Toto, I don't think we're in China anymore - US companies adopting social credit score system

thedude4bides · June 22, 2019

17 minutes ago, leadeater said:

No they actually can't, but I mean should my country apologize to yours for having an effective consumer protection agency that looks in to these issues and rectifies them?

Well to correct that first bit, yes they can if there is nothing to prevent what is actually anti-consumer practices.

Incorrect, my friend. They can and do this quite regularly. They have teams of people, focus groups, 3rd party consultants, and all sorts of money being thrown at finding the value added services that will differentiate their company from the rest of the pack.

And, no, your country has no reason to apologize for being a great example. However, now that you clued me in to this, it does make a little more sense as to why my counterparts below the equator in that half of the world often pay higher prices than over here. I believe someone in here at some point did say “nothing is free”.

Edit- I see you did acknowledge the first point... didn’t pick up on that right away

mr moose · June 22, 2019

1 hour ago, thedude4bides said:

I’ve stated my points and backed them up with examples or logical arguments.

The sad part is you probably genuinely believe that.

thedude4bides · June 22, 2019

Just now, mr moose said:

The sad part is you probably genuinely believe that.

Whole lotta sadness in here... I know

leadeater · June 22, 2019

12 minutes ago, thedude4bides said:

However, now that you clued me in to this, it does make a little more sense as to why my counterparts below the equator in that half of the world often pay higher prices than over here.

Actually no we do not, the only extra cost we have to pay is shipping because we are half a world away, but then again we don't have that many US manufactured products. Prices seem higher here because our currency is lower value and tax is included in prices. If you can get something without having to pay tax on that sale sure you can get it cheaper in that case, no idea how easy or common that is for you. Here it's not possible to not pay GST.

12 minutes ago, thedude4bides said:

Incorrect, my friend. They can and do this quite regularly. They have teams of people, focus groups, 3rd party consultants, and all sorts of money being thrown at finding the value added services that will differentiate their company from the rest of the pack.

Doesn't mean these 'value added' services are not anti-consumer. It's anti consumer to discriminate on method of payment, requiring people with bad credit to pay more so you are increasing the cost to those that are in debt or have bad credit making their financial situation worse. That is just one of the reasons it's not allowed here, it's not just my opinion either this was a conclusion by our Commerce Commission based on years of evidence across multiple countries to determine if they are harmful to consumers.

You can like the benefits you get from such things but that doesn't make them not anti-consumer. Consumer protection agencies have to look at the wider impact and make decisions on those not on any one individual's situation.

For example here were are just about the change the law so that energy companies are not allowed to offer prompt payment discounts because as it turns out, after a lot of research, these are a poor tax. This does not mean we will now pay more this means they must only charge the previous prompt payment rates as standard, everyone wins and there are no losers.

thedude4bides · June 22, 2019

12 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Actually no we do not, the only extra cost we have to pay is shipping because we are half a world away, but then again we don't have that many US manufactured products. Prices seem higher here because our currency is lower value and tax is included in prices. If you can get something without having to pay tax on that sale sure you can get it cheaper in that case, no idea how easy or common that is for you. Here it's not possible to not pay GST.

Doesn't mean these 'value added' services are not anti-consumer. It's anti consumer to discriminate on method of payment, requiring people with bad credit to pay more so you are increasing the cost to those that are in debt or have bad credit making their financial situation worse. That is just one of the reasons it's not allowed here, it's not just my opinion either this was a conclusion by our Commerce Commission based on years of evidence across multiple countries to determine if they are harmful to consumers.

You can like the benefits you get from such things but that doesn't make them not anti-consumer. Consumer protection agencies have to look at the wider impact and make decisions on those not on any one individual's situation.

For example here were are just about the change the law so that energy companies are not allowed to offer prompt payment discounts because as it turns out, after a lot of research, these are a poor tax. This does not mean we will now pay more this means they must only charge the previous prompt payment rates as standard, everyone wins and there are no losers.

While you are right about all that, it is a whole separate topic. Bottom line is that since the “anti-consumer” practice of standard 90 day or 1 year warrantees are the status quo here, CC companies have filled a void and I’m glad they did.

thedude4bides · June 22, 2019

By the way, @leadeater, have you been keeping up headlines in the US? If so, you’ll know that the furthest thing from the front page headlines is anti-consumer refroms

its pretty wild over here in terms of what is on the collective consciousness of the nation at the moment

leadeater · June 22, 2019

Just now, thedude4bides said:

While you are right about all that, it is a while separate topic. Bottom line is that since the “anti-consumer” practice of standard 90 day or 1 year warrantees is the status quo here, CC companies have filled a void and I’m glad they did.

True, it's not like I'm saying that this should be prevented before warranties themselves are sorted out, that would be a very detrimental thing to do. This goes for basically every pain point I could give about credit card companies and how credit is treated, making any changes to these situations is very complex and high impact. Rolling in any one change could be detrimental to consumers even if it was done with the intent to benefit, rolling in a huge amount could be worse or better.

Like the proverb "If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it", problem is I do believe it is broken but I don't have a plan to fix it. I'm also aware this is also one of the worst things to be, all problems and no solutions. Though in the realistic sense there is no way that I could ever actually give out solutions and implementation plans on an country's economic policies, we have experts for that, but it doesn't nor should it stop anyone from commenting on it.

thedude4bides · June 22, 2019

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

True, it's not like I'm saying that this should be prevented before warranties themselves are sorted out, that would be a very detrimental thing to do. This goes for basically every pain point I could give about credit card companies and how credit is treated, making any changes to these situations is very complex and high impact. Rolling in any one change could be detrimental to consumers even if it was done with the intent to benefit, rolling in a huge amount could be worse or better.

Like the proverb "If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it", problem is I do believe it is broken but I don't have a plan to fix it. I'm also aware this is also one of the worst things to be, all problems and no solutions. Though in the realistic sense there is no way that I could ever actually give out solutions and implementation plans on an country's economic policies, we have experts for that, but it doesn't nor should it stop anyone from commenting on it.

Bringing this full circle, it is unclear to me whether or not social credit will ultimately be anti-consumer or not?

For example, will my perfect credit come down a notch or two because I posted a video of myself doing something silly or risky online? Have certain opinions? Or buy certain things? Will there be any way to rectify your social credit score as there is with the current system?

Or will it be a means to open up credit to those that otherwise look bad on paper?

Both?

Time will tell, I suppose. But right now, the idea of it doesn’t sit well with me.