FaceBook to be Fined $5bn USD

[Totally Average Gameplay]

Facebook being fined again due to privacy issues?

[ARikozuM]

19 minutes ago, poochyena said:

It would affect every single person who owns fb shares, not just the heavy investors.

And how many people own shares in Facebook? Why should we care about them? Why should you care about my portfolio? You shouldn't. I should have seen this coming from a mile away and sold. Instead, they get a slap on the wrist and an increase to their share values. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

That would bankrupt the company, sending the stock market crashing, ruining the lives of tens of thousands of people.

Don't break the law, have cash reserve, business loan.

[poochyena]

29 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

And how many people own shares in Facebook?

well, friday's trade volume was 15,366,272 so I'd say a decent amount of people.

 

32 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Why should we care about them? Why should you care about my portfolio? You shouldn't. I should have seen this coming from a mile away and sold.

Can't you say the same thing about this story? Why should we care about their privacy? They should have seen Facebook's invasion of privacy coming from a mile away and quit.

 

24 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Don't break the law, have cash reserve, business loan.

What law did the employees and share holders break to also get punished?

[CarlBar]

24 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Don't break the law, have cash reserve, business loan.

 

Or simply have it be paid of over X years so it''s a long term negetive to their revenue stream.

[ARikozuM]

15 minutes ago, poochyena said:

well, friday's trade volume was 15,366,272 so I'd say a decent amount of people.

There are 300M people in the US... That's .2 shares per person. 85% of the stock market is owned by 10 or 15% of the population. No, it really isn't a decent amount of people. Most commoners aren't going to have any meaningful amount of shares. We're looking at heavy multi-millionaires owning a large enough number of shares. 

Quote

Can't you say the same thing about this story? Why should we care about their privacy? They should have seen Facebook's invasion of privacy coming from a mile away and quit.

The weak should be protected more than the strong. Facebook has all of that data and keeps it even after the Cambridge Analytica debacle. If they caused damage to our democracy, privacy, or data integrity, they should be held accountable.

 

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, poochyena said:

What law did the employees and share holders break to also get punished?

They aren't getting punished the company is, both employees and shareholders are always tied to the operating circumstances of the business, there is no avoiding that. And FYI 100 billion in long term debt is not that much, AMD has had around 2 billion for a long time and is now down to 1 billion. A debt like that won't cripple Facebook, AMD's revenue isn't even as big as this fine was and it's overall not that impactful to Facebook hence the problem with the fine.

 

You don't not fine a company just because it might hurt the employees or the shareholders, that's not how things work or should work. But hey if the shareholders don't like it they could exercise their share in the business to correct the problems that caused the fine in the first place.

 

Edit:

Dell went in to 45.9 billion dollars debt when they acquired EMC in case you might happen to think debts this high is totally unrealistic. 

[Arika]

11 minutes ago, leadeater said:

And FYI 100 billion in long term debt is not that much,

mistype?

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, Arika S said:

mistype?

Nope, 5 billion is a fraction of one year for Facebook so (5 * 4)  * 5 for only a few years profit for them. Looking at the quarterly reports Facebook's net income is anywhere between 2.5 billion to 5 billion per quarter. When I say not that much it's all relative, it would sink AMD but would not sink Facebook.

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, poochyena said:

has that maximum fine ever been given to someone with an average income for building a shed? Maximum fines are very very very very very very rarely given out. Its not a basis for how much people are actually fined.

 

It would affect every single person who owns fb shares, not just the heavy investors.

I see you are an expert in another countries council proceedings.

 

 

[Loote]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Nope, 5 billion is a fraction of one year for Facebook so (5 * 4)  * 5 for only a few years profit for them. Looking at the quarterly reports Facebook's net income is anywhere between 2.5 billion to 5 billion per quarter. When I say not that much it's all relative, it would sink AMD but would not sink Facebook.

This is all pondering, but I hope after a fine that big Facebook would sink, not because in the current state it couldn't handle it, but because in face of the fine the users, stock owners and business associates would be much less inclined to use it. The income would shrink and make them unable to pay it off.

 

I don't like Facebook and the influence it has on civilisation, I am curious what would become the next biggest thing if it were gone.

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I see you are an expert in another countries council proceedings.

If it's anything like here then minimum fine is only but a dream for building code and consent violations.

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, Loote said:

I don't like Facebook and the influence it has on civilisation, I am curious what would become the next biggest thing if it were gone.

myspace makes a come back, the world is safe.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

If it's anything like here then minimum fine is only but a dream for building code and consent violations.

The average fine for small incursions is 15K to 25K and high chance of criminal record.  And even after the fact there are more costs because you have to pullk it down or pay to have it retro inspected and approved (big dollars).  We even have cases where people have been evicted from newly bought property and foced to do the retro work or tear down because of illegal works the previous owner has done.

 

It really stinks some times.  especially when the innocent get caught up in it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-04/melbourne-man-buys-home-with-illegal-structures/10178320

 

 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, mr moose said:

myspace makes a come back, the world is safe.

Plot-Twist= Tik Tok becomes the dominant social media platform. 

[RejZoR]

37 minutes ago, Loote said:

This is all pondering, but I hope after a fine that big Facebook would sink, not because in the current state it couldn't handle it, but because in face of the fine the users, stock owners and business associates would be much less inclined to use it. The income would shrink and make them unable to pay it off.

 

I don't like Facebook and the influence it has on civilisation, I am curious what would become the next biggest thing if it were gone.

Hopefully nothing and instant messaging apps like Signal become a standard. No one needs stupid public fake bragging. If you need to communicate with someone, IM is the way. It has been for ages. Hell, SMS is the oldest form of IM and it's still around doing service despite everyone saying how useless it is (mainly because it has no retarded emojis lol).

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Hopefully nothing and instant messaging apps like Signal become a standard. No one needs stupid public fake bragging. If you need to communicate with someone, IM is the way. It has been for ages. Hell, SMS is the oldest form of IM and it's still around doing service despite everyone saying how useless it is (mainly because it has no retarded emojis lol).

FaceBook has been extremely beneficial in my education and work. Communication in education is the most important thing. 

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, floofer said:

FaceBook has been extremely beneficial in my education and work. Communication in education is the most important thing. 

Use Moodle or a different LMS instead? Educators using Facebook is actually highly annoying and problematic for IT administration and security. It's even more annoying when the school or institution has Moodle so there is no reason to use Facebook then someone has a bright idea about using it, then someone else has a bright idea about adding a Facebook feed in to the login welcome hta page when users login. Then some smart student posts obscene images to the page that is displayed to everyone when they login through that Facebook feed.

 

Facebook, an education service better serviced through other means that already exist.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Use Moodle or a different LMS instead? Educators using Facebook is actually highly annoying and problematic for IT administration and security. It's even more annoying when the school or institution has Moodle so there is no reason to use Facebook then someone has a bright idea about using it, then someone else has a bright idea about adding a Facebook feed in to the login welcome hta page when users login. Then some smart student posts obscene images to the page that is displayed to everyone when they login through that Facebook feed.

 

Facebook, an education service better serviced through other means that already exist.

We have blackboard, but communication between students happens on a fb group. There’s no reason to have one, but it’s far more approachable to ask questions and share notes, and illegal copies of the textbook. We’re told to make the group for this.

 

because our lecturer is not on there, we just email them. Blackboard is pretty much only used for unofficial grades and uploading slides and coursework. It’s essential, but not the main method of communication. No one uses the forum function. 

[leadeater]

30 minutes ago, floofer said:

We have blackboard, but communication between students happens on a fb group. There’s no reason to have one, but it’s far more approachable to ask questions and share notes, and illegal copies of the textbook. We’re told to make the group for this.

 

because our lecturer is not on there, we just email them. Blackboard is pretty much only used for unofficial grades and uploading slides and coursework. It’s essential, but not the main method of communication. No one uses the forum function. 

Last time I used Blackboard it was a super, super old version that was in legacy access because of the move to Moodle. Down side to Moodle is while it's free it's very much not out of the box ready to use, great case of no such thing as free.

 

All the communication can happen on Moodle though, it's pretty good at that. It's got Forum, Chat, Group Chat, Groups etc all built in so really the only reason to use Facebook is because {example} person already knows how to use it so it seems like the easiest option, without considering if it's the best option.

 

To be fair we have a dedicated Moodle development team and support something like 18,000 distance students so I'd say our Moodle is likely better than average, though from what I've seen most tertiary institutions Moodle setups are very good.

 

Sub groups of students going off platform and using a Facebook group is fine though, Facebook shouldn't be introduced as a course platform tool though.

 

From my perspective from working in IT and having to actually deal with Facebook, as well as Facebook being used as an education tool I am strongly opposed to it being used in a official capacity. Too many problems, too little control. If you have ever been in the middle of one section of senior management pushing for it to be blocked completely because of an incident and another section of senior management pushing for access to stay because they or people that report to them use it so would be greatly impacted is not fun. So then you have to try and work some IT magic to block only Facebook chat, or only allow access to certain pages which both are really hard to achieve (Chat is much easier to block last few years though).

[Guest]

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

Last time I used Blackboard it was a super, super old version that was in legacy access because of the move to Moodle. Down side to Moodle is while it's free it's very much not out of the box ready to use, great case of no such thing as free.

 

All the communication can happen on Moodle though, it's pretty good at that. It's got Forum, Chat, Group Chat, Groups etc all built in so really the only reason to use Facebook is because {example} person already knows how to use it so it seems like the easiest option, without considering if it's the best option.

 

To be fair we have a dedicated Moodle development team and support something like 18,000 distance students so I'd say our Moodle is likely better than average, though from what I've seen most tertiary institutions Moodle setups are very good.

 

Sub groups of students going off platform and using a Facebook group is fine though, Facebook shouldn't be introduced as a course platform tool though.

 

From my perspective from working in IT and having to actually deal with Facebook, as well as Facebook being used as an education tool I am strongly opposed to it being used in a official capacity. Too many problems, too little control. If you have ever been in the middle of one section of senior management pushing for it to be blocked completely because of an incident and another section of senior management pushing for access to stay because they or people that report to them use it so would be greatly impacted is not fun. So then you have to try and work some IT magic to block only Facebook chat, or only allow access to certain pages which both are really hard to achieve (Chat is much easier to block last few years though).

Blackboard is OK, it has those forum features to ask questions, and I suppose is good for what it does. FaceBook is just far better a communication and people feel like its less official and more approachable. The way it works is the lecturer tells the class rep (a nominated student) to create a group and all the students join with the FB link. If there are any questions for the class rep, they are usually emailed or asked on the FB page. There are usually no incidences, but the FB page is kept separate from BB. To be fair though, its the students that make the FB page great. 

 

Maybe Moodle would be better, but I think I've only seen it at SIT, not Otago or VUW. Its hard to appreciate something better if you've ever used it - or maybe BB is more for university and Moodle is for schools etc. 

[Tsuki]

16 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

It's funny seeing completely speculative comments like this. You have no idea how Facebook operates (and neither do I), so stop pretending based on tropes.

 

15 hours ago, poochyena said:

you are literally just making stuff up.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-overseas-profits/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-giants-are-in-no-rush-to-spend-overseas-cash-1517835600

 

bloomberg 2017 report and wall street journal 2018, showing they have 32 billion in offshore cash.  please tell me again how im making this up?   

every major corporation does this. it isnt new and it shouldnt come as a shock to anybody

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, Tsuki said:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-overseas-profits/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-giants-are-in-no-rush-to-spend-overseas-cash-1517835600

 

bloomberg 2017 report and wall street journal 2018, showing they have 32 billion in offshore cash.  please tell me again how im making this up?   

every major corporation does this. it isnt new and it shouldnt come as a shock to anybody

Apparently, it's $2.1T collectively. 

 

https://howmuch.net/articles/tax-havens

[Tsuki]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

Apparently, it's $2.1T collectively. 

 

https://howmuch.net/articles/tax-havens

i believe it.  these companies have so much money offshore, they are making more on untaxed interest, than they pay out to fines each year. a small fine like this is trivial and doesnt even thin their wallet a little. especially when they end up paying the fines over several years.  

anybody who thinks this is some great victory, is delusional 

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, floofer said:

maybe BB is more for university and Moodle is for schools etc. 

A lot of the universities use Moodle, including where I work. I'm not sure there's like any set standard but I have seen both, just not BB in schools because money heh.