Budget rig for a friend

[Yasin40]

Hi guys

I'm planning a new build for a friend, but his budget is really really small

Under a €100 (his family isn't very rich and he's saving up for his driving licence) 

There's a really nice 2nd hand shop near me and a guy I know who works there can hook me up with either an i7 860 with a board for €15 or an i5 2400 full system with 4GB RAM for €60

I have a 460W PSU from on older HP machine with a 6 pin connector and a case and 4GB DDR3 laying around, and we can get 4 more GB for €5. I don't know what PSU the other system has but it should be fine and I have the other one for him anyway. 

So what would be better?  An i5 2400 for €65 or an i7 860 for €20? 

And how fast of a graphics card should I get for him? I thought of r9 280X or 7970 but those require lots of power. Would an old 460W from Delta be able to power those and a HDD? Or should I get a GTX960? Will that be fast enough for eSports titles and such in the coming 2 years or so? Will the VRAM be a big issue? Or do you have any other GPU suggestions? 

Sorry for the long post but I want my friend to have the best rig he can for the little money he has. 

Thanks for your advice

[Epimetheus]

I think the i7 860 is slightly better in performance than the i5 2400, but then you'd have to get everything else, so it depends for how much you could get the other components. If you can get a full system with the i7 for less than the i5 go for it, if it ends up costing more then get the i5. Obviously get 8gb of ddr3, you can't do anything. 

The 960 is still a 1050-level graphics card, and should still be pretty good for esports titles (they always have very low requirements). For the vram limitation i don't think 2gb will be holding you back in esport titles, but will certainly hold you back if you try to do some low settings AAA gaming. If it still fits in your budget get the 4gb version

[Epimetheus]

Sorry i didn't read that you already had a case and 4gb of ddr3, if that's the case i think an i7 860 system will end up costing you much less, giving you more headroom for the gpu

[5x5]

2 minutes ago, Epimetheus said:

Sorry i didn't read that you already had a case and 4gb of ddr3, if that's the case i think an i7 860 system will end up costing you much less, giving you more headroom for the gpu

No, it will not. The i7 870 is a much much slower CPU than the i5 2400. Both use DDR3 so that's irrelevant. The jump from Nahalem to Sandy was massive. Buying a 1st gen i7 over a second gen i5 is like buying a pentium over an i7 currently. Just don't.

[Epimetheus]

Just now, 5x5 said:

No, it will not. The i7 870 is a much much slower CPU than the i5 2400. Both use DDR3 so that's irrelevant. The jump from Nahalem to Sandy was massive. Buying a 1st gen i7 over a second gen i5 is like buying a pentium over an i7 currently. Just don't.

except it isn't the same at all. They should perform roughly the same, but i would avoid a non hyperthreaded quad core if possible

[5x5]

Just now, Epimetheus said:

except it isn't the same at all. They should perform roughly the same, but i would avoid a non hyperthreaded quad core if possible

You realize that sandy has about 25-30% better single core performance while running cooler, using less power and also being capable of higher memory frequencies, right? The i7 870 is ancient. It's as slow as an FX4350

[Yasin40]

2 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

You realize that sandy has about 25-30% better single core performance while running cooler, using less power and also being capable of higher memory frequencies, right? The i7 870 is ancient. It's as slow as an FX4350

Is there really that big of a difference? I wouldn't have guessed that in 2 generations from an i7 to an i5

[5x5]

1 minute ago, Yasin40 said:

Is there really that big of a difference? I wouldn't have guessed that in 2 generations from an i7 to an i5

It's the only time in core i history that we had a massive jump akin to the old days where new CPUs being two times faster was normal. Google some benches of the CPUs in 2018 or 2019. You'll see.

[Akira Shimazu]

 i5 2nd gen with full build and 4GB ddr3 is nice tho. and 1st gen i7 really sucks and outdates ancient.  so go get the i5

and since you are really on a tight budget. why don't you go with 2nd hand RX560 or 1050?. 

vram for esport isnt issue yet. 4GB is reccomend but 2GB is also enough dont force budget. i still playing with gt650m 2gb and it works fine.

your PSU 460W is more than enough for that kind of system.

[5x5]

Just now, Epimetheus said:

oh, thanks bud. I sure like people acting like others are stupid and then acting like they're angels. And yeah, the reviews are from 2011, big deal. Do what you want

Read up on a trial performance metrics and how memory speed affects modern applications. Spoiler, it does. Also, look up on how the patches have cripples hyperthreading on most intel CPUs. We've seen a solid 10% loss in HT performance from what? 6 patches now. The 870 has not aged as well.

[Epimetheus]

i'm saying that based on the fact that people trying out first generation i7's are getting pretty good results for a 10 year old processor and the fact that that i guess 30 dollar gap could be spent on a better gpu. It's like saying go for an i7 with a gtx 1050 rather than go for an i5 with a 1070

[Epimetheus]

2 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Read up on a trial performance metrics and how memory speed affects modern applications. Spoiler, it does. Also, look up on how the patches have cripples hyperthreading on most intel CPUs. We've seen a solid 10% loss in HT performance from what? 6 patches now. The 870 has not aged as well.

well, from what i see an i9 9900k still doesn't perform as a 9700k, so hyperthreading isn't worth nothing. Is getting an i5 for more worth getting a 40 dollar gpu? Gpu's grow older much quicker and you can't get anything for that little

[5x5]

1 minute ago, Epimetheus said:

i'm saying that based on the fact that people trying out first generation i7's are getting pretty good results for a 10 year old processor and the fact that that i guess 30 dollar gap could be spent on a better gpu. It's like saying go for an i7 with a gtx 1050 rather than go for an i5 with a 1070

No, not really. The low IPC and low ckockspeed of the i7 means it will stutter in older 2015-2016 games and be worse yet in modern games because it has horrid cache speeds, latencies and performance. Hyperthreading is not magic. It's just a feature that has gotten progressively worse in recent times. An i7 and 1050 to in this case would be slowe than th i5 2400 and a 1050 non ti.

[GoldenLag]

Get a 2nd gen system

 

Get another 4gb stick of Ram

 

Get a decent used PSU, like a VS grey for nothing. Then spend the rest on a hd 7850.

[5x5]

Just now, Epimetheus said:

well, from what i see an i9 9900k still doesn't perform as a 9700k, so hyperthreading isn't worth nothing. Is getting an i5 for more worth getting a 40 dollar gpu? Gpu's grow older much quicker and you can't get anything for that little

Actually, you can. It's pretty evident you're fairly young and new to hardware but 750 Ti cards go for super cheap and outperform some lower end passive 1050s. He could even find a 760 if he's lucky or a 660 Ti. And the 9700K is an 8-core part, not a Quad-Core. Comparison is moot.

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, Epimetheus said:

so hyperthreading isn't worth nothing

HT is worth something, but when it comes to 1st gen to 2nd gen. Getting 2nd gen at the cost of HT is very much worth it. 

[Epimetheus]

Just now, 5x5 said:

Actually, you can. It's pretty evident you're fairly young and new to hardware but 750 Ti cards go for super cheap and outperform some lower end passive 1050s. He could even find a 760 if he's lucky or a 660 Ti. And the 9700K is an 8-core part, not a Quad-Core. Comparison is moot.

Now that's what i was talking about. Acting like that and expecting people not to get angry at you? 

Let me redo the comparison, does an i5 7600k perform the same as an i7 7700k as of now?

[5x5]

Just now, Epimetheus said:

Now that's what i was talking about. Acting like that and expecting people not to get angry at you? 

Let me redo the comparison, does an i5 7600k perform the same as an i7 7700k as of now?

No, but it does outscore an i7 3770k wher the IPC gap is similar. Congratulations, you proved yourself wrong.

[Epimetheus]

3 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

HT is worth something, but when it comes to 1st gen to 2nd gen. Getting 2nd gen at the cost of HT is very much worth it. 

We should see what gpu he could get in the used market for the two different budgets and then consider

[5x5]

1 minute ago, Epimetheus said:

We should see what gpu he could get in the used market for the two different budgets and then consider

Not really, you're the only person recommend ING the slower base system. Everyone else is doing the correct thing an suggest a newer platform with an actual upgrade path to an i7 2600 later.

[Epimetheus]

2 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

No, but it does outscore an i7 3770k wher the IPC gap is similar. Congratulations, you proved yourself wrong.

Well, instead i see that my point is valid. If as you said the ipc gap between ivy bridge and kaby lake (which is basically the same as skylake) is the same between nehalem and sandy bridge, and both the i5 6600k and 3770k have the same core counts as what we're talking about, then why does the i5 6600k perform the same as the i7 3770k?

[Epimetheus]

3 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Not really, you're the only person recommend ING the slower base system. Everyone else is doing the correct thing an suggest a newer platform with an actual upgrade path to an i7 2600 later.

i'm not recommending one over the other over cpu performance alone, but i think the gpu would make more difference that the cpu alone. And upgrade path? This guy is asking for a 100 dollar pc, by the time he considers upgrading the i7 2600 will be a relic of the past

[5x5]

1 minute ago, Epimetheus said:

Well, instead i see that my point is valid. If as you said the ipc gap between ivy bridge and kaby lake (which is basically the same as skylake) is the same between nehalem and sandy bridge, and both the i5 6600k and 3770k have the same core counts as what we're talking about, then why does the i5 6600k perform the same as the i7 3770k?

Because the i5 6600K has faster cores and a good 20% IPC advantage due to it being 3 gens newer.

 

 

[Epimetheus]

Just now, 5x5 said:

Because the i5 6600K has faster cores and a good 20% IPC advantage due to it being 3 gens newer.

 

 

and what could you get out of this?

[5x5]

Just now, Epimetheus said:

i'm not recommending one over the other over cpu performance alone, but i think the gpu would make more difference that the cpu alone. And upgrade path? This guy is asking for a 100 dollar pc, by the time he considers upgrading the i7 2600 will be a relic of the past

Because any GPU paired with the 870 with the saved money will be bottlen coed into oblivion? Might as well get a Phenom II then