoE - which a lot of PoE switches don’t support. That’s why I paired Ubiquiti switches with the WAPs. 

 

But yeah it can be a shit show. We upgraded WIFI at work and 2 locations were upgraded with WAPs that use passive PoE and none of those WAPs can be powered by our brand new PoE HP Aruba switches. We were goddamn pissed at the WIFI vendor once we realized. 

[NelizMastr]

15 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

But yeah it can be a shit show. We upgraded WIFI at work and 2 locations were upgraded with WAPs that use passive PoE and none of those WAPs can be powered by our brand new PoE HP Aruba switches. We were goddamn pissed at the WIFI vendor once we realized. 

Oof. They should've checked your infrastructure was in order rather than just shipping out the WAPs and calling it a day.

[dalekphalm]

5 hours ago, NelizMastr said:

Oof. They should've checked your infrastructure was in order rather than just shipping out the WAPs and calling it a day.

Well it was a chicken and the egg type situation. 

 

We knew we were going to be upgrading switches soon, but we had to upgrade wifi at 2 locations first before we put out the switch RFP. 

 

However, we were quite clear in the wifi RFP that they needed to be PoE 802.af compliant. They weren’t. But by the time we discovered that, over a year had passed since the WAPs were installed. Wasn’t worth fighting over - the wifi vendors ended up giving us these little 5-port passive PoE switches to keep (they had been a temp install with the knowledge that we were getting our own PoE switches and would use our own once they were installed). 

 

End result is we will likely never use that vendor again because of that mistake.