Walmart sues tesla for solar panel fires at 7 stores

[spartaman64]

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Walmart is suing Elon Musk’s electric vehicle and clean energy company after Tesla solar panels atop seven of the retailer’s stores allegedly caught fire, according a court filing.The Walmart suit alleges breach of contract, gross negligence and failure to live up to industry standards. Walmart is asking Tesla to remove solar panels from more than 240 Walmart locations where they have been installed, and to pay damages related to all the fires Walmart says that Tesla caused.

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The Walmart suit, filed in the state of New York, alleges that: “As of November 2018, no fewer than seven Walmart stores had experienced fires due to Tesla’s solar systems-including the four fires described above and three others that had occurred earlier.” The filing details evacuations, damaged property and inventory.

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Tesla has installed solar panels at more than 240 Walmart locations, but lawyers for the retailer write in the complaint that “the occurrence of multiple fires involving Tesla’s solar systems is but one unmistakable sign of negligence.” Walmart alleges in the suit that Tesla didn’t ground its systems properly, that the solar panels installed at Walmart sites were defective, and that Tesla didn’t keep proper documentation of the systems.

According to Walmart’s suit, the problems started with SolarCity before Tesla acquired the solar panel company in 2016. SolarCity had “adopted an ill-considered business model that required it to install solar panel systems haphazardly and as quickly as possible in order to turn a profit, and the contractors and subcontractors who performed the initial installation work had not been properly hired, trained, and supervised.”

Walmart claims that Tesla has failed to provide a complete set of “final ‘root cause’ analyses needed to identify the precise defects in its systems that caused all of the fires.”

“The number of defects, however, is overwhelming and plainly indicative of systemic, widespread failures by Tesla to meet the standard of care, as set forth in the governing contracts, as to the solar systems installed at Walmart’s stores,” lawyers for Walmart write.

Walmart says it “demanded” that Tesla disconnect all of its solar panels after three fires broke out in 2018 in Ohio, Maryland, and California. Tesla complied, according to the complaint, but Walmart says another fire broke out anyway at a second California store.

 

sources: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/20/walmart-sues-tesla-over-solar-panel-fires-at-seven-stores.html

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/20/20825566/walmart-tesla-solar-panel-fire-lawsuit-negligence

 

It sort of feels like Tesla is focusing on quantity rather than quality. I really like the technology in tesla cars but they are relatively poorly made as vehicles and seem to have serious quality control issues due to tesla rushing production and it seems like their solar panels have similar problems. Tesla needs to stop encouraging employees to ignore defects in order to produce more and get better customer service because a problem with not having enough stock is much better than developing a bad reputation in my opinion. Production volume problems can be solved and ramped up in the future while their reputation will stick around forever.

[The King of the Undead]

tesla the dumpster fire.

[nick name]

10 minutes ago, will4623 said:

tesla the dumpster fire.

Walmart the dumpster?

[The King of the Undead]

2 minutes ago, nick name said:

Walmart the dumpster?

yes! YES!

[Teddy07]

15 minutes ago, will4623 said:

tesla the dumpster fire.

Yes. I read recently an article about quality issues with their cars and now solar panels. 

[kpluck]

1 hour ago, Teddy07 said:

Yes. I read recently an article about quality issues with their cars and now solar panels. 

From what I have read, the problems were caused by Solar City installations (not the panels themselves) before Tesla bought them. Walmart's lawsuit seems to be saying Tesla has failed to identify and resolve the issues created by these poorly done Solar City installations.

 

I am guessing Tesla had no idea of the scope of the problem when they acquired Solar City and their financials are so precarious they simply couldn't afford to go over all the installations and fix the sub-standard work.

 

-kp

[TrigrH]

10 minutes ago, kpluck said:

From what I have read, the problems were caused by Solar City installations (not the panels themselves) before Tesla bought them. Walmart's lawsuit seems to be saying Tesla has failed to identify and resolve the issues created by these poorly done Solar City installations.

 

I am guessing Tesla had no idea of the scope of the problem when they acquired Solar City and their financials are so precarious they simply couldn't afford to go over all the installations and fix the sub-standard work.

Make sense but if you buy a dumpsterfire company its now your problem. Sometimes things are cheap for a reason.

[Flying Sausages]

Tesla cars are like American cars.

"What is quality and reliable?"

[DrMacintosh]

Doesn’t surprise me. Tesla is hurting financially. Corners are cut, accidents happen. 

 

This will probably kill their solar arm. 

[PlayStation 2]

25 minutes ago, OlympicAssEater said:

Tesla cars are like American cars.

"What is quality and reliable?"

The hint is to get a Chrysler, a Ford or a GM with a decent V8. Because we suck ass at making 4-cyls with hairdryers and non-V8 based V6 cars.

[Flying Sausages]

1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

The hint is to get a Chrysler, a Ford or a GM with a decent V8. Because we suck ass at making 4-cyls with hairdryers and non-V8 based V6 cars.

Oh lord, no

 

Tesla vehicles are not reliable at all, and you are telling me they should get an engine from unreliable company like Chrysler or GM. 

[PlayStation 2]

17 minutes ago, OlympicAssEater said:

Oh lord, no

 

Tesla vehicles are not reliable at all, and you are telling me they should get an engine from unreliable company like Chrysler or GM. 

I dunno what you’re smoking to call LSes, Hemis and Modulars unreliable.

[Flying Sausages]

Just now, Dan Castellaneta said:

I dunno what you’re smoking to call LSes, Hemis and Modulars unreliable.

https://www.nydailynews.com/autos/street-smarts/consumer-reports-10-unreliable-car-brands-article-1.2848900

 

https://www.motor1.com/features/175422/least-reliable-cars/2950478/

 

 

Chryslers and GM are unreliable. Chryslers cars are nothing but problems all the times. Don't get me start on GM when GM files bankruptcy multiple times. Corvette Z06 suffers overheating because GM engineer underestimate the engine heat output, but they blame the owner for this and this. They did come up with a temporary solution to fix it, but it is not a permanent solution. The permanent solution to fix overheating Z06 is to get a better 3rd party aftermarket radiator and cooling. 

[PlayStation 2]

25 minutes ago, OlympicAssEater said:

https://www.nydailynews.com/autos/street-smarts/consumer-reports-10-unreliable-car-brands-article-1.2848900

 

https://www.motor1.com/features/175422/least-reliable-cars/2950478/

 

Chryslers and GM are unreliable. Chryslers cars are nothing but problems all the times. Don't get me start on GM when GM files bankruptcy multiple times. Corvette Z06 suffers overheating because GM engineer underestimate the engine heat output, but they blame the owner for this and this. They did come up with a temporary solution to fix it, but it is not a permanent solution. The permanent solution to fix overheating Z06 is to get a better 3rd party aftermarket radiator and cooling. 

Ah yes, Scotty Kilmer, the guy who circlejerks the Toyota Celica but never drives his. Quality. Also notice that the Avenger, the Dart and the Chrysler 200 make the list with the Challenger and the Charger. What do all of those cars (except for the Dart) share? Not the Hemi, but rather, the Pentastar V6, which is NOT a Hemi. 

To make things even more funny, the NY Daily News article recommends the XTS. How are they gonna recommend one GM with the piece of shit 3.6L V6 while not recommending any others with that engine?

[Flying Sausages]

8 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Ah yes, Scotty Kilmer, the guy who circlejerks the Toyota Celica but never drives his. Quality. Also notice that the Avenger, the Dart and the Chrysler 200 make the list with the Challenger and the Charger. What do all of those cars (except for the Dart) share? Not the Hemi, but rather, the Pentastar V6, which is NOT a Hemi. 

To make things even more funny, the NY Daily News article recommends the XTS while simultaneously not recommending the XTS’s brother, the Terrain. How are they gonna recommend one GM with the piece of shit 3.6L V6 while not recommending another GM with it?

Maybe the piece of shit 3.6L V6 is decent in 7/10? Don't know. But for me, American cars are like Chinese techs will break down more than usable. You pay for performance but not reliability for America muscles cars which is why they are so cheap. 

 

[Blademaster91]

26 minutes ago, OlympicAssEater said:

https://www.nydailynews.com/autos/street-smarts/consumer-reports-10-unreliable-car-brands-article-1.2848900

 

https://www.motor1.com/features/175422/least-reliable-cars/2950478/

 

Chryslers and GM are unreliable. Chryslers cars are nothing but problems all the times. Don't get me start on GM when GM files bankruptcy multiple times. Corvette Z06 suffers overheating because GM engineer underestimate the engine heat output, but they blame the owner for this and this. They did come up with a temporary solution to fix it, but it is not a permanent solution. The permanent solution to fix overheating Z06 is to get a better 3rd party aftermarket radiator and cooling. 

The GM LS engines are quite reliable, there is a reason those V8's are some of the most used in engine swaps or for racing besides the fact they are cheap, it's a simple and reliable engine.

But Chrysler, yeah i wouldn't recommend buying anything except their trucks, too many electrical related problems and the rebadged Fiat vehicles are definitely a reliability concern.

On topic though, Tesla needs to address the problem and maybe dump the solar panel company they bought. Tesla has enough issues with their cars, I wouldn't buy one.

[Tsuki]

4 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Ah yes, Scotty Kilmer, the guy who circlejerks the Toyota Celica but never drives his.

scotty kilmer is a fucking moron who does nothing but spread misinformation.  i suggested actively seeking out his advise on something so that you can do the exact opposite of what he suggests.

[PlayStation 2]

11 minutes ago, OlympicAssEater said:

Maybe the piece of shit 3.6L V6 is decent in 7/10? Don't know. But for me, American cars are like Chinese techs will break down more than usable. You pay for performance but not reliability for America muscles cars which is why they are so cheap. 

If it’s worth any salt, I’ve been around a lot of Chryslers with the Hemis (a number of 5.7s, 6.1s and 6.4s) and they’ve never been big problem children from what I’ve seen. Build quality and electronics are another story (even then my dad’s never had issues with electronics but there were some build quality issues with our 2012 Jeep SRT) but the Hemis have largely been alright. 

Their smaller engines, though... they haven’t built a decent 4 cylinder since the Neon and the PT Cruiser.

[airdeano]

mmm this isnt a flamewar of automobile manufacturers, but what is the relationship to walmart and tesla.. stay on topic.

[justpoet]

As much as this is REALLY needed to smack Tesla upside the quality head…it'll be sad if it kills off a bunch of Tesla's solar side projects.  The roofing is pretty awesome, even if it is a pain to install with a million connections.  In a few iterations it'd be sweet to see where that went.

[LeSheen]

5 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Doesn’t surprise me. Tesla is hurting financially. Corners are cut, accidents happen. 

 

This will probably kill their solar arm. 

Did you even read the article? The installations are probably the cause, not the pannels.

These have been installed before tesla owned the company.

[leadeater]

Solar panel fires in large string tried installations aren't exactly common but neither is it that uncommon either, it's one of the big reasons I went with micro-inverters. High voltage DC even with all the correct installation and safety procedures is still incredibly dangerous.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

The hint is to get a Chrysler, a Ford or a GM with a decent V8. Because we suck ass at making 4-cyls with hairdryers and non-V8 based V6 cars.

the fords here have a Turkish 5c engine and are assembled in Europe 

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, LeSheen said:

Did you even read the article? The installations are probably the cause, not the pannels.

These have been installed before tesla owned the company.

SolarCity and Tesla were never really that separate. Musk was a driving force for the creation of the company and the Chairman. While they are different companies producing different products they were run under the same ethos as each other, not specifically a bad thing. People just like to jump on Tesla for issues and there is a lot of lobby money pushing those stories forward making them gain traction in the media and the public. There isn't a car manufacturer, or any product manufacture, in existence that hasn't had numerous issues big and small. What is a first is a company getting majority blame for operator error instead of the idiot in control not following proper operating procedures, not everything is operator error of course but in relation to Tesla almost all have been.

[GoodBytes]

Well it is not Tesla... it is SolarCity who miss installed them, as the article mentions. Tesla now own the startup company SolarCity... it is not by magic that now a company that owns another everything already done is now proper. SolarCity clearly cut corners, and as a typical startup, you have 0 documentation as everything is rushed R&D as you are limited in funds. 

 

Tesla is now stuck in this situation, where it knows nothing about the actual installation procedure that took place, can't do any evaluations after the fire as they have 0 doc essentially and probably each case is different, as things were done properly at all, hence the fires.

 

Anyways, I see this ending in a settlement, where Tesla will start verifying the installation deeply at every Walmart location, and correct the issues. Maybe some money will be transferred from Tesla to Walmart for compensations... but I doubt it will end with Tesla having to remove every panel.

 

Walmart took a high risk working with a startup and sadly, many times, when working with startups, things don't go well (common issues when working with startups are: numerous delays and/or buggy product and/or the startup cease operation due to lack of funding or mismanagement). Probably Walmart expected issues, even fires, but probably not 7 fires. So it is understandable Walmart frustration. But in general working with startup is all about low cost, but high risk.

 

Please note that startup doesn't necessarily mean a few people working in a garage or something. It can be a company with it own facilities and a number of employees. Startup has tenderness to get every dime of investment, and put it in R&D, focus on innovation and fast reacting, to end up with a or series of products that makes them stand (significantly,  ideally) apart from the competition. There is no time or money on documentation, in depth safety testing, well thaught out design architecture, and so on. It is all trial and error, quick patch everywhere, and "we will deal with this issue properly later" attitude.