Microsoft Office 365: Banned in German schools over privacy fears / banned also from the Government in the Netherlands

[Guest]

Full article: Microsoft Office 365: Banned in German schools over privacy fears

 

Well THIS here is exactly what I have a problem with in the country I live in. My daughter is in junior high, she received an iPad at the beginning of the year (which I rent, but not for much), of course it is not mandatory, oh no!
BUT !!! And it's a biiiiig "BUT!", as the school doesn't provide them with books, as they use mainly digital material for learning, the students NEED the iPad as only the iPads provided by the school are authorized to connect on the school network. They also use the iPads to type they papers, homeworks, etc.

 

So... It's an iPad, with the Microsoft eco-system installed on it. You can't use an USB/Lightning key on it, you must connect to the school network to download the files if you need to print, transfer, or whatever. So you need also to instal the eco-system on your computer.

 

It's all monitored. The teachers, the IT guys and the high-school Adminstration can see what the students are browsing, when they are working on their papers, what they use, etc.

I know that because during a meeting with the class tutor, I've been told "But we see that xxxx has been working on this paper until 11:30pm on that day and we know that she (or you...) have been really working and that she didn't forget to close it, as we checked the different versions other 2 hours and there were significant changes... WE think that is was you because the amount of changes (amount of words typed) don't seem relevant with a 12yo student and the vocabulary used is not typical of a 12yo!". So yes, I've been more or less accused of doing my daughter's papers.

My answer to her: I opened my laptop, opened LibreOffice, had my daughter type what I dictated for 3 minutes and then showed it to the teacher and said: "You were saying? Do you want to dictate something to her yourself so that we can't on top of it be accused of "rehersing" this?" Yes, my daughter knows at to type on a keyboard quite efficiently.

Then I asked her to explain to me what some "complex" words/notion mean...

 

I KNOW (friends working for the Ministry of Education, blablabla) that this usage is also monitored by the Ministry for statistics, etc. Statistics which are not public.

I KNOW (friends working at Microsoft Europe, blablabla) that the usage of the Microsoft eco-system is also not "monitored" but used by M$ for their own statistics, etc.

I GUESS (but don't "know") that Apple does the same with the usage of their iPads in schools (it's always good to have some numbers when the sales guys are meeting with possible customers, isn't it? )

 

And THAT really gives me the chills. We're talking about kids here... IMO they should be taught about the different systems, brands, applications on a system which is not already user-philosophically branded. Something neutral! Not M$, not Apple!

I have the possibility to teach her something different, (Linux, LibreOffice, Krita, etc.), but, I don't kid myself, social pressure is here, pushing her in one way or the other.

 

I tried to express my concern to the IT guy of my daughter's high-school when she received her iPad. The only answer I received: "Well... IF it's really such a problem for you, you should have the courage to refuse the iPad!"

I was O_o "Have you even listened to or processed what I just said?"

 

What do YOU think about such a situation? And I'm not talking about the "accusation", this has been solved and I did express my... dismay and uncomprehension of such monitoring...

 

 

Oh! By the way, Microsoft Office is also now banned from the Netherlands Government Administration regarding the same problem of privacy, etc. The news just popped up!

--> The Netherlands bans Microsoft’s mobile Office apps as non-GDPR compliant

--> Netherlands warns government employees not to use Microsoft's online Office apps

--> Netherlands' government: Staff shouldn't use Office due to privacy problems over telemetry

[AHaskin14]

Didn't rad the article but very much enjoyed your story. Very interesting. As avid of a computer use as I am, I'm glad I left high school ('14) at a time when stuff like that wasn't completely phased in,

[givingtnt]

4 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

Full article: Microsoft Office 365: Banned in German schools over privacy fears

 

isin't this.. half a month old ?
wait yes it is..

and it was covered already.. like 2 weeks ago ?
 

[Guest]

Just now, givingtnt said:

isin't this.. half a month old ?
wait yes it is..

and it was covered already.. like 2 weeks ago

Did you read the last sentence? and the rest?

[givingtnt]

1 minute ago, Cora_Lie said:

Did you read the last sentence? and the rest?

ya gotta link the right source then..
and quote it..
ya know. like in the guidelines

The source you posted is from the 12th of july

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, givingtnt said:

ya gotta link the right source then..
and quote it..
ya know. like in the guidelines

The source you posted is from the 12th of july

Good enough now? ^o^

 

As for "quoting" I think that my whole post is quote enough regarding "privacy problem", won't you think?

Edited August 2, 2019 by Guest
Added "quote" part

[jagdtigger]

30 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

t's all monitored. The teachers, the IT guys and the high-school Adminstration can see what the students are browsing, when they are working on their papers, what they use, etc.

This isnt monitoring, but evesdropping which is pretty much illegal AFAIK

[Guest]

I depends how you define "monitoring". Kids, underage, system used for the school, on a school network, etc.

You don't need to actively check each one of them. You simply need to define criterias and alerts on any "behavior" which is out of the defined "normal" usage.

[givingtnt]

1 hour ago, Cora_Lie said:

Good enough now? ^o^

 

As for "quoting" I think that my whole post is quote enough regarding "privacy problem", won't you think?

Yeah, but you need to use the quote tags !

 

Otherwise how do people know ?

But thanks for fixing it !

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, Cora_Lie said:

I depends how you define "monitoring". Kids, underage, system used for the school, on a school network, etc.

You don't need to actively check each one of them. You simply need to define criterias and alerts on any "behavior" which is out of the defined "normal" usage.

Problem is they are logging every last bit of usage and it seems teachers are free to access to that info. It goes way beyond what you described. Plus they are basically forcing parents into this.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Problem is they are logging every last bit of usage and it seems teachers are free to access to that info. It goes way beyond what you described. Plus they are basically forcing parents into this.

Hey... I do agree with you! ^o^   I^m totally against this way of doing things... As long as parents won't say a thing about it... My "Don Quixote" time is long gone.

[EldritchMoose]

17 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Problem is they are logging every last bit of usage and it seems teachers are free to access to that info. It goes way beyond what you described. Plus they are basically forcing parents into this.

Not just this, they've already gone so far as to draw their own conclusions from it and accused you of committing fraud by doing your daughter's work for her. Not to get on a slippery slope, but knowing what my classmates' search histories looked like back in high school (the glory days of rotten.com and goatse) and I can see several ways this could escalate very poorly for everyone involved.

 

Besides, if this was really optional, I'm not seeing the school provide any alternatives based on your post.

[Guest]

Well, they do have some school books which are kept in the classroom , for maths and science, plus some dictionnaries, but not enough to have one per student and they must stay in the classroom. And from what my daughter told me, they are seldom used.

There are also a few at the school library which you can borrow, with a time limit of 2 weeks.

 

All the other sources are available through the iPad.

[Adrian Codreanu]

I understand the logic to modernize the school systems and children IMHO should be taught to work with different devices and environments, but right now there's privacy issues all around, and until they are solved, children are especially susceptible to online dangers. Just my opinion

[greenhorn]

Thank you for sharing your story, this type of monitoring is outrageous. And then some teachers (ab)using that data to accuse you/your daughter like you were accused of committing a crime...

I cannot believe this practice doesn't violate at least a couple of privacy laws (at least in Europe). Just imagine what happens to kids whose parents don't raise concerns like you do: some of them will likely get used to that level of monitoring and grossly insufficient privacy, which is something that really gives me the creeps.

[suicidalfranco]

9 hours ago, Cora_Lie said:

It's all monitored. The teachers, the IT guys and the high-school Adminstration can see what the students are browsing, when they are working on their papers, what they use, etc.

at that point just go back to pen book and paper. Not worth the trade

[jagdtigger]

8 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

at that point just go back to pen book and paper. Not worth the trade

 

18 hours ago, Cora_Lie said:

as the school doesn't provide them with books, as they use mainly digital material for learning, the students NEED the iPad as only the iPads provided by the school are authorized to connect on the school network. They also use the iPads to type they papers, homeworks, etc.

 

So its not mandatory but a catch 22....

[thorhammerz]

20 hours ago, Cora_Lie said:

IMO they should be taught about the different systems, brands, applications on a system which is not already user-philosophically branded. Something neutral! Not M$, not Apple!

Given the opportunity, the system would prefer loyal (blindly so) worker bees over those who can think for themselves.

 

Great for any company if they can manage to "pre-install" a preference / habit for their products and services in the process .

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, thorhammerz said:

Given the opportunity, the system would prefer loyal (blindly so) worker bees over those who can think for themselves.

 

Great for any company if they can manage to "pre-install" a preference / habit for their products and services in the process .

You're preaching to someone already converted...

[iamdarkyoshi]

Microshaft's audacity to track you, sell the data to advertisers, and serve ads in your face within the OS... which costs TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS... I'm just done with it. Linux to get stuff done, and neutered microspy to do the stuff linux can't yet...

 

Its time for the personal computer to become personal again.

[Doobeedoo]

Really dislike subscription based software.. 

[JZStudios]

Some serious Big Brother vibes. I'd try to stay off the iPad as much as possible and get in contact with other parents to try and make a big stink about it. I don't why or how we went... well I guess you're not American but it's happening here too, from World War 2 and then the Cold War valuing our privacy greatly to just willfully giving it away.

I get disgusted when I use Google Maps on my phone to look up an address which auto enables GPS tracking and then my phone notifies me to rate the restaurant I was in. Not that I use Siri or Google whatever, but add in the GPS tracking and the evidenced constant audio recording...

If we don't get some major privacy laws soon it's dark times ahead. I don't know if it's worse that all this information is going to big companies rather than the government, but I have no doubt that it's actually going to both. And then you add in government institutions targeting people of "opposing" political sides...

[Guest]

2 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Some serious Big Brother vibes. I'd try to stay off the iPad as much as possible and get in contact with other parents to try and make a big stink about it. I don't why or how we went... well I guess you're not American but it's happening here too, from World War 2 and then the Cold War valuing our privacy greatly to just willfully giving it away.

I'm trying to teach her to stay out of it as much as possible (luckily I control the WIFI at home ) but as I said in my first post, social pressure (friends, etc.) and the fact that the high-school is NOT teaching them the first thing about how to use it "safely" is a big part of the problem. I'm her Mom and she's a young budding teenager, now with quite the temperament (the good ol'story of the apple and the tree, if you see what I mean... ^o^ ).

Plus she has a "secure" laptop available at home to use when she needs it.

As for why it has changed? Well... It's called "grooming": We had this subject discussed on another thread already.

 

2 hours ago, JZStudios said:

I get disgusted when I use Google Maps on my phone to look up an address which auto enables GPS tracking and then my phone notifies me to rate the restaurant I was in. Not that I use Siri or Google whatever, but add in the GPS tracking and the evidenced constant audio recording...

This is something you can configure normally in your settings. I know that on my Phablet I configured it to NOT share my WIFI or GPS position. It asks me to do it each time I switch it on, but I always say "no".

But well, I'm also one of these ludites who switch off the services that I don't use on my Phablet. I don't have my Data always on, nor my BT, neither my GPS, etc.

 

2 hours ago, JZStudios said:

If we don't get some major privacy laws soon it's dark times ahead. I don't know if it's worse that all this information is going to big companies rather than the government, but I have no doubt that it's actually going to both. And then you add in government institutions targeting people of "opposing" political sides...

Well... When you see the kind of government you have in the US, it won't change anytime soon. And when you see the path followed by other governments, It's going to be interesting times to witness in the near future...

[jagdtigger]

20 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

luckily I control the WIFI at home

Then let that spy onto it and setup a PC with a name that will surely boil the blood of those douche bags...   (i usually do the same when setting up spy10 on a new machine so that i can activate it then upgrade to linux afterwards)

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Then let that spy onto it and setup a PC with a name that will surely boil the blood of those douche bags...   (i usually do the same when setting up spy10 on a new machine so that i can activate it then upgrade to linux afterwards)

It was a pun... Of course I control WIFI at home... My way of doing things is simpler : OFF for the iPad... NOT on my Network...