What could be next for AMD after the massive success of Ryzen 3000?

[WallacEngineering]

So we all know that AMD's Ryzen 3000 launch was about as successful as anyone could ever realistically expect. It was amazing and AMD completely shook up the entire Desktop CPU industry for consumers.

 

As JaysTwoCents recently said, 2019 is certainly the best year ever for PC enthusiasts. You can now get more value for your money than ever before.

 

Ryzen 3000 shows us that AMD's IPC is now superior to Intel thanks to AMD now matching or even beating Intel in Single-Thread performance, despite much lower clock speeds.

 

With Ryzen 3000 being such a game changer, I can't AMD needing to really aim for such a big showing next year, and I am pretty sure that they won't.

 

AMD's own roadmap shows that 2020's scheduled release is going to be "Zen 2+", which is supposed to be a simple optimization of the 7nm process, becoming "7nm+". However, I am still choosing to wait for it for a reason.

 

The only slight dissapointment I have with Ryzen 3000 is the slightly dissapointing clock speeds and overclocking ability. Im sure most enthusiasts feel the same way.

 

This makes me feel AMD will focus on a simple 1-3% IPC buff with their main focus probably being on clock speeds and overclocking ability, because it is what would make the most sense.

 

Imhoping that AMD will push for 4.5GHz All-Core or 4.8+GHz Single-Core speed rather than efficiency/lower TDP as 105W is already incredible as is for a 12 Core/24 Thread chip.

 

What are your thoughts on possibilities for Ryzen 4000? What are you hoping for?

[spartaman64]

in some games like bdo there is performance loss from the game having to hop over the infinity fabric and you have to disable cores or change windows load settings i hope they either reduce the latency penalty from infinity fabric or manage processes in a way to minimize using the infinity fabric for ones that will get a significant performance hit

[Turtle Rig]

7 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

in some games like bdo there is performance loss from the game having to hop over the infinity fabric and you have to disable cores or change windows load settings i hope they either reduce the latency penalty from infinity fabric or manage processes in a way to minimize using the infinity fabric for ones that will get a significant performance hit

What is next is the i10 series of processors which will pown AMD single core performance and what not.  Their HEDT will pown 3900x and their CPU server line will crush AMD to pieces.  AMD just got out of the gates faster, but believe me Intel has something up their sleeves IMO and what not.

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, Turtle Rig said:

What is next is the i10 series of processors which will pown AMD single core performance and what not.  Their HEDT will pown 3900x and their CPU server line will crush AMD to pieces.  AMD just got out of the gates faster, but believe me Intel has something up their sleeves IMO and what not.

imo until intel switches to a chiplet based design their hedt cannot compete with amd's threadripper. as much as infinity fabric can be a hindrance to single threaded applications monolithic dies manufacturing just cant scale to higher core counts because the yields would be absolutely abysmal 

[RobFRaschke]

I know we're in the CPU section, but next is actually big Navi. Maybe even dual Navi, but I just don't know if AMD has the testicular fortitude for that presently. Big Navi is going to be pretty good though, I'm looking forward to it.

[paulmohr]

On the overclocking and clock speed thing they have pretty much said what is going on. The cpus are already running about as good as they can out of the box, so there isn't much room for overclocking. They thought it would better to give the average consumer that performance upfront instead of hiding it so "enthusiests" could get it by overclocking. Which I think was a great thing for them to do. I always thought it was kind of shady for someone to release something underclocked but give a hint at what it might do. Then if it doesn't do it they can say "Well we didn't didn't say it WOULD do that, we said it MIGHT do that. And now you have voided your waranty by trying it.". AMD is saying, "Here it is, we got about as much out of as we could. You can try for more but don't be shocked if the results are not impressive.".

 

On over all clock speed I think they said it is getting to the point where they can get similar performance with lower clock speeds and be more effiecient. Sometimes with tech you hit a wall on what you can do with certain stuff so you need to find a different way to make it better.

 

I think what they do next will be threadripper and focusing on improving large core count performance. Maybe work on server or enterprise type stuff. I think that would hit intel where it hurts more so than with desktop pc stuff.

 

And you never know, intel might pull something out of their butts and impress everyone too. For all we know they have been just sitting on something waiting for AMD to catch up. Its been known to happen. Normally these companies are far ahead of what they are releasing because they make more money trickling in the tech bit by bit instead of making huge jumps. Only time will tell I guess.

 

Like with what nvidia did. If don't think they already had the "super" cards when they released the the 20 series I can assure you that your wrong. There just wasn't enough time between the releases for that to be the case. They knew what they had coming. They might not have been producing it yet, but they knew they had it.

[r2724r16]

30 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

What is next is the i10 series of processors which will pown AMD single core performance and what not.  Their HEDT will pown 3900x and their CPU server line will crush AMD to pieces.  AMD just got out of the gates faster, but believe me Intel has something up their sleeves IMO and what not.

No need for fanboyism.

 

I've noticed that you love writing short paragraphs to answer people's questions, but 90% of your replies mean absolutely nothing. You have no idea what you're talking about. You quoted someone who was actually trying to answer the OP's question (and was doing a good job at it) and you said some random crap that makes no sense. Rather than commenting on every single thread you see, why not comment on the ones that you actually know something about (basically none of them). Stop stating your opinion as if it's a fact (what's the i10 series?!). I know that this thread requires people to give their opinion(s), but at least back it up with something. Thanks.

[Hunter-97-G]

Next up is Zen 3, which is supposed to shake up the architecture even further. Intel's in deep.

[asand1]

AMD reminds me of  Tai Yong Medical. They are the underdog, making close to the same same product at a lower cost with more volume. I think it's natural for them to move into bio augmentations and full on cyborg bodies. And anti-gravity.

[CPUguy101]

6 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

So we all know that AMD's Ryzen 3000 launch was about as successful as anyone could ever realistically expect. It was amazing and AMD completely shook up the entire Desktop CPU industry for consumers.

 

As JaysTwoCents recently said, 2019 is certainly the best year ever for PC enthusiasts. You can now get more value for your money than ever before.

 

Ryzen 3000 shows us that AMD's IPC is now superior to Intel thanks to AMD now matching or even beating Intel in Single-Thread performance, despite much lower clock speeds.

 

With Ryzen 3000 being such a game changer, I can't AMD needing to really aim for such a big showing next year, and I am pretty sure that they won't.

 

AMD's own roadmap shows that 2020's scheduled release is going to be "Zen 2+", which is supposed to be a simple optimization of the 7nm process, becoming "7nm+". However, I am still choosing to wait for it for a reason.

 

The only slight dissapointment I have with Ryzen 3000 is the slightly dissapointing clock speeds and overclocking ability. Im sure most enthusiasts feel the same way.

 

This makes me feel AMD will focus on a simple 1-3% IPC buff with their main focus probably being on clock speeds and overclocking ability, because it is what would make the most sense.

 

Imhoping that AMD will push for 4.5GHz All-Core or 4.8+GHz Single-Core speed rather than efficiency/lower TDP as 105W is already incredible as is for a 12 Core/24 Thread chip.

 

What are your thoughts on possibilities for Ryzen 4000? What are you hoping for?

Amd will have to keep improving things Intel has now improved IPC again by 18% with icelake and sure we all know Intel will have issues hitting 5ghz with 10nm and beyond but they are improving IPC too meaning Amd can't set still. Luckily they aren't even thinking about setting still Zen 3 and beyond is being made. 

 

 

I could EASILY tell you that Amd has a lot of headroom left to improve latency and therefor improve IPC. As a owner of a 3700x+X370 i'm very happy what Amd has achived but don't think for a second that things can't be further improved. 

 

Now talking about next year i doubt Intel will release ice lake in 2020 on desktops so it remains irreverent to most of us so Amd can probably just focus on improving yields while they continue to make Zen 3 for 2021 but according to Amd Zen 3 is still scheduled for 2020!

 

This is what happens when you put a engineer in charge of a CPU company they don't focus on profits only you can see Lisa Su face when she talks she truly loves engineering and i respect that a lot.  

[CPUguy101]

https://wccftech.com/intel-desktop-mobile-cpu-roadmap-leak-14nm-comet-lake-10nm-ice-lake-tiger-lake/

 

2022? WTF Zen 4 or Zen 5 will be out by then maybe Intel's solution is to hope that Amd sets still while they improve things telling you guys this is over Intel not being able to hit higher frequency's so they are simply waiting for yields to improve. 

[WallacEngineering]

Oh yea guys I agree with most of what's been said here, I suppose I should have been specifically referencing whats next for Ryzen, not really ThreadRipper or Epic. But hey lots of info provided although I was aware of most of it already, sorry .

 

Hey @SMBGUY, If Zen 3 is indeed slotted for 2020, that would be awesome but Im not sure how they are supposed to pull that off with needing to launch Ryzen 4000 as well.

 

Is Zen 3 supposed to be 5nm or smaller? I would like to know how AMD is dealing with the silicon limitation problem.

[Mister Woof]

Go to Disneyland, obviously.

[CPUguy101]

On 8/2/2019 at 1:59 AM, WallacEngineering said:

Oh yea guys I agree with most of what's been said here, I suppose I should have been specifically referencing whats next for Ryzen, not really ThreadRipper or Epic. But hey lots of info provided although I was aware of most of it already, sorry .

 

Hey @SMBGUY, If Zen 3 is indeed slotted for 2020, that would be awesome but Im not sure how they are supposed to pull that off with needing to launch Ryzen 4000 as well.

 

Is Zen 3 supposed to be 5nm or smaller? I would like to know how AMD is dealing with the silicon limitation problem.

Zen 3 will be based off of 7nm TSMC and it should come out in 2020. 

 

Amd so far is doing a great job every year with new releases. I myself went from 1700>2700X>3700X just for the fun of it as i love testing newer hardware and comparing benchmarks and stuff and of course i play games that use only a few cores to the limit 

[WallacEngineering]

18 hours ago, SMBGUY said:

Zen 3 will be based off of 7nm TSMC and it should come out in 2020. 

 

Amd so far is doing a great job every year with new releases. I myself went from 1700>2700X>3700X just for the fun of it as i love testing newer hardware and comparing benchmarks and stuff and of course i play games that use only a few cores to the limit 

Thats actually pretty strange considering Ryzen 3000/Zen 2 is already based on 7nm TSMC. That makes me wonder if socket AM5 will be a physically larger socket to allow for either more cores or rather, probably faster and more powerful cores, since 16 Cores on a mainstream desktop CPU is already rediculous overkill. Maybe they will make one more push up to 20 core max on mainstream CPUs in the next few years.

 

Either way, from here, AMD's MAIN focus should be on Clock Speeds, then IPC, then PCIE 4.0 optimization, then Heat Control, then Core Count, then Efficiency. 

 

Im still on a R5 1600X, but Im considering an R5 3600 come Black Friday for a small form factor/portable gaming-focused build. Im a truck driver and Im kinda sick of having nothing to do most of my week every week.

 

The idea will be to avoid moving parts wherever possible because the truck is constantly moving - team drivers - so we never stop and the build will have to cope with constant vibrations and bumps.

[tech.guru]

On 8/1/2019 at 6:11 PM, WallacEngineering said:

So we all know that AMD's Ryzen 3000 launch was about as successful as anyone could ever realistically expect. It was amazing and AMD completely shook up the entire Desktop CPU industry for consumers.

 

As JaysTwoCents recently said, 2019 is certainly the best year ever for PC enthusiasts. You can now get more value for your money than ever before.

 

Ryzen 3000 shows us that AMD's IPC is now superior to Intel thanks to AMD now matching or even beating Intel in Single-Thread performance, despite much lower clock speeds.

 

With Ryzen 3000 being such a game changer, I can't AMD needing to really aim for such a big showing next year, and I am pretty sure that they won't.

 

AMD's own roadmap shows that 2020's scheduled release is going to be "Zen 2+", which is supposed to be a simple optimization of the 7nm process, becoming "7nm+". However, I am still choosing to wait for it for a reason.

 

The only slight dissapointment I have with Ryzen 3000 is the slightly dissapointing clock speeds and overclocking ability. Im sure most enthusiasts feel the same way.

 

This makes me feel AMD will focus on a simple 1-3% IPC buff with their main focus probably being on clock speeds and overclocking ability, because it is what would make the most sense.

 

Imhoping that AMD will push for 4.5GHz All-Core or 4.8+GHz Single-Core speed rather than efficiency/lower TDP as 105W is already incredible as is for a 12 Core/24 Thread chip.

 

What are your thoughts on possibilities for Ryzen 4000? What are you hoping for?

i want to see where the industry plays out, yes short term technology amd has intel beat on desktop performance but where is the overall desktop segment going?

 

im far more interested to see if the trends change, there seems to be a big shift going on for past few years away from desktop computers towards

       cloud services

       mobility

 

the newer generations they are glued to smartphones and tablets. I agree amd and intel discussion is interesting in terms of pc gaming but thats just one part of the market segment.

 

amd needs to diversify and im more interested to see what might happen there

 

see, https://www.counterpointresearch.com/amd-ready-shake-mobile-gpu-market/

 

 

[WallacEngineering]

23 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

i want to see where the industry plays out, yes short term technology amd has intel beat on desktop performance but where is the overall desktop segment going?

 

im far more interested to see if the trends change, there seems to be a big shift going on for past few years away from desktop computers towards

       cloud services

       mobility

 

the newer generations they are glued to smartphones and tablets. I agree amd and intel discussion is interesting in terms of pc gaming but thats just one part of the market segment.

 

amd needs to diversify and im more interested to see what might happen there

 

see, https://www.counterpointresearch.com/amd-ready-shake-mobile-gpu-market/

 

 

Well its true that more and more average everyday users are moving to laptops and more portable options, but the Desktop will always be the pinnacle of gaming performance, so they aren't going anywhere anytime soon, not even for consumers. The fact of the matter is that laptops don't even come close, although they are getting quite impressive. Then of course you have businesses and server machines, good luck ever making those fully mobile lol.

 

As far as Im aware, AMD is working on Zen2 mobile CPUs as we speak. Their APU options have always been an especially appealing option for mobile Laptop gaming on the cheap in exchange for some quality settings. Im really hoping the R5 3400G gets a mobile equivilant soon, that will really shake up the mobile market with Laptops priced under $1000 that can play AAA games at 1920x1080 with a mixture of medium to high settings all the while having enough cores to be a decent school machine or overall daily driver all at the same time.

[CPUguy101]

52 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

i want to see where the industry plays out, yes short term technology amd has intel beat on desktop performance but where is the overall desktop segment going?

 

im far more interested to see if the trends change, there seems to be a big shift going on for past few years away from desktop computers towards

       cloud services

       mobility

 

the newer generations they are glued to smartphones and tablets. I agree amd and intel discussion is interesting in terms of pc gaming but thats just one part of the market segment.

 

amd needs to diversify and im more interested to see what might happen there

 

see, https://www.counterpointresearch.com/amd-ready-shake-mobile-gpu-market/

 

 

"Experts" always say this but i remember when Ryzen came out and CEO of microcenter actually said they saw major sales at record rates of PC hardware. PC gaming is growing and continuing to grow last quarter Ubisoft said their biggest platform was the PC in terms of sales. 

 

When it comes to mobile parts Intel left that market they just sold their last bit of market they had besides laptops. Nothing is going anywhere and the smartphone market is starting to die down as people keep their 3 year old phones. 

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/micro-center-sees-surge-in-gaming-pc-sales/

 

https://screenrant.com/ubisoft-pc-gaming-profits-assassins-creed-division-2/

[TheKDub]

On 8/1/2019 at 6:27 PM, Turtle Rig said:

What is next is the i10 series of processors which will pown AMD single core performance and what not.  Their HEDT will pown 3900x and their CPU server line will crush AMD to pieces.  AMD just got out of the gates faster, but believe me Intel has something up their sleeves IMO and what not.

Except it'll also cost 3x as much lol

Also, it'd be i11, not i10. Intel isn't down with even numbers.

 

I think AMD has great potential, and Intel better watch out.

What's next for AMD? Probably Ryzen 4000 series. Maybe some new ThreadRipper chips too.

[PlayStation 2]

What massive success?

[CPUguy101]

20 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Well its true that more and more average everyday users are moving to laptops and more portable options, but the Desktop will always be the pinnacle of gaming performance, so they aren't going anywhere anytime soon, not even for consumers. The fact of the matter is that laptops don't even come close, although they are getting quite impressive. Then of course you have businesses and server machines, good luck ever making those fully mobile lol.

 

As far as Im aware, AMD is working on Zen2 mobile CPUs as we speak. Their APU options have always been an especially appealing option for mobile Laptop gaming on the cheap in exchange for some quality settings. Im really hoping the R5 3400G gets a mobile equivilant soon, that will really shake up the mobile market with Laptops priced under $1000 that can play AAA games at 1920x1080 with a mixture of medium to high settings all the while having enough cores to be a decent school machine or overall daily driver all at the same time.

What i find interesting is that Amd is one generation behind in terms of APU's meaning they probably don't even care that much about that market. Ryzen 3400g and 3200 are boring and not interesting at all without Zen 2 and Navi. 

 

Zen 3 will be made on 7nm+ with actual upgrades too beyond just adding +'s 

https://www.techradar.com/news/amds-zen-3-processors-to-be-built-in-new-way-that-improves-efficiency

 

My guess is Amd will probably just focus on IPC this time around and probably shrink Zen 2 a little to save cost

 

 

[bignaz]

If you are waiting for clock speeds your going to wait forever. Zen was never a high clock architecture. Zen + I see with optimizations the typical all core oc will be around 4.4 +/- 100mhz. 

 

 

Overclocking is fine. People are disappointed because of pbo.  I'm not disappointed in how the 3900x clocks. Given mine is pulling some great clocks and to date I haven't seen a better one on water even at what the good ones are pulling on water I see at 4.5 that's not bad. Hell most people can't even cool a 3900x at 4.4ghz. those 7nm die have really focused heat. Look at ice lake intels 10nm.  Smaller die more focused heat those clocks got lower. I know those are low power cpus but even compared to the ones they are replacing they are clocked lower. Still to early to say but I think when desktop 10nm hits were going to see 4.8ghz be the good range and 5ghz be the super amazing golden chip. 

 

 

 

Reguardless I wanna see what they do for bringing the ipc up even more. And if they go with ddr5 on zen2+. 

 

 

 

[tech.guru]

the one field that intel is seeming to hold to right now is the data center space.

intel owns 99% of the market share for the datacenters at the begging of the year.

 

see, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-24/intel-revenue-forecast-miss-as-data-center-sales-decelerate

 

amd, has showed higher growth and expects to capture 10% by next year,

see, https://wccftech.com/amd-epyc-server-cpu-7nm-market-share-2020-report/

 

this is another area not discussed much, but where cores are king. amd has also yet to release its 7nm processor for its EPYC line and be interesting to see the disruption amd does in this space.

 

 

 

 

[WallacEngineering]

1 hour ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

What massive success?

Um, have you been paying any attention to CPU sales at all? AMD took back 6% of the GLOABAL mainstream desktop CPU sales market on the day Ryzen 3000 launched. One day and AMD put a SIGNIFICANT dent into Intel's sales of desktop CPUs. How is that not success? lol

[WallacEngineering]

1 hour ago, SMBGUY said:

What i find interesting is that Amd is one generation behind in terms of APU's meaning they probably don't even care that much about that market. Ryzen 3400g and 3200 are boring and not interesting at all without Zen 2 and Navi. 

 

Zen 3 will be made on 7nm+ with actual upgrades too beyond just adding +'s 

https://www.techradar.com/news/amds-zen-3-processors-to-be-built-in-new-way-that-improves-efficiency

 

My guess is Amd will probably just focus on IPC this time around and probably shrink Zen 2 a little to save cost

 

 

Yea G-Series APUs from AMD are boring in general to us enthusiasts because it's the low-end segment of the market, so of course people like us will have no interest.

 

However, a student who wants a laptop that's perfect for school and some gaming in his/her free time for a very reasonable price? Boom, market = cornered by AMD APUs.

 

 

56 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

the one field that intel is seeming to hold to right now is the data center space.

intel owns 99% of the market share for the datacenters at the begging of the year.

 

see, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-24/intel-revenue-forecast-miss-as-data-center-sales-decelerate

 

amd, has showed higher growth and expects to capture 10% by next year,

see, https://wccftech.com/amd-epyc-server-cpu-7nm-market-share-2020-report/

 

this is another area not discussed much, but where cores are king. amd has also yet to release its 7nm processor for its EPYC line and be interesting to see the disruption amd does in this space.

 

 

 

 

100% agree, AMD really needs to win some of that market space back.